I really enjoyed tonight's episode. I think Jenna-Louise Coleman will reinvigorate the show for me as I'm loving her already. Everyone was wonderful tonight and I haven't enjoyed an episode this much since Angels of Manhattan (which admittedly was the last episode, but still).
I thought it was the televisual equivalent of excrement. Just awful. It was inane, insipid, incoherent, smug and hugely irritating. I wasn't expecting much but we seem a long way from such great episodes as The Eleventh Hour.
Just posting on the Snowmen. I hope i am excused as i only read 10 pages of the thread so maybe my points arent new. These are just my initial thoughts based on the one showing with my family there.
Liked the title sequence- seems to have more energy and motion. I think there was a little nod to the tunnel of Tom Bakers time which tickled me.
I must admit I liked the story but there were some jarring moments for me. The good points were the tone was much dark.The children were nice enough and less sacharine then last year. It looked lovely all the way through and I liked the imaginative use of the staircase to the Tardis. Clara is a much more likeable character than the tiresome sulky Amy.Matt and Jenna are going to be an awesome team.
I may have had too much Baileys but I didnt understand why the snowmen were chasing after the ice or the phantom governess. Were there two seperate alien entities on Earth ? I do like Clara but couldnt work out is she a barmaid pretending to be a governess? I liked her curiouslity but her forwardness suggests she wasnt really a Victorian and something else. I must admit that i missed the last couple of minutes ( trifle incident) but know she died. Not quite sure what the Oswin/ Oswald thing is all about
I did laugh out loud as the maid screamed after "Good evening. I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife.". I found the constant putdowns by the Doctor to Strax irritating. I want to also say but realise i will probably get shot down for this but it felt "insulting" in the context I cant imagine the 4th Doctor ever making such ongoing juvenile insults to a Sontaren.
I thought that Richard E Grant and Tom Wards characters were very one dimensional and poorly served for the majority of the time but i sippose 42 minutes doesnt give you a lot of time to flesh them out.I found the script was variable to my taste.The dialogue was way too modern to be really Victorian and I much prefer The Unquiet Dead as a character piece.It is such a shame though,Such talent there and the script wants to poke fun at Sherlock Holmes ( ha Ha!)and Strax.
I've noticed that Moffat's stylistic motif is for the dialogue to be witty and clever and create mysteries but not necassarily have much subtley to showing the inner workings of secondary characters. We got some understanding at the end about Dr Simeon but its times like this I miss the Classic 4 and 6 parters for the time to develop characters.
I did enjoy the story, mainly for the excellent Matt and Jenna, even if the Snowmen werent there enough and am intrigued on the mystery about Clara so will vote good, Worth another watch tomorrow but not yet sure I would add it to my DVD collection.
A visitor - who does not usually watch Dr Who - asked me if it was the start of a new series.
Having thought more about the programme, I thought that the Doctor was unnecessarily sarcastic to the Sontaran who deserved more respect. Also, I think the time has come to change the actor portraying The Doctor.
One of the better Christmas episodes for me. It was very good overall but slightly short of excellent. Much dialogue to enjoy, particularly Strax and his interactions with the Doctor.
I felt the episode needed a bit more Vastra and Jenny and substantially more Richard E. Grant as I felt he was underused - would have liked to see him chewing up the scenery really. His character just felt underdeveloped for me. As for the underuse of the snowmen - I think CGI has it limitations and although the snarling snowmen looked menacing having them gliding along the snow would not have looked good at all.
Did enjoy Clara and JLC's performance and loved the plot device of her dying. Maybe it should have been made clearer that everyone's emotions switching to sadness from fear broke the telepathic link to the snowmen.
I think there has to be something slightly different or special about the companions for the Doctor to take them with him and Clara being "impossible" works for me! I like her smartness and determination a lot and look forward to seeing more of her.
I do wonder who brought Strax back to life - someone at Demon's Run or someone who got there after it all finished?
Did enjoy the new titles and the remodelled Tardis interior will grow on me I'm sure. The trailer looks promising too and can't wait to see if Neil Gaiman makes the Cybermen menacing again!
