I guess the final ep will struggle to get to 8m, but that's an impressive figure even if sandwiched between two 13m+ rated editions of SCD.
Spotted this in the Sunday Mirror (not my copy - obviously!!); confirms what I think we knew already - and that BBC1 is massively unlucky at getting shows with a decent shelf life and acceptable gap between series.
It's not down to Tom Ellis of course, who is letting everyone know of his availability. It's up to Miranda Hart, and if her third series can manage to hold on to 10m viewers a show, becoming one of the biggest and most popular series on telly, then I would hope BBC bosses do more than twist her arm to write a fourth and not just revert to "maybe the odd special in the future".
Could it be Mr Ellis who is leaving, not Miranda ? Mind you the Mirror has a good track record on these sort of stories - it recently ran a sycophantic article praising the BBC for making Downton Abbey:eek:
It starts next Saturday at 6.30. Personally, I don't think it will do very well. Didn't BBC One try this hidden camera thing before a couple of years ago on early Saturday evenings? It pretty much sunk without a trace.
Well, there have been umpteen hidden camera shows on BBC1 in the past decade or so. Off the top of my head I can think of The Hidden Camera Show with Ainsley Harriott from 1999, which was pretty Beadle-esque, Renmotely Funny with Eammon Holmes from 2002 (a hostage-to-fortune title, that, where punters made suggestions to celebrities through an earpiece) and Spy TV with Ian Wright in 2004 which ended up being dumped in a weeknight slot. There are probably more. It's a format the broadcasters keep coming back to.
Looking at the trailer, Hammond's set looks very similar to the set Bob Monkhouse had in the early days of Candid Camera, if you ever see clips of that. It'll probably be an adequate timewaster but I don't suppose it'll be a monster hit.
I agree. Total Wipeout wasn't great but it was one of those "so bad it's good" shows that even my dad (difficult to please) used to laugh at.
My guess is that the new BBC One attempts at Saturday early evening will flop. The animal thing has been done before (Walk on the Wild Side... didn't set the ratings alight), Secret Service is Beadle's About with Richard Hammond (you either love him or you hate him... I don't consider Hammond a big draw) and if Britain's Brightest does well, I will be surprised. Wasn't there a similar search for the most intelligent Briton in the form of a National Lottery quiz a few years back with Jamie Theakston? The grand prize was £100,000 - after weeks and weeks of rounds. It absolutely flopped because it was so dull. (Ironic that In It to Win It and Secret Fortune offer £100,000 every week...)
And of course the last ever episode of Total Wipeout, the clip show for the final series, is on BBC1 tomorrow afternoon. I was always fond of it, though, of course it started on 2nd January 2009, so it's not had that long a run really. If you remember the first series got an almost immediate repeat in half hour re-edits on Friday night.
I think you're confusing two Theakston vehicles, he did Britain's Braniest on Five the other year with his old mate Zoe Ball, but I think the one you're thinking of was The People's Quiz in 2007 where the top prize was actually £200,700 - 2007 hundred, you see. That went on for ages and wasn't very good, initially shown as part of the lottery of course, though it wasn't the case that it was so bad the lottery wished to be disassociated with it (when you see some of the crap that goes under their name) but because they dumped it in a teatime slot so the lottery couldn't be part of it as that can't be drawn until after 8pm.
However I think the "30 Years of CITV" did well for what it was, where as "Dale's Great Getaway" just flopped as expected.
I don't know how much appeal the CITV thing had to anyone older than me, I got bored anytime it went past the mid-nineties. I know the point of it was the thirtieth anniversary of CITV as a brand but that doesn't mean much and for primetime it would have had wider appeal had they included all ITV kids shows and featured Tiswas and the like. Nobody over the age of twenty cares about things like Jungle Run and nobody liked Ministry of Mayhem, it was a crap Bungalow rip-off they only mentioned to get Holly Willoughby on.
I did say Dale would flop, in the past you may have been able to get away with a gameshow pilot at this time of year as an entertainment special or something but not anymore, people simply don't have the patience to sit through it. Dale's not a big enough star and the concept wasn't exciting enough to attract an audience, it's just AN Other Quiz. Might have worked at 6.30, not 8.30.
When the Beeb's light entertainment was in a state at the turn of the millennium they did a load of game show pilots. Friends Like These was a hit but they also did Speculate with Gaby Roslin and Love Bites with Lily Savage which were actually transmitted on Wednesday nights and got absolutely no viewers (and the Lily Savage one I think was broadcast in the week Paul O'Grady signed a golden handcuffs with ITV), and there was another one with Ulrika that was too bad to broadcast.
I'm reminded here also of Now You're Talking, a one-off thing ITV showed at Christmas 1996, which was fronted by Pip Schofield and billed as "a light-hearted look at the way we communicate" with out-takes and games and stuff, which nobody watched but which was quite controversial at the time because it wasn't just sponsored but completely paid for by BT.
