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Gunman in Plymouth attempts to rob - gets killed by members of the public

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    Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    I hope they are. They are guilty of manslaughter at the very least.

    Far to early to jump to that conclusion. A full enquiry will determine if there is evidence to charge anyone.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,934
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    I do worry though. When you're, for all intents and purposes, a human killing machine, every day you're there.. looking for risks.. looking to protect people from prolific harm-doers like the so-called Gas-mask Gunman.. it can be tough.

    I'm so tough that I had to register my fists with the police as a deadly weapon.
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    CaxtonCaxton Posts: 28,881
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    When I read this story my immediate thoughts were oh well another one who will not be committing any more crimes again. No great loss to society.
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    GiovanGiovan Posts: 747
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    JamesC81 wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21208674

    Now thats how you deal with a dangerous criminal with a gun! :eek:

    Even with his gun he couldnt win

    Power to the people! :D

    They murdered him.
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    GiovanGiovan Posts: 747
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    Far to early to jump to that conclusion. A full enquiry will determine if there is evidence to charge anyone.

    He was alive before they assaulted him. I don't think their guilt can be in any doubt.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,934
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    Giovan wrote: »
    They murdered him.

    You say that like it's a bad thing.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,391
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    Serves him right really, although I would of took the gas mask off him once he was held down and the gun was off him.
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    tealadytealady Posts: 26,268
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    I hope they are. They are guilty of manslaughter at the very least.
    Don't know how you reach that conclusion. On the limited facts available, they acted lawfully.
    It may be that later evidence is found to the contrary or that reinforces that their actions were lawful.
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    GiovanGiovan Posts: 747
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    flobadob wrote: »
    You say that like it's a bad thing.

    It is. We don't have vigilante rule here and we don't have the death penalty for robbery.

    If this is seen as acceptable then the next story you might read is "man mistaken for robber dies while being restrained"
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    GiovanGiovan Posts: 747
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    tealady wrote: »
    Don't know how you reach that conclusion. On the limited facts available, they acted lawfully.
    It may be that later evidence is found to the contrary or that reinforces that their actions were lawful.

    How is suffocating an unarmed man to death lawful?
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    nanscombenanscombe Posts: 16,588
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    The only fact available... he's dead.

    If this were to happen in someones home, where they wouldn't have eye-witnesses and CCTV, they would possibly have been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

    Giovan wrote: »
    How is suffocating an unarmed man to death lawful?

    It may still be judged as accidental, death by misadventure?

    Plus it seems he was only unconscious when arrested, so he was probably in custody when he died.
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    GiovanGiovan Posts: 747
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    How come in other cases the householder or shopowner has been arrested but these haven't?
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    GiovanGiovan Posts: 747
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    nanscombe wrote: »
    The only fact available... he's dead.

    If this were to happen in someones home, where they wouldn't have eye-witnesses and CCTV, they would possibly have been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.




    It may still be judged as accidental, death by misadventure?

    How can it be an accident?
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    CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    Giovan wrote: »
    How is suffocating an unarmed man to death lawful?

    Courts have ruled that lethal force is reasonable in certain cases, so it might be.
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    nanscombenanscombe Posts: 16,588
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    Giovan wrote: »
    How can it be an accident?

    Because no-one realised his breathing was restricted and thought to remove his gas mask perhaps?

    After all, Its been over 60 years since the general public had experience of wearing a gas mask.
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    Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    Giovan wrote: »
    He was alive before they assaulted him. I don't think their guilt can be in any doubt.

    I dont know what the cause of death is yet, do you?

    I dont know exactly what everyone, including the gunman was doing, do you?

    That is why there will be a full enquiry, so they can find out.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,934
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    tothegrand wrote: »
    Serves him right really, although I would of took the gas mask off him once he was held down and the gun was off him.

    Well, that's a lesson learnt.
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    GiovanGiovan Posts: 747
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    Cryolemon wrote: »
    Courts have ruled that lethal force is reasonable in certain cases, so it might be.

    This one won't be, He was unarmed and alone while several people assaulted him.
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    JELLIES0JELLIES0 Posts: 6,709
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    U96 wrote: »
    Gas mask already restricts breathing.
    I guess with all the people holding him down(with his mask still on) caused him to suffocate.
    Silly people.

    Why silly ?
    U96 wrote: »
    No excuse for suffocating the guy once he was disarmed though.

    Aw bless.

    I am pleased that common sense has so far prevailed.
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    GiovanGiovan Posts: 747
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    I dont know what the cause of death is yet, do you?

    Yes, he suffocated while people assaulted him.
    I dont know exactly what everyone, including the gunman was doing, do you?

    Yes,he was suffocating and no doubt desperately trying to free himself, The killers were suffocating him.
    That is why there will be a full enquiry, so they can find out.


    Why haven't they been arrested like other people in such circumstances are?
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    Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    Giovan wrote: »
    This one won't be, He was unarmed and alone while several people assaulted him.

    Restraining someone can cause death if the person is held face down.

    The Police have had problems with this in the past, and are now trained not to use such methods. The general public are not likely to be aware, and holding someone down could be considered reasonable in such circumstances.

    An enquiry will reveal all.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 11,934
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    Giovan wrote: »
    How can it be an accident?

    Because they had no intention to kill him and could not have reasonably assumed that their actions would lead to his death?

    Given the fact that the police haven't arrested any of them, they've probably had a look at the CCTV and come to the conclusion that a charge is unlikely. An arrest is not inevitable after a death.
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    The TerminatorThe Terminator Posts: 5,312
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    Didn't realise Giovan was Italian for "Jubbly", you live and learn!
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    GiovanGiovan Posts: 747
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    Restraining someone can cause death if the person is held face down.

    The Police have had problems with this in the past, and are now trained not to use such methods. The general public are not likely to be aware, and holding someone down could be considered reasonable in such circumstances.

    An enquiry will reveal all.

    Shouldn't they be arrested?
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    Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    Giovan wrote: »
    Yes, he suffocated while people assaulted him.


    Yes,he was suffocating and no doubt desperately trying to free himself, The killers were suffocating him.


    Why haven't they been arrested like other people in such circumstances are?

    You have the post mortem report do you?

    Until that is available, the cause of death is unclear.

    Those dealing must have decided there were no reasons for an arrest at the time.

    Householders do tend to get arrested, because the home is the potential crime scene, and it has to be preserved.
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