Sums up what I thought about Clara, she's just too...'feisty' unfazed, etc. Yes there's a mystery about her but it would have been nice if she'd just been a 'normal' Victorian girl caught up in the action and ending up travelling with the Doctor. Oh well, we'll see.
I........
I hoped for that too. I suppose we have had Victoria so they coudnt do the same thing again.
It's Moffat again playing with one of his favourite themes of major emphasis on the companion.
I hoped for that too. I suppose we have had Victoria so they coudnt do the same thing again. It's Moffat again playing with one of his favourite themes of major emphasis on the companion.
On this occasion the Intelligence used mechanical Yetis (pictured, right) and these furry but fearsome robots were deployed again when it invaded Earth decades later. The Doctor was there to defeat them again but this time the front-line was the **** London Underground ****. In the intervening period the Intelligence had apparently failed to perfect corporeal form and the Doctor said the best way to describe it was ‘a sort of formless, shapeless thing floating about in space like a cloud of mist, only with a mind and will’.
The Web of Fear also featured the first appearance of The Brigadier but he was just a Colonel at that time
Was ok - little too much talking and not enough action, for me anyway.
I also think they need a change of scene. Why is the Christmas special
a) always on earth
b) nearly always based in the 'Victorian age' period.
Really! Not to have a moan but 'nearly always in the Victorian age period? It's 2 out of 7/8 by my count.
1) Christmas Invasion - Modern Day Earth
2) Runaway Bride - Modern Day Earth
3) Voyage of The Damned - On a Spaceship/Modern Day Earth
4) The Next Doctor - Victorian Era Earth
4 & 5) End Of Time - Modern Day Earth
6) Christmas Carol - Alien Planet
7) TDTW&TW - 1940's Era/Alien Planet
8) The Snowmen - Victorian Era Earth.
As far as earth goes, it is our holiday. It makes sense for it to be on earth tbh.:)
As an irregular viewer of DW I gave it 3.5 out of 10. It could have been much better. The references to other in-story goings on were not needed in a Christmas episode which should almost stand alone. The snowmen were a damp squib - they did not really do much at all. Too much rushing about and all that was missing was some 'I'll explain later's.
The filming was good but the end result was a mish-mash and not a strong story.
I think he returned during the second half of Season 5. In 1967.
Yep. Original appearance in The Abominable Snowmen in 1967. Returned in The Web of Fear in 1868. Both season 5.
The Web of Fear (apparently) featured an attack via the London Underground. Hence the Doctor carrying the memory worm in a biscuit tin from that time - a little nod to the originals.
I enjoyed it on the whole. It was just OK for me - brilliant in parts, annoying in others - but a big improvement on last year.
It was all a bit Mary Poppins versus the Snow Globe, wasn't it? (Thankfully without Dick van Dyke's Cockney accent.)
I did like Clara's dynamic with the Doctor - yes, it's a variation on the feisty companion theme we've seen repeatedly in new-Who, but the chemistry between the two is excellent. There were some fantastic lines too - "it's smaller on the outside" being the most obvious one - but it felt to me like Moffat crammed in too many jokes at the expense of fleshing out a pretty sketchy plot.
And, like last year, I didn't really feel any sense of jeopardy until the very end. It was hard to take Magneto in a giant snow globe too seriously, to be honest.
I really don't like the new title sequence though. There's just too much happening and it's a bit of a visual mess to me. Although I did like the old-Who throwback of having the Doctor's face appear briefly. I'm an old fogey, me.
A few thoughts and some commentary on some of the more obvious external references in my review - link below:
Will post a review when i rewatch tomorrow morning...been a beautiful Christmas day here...had it on in the background really with low volume as we sat around But damn it drew you in and my grandad who is always critical of it every year (i could understand previous years bar Christmas Carol) but he kept praising what he saw ....but tbh he only likes to have the odd dig anyhow
But got the story and it was just so visually delicious, Clara made a sublime re-debut so to speak and Matt was sublime as always...plus the rest of the companions were electric and Richard was just stellar!