I'm guessing the BBC spend all their money on the two weeks over Christmas and ITV have so little money coming in at that time of year that we end up with low ambition programming, despite the fact that the potential audiences (particularly at weekends) should be even greater than they were in November/December.
Well, the reason the Beeb's Saturdays didn't have much in the way of light entertainment on Saturdays in recent years was that they always had the FA Cup and Six Nations getting in the way - I remember in 2004 there was so much of that on Saturday nights that in the blank weeks they just showed films and had no new series before 8pm until April. The latter isn't the case anymore but presumably they still think the FA Cup on ITV is big enough competition not to throw big stuff out.
But it's wrong to say the Beeb aren't spending any money on this time of year because there's loads of new drama on in January, as has been pointed out here the weekday 9pm slots from next week include Britain's two biggest comedy shows, a massive wildlife blockbuster and two popular dramas.
Selfridge could be massive. It's getting lots of promotion, follows DOI, and will appeal to the Downton demographic.
Yes it could be massive. But I dont think it will be, I think it'll rate okay/quite well depending on how Ripper street starts. The DoI lead in doesnt mean much, last year the results shows were rating 6million which is about the same as what Antiques roadshow rates on BBC 1. Also even though its had lots of promotion, most of that promo apart from the soaps have been during programs rating between 2-3million in the last couple of weeks. Having lots of promotion is only really effective if the programs the promotion is happening during are also being watched by lots of people which hasnt been the case apart from the soaps.
Its reviews have been average so far. Alison Graham of the Radio Times says the first episode was "pretty dull, and Piven is all teeth, beard and outstretched arms." She recommended viewers to watch BBC1s Ripper street instead even though ripper is "very very odd". Another reviewer from Inside Media Track says that Mr Selfridge "feels like an American show with lots of British actors in it" rather than a British show with an American lead and it feels "less homely than the Paradise". Ian Wylie of the Manchester Evening News has said good things about it, calling it "superb", but he would say that as he had close involvement with it and wrote Itv's press pack for it! The proof will be in the pudding and so far the reviews dont suggest it'll be anything brilliant, its just pretty good or okay.
Before CITV there was Watch It and then there were regional variations called Junior Television. Actually CITV was the first attempt at a unified schedule as the regional Junior Television could show anything and often a boring B movie aimed at a family audience was on offer when the BBC was showing Blue Peter.
Selfridge could be massive. It's getting lots of promotion, follows DOI, and will appeal to the Downton demographic.
It could easily get 8-10m, especially as Ripper St is sunk before it starts by some classic BSI scheduling.
It won't be massive. People on here seem to be talking it up to be the next downton Abbey. I think it will get steady ratings maybe 6m but no more. I bet now that the first episode will be the highest rated.
Ripper Street on BBC One looks good but i think it to will take a dip for ep 2.
As for Saturday nights I like the sound of Britain's Brightest and remember all it has got to do is to outperform the awful Magicians from last year. I think it will. For those of you crying about the loss of Total Wipeout. Give me a break.
The show became stale after the first episode because you had seen it and it's basically the same again and again. At least the prank show is a little bit different. If it can pull in 4m each week it's done it's job. Britain's Brightest should be in the 5m 20% audience zone. And that's all I think the BBC want.
Splash could be a disaster but I think it will be a hit. Still I think I am going to give Clare Balding a go on Saturday night! Some how I don't think that's going to work. :eek:
It just shows how dependent ITV1 is on Simon Cowell as none of their other offerings on Saturday do anything. Who really wants to watch ancient clips of people falling off ladders? I really am of the opinion YBF is a hindrance. It might be cheap, but so was Sons and Daughters and no one mourns the passing of that.
Looks like ITV have fallen into the same trap with Simon Cowell shows as Channel 4 did with Big Brother.
They see those shows that are bankers and will bring home the bacon for them. But then get complacent and don't seem to concentrate on improving anything else.
Surely anyone here can see the potential danger of complacency leading to dependence on these shows?
You'd think that somebody working within those channels would be able to point that out to somebody so they can take the opportunity to work on their weaknesses?
Maybe someone does but they don't get listened to?
In fairness to ITV they did produce Downton Abbey which was a big hit for them though.
Secret Service sounds peurile to be honest. I hate those kind of prank shows - there's always a nagging suspicion that the 'victims' have already been briefed in advance. The only one I've ever enjoyed was a Channel 4 series years ago called My New Best Friend, which was great because they had the freedom to be really quite near the knuckle with the set ups.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, Britain's Brightest sounds rather dull and worthy. What the BBC needs is a show - like Noel's House Party which was mentioned a few pages back - which draws in the viewers and can run from September through to March.
