COMPARATIVE povity I lived with it as a child. it is horrible and unless you have personal experience of 'povity Brtain style' I am sure you will not ever really know what it feels like to be singled out in this way!
The trouble with 'comparative' poverty is that it is an artificial construct that bears no relationship to peoples actual experience. Take unemployed family 'X' - due to their low income (less than 60% of the average wage) they live in 'poverty'. Over the last 3 years average wage rises have been less than the rises in welfare benefits, so the amount of people living in 'poverty' has fallen. So back to family 'X' - they have seen their income rise in line with inflation so effectively they are no better off today than they were 5 years ago. But due to the reduction in the level of the average wage (due to rises below the inflation rate) they are suddenly lifted out of 'poverty'.
That is why it is daft talking about 'comparative poverty'
This government has made it more likely that people on benefits will have to turn to food banks to help them in times of 'additional difficulty' My son and his partner and their child had three periods last year when the benefit system failed to pay them money owed (agreed benefits) on time! in addition to this WE PAID FOR THEIR CHRISTMAS SHOPPING because the date of their Christmas benefit was set for th 28th of December. It was due on 21st but was delayed by 7 days because of HIGH DEMAND!
If we hadn't been able to help them they wouldn't have been able to eat during the Christmas period!
anyone out there think this is acceptable! oh yea David Cam-moron says it's Okay.
Wouldn't that be because of the DWP processing times, rather than gov policy.
So your son got free food and eventually got all his money backdated.
So he was actually better off for using the food bank.
DWP payments took time under Labour too, but they told the DWP not to inform the claimants about the existance of the food banks.You had to apply for a crisis loan, which was then deducted from your benefits.
Talking of crisis loans(Labours preferred way to deal with people in desperate need)years ago, i had to spend a hour on the phone getting asked dumb questions like "what would happen to you if you don't eat"
Only to get offered £6.50 to buy some food for the day.~I lived 6 miles away and it was pissin down and the bus was £4.50 return, so i didn't bother, i just borrow a £5 of a mate.
Even then they still tried to get £6.50 back off me.
tossers
I don't agree. If your child goes to a school where ALL the children have a hot cooked school meal every day in school and you can'r afford to buy the same for them, they suffer bullying and are stigmatised because of this one thing, even Free school meals don't solve this problem because everyone knows who has free meals because of the way dinner money is often collected in school. Packed lunches if all the childs friends have sandwhiches (bought from Greggs) and your child brings a 'home made one into school' it can make them feel (and be treated) differently. if this small difference can cause serious disparity between children think what smelling of damp,wearing second-hand clothes, living in the poor part of town, not having a car and never going on holiday will do to the children. COMPARATIVE povity I lived with it as a child. it is horrible and unless you have personal experience of 'povity Brtain style' I am sure you will not ever really know what it feels like to be singled out in this way!
Please don't try to lecture me about poverty. I have seen poverty first hands in parts of the world where there is real and desperate poverty. I am not super rich as some on here seem to imply, everything I have I have by my own efforts and through making sacrifices, I do know the value of things its just that I do not believe in the hand out society with everyone dependant on government largesse that some advocate. I believe in the hand up society where people do have to make decisions and go without some things but in the long run this makes them better people than being dependant on the state for everything, IMO
Labour...told the DWP not to inform the claimants about the existance of the food banks.
Do you have a link for that. As I find it difficult to believe the government would instruct the DWP to deliberately not inform people in need of food of a source of help.
Do you have a link for that. As I find it difficult to believe the government would instruct the DWP to deliberately not inform people in need of food of a source of help.
"
Benefit delay...
...However, in December 2008 the then-Labour government issued a directive stopping JCPs(job centre plus) from referring clients in crisis to a foodbank.
When the charity challenged the government over this decision, it initially responded that, among other reasons, all those entitled to benefits received them on the day if they were in crisis and that delay was not an issue.But the trust says it is "simply not true that all those entitled to benefits receive them on the day.
The eventual response given in January 2010 stated that 37,046 people waited 17 days or more for their jobseeker's allowance, of which 20,068 waited 22 days or more.