10/10 from me already....but as i say will give an overall opinion tomorrow morning but already just....all round kudos!
After last year I really was hoping and thank goodness the hr did zoom.
the only Gripe I have *nothing linked with the ratings personal choice I didnt like the 5.15 startime.
I think SCD should have taken that spot its hogged enough primetime these past few months.
I really thought I was going to miss Amy and Rory But that didnt happen I think mostly in part to the people who were helping the Doctor.It was very silly but I loved when the Maid started screaming at all the Visitors.
Over the moon about the Tardis.I really didnt like the revamped console after the 11th hour it just seemed like a very strange selection of basically Junk.I thought they covered the revamp well by basically making out he's been his own for a very long time and his General mood really put that over.
I really truly enjoyed that episode. By no means perfect, but very very good. Will have to rewatch it as due to the generally Christmas chit chat that goes on around the house I missed out on what happened in a couple of scenes. But that aside I really enjoyed it, will look forward to seeing more of JLC, thought she was fantastic and, as has already been said, her chemistry with Matt Smith was brilliant. You almost get the feeling that Clara is close to being The Doctor's equal in comparison to some previous companions.
I'm not sure how to vote for this one, which is unusual for me. The plot aside from the stuff to do with Clara was complete rubbish, some random snow globe and an ice woman is contrived even for Christmas TV. And Strax was just getting annoying, though Vastra and Jenny were as great as ever.
But I can (almost) forgive that rubbish because of the amount of focus on Clara, and the intriguing set-up for the rest of the series. I thought Jenna was brilliant, completely different dynamic to when the Doctor first met Amy, but yet similarly feisty, which seems to work very well with Matt's Doctor. He was great too, especially when he made the connection between Oswin and Clara.
Then again, there were also other things I didn't like - the new titles, new TARDIS interior and the spiral staircase. And I'm not sure whether to like or dislike the fact that the Doctor has spent so much time sulking since Amy left....or the lack of mention of her (besides an incidental reference from Clara), Rory or River....
Most of that is just personal preference though, on the whole it was an episode I enjoyed for Matt and Jenna and the companion-related plot, not for the saving the world bit of it.
So I think it evens out at an 'ok, could have been better'.
At least it was a vast improvement on last year's drivel, and an intelligent episode in terms of character hints rather than just a re-hash of a familiar Christmas story.
It's Moffat again playing with one of his favourite themes of major emphasis on the companion.
Which is fine by me, especially when it's a Doctor and companion who work so well together, as Matt and Jenna are doing already (and as Matt and Karen did so wonderfully)
Best christmas episode in a long while. Makes perfect sense to have a special that links into the series more considering we are only getting 8 episodes next year.
Snowman were scary, image if it snowed this year and there was snowmen in the gardens across the UK!! But they weren't the main threat as the GI was, so sidelined a bit like the daleks are in a Davros story. Richard E. Grant again was just a tool in the master plan.
Love the doctor's detective 'crew' (if only he name them!!) doubt we seen the last of them!
As for Clara / Oswin I really hope they keep the secret under wraps I don't want spoilers, but I think we could have the best companion of NuWho yet! Give the doctor an impossible person he is bound to follow them across time and space! His someone behind this, why does he trust her so much, the key after 30 mins!
after some disappointments in the last couple of series i cant wait for the next one! Roll on April 2013!!!!!!!
Comments
Just posting on the Snowmen. I hope i am excused as i only read 10 pages of the thread so maybe my points arent new. These are just my initial thoughts based on the one showing with my family there.
Liked the title sequence- seems to have more energy and motion. I think there was a little nod to the tunnel of Tom Bakers time which tickled me.
I must admit I liked the story but there were some jarring moments for me. The good points were the tone was much dark.The children were nice enough and less sacharine then last year. It looked lovely all the way through and I liked the imaginative use of the staircase to the Tardis. Clara is a much more likeable character than the tiresome sulky Amy.Matt and Jenna are going to be an awesome team.