Secret Service sounds peurile to be honest. I hate those kind of prank shows - there's always a nagging suspicion that the 'victims' have already been briefed in advance. The only one I've ever enjoyed was a Channel 4 series years ago called My New Best Friend, which was great because they had the freedom to be really quite near the knuckle with the set ups.
I agree - Secret Service sounds like it'll be a flop, but who knows! I remember when Take Me Out was first mentioned on here, I thought that would flop and it's turned into a moderate hit for ITV. The best prank show I've seen recently is Impractical Jokers on BBC3.
I guess the final ep will struggle to get to 8m, but that's an impressive figure even if sandwiched between two 13m+ rated editions of SCD.
Just had a look on BARB and that is definitely Merlin's highest rating. The previous high was last year's 8.39m sandwiched between the Strictly final.
Spotted this in the Sunday Mirror (not my copy - obviously!!); confirms what I think we knew already - and that BBC1 is massively unlucky at getting shows with a decent shelf life and acceptable gap between series.
It's not down to Tom Ellis of course, who is letting everyone know of his availability. It's up to Miranda Hart, and if her third series can manage to hold on to 10m viewers a show, becoming one of the biggest and most popular series on telly, then I would hope BBC bosses do more than twist her arm to write a fourth and not just revert to "maybe the odd special in the future".
You're right the BBC have had bad luck lately with popular sitcoms returning sporadically. They need a few that will return guaranteed for 3 successive years.
Looks like ITV have fallen into the same trap with Simon Cowell shows as Channel 4 did with Big Brother.
They see those shows that are bankers and will bring home the bacon for them. But then get complacent and don't seem to concentrate on improving anything else.
Surely anyone here can see the potential danger of complacency leading to dependence on these shows?
You'd think that somebody working within those channels would be able to point that out to somebody so they can take the opportunity to work on their weaknesses?
Maybe someone does but they don't get listened to?
In fairness to ITV they did produce Downton Abbey which was a big hit for them though.
My thoughts exactly, should the Cowell shows go into a big decline like BB did, then ITV could be left high and dry at weekends. DA has been a justifiable success, but what was the idiotic logic in ditching WAH, which attracted 6 million viewers? Also could someone put YBF out of its misery, only the most hardcore ITV viewers seem to watch it now and most people consider it dated and predictable trash.
Saturday 29th December 2012 ITV1
16:00 - Midsomer Murders: 1.29m (7.7%) , +1: 233k (1.2%)
18:30 - 30 Years of CITV: 1.96m (8.9%) , +1: 129k (0.6%)
19:30 - I Love You've Been Framed!: 2.43m (10.7%) , +1: 186k (0.8%)
20:30 - Dale's Great Getaway: 1.46m (6.4%) , +1: 96k (0.4%)
21:35 - FILM: Love Actually: 1.64m (7.6%) , +1: 158k (0.9%)
22:30 - ITV News and Weather: 1.89m (9.1%) , +1: 143k (1.0%)
22:45 - FILM: Love Actually: 1.80m (12.4%) , +1: 208k (3.0%)
OK, it's a dire schedule but still struggle to understand how in recent months ITV is regularly dipping under 2m when not that long ago a night of programmes like last night would be flopping in the 2.5-3m range.
The CITV documentary was rather good though - though interesting this one aired at 6.30pm when ten years ago the 20th anniversary version aired at 9.25am. It just highlighted too how important kids TV is in developing the big TV talent of the future and without it I just don't see where the next generation of Saturday night stars is going to come from.
Also T4 sadly came to an end today with a Goodbye compilation on E4 (it might have actually ended last week as these seemed to be highlights of the last show) - again a major platform for presenting talent (well, the blokes at least). Next Saturday C4 just have Everybody Loves Raymond repeats, Frasier repeats and Undercover Boss in the morning before The Big Bang Theory at noon - that's hardly going to help them reach a younger audience on Saturday mornings. They haven't even taken the opportunity to move The Morning Line back to 9am considering their renewed commitment to racing.
Looks like ITV have fallen into the same trap with Simon Cowell shows as Channel 4 did with Big Brother.
They see those shows that are bankers and will bring home the bacon for them. But then get complacent and don't seem to concentrate on improving anything else.
Surely anyone here can see the potential danger of complacency leading to dependence on these shows?
You'd think that somebody working within those channels would be able to point that out to somebody so they can take the opportunity to work on their weaknesses?
Maybe someone does but they don't get listened to?
In fairness to ITV they did produce Downton Abbey which was a big hit for them though.