The Tories re-introduced it and get slagged of for the increase in use, when the alternative was being on the phone for an hour answering stupid questions to get a miserly giro check to cover a couple of days, that you had to collect and then pay it back.
I'm also another person on another thread according to some people.
and......
You failed to elaborate.
Probably another of your many user names currysocks.
I'm not elaborating to someone who has previously been banned for being abusive to those with differing opinions. Get back to your sad bitter little blog with its 8 readers.
Please don't try to lecture me about poverty. I have seen poverty first hands in parts of the world where there is real and desperate poverty. I am not super rich as some on here seem to imply, everything I have I have by my own efforts and through making sacrifices, I do know the value of things its just that I do not believe in the hand out society with everyone dependant on government largesse that some advocate. I believe in the hand up society where people do have to make decisions and go without some things but in the long run this makes them better people than being dependant on the state for everything, IMO
why is it that when you speak 'you imply' you are right because you 'tag' a few other bits of info onto your short statement and that (to you) is Okay. when I speak what I believe, you tell me off for 'lecturing' I simply said what I believe.
typical conservative logic I guess. This upstart (voiceinthenight) uses common words, he didn't have a 'private education' etc etc so he is just a servant and should keep quiet. unbelievable.
why is it that when you speak 'you imply' you are right because you 'tag' a few other bits of info onto your short statement and that (to you) is Okay. when I speak what I believe, you tell me off for 'lecturing' I simply said what I believe.
typical conservative logic I guess. This upstart (voiceinthenight) uses common words, he didn't have a 'private education' etc etc so he is just a servant and should keep quiet. unbelievable.
I took exception to your post as I saw it as lecturing and patronising. Maybe I got that wrong but given your post above I am inclined to think not.
As to typical conservative logic I have no idea what that is perhaps you would care to enlighten me. As I said to another poster recently when posters try to guess the allegiances of fellow posters they are more often wrong than right, as indeed you are wrong in this instance. Still I guess stereotyping is useful when there is a poverty of thought :rolleyes:
i would like to see a real definition of poverty. what is it exactly in britain? is it having to wear primark clothes? a cheap phone? only a bowl of choco pops for breakfast? a pre-owned car?
ive seen poverty in india. whole families living on the railway stations. barefoot children collecting plastic bottles.
shacks made from tin and plastic sheeting. with no sanitation.washing babies under an outside tap further up the road
if someone can show me where there are families living in similar conditions in britain, i will accept we have genuine poverty. as that is not going to happen, i dont accept stories from the guardian or the mirror bleating pathetically about poverty.
i would like to see a real definition of poverty. what is it exactly in britain? is it having to wear primark clothes? a cheap phone? only a bowl of choco pops for breakfast? a pre-owned car?
ive seen poverty in india. whole families living on the railway stations. barefoot children collecting plastic bottles.
shacks made from tin and plastic sheeting. with no sanitation.washing babies under an outside tap further up the road
if someone can show me where there are families living in similar conditions in britain, i will accept we have genuine poverty. as that is not going to happen, i dont accept stories from the guardian or the mirror bleating pathetically about poverty.
How about a shorter life expectancy, more health problems, inferior health care, greater risk of being a victim of crime, inferior education, fewer prospects and aspirations.
Is that enough to be going on with, or wouldn't you personally mind being shafted from birth?
How about a shorter life expectancy, more health problems, inferior health care, greater risk of being a victim of crime, inferior education, fewer prospects and aspirations.
Is that enough to be going on with, or wouldn't you personally mind being shafted from birth?
those things dont happen to people outside of the poverty tag? people on the right side of the poverty tag dont suffer from inferior health care? or risk being a victim of crime? we all suffer from those things you've listed. inferior education is freely available in many schools. inferior health care is available to all in every hospital. crime happens to anyone . rich or poor. living in so called poverty does not make anyone more likely to be robbed or burgled. prospects and aspirations are freely available to all. as for shorter life expectancy, why would that be? i suspect its because people without work smoke and drink and eat junk all day. poverty does not force a packet of marlboro on anyone. thats a choice. eating junk is a choice. carrots are cheap. so is a swede or cabbage. veg is cheaper than junk.shorter life expectancy is due to lifestyle choice. not poverty.
i dont accept stories from the guardian or the mirror bleating pathetically about poverty.