I may have had too much Baileys but I didnt understand why the snowmen were chasing after the ice or the phantom governess. Were there two seperate alien entities on Earth ? I do like Clara but couldnt work out is she a barmaid pretending to be a governess? I liked her curiouslity but her forwardness suggests she wasnt really a Victorian and something else. I must admit that i missed the last couple of minutes ( trifle incident) but know she died. Not quite sure what the Oswin/ Oswald thing is all about
I did laugh out loud as the maid screamed after "Good evening. I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife.". I found the constant putdowns by the Doctor to Strax irritating. I want to also say but realise i will probably get shot down for this but it felt "insulting" in the context I cant imagine the 4th Doctor ever making such ongoing juvenile insults to a Sontaren.
I thought that Richard E Grant and Tom Wards characters were very one dimensional and poorly served for the majority of the time but i sippose 42 minutes doesnt give you a lot of time to flesh them out.I found the script was variable to my taste.The dialogue was way too modern to be really Victorian and I much prefer The Unquiet Dead as a character piece.It is such a shame though,Such talent there and the script wants to poke fun at Sherlock Holmes ( ha Ha!)and Strax.
I've noticed that Moffat's stylistic motif is for the dialogue to be witty and clever and create mysteries but not necassarily have much subtley to showing the inner workings of secondary characters. We got some understanding at the end about Dr Simeon but its times like this I miss the Classic 4 and 6 parters for the time to develop characters.
I did enjoy the story, mainly for the excellent Matt and Jenna, even if the Snowmen werent there enough and am intrigued on the mystery about Clara so will vote good, Worth another watch tomorrow but not yet sure I would add it to my DVD collection.
Having thought more about the programme, I thought that the Doctor was unnecessarily sarcastic to the Sontaran who deserved more respect. Also, I think the time has come to change the actor portraying The Doctor.
Have we had a decent Sci-Fi show since Battlestar Galactica finished?
I felt the episode needed a bit more Vastra and Jenny and substantially more Richard E. Grant as I felt he was underused - would have liked to see him chewing up the scenery really. His character just felt underdeveloped for me. As for the underuse of the snowmen - I think CGI has it limitations and although the snarling snowmen looked menacing having them gliding along the snow would not have looked good at all.
Did enjoy Clara and JLC's performance and loved the plot device of her dying. Maybe it should have been made clearer that everyone's emotions switching to sadness from fear broke the telepathic link to the snowmen.
I think there has to be something slightly different or special about the companions for the Doctor to take them with him and Clara being "impossible" works for me! I like her smartness and determination a lot and look forward to seeing more of her.
I do wonder who brought Strax back to life - someone at Demon's Run or someone who got there after it all finished?
Did enjoy the new titles and the remodelled Tardis interior will grow on me I'm sure. The trailer looks promising too and can't wait to see if Neil Gaiman makes the Cybermen menacing again!
I hoped for that too. I suppose we have had Victoria so they coudnt do the same thing again.
It's Moffat again playing with one of his favourite themes of major emphasis on the companion.
True; I should like more emphasis on the Doctor.
The Web of Fear also featured the first appearance of The Brigadier but he was just a Colonel at that time
Why do you keep watching it then??
I also think they need a change of scene. Why is the Christmas special
a) always on earth
b) nearly always based in the 'Victorian age' period.
A Christmas Carol wasn't set on Earth
Of the 7 Christmas special only 2 have been set in the Victorian period; The Next Doctor and The Snowmen
Really! Not to have a moan but 'nearly always in the Victorian age period? It's 2 out of 7/8 by my count.
1) Christmas Invasion - Modern Day Earth
2) Runaway Bride - Modern Day Earth
3) Voyage of The Damned - On a Spaceship/Modern Day Earth
4) The Next Doctor - Victorian Era Earth
4 & 5) End Of Time - Modern Day Earth
6) Christmas Carol - Alien Planet
7) TDTW&TW - 1940's Era/Alien Planet
8) The Snowmen - Victorian Era Earth.
As far as earth goes, it is our holiday. It makes sense for it to be on earth tbh.:)
The filming was good but the end result was a mish-mash and not a strong story.
Not my choice.