I don't think it's much to do with complacency. The whole industry is desperate to find the next Got Talent or X Factor. I think it just shows how rare those big hits are. ITV have tried (as have the BBC) to find a new light ent hit for years. And it's not just in the UK - the same formats tend to be hits around the world. So if there was a big hit in Germany or wherever, ITV would be bringing it here as the BBC did with The Voice. Unfortunately the big entertainment hits in Germany are Wetten Das? (You Bet?), Das Supertalent (Got Talent) and I think their local Pop Idol and The Voice adaptations are near the top of the pile as well. ITV are adapting My Man Can, a hit German gameshow. But generally everyone is in the same boat as ITV when it comes to those massive entertainment formats.
It's so difficult to find those hits in the first place that it's asking a lot for them to then find a couple more.
And in drama they're replacing their outgoing hit WIld At Heart (usually overlooked on here despite excellent ratings for many years) with a really big swing in the shape or Mr Selfridge. In Q4 2013 they'll have Downton Abbey on Sundays and Doc Martin on Mondays both pulling in huge ratings. Stuff like Scott & Bailey and Endeavour will do decent business in Q2. Benidorm will slot in as well at some point.
Looks like ITV have fallen into the same trap with Simon Cowell shows as Channel 4 did with Big Brother.
They see those shows that are bankers and will bring home the bacon for them. But then get complacent and don't seem to concentrate on improving anything else.
Surely anyone here can see the potential danger of complacency leading to dependence on these shows?
You'd think that somebody working within those channels would be able to point that out to somebody so they can take the opportunity to work on their weaknesses?
Maybe someone does but they don't get listened to?
In fairness to ITV they did produce Downton Abbey which was a big hit for them though.
In fairness to ITV they have tried to find other light entertainment hits. And we have had channels be dependent on hit formats for several years so when they stumble it's difficult to find replacements. Noel's House Party and Blind Date were cornerstones of the Saturday night schedule for BBC1 and ITV, and it was difficult to find replacements that did as well as those shows did at their peak.
I think there's a bigger problem here and that's the length of the show. The X Factor takes up 4 hours a week in primetime. This is okay when it goes well but when it falters that's a lot of hours you're not doing well in. 20/30 years ago you would have several shows in an evening so if one failed another could take up the slack. Some shows don't need to be as long as they are. Slightly shorter shows mean you can fit more programmes into an evening.
You're right the BBC have had bad luck lately with popular sitcoms returning sporadically. They need a few that will return guaranteed for 3 successive years.
BBC1 needs to be producing a steady stream of comedy hits.
When Morecambe & Wise were the champions of Christmas in the 70s, when Only Fools was the champion of Christmas comedy in the 80s and 90s, they didn't do it on their own.
When Eric & Ernie defected to ITV in 1978, BBC1 had Mike Yarwood, The Two Ronnies and Dick Emery to help fill the gap just for starters.
Throughout the 70s M&W would sit alongside, in various years, the likes of Dad's Army, Steptoe & Son, Porridge, The Likely Lads, The Good Life and Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em.
At various times Only Fools sat alongside the likes of Last Of The Summer Wine (really big at its peak), Hi-De-Hi, Just Good Friends, In Sickness And In Health, Allo Allo, Bread, Birds Of A Feather, Keeping Up Appearances, 2.4 Children and One Foot In The Grave.
This year has been a strong Christmas for sitcom in ratings term with 4 sitcoms producing 5 episodes and all doing very well in the ratings. I think we can expect to see Outnumbered next Christmas but it could well be the only one of this year's 4 to show up.
There could well be an episode of Not Going Out next year but that's not a very strong ratings player. We've heard of a Citizen Khan Christmas special next year. I think the BBC might be hoping that this could take off in the same way that Mrs Brown did, but there's no guarantee that it will.
There are a number of high-profile brand new sitcoms due next year so we wait to see if any of them can do the business. Maybe they'll manage to get a new Vicar Of Dibley or a new Gavin And Stacey for next Christmas. Maybe the BBC will be encouraged to take on a revival of Birds Of A Feather. A brand new series that they could schedule it to start at Christmas so that they get one big audience out of it before the viewers switch off in disappointment.:D As happened with Come Fly With Me and The Royle Bodyguard.
Where to start for last night's ratings? ITV1 got exactly what it deserved; BBC One attracted the default audience as per usual - but then has earned that audience - while BBC Two, Channel 4 and Channel 5 all benefited from the lacklustre fair.
As for post New Year Saturday's...I don't get it either and not just with Doctor Who on BBC One. After the failing ratings of Dancing On Ice last year I have no idea why ITV1 haven't taken the opportunity to split the show over two nights and strengthen Saturday in the process. I understand that could weaken Sunday's but if they went with something like the below I think it'd hold up fine and boost Saturday's in the process:
Saturday
18.00 You've Been Framed
18.30 Celebrity Chase
19.30 Dancing On Ice
21.30 The Jonathan Ross Show
Sunday
17.30 Take Me Out
18.45 Dancing On Ice: The Skate Off
19.45 Ant and Dec's Takeaway
21.00 Mr. Selfridge
Ant and Dec lures in a family audience who are not attracted to Call The Midwife while Take Me Out airs on a night where the 18-34 audience is less likely to be out. You've Been Framed and Celebrity Chase are filler shows which can be dropped for the FA Cup when required and Dancing On Ice is scheduled late enough so the football won't affect it.