Good - That must mean that you are intending to conduct your own research.
My advice is - Wrap up well. Then spend a day hanging around a Payday loan company. I hope you are truly prepared for the sea of misery you are about to encounter.... http://www.workingforwalthamstow.org.uk/legal-loanshark-lobby-lords/
In that case they have taken a leaf out of Labour's book. Child poverty rose under the last Labour Government.
Check if you don't believe me ........................
That reply reminds me of all the politicians in the house of commons. Instead of trying do something to help the country they just point out each others faults and empty promises (which there are many)
those things dont happen to people outside of the poverty tag? people on the right side of the poverty tag dont suffer from inferior health care? or risk being a victim of crime? we all suffer from those things you've listed. inferior education is freely available in many schools. inferior health care is available to all in every hospital. crime happens to anyone . rich or poor. living in so called poverty does not make anyone more likely to be robbed or burgled. prospects and aspirations are freely available to all. as for shorter life expectancy, why would that be? i suspect its because people without work smoke and drink and eat junk all day. poverty does not force a packet of marlboro on anyone. thats a choice. eating junk is a choice. carrots are cheap. so is a swede or cabbage. veg is cheaper than junk.shorter life expectancy is due to lifestyle choice. not poverty.
So if you live in an estate where the crime levels are through the roof you probably only become a victim of crime as often as a middleclass family from the posh part of town. Utter tripe.
Some areas of the UK are very undesirable they're usually not the parts on the main streets you pass on the bus. I am lucky to live in a nice rural area now but my hometown is a horrible place to live and I can assure you the differences in some peoples standard of living in the UK is huge. I know plenty of people who struggle to feed themselves due to rising costs and they are nothing like the demonised so called scroungers so many tory supporters on these threads seem to think they are. (they're human beings incase anyone cares anymore)
So if you live in an estate where the crime levels are through the roof you probably only become a victim of crime as often as a middleclass family from the posh part of town. Utter tripe.
Some areas of the UK are very undesirable they're usually not the parts on the main streets you pass on the bus. I am lucky to live in a nice rural area now but my hometown is a horrible place to live and I can assure you the differences in some peoples standard of living in the UK is huge. I know plenty of people who struggle to feed themselves due to rising costs and they are nothing like the demonised so called scroungers so many tory supporters on these threads seem to think they are. (they're human beings incase anyone cares anymore)
I think (hope) lots of people do still care, it's just that not very many of them post on this site.
If people cared they'd either be:
Supporting charities, with either time or money, whose aim is to supplement what the Government can achieve.
Voluntarily paying extra tax.
It would seem that the main thing that the Government seems to achieve is to give people money to pass on to third parties in order for them to make profit.
Comments
The trouble with 'comparative' poverty is that it is an artificial construct that bears no relationship to peoples actual experience. Take unemployed family 'X' - due to their low income (less than 60% of the average wage) they live in 'poverty'. Over the last 3 years average wage rises have been less than the rises in welfare benefits, so the amount of people living in 'poverty' has fallen. So back to family 'X' - they have seen their income rise in line with inflation so effectively they are no better off today than they were 5 years ago. But due to the reduction in the level of the average wage (due to rises below the inflation rate) they are suddenly lifted out of 'poverty'.
That is why it is daft talking about 'comparative poverty'
Wouldn't that be because of the DWP processing times, rather than gov policy.
So your son got free food and eventually got all his money backdated.
So he was actually better off for using the food bank.
DWP payments took time under Labour too, but they told the DWP not to inform the claimants about the existance of the food banks.You had to apply for a crisis loan, which was then deducted from your benefits.
Only to get offered £6.50 to buy some food for the day.~I lived 6 miles away and it was pissin down and the bus was £4.50 return, so i didn't bother, i just borrow a £5 of a mate.