But the person who did want to watch it quickly lost interest, that's one thing RTD had over Moffat, not boring the children.
I think he returned during the second half of Season 5. In 1967.
...and switches between a clockwise spiral and an anti-clockwise spiral.
The Web of Fear (apparently) featured an attack via the London Underground. Hence the Doctor carrying the memory worm in a biscuit tin from that time - a little nod to the originals.
Picky, picky, picky!!!
You know what I meant
It was all a bit Mary Poppins versus the Snow Globe, wasn't it? (Thankfully without Dick van Dyke's Cockney accent.)
I did like Clara's dynamic with the Doctor - yes, it's a variation on the feisty companion theme we've seen repeatedly in new-Who, but the chemistry between the two is excellent. There were some fantastic lines too - "it's smaller on the outside" being the most obvious one - but it felt to me like Moffat crammed in too many jokes at the expense of fleshing out a pretty sketchy plot.
And, like last year, I didn't really feel any sense of jeopardy until the very end. It was hard to take Magneto in a giant snow globe too seriously, to be honest.
I really don't like the new title sequence though. There's just too much happening and it's a bit of a visual mess to me. Although I did like the old-Who throwback of having the Doctor's face appear briefly. I'm an old fogey, me.
A few thoughts and some commentary on some of the more obvious external references in my review - link below:
http://slouchingtowardsthatcham.com/2012/12/25/doctor-who-christmas-special-the-snowmen/
Will post a review when i rewatch tomorrow morning...been a beautiful Christmas day here...had it on in the background really with low volume as we sat around
But got the story and it was just so visually delicious, Clara made a sublime re-debut so to speak and Matt was sublime as always...plus the rest of the companions were electric and Richard was just stellar!
10/10 from me already....but as i say will give an overall opinion tomorrow morning but already just....all round kudos!
the only Gripe I have *nothing linked with the ratings personal choice I didnt like the 5.15 startime.
I think SCD should have taken that spot its hogged enough primetime these past few months.
I really thought I was going to miss Amy and Rory But that didnt happen I think mostly in part to the people who were helping the Doctor.It was very silly but I loved when the Maid started screaming at all the Visitors.
Over the moon about the Tardis.I really didnt like the revamped console after the 11th hour it just seemed like a very strange selection of basically Junk.I thought they covered the revamp well by basically making out he's been his own for a very long time and his General mood really put that over.
But I can (almost) forgive that rubbish because of the amount of focus on Clara, and the intriguing set-up for the rest of the series. I thought Jenna was brilliant, completely different dynamic to when the Doctor first met Amy, but yet similarly feisty, which seems to work very well with Matt's Doctor. He was great too, especially when he made the connection between Oswin and Clara.
Then again, there were also other things I didn't like - the new titles, new TARDIS interior and the spiral staircase. And I'm not sure whether to like or dislike the fact that the Doctor has spent so much time sulking since Amy left....or the lack of mention of her (besides an incidental reference from Clara), Rory or River....
Most of that is just personal preference though, on the whole it was an episode I enjoyed for Matt and Jenna and the companion-related plot, not for the saving the world bit of it.
So I think it evens out at an 'ok, could have been better'.
At least it was a vast improvement on last year's drivel, and an intelligent episode in terms of character hints rather than just a re-hash of a familiar Christmas story.
Which is fine by me, especially when it's a Doctor and companion who work so well together, as Matt and Jenna are doing already (and as Matt and Karen did so wonderfully)
Snowman were scary, image if it snowed this year and there was snowmen in the gardens across the UK!! But they weren't the main threat as the GI was, so sidelined a bit like the daleks are in a Davros story. Richard E. Grant again was just a tool in the master plan.
Love the doctor's detective 'crew' (if only he name them!!) doubt we seen the last of them!
As for Clara / Oswin I really hope they keep the secret under wraps I don't want spoilers, but I think we could have the best companion of NuWho yet! Give the doctor an impossible person he is bound to follow them across time and space! His someone behind this, why does he trust her so much, the key after 30 mins!
after some disappointments in the last couple of series i cant wait for the next one! Roll on April 2013!!!!!!!