I think there's a bigger problem here and that's the length of the show. The X Factor takes up 4 hours a week in primetime. This is okay when it goes well but when it falters that's a lot of hours you're not doing well in. 20/30 years ago you would have several shows in an evening so if one failed another could take up the slack. Some shows don't need to be as long as they are. Slightly shorter shows mean you can fit more programmes into an evening.
Usually 3 hours at most - and with it being over two nights it should actually help to set them up on those nights. Obviously Sunday is used for Downton Abbey. The problem with Saturday is that they're boxed in with Strictly, especially as it creeps later. 6.30pm-9.30pm is probably "peak" on a Saturday but this year XF wasn't going out until well after 8pm some nights leaving a huge gap earlier in the evening on ITV. They dealt with this by putting on a totally different show to Strictly and getting a lucrative young audience, but obviously they weren't chasing a massive total audience.
OFCOM's ad rules also encourage ITV to invest heavily in a few hours of high rating content leaving little ad allowance for other slots and thus limiting expense on programming.
Spotted this in the Sunday Mirror (not my copy - obviously!!); confirms what I think we knew already - and that BBC1 is massively unlucky at getting shows with a decent shelf life and acceptable gap between series.
It's not down to Tom Ellis of course, who is letting everyone know of his availability. It's up to Miranda Hart, and if her third series can manage to hold on to 10m viewers a show, becoming one of the biggest and most popular series on telly, then I would hope BBC bosses do more than twist her arm to write a fourth and not just revert to "maybe the odd special in the future".
Saying that, she's already flogged the 'will they-won't they' storyline with Miranda and Gary for two series, and in the second actually got them together for a bit. The third series is seemingly going to follow the same pattern - there's only so many ways it can be flogged before the viewers tire of it.
Saying that, she's already flogged the 'will they-won't they' storyline with Miranda and Gary for two series, and in the second actually got them together for a bit. The third series is seemingly going to follow the same pattern - there's only so many ways it can be flogged before the viewers tire of it.
Cheers did that for several series between Sam and Diane.
Don't know if this has been posted but the officials for the Strictly final are 13.37m for the performance show, and 13.35m for the results. So that finally pushes The Voice out of the top 10.
As for post New Year Saturday's...I don't get it either and not just with Doctor Who on BBC One. After the failing ratings of Dancing On Ice last year I have no idea why ITV1 haven't taken the opportunity to split the show over two nights and strengthen Saturday in the process. I understand that could weaken Sunday's but if they went with something like the below I think it'd hold up fine and boost Saturday's in the process:
It looks like BBC1 want to use Dr Who to support The Voice in the spring. But with BGT likely to go out at 8pm, that probably means Dr Who on at about 6pm. Then again when Who got move to a later slot its overnights didn't seem to approve much. I think the BBC are not too concerned about the overnights for Dr Who because they know his viewers know how to catch-up.
And ITV don't need DOI on Saturday because they've got Splash. I don't know why so many of us are so convinced celebrity diving is going to flop. Celebrity ice dancing did okay. As I've said before, Splash may have novelty value in its first series.
Don't know if this has been posted but the officials for the Strictly final are 13.37m for the performance show, and 13.35m for the results. So that finally pushes The Voice out of the top 10.
In fairness to ITV they have tried to find other light entertainment hits. And we have had channels be dependent on hit formats for several years so when they stumble it's difficult to find replacements. Noel's House Party and Blind Date were cornerstones of the Saturday night schedule for BBC1 and ITV, and it was difficult to find replacements that did as well as those shows did at their peak.
I think there's a bigger problem here and that's the length of the show. The X Factor takes up 4 hours a week in primetime. This is okay when it goes well but when it falters that's a lot of hours you're not doing well in. 20/30 years ago you would have several shows in an evening so if one failed another could take up the slack. Some shows don't need to be as long as they are. Slightly shorter shows mean you can fit more programmes into an evening.
Excellent points again, ITV have tried plenty of new formats on Saturdays that have stiffed big time_ Red or Black being the most notable expensive flop- and only TMO has been a success, but had rotten luck being scheduled opposite SCD.
Also as you've said, what can ITV replace TXF with when it's times up?
If I was ITV, I'd be very concerned if Saturday Night Takeaway did not hit 5m.
And 'BGT could be a hit'? It is a hit?
I think I meant 'could be the biggest hit of the year'. In my opinion, BGT has more chance of nearing it's 2009 peak year than XF.