Even then they still tried to get £6.50 back off me.
tossers
Please don't try to lecture me about poverty. I have seen poverty first hands in parts of the world where there is real and desperate poverty. I am not super rich as some on here seem to imply, everything I have I have by my own efforts and through making sacrifices, I do know the value of things its just that I do not believe in the hand out society with everyone dependant on government largesse that some advocate. I believe in the hand up society where people do have to make decisions and go without some things but in the long run this makes them better people than being dependant on the state for everything, IMO
Well, crucially, you're not measuring poverty, you're measuring inequality. That's not the same thing.
Regards,
Cypher
" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12023054
The Tories re-introduced it and get slagged of for the increase in use, when the alternative was being on the phone for an hour answering stupid questions to get a miserly giro check to cover a couple of days, that you had to collect and then pay it back.
Surely not. You're seriously trying to tell me that the wealth divide increased under a political party that supports capitalism?
Yer havin' me on.
Probably another of your many user names currysocks.
I'm not elaborating to someone who has previously been banned for being abusive to those with differing opinions. Get back to your sad bitter little blog with its 8 readers.
that is prbinly one of the most rediculous statements I have heard to date on here.
Children get cared for by adults adults in debt, or poverty mean children in debt ot poverty.
why is it that when you speak 'you imply' you are right because you 'tag' a few other bits of info onto your short statement and that (to you) is Okay. when I speak what I believe, you tell me off for 'lecturing' I simply said what I believe.
typical conservative logic I guess. This upstart (voiceinthenight) uses common words, he didn't have a 'private education' etc etc so he is just a servant and should keep quiet. unbelievable.
Absolutely.
Go to Africa, like I have, and you will see poverty.
Poverty in the UK? What a joke.
I took exception to your post as I saw it as lecturing and patronising. Maybe I got that wrong but given your post above I am inclined to think not.
As to typical conservative logic I have no idea what that is perhaps you would care to enlighten me. As I said to another poster recently when posters try to guess the allegiances of fellow posters they are more often wrong than right, as indeed you are wrong in this instance. Still I guess stereotyping is useful when there is a poverty of thought :rolleyes:
Labour has it's flaws, but at least they tried to sort out the mess.
Tory = party for the rich and elite.
ive seen poverty in india. whole families living on the railway stations. barefoot children collecting plastic bottles.
shacks made from tin and plastic sheeting. with no sanitation.washing babies under an outside tap further up the road
if someone can show me where there are families living in similar conditions in britain, i will accept we have genuine poverty. as that is not going to happen, i dont accept stories from the guardian or the mirror bleating pathetically about poverty.
How about a shorter life expectancy, more health problems, inferior health care, greater risk of being a victim of crime, inferior education, fewer prospects and aspirations.
Is that enough to be going on with, or wouldn't you personally mind being shafted from birth?
Good - That must mean that you are intending to conduct your own research.
My advice is - Wrap up well. Then spend a day hanging around a Payday loan company. I hope you are truly prepared for the sea of misery you are about to encounter....
http://www.workingforwalthamstow.org.uk/legal-loanshark-lobby-lords/
That reply reminds me of all the politicians in the house of commons. Instead of trying do something to help the country they just point out each others faults and empty promises (which there are many)
So if you live in an estate where the crime levels are through the roof you probably only become a victim of crime as often as a middleclass family from the posh part of town. Utter tripe.
Some areas of the UK are very undesirable they're usually not the parts on the main streets you pass on the bus. I am lucky to live in a nice rural area now but my hometown is a horrible place to live and I can assure you the differences in some peoples standard of living in the UK is huge. I know plenty of people who struggle to feed themselves due to rising costs and they are nothing like the demonised so called scroungers so many tory supporters on these threads seem to think they are. (they're human beings incase anyone cares anymore)
I think (hope) lots of people do still care, it's just that not very many of them post on this site.
Supporting charities, with either time or money, whose aim is to supplement what the Government can achieve.
Voluntarily paying extra tax.
It would seem that the main thing that the Government seems to achieve is to give people money to pass on to third parties in order for them to make profit.
Where it's more important to give tax breaks to the wealthy than making sure that kids have got food in their bellies.