Interestingly, Push the Button and Red or Black started with 6m, and the latest series of Saturday Night Takeaway started with 7m. It'd be interesting to see if it does maintain it's audience.
Comments
For some reason I thought that was next week! I'll give that a go
Could it be Mr Ellis who is leaving, not Miranda ? Mind you the Mirror has a good track record on these sort of stories - it recently ran a sycophantic article praising the BBC for making Downton Abbey:eek:
Well, there have been umpteen hidden camera shows on BBC1 in the past decade or so. Off the top of my head I can think of The Hidden Camera Show with Ainsley Harriott from 1999, which was pretty Beadle-esque, Renmotely Funny with Eammon Holmes from 2002 (a hostage-to-fortune title, that, where punters made suggestions to celebrities through an earpiece) and Spy TV with Ian Wright in 2004 which ended up being dumped in a weeknight slot. There are probably more. It's a format the broadcasters keep coming back to.
Looking at the trailer, Hammond's set looks very similar to the set Bob Monkhouse had in the early days of Candid Camera, if you ever see clips of that. It'll probably be an adequate timewaster but I don't suppose it'll be a monster hit.
And of course the last ever episode of Total Wipeout, the clip show for the final series, is on BBC1 tomorrow afternoon. I was always fond of it, though, of course it started on 2nd January 2009, so it's not had that long a run really. If you remember the first series got an almost immediate repeat in half hour re-edits on Friday night.
I think you're confusing two Theakston vehicles, he did Britain's Braniest on Five the other year with his old mate Zoe Ball, but I think the one you're thinking of was The People's Quiz in 2007 where the top prize was actually £200,700 - 2007 hundred, you see. That went on for ages and wasn't very good, initially shown as part of the lottery of course, though it wasn't the case that it was so bad the lottery wished to be disassociated with it (when you see some of the crap that goes under their name) but because they dumped it in a teatime slot so the lottery couldn't be part of it as that can't be drawn until after 8pm.
I don't know how much appeal the CITV thing had to anyone older than me, I got bored anytime it went past the mid-nineties. I know the point of it was the thirtieth anniversary of CITV as a brand but that doesn't mean much and for primetime it would have had wider appeal had they included all ITV kids shows and featured Tiswas and the like. Nobody over the age of twenty cares about things like Jungle Run and nobody liked Ministry of Mayhem, it was a crap Bungalow rip-off they only mentioned to get Holly Willoughby on.
I did say Dale would flop, in the past you may have been able to get away with a gameshow pilot at this time of year as an entertainment special or something but not anymore, people simply don't have the patience to sit through it. Dale's not a big enough star and the concept wasn't exciting enough to attract an audience, it's just AN Other Quiz. Might have worked at 6.30, not 8.30.
When the Beeb's light entertainment was in a state at the turn of the millennium they did a load of game show pilots. Friends Like These was a hit but they also did Speculate with Gaby Roslin and Love Bites with Lily Savage which were actually transmitted on Wednesday nights and got absolutely no viewers (and the Lily Savage one I think was broadcast in the week Paul O'Grady signed a golden handcuffs with ITV), and there was another one with Ulrika that was too bad to broadcast.
I'm reminded here also of Now You're Talking, a one-off thing ITV showed at Christmas 1996, which was fronted by Pip Schofield and billed as "a light-hearted look at the way we communicate" with out-takes and games and stuff, which nobody watched but which was quite controversial at the time because it wasn't just sponsored but completely paid for by BT.
Well, the reason the Beeb's Saturdays didn't have much in the way of light entertainment on Saturdays in recent years was that they always had the FA Cup and Six Nations getting in the way - I remember in 2004 there was so much of that on Saturday nights that in the blank weeks they just showed films and had no new series before 8pm until April. The latter isn't the case anymore but presumably they still think the FA Cup on ITV is big enough competition not to throw big stuff out.
But it's wrong to say the Beeb aren't spending any money on this time of year because there's loads of new drama on in January, as has been pointed out here the weekday 9pm slots from next week include Britain's two biggest comedy shows, a massive wildlife blockbuster and two popular dramas.
Its reviews have been average so far. Alison Graham of the Radio Times says the first episode was "pretty dull, and Piven is all teeth, beard and outstretched arms." She recommended viewers to watch BBC1s Ripper street instead even though ripper is "very very odd". Another reviewer from Inside Media Track says that Mr Selfridge "feels like an American show with lots of British actors in it" rather than a British show with an American lead and it feels "less homely than the Paradise". Ian Wylie of the Manchester Evening News has said good things about it, calling it "superb", but he would say that as he had close involvement with it and wrote Itv's press pack for it! The proof will be in the pudding and so far the reviews dont suggest it'll be anything brilliant, its just pretty good or okay.
It won't be massive. People on here seem to be talking it up to be the next downton Abbey. I think it will get steady ratings maybe 6m but no more. I bet now that the first episode will be the highest rated.
Ripper Street on BBC One looks good but i think it to will take a dip for ep 2.
As for Saturday nights I like the sound of Britain's Brightest and remember all it has got to do is to outperform the awful Magicians from last year. I think it will. For those of you crying about the loss of Total Wipeout. Give me a break.
The show became stale after the first episode because you had seen it and it's basically the same again and again. At least the prank show is a little bit different. If it can pull in 4m each week it's done it's job. Britain's Brightest should be in the 5m 20% audience zone. And that's all I think the BBC want.
Splash could be a disaster but I think it will be a hit. Still I think I am going to give Clare Balding a go on Saturday night!
Ken
Looks like ITV have fallen into the same trap with Simon Cowell shows as Channel 4 did with Big Brother.
They see those shows that are bankers and will bring home the bacon for them. But then get complacent and don't seem to concentrate on improving anything else.
Surely anyone here can see the potential danger of complacency leading to dependence on these shows?
You'd think that somebody working within those channels would be able to point that out to somebody so they can take the opportunity to work on their weaknesses?
Maybe someone does but they don't get listened to?
In fairness to ITV they did produce Downton Abbey which was a big hit for them though.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, Britain's Brightest sounds rather dull and worthy. What the BBC needs is a show - like Noel's House Party which was mentioned a few pages back - which draws in the viewers and can run from September through to March.
I agree - Secret Service sounds like it'll be a flop, but who knows! I remember when Take Me Out was first mentioned on here, I thought that would flop and it's turned into a moderate hit for ITV. The best prank show I've seen recently is Impractical Jokers on BBC3.
I have high hopes for Ripper Street tonight.
You're right the BBC have had bad luck lately with popular sitcoms returning sporadically. They need a few that will return guaranteed for 3 successive years.
My thoughts exactly, should the Cowell shows go into a big decline like BB did, then ITV could be left high and dry at weekends. DA has been a justifiable success, but what was the idiotic logic in ditching WAH, which attracted 6 million viewers? Also could someone put YBF out of its misery, only the most hardcore ITV viewers seem to watch it now and most people consider it dated and predictable trash.
The CITV documentary was rather good though - though interesting this one aired at 6.30pm when ten years ago the 20th anniversary version aired at 9.25am. It just highlighted too how important kids TV is in developing the big TV talent of the future and without it I just don't see where the next generation of Saturday night stars is going to come from.
Also T4 sadly came to an end today with a Goodbye compilation on E4 (it might have actually ended last week as these seemed to be highlights of the last show) - again a major platform for presenting talent (well, the blokes at least). Next Saturday C4 just have Everybody Loves Raymond repeats, Frasier repeats and Undercover Boss in the morning before The Big Bang Theory at noon - that's hardly going to help them reach a younger audience on Saturday mornings. They haven't even taken the opportunity to move The Morning Line back to 9am considering their renewed commitment to racing.
I don't think it's much to do with complacency. The whole industry is desperate to find the next Got Talent or X Factor. I think it just shows how rare those big hits are. ITV have tried (as have the BBC) to find a new light ent hit for years. And it's not just in the UK - the same formats tend to be hits around the world. So if there was a big hit in Germany or wherever, ITV would be bringing it here as the BBC did with The Voice. Unfortunately the big entertainment hits in Germany are Wetten Das? (You Bet?), Das Supertalent (Got Talent) and I think their local Pop Idol and The Voice adaptations are near the top of the pile as well. ITV are adapting My Man Can, a hit German gameshow. But generally everyone is in the same boat as ITV when it comes to those massive entertainment formats.
It's so difficult to find those hits in the first place that it's asking a lot for them to then find a couple more.
And in drama they're replacing their outgoing hit WIld At Heart (usually overlooked on here despite excellent ratings for many years) with a really big swing in the shape or Mr Selfridge. In Q4 2013 they'll have Downton Abbey on Sundays and Doc Martin on Mondays both pulling in huge ratings. Stuff like Scott & Bailey and Endeavour will do decent business in Q2. Benidorm will slot in as well at some point.
In fairness to ITV they have tried to find other light entertainment hits. And we have had channels be dependent on hit formats for several years so when they stumble it's difficult to find replacements. Noel's House Party and Blind Date were cornerstones of the Saturday night schedule for BBC1 and ITV, and it was difficult to find replacements that did as well as those shows did at their peak.
I think there's a bigger problem here and that's the length of the show. The X Factor takes up 4 hours a week in primetime. This is okay when it goes well but when it falters that's a lot of hours you're not doing well in. 20/30 years ago you would have several shows in an evening so if one failed another could take up the slack. Some shows don't need to be as long as they are. Slightly shorter shows mean you can fit more programmes into an evening.
BBC1 needs to be producing a steady stream of comedy hits.
When Morecambe & Wise were the champions of Christmas in the 70s, when Only Fools was the champion of Christmas comedy in the 80s and 90s, they didn't do it on their own.
When Eric & Ernie defected to ITV in 1978, BBC1 had Mike Yarwood, The Two Ronnies and Dick Emery to help fill the gap just for starters.
Throughout the 70s M&W would sit alongside, in various years, the likes of Dad's Army, Steptoe & Son, Porridge, The Likely Lads, The Good Life and Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em.
At various times Only Fools sat alongside the likes of Last Of The Summer Wine (really big at its peak), Hi-De-Hi, Just Good Friends, In Sickness And In Health, Allo Allo, Bread, Birds Of A Feather, Keeping Up Appearances, 2.4 Children and One Foot In The Grave.
This year has been a strong Christmas for sitcom in ratings term with 4 sitcoms producing 5 episodes and all doing very well in the ratings. I think we can expect to see Outnumbered next Christmas but it could well be the only one of this year's 4 to show up.
There could well be an episode of Not Going Out next year but that's not a very strong ratings player. We've heard of a Citizen Khan Christmas special next year. I think the BBC might be hoping that this could take off in the same way that Mrs Brown did, but there's no guarantee that it will.
There are a number of high-profile brand new sitcoms due next year so we wait to see if any of them can do the business. Maybe they'll manage to get a new Vicar Of Dibley or a new Gavin And Stacey for next Christmas. Maybe the BBC will be encouraged to take on a revival of Birds Of A Feather. A brand new series that they could schedule it to start at Christmas so that they get one big audience out of it before the viewers switch off in disappointment.:D As happened with Come Fly With Me and The Royle Bodyguard.
As for post New Year Saturday's...I don't get it either and not just with Doctor Who on BBC One. After the failing ratings of Dancing On Ice last year I have no idea why ITV1 haven't taken the opportunity to split the show over two nights and strengthen Saturday in the process. I understand that could weaken Sunday's but if they went with something like the below I think it'd hold up fine and boost Saturday's in the process:
18.00 You've Been Framed
18.30 Celebrity Chase
19.30 Dancing On Ice
21.30 The Jonathan Ross Show
Sunday
17.30 Take Me Out
18.45 Dancing On Ice: The Skate Off
19.45 Ant and Dec's Takeaway
21.00 Mr. Selfridge
Ant and Dec lures in a family audience who are not attracted to Call The Midwife while Take Me Out airs on a night where the 18-34 audience is less likely to be out. You've Been Framed and Celebrity Chase are filler shows which can be dropped for the FA Cup when required and Dancing On Ice is scheduled late enough so the football won't affect it.
Usually 3 hours at most - and with it being over two nights it should actually help to set them up on those nights. Obviously Sunday is used for Downton Abbey. The problem with Saturday is that they're boxed in with Strictly, especially as it creeps later. 6.30pm-9.30pm is probably "peak" on a Saturday but this year XF wasn't going out until well after 8pm some nights leaving a huge gap earlier in the evening on ITV. They dealt with this by putting on a totally different show to Strictly and getting a lucrative young audience, but obviously they weren't chasing a massive total audience.
OFCOM's ad rules also encourage ITV to invest heavily in a few hours of high rating content leaving little ad allowance for other slots and thus limiting expense on programming.
Saying that, she's already flogged the 'will they-won't they' storyline with Miranda and Gary for two series, and in the second actually got them together for a bit. The third series is seemingly going to follow the same pattern - there's only so many ways it can be flogged before the viewers tire of it.
Cheers did that for several series between Sam and Diane.
It looks like BBC1 want to use Dr Who to support The Voice in the spring. But with BGT likely to go out at 8pm, that probably means Dr Who on at about 6pm. Then again when Who got move to a later slot its overnights didn't seem to approve much. I think the BBC are not too concerned about the overnights for Dr Who because they know his viewers know how to catch-up.
And ITV don't need DOI on Saturday because they've got Splash. I don't know why so many of us are so convinced celebrity diving is going to flop. Celebrity ice dancing did okay. As I've said before, Splash may have novelty value in its first series.
Yes it has been mentioned.
Number 1 reality competition show of 2012.
Excellent points again, ITV have tried plenty of new formats on Saturdays that have stiffed big time_ Red or Black being the most notable expensive flop- and only TMO has been a success, but had rotten luck being scheduled opposite SCD.
Also as you've said, what can ITV replace TXF with when it's times up?
I think I meant 'could be the biggest hit of the year'. In my opinion, BGT has more chance of nearing it's 2009 peak year than XF.
Interestingly, Push the Button and Red or Black started with 6m, and the latest series of Saturday Night Takeaway started with 7m. It'd be interesting to see if it does maintain it's audience.