Can someone clarify for me what Derek's role in the care home is? Is he a resident? A volunteer? Care in the Community? I can't figure out what he's actually doing there.
I think we were told in the pilot that he worked there. But that could be as a volunteer or as a paid employee. What work he actually does is anyone's guess. I can't imagine Hannah giving him the responsibility of helping a resident use the toilet, or giving them a bath, or cleaning a room. He seems to need as much supervision as the elderly.
It may be a cynical way of looking at it but it suggests that he was perhaps a little apprehensive about criticism and wanted to prompt what the critics and reviewers should think before anyone had the chance to stick the boot in first.
I can believe that. He felt Life's Too Short was judged too harshly before people had seen the series. The trouble is he's blind to fair criticism and resorts to the 'you just don't get it it' argument.
I also notice that unusually he put out a 'making of' episode before both series began. Almost as if he's trying to show people his heart is in the right place.
And that is very patronizing of him to make that assumption.
Indeed. He keeps saying he wishes people, himself included, would be more like Derek. I've yet to see anything that makes the character such an aspiration.
I think the strongest criticism is aimed at the drama aspect of it rather than the comedy.
People do accept that the comedy is probably supposed to be mild, and that is the very reason why people are making allowances for that and putting the drama aspect of it under more scrutiny than they would a pure comedy.
The comedy though is broad, juvenile, slapstick. It's not even subtle comedy. So for anyone to ask people don't focus on it is frustrating as it's such a jarring, in your face aspect of the show.
But I do realise this is considered a light drama by Gervais. But when you go through the episodes it's very joke heavy with little genuine drama. At the same time I get confused by scenes.
When Derek crawls out of the toilet after vomiting and gives the camera a glance, are we supposed to laugh or find it sad? Maybe sad. But then we have the old man coming in having wet himself and Kev being his boorish self, so it is a comedy scene.
that's you twisting things again. using those smilies does not equal what you are suggesting i meant by it. i did not say your post was irrelevant and dull...you said that. don't pretend to know me. i was not being rude but you suggesting i am when I wasn't is you being rude to me.
You are right, I shouldn't be telling you what you mean. So what did you mean when you replied to my post with :rolleyes: :sleep: ?
no it's not a FACT that Ricky uses his Derek impression to make fun of people. honestly it appears that just because YOU think something that makes it a fundamental truth. that's a pretty high opinion of yourself to say the least.
i've already explained to you what i meant. and from your last few comments to me it proves i was right.
the links you provide are not fact of what you're suggesting. it only show's how you are interpreting it to fit in with your dislike of Ricky.
you don't appear to be adding to the coversation regarding the show. you're just using the topic to hurl abuse at ricky gervais. i find that quite sad.
I think we were told in the pilot that he worked there. But that could be as a volunteer or as a paid employee. What work he actually does is anyone's guess. I can't imagine Hannah giving him the responsibility of helping a resident use the toilet, or giving them a bath, or cleaning a room. He seems to need as much supervision as the elderly.
I can believe that. He felt Life's Too Short was judged too harshly before people had seen the series. The trouble is he's blind to fair criticism and resorts to the 'you just don't get it it' argument.
I also notice that unusually he put out a 'making of' episode before both series began. Almost as if he's trying to show people his heart is in the right place.
Indeed. He keeps saying he wishes people, himself included, would be more like Derek. I've yet to see anything that makes the character such an aspiration.
The comedy though is broad, juvenile, slapstick. It's not even subtle comedy. So for anyone to ask people don't focus on it is frustrating as it's such a jarring, in your face aspect of the show.
But I do realise this is considered a light drama by Gervais. But when you go through the episodes it's very joke heavy with little genuine drama. At the same time I get confused by scenes.
When Derek crawls out of the toilet after vomiting and gives the camera a glance, are we supposed to laugh or find it sad? Maybe sad. But then we have the old man coming in having wet himself and Kev being his boorish self, so it is a comedy scene.
That was the scene which really jarred for me in the current episode.
We are expected to take this as a mockumentary aren't we? In the same vein as The Office?
With all the looks to camera and instances where a character may react in a perhaps embarrassed way to what the camera caught, I took it that this is done in the mockumentary style. Is this correct?
Because in the final scene Hannah and Derek look at the camera a couple of times as they are sat on the toilet floor.
Then somebody walks in to the toilets and we see from an over the shoulder point of view from this new character at a different angle that there is no camera crew in there there at all.
We see the space that would be occupied by the camera but there's nothing there. Just the wall.
Maybe this was deliberate. But if so then why bother even trying to emulate the mockumentary style at all? It just really jarred me that in most scenes they try to make it look like an authentic fly on the wall documentary, then in a scene such as this they just break their own rules. It just makes to look messy and unsure of itself in regards to what it is or what it's trying to appear to be.
Maybe this was deliberate. But if so then why bother even trying to emulate the mockumentary style at all? It just really jarred me that in most scenes they try to make it look like an authentic fly on the wall documentary, then in a scene such as this they just break their own rules. It just makes to look messy and unsure of itself in regards to what it is or what it's trying to appear to be.
I agree. It's two shows/styles/formats in one.
There is Derek talking to the camera then telling the granny to get out of the shot.
Dougie has his own little peices to camera when he is sat in his cupboard.
Hannah had a few looks to camera to indicate her thoughts.
Yet the rest is like the cameras aren't there at all.
I was trying to work out the same with Modern Family (maybe i'm putting too much thought into it ).
There are the obvious parts when the family members are talking directly to the camera. There are points in episodes where you can tell that it is supposed to be a fly on the wall scene. Then it just breaks out into a standard sitcom for a bit.
I agree. It's two shows/styles/formats in one.
There is Derek talking to the camera then telling the granny to get out of the shot.
Dougie has his own little peices to camera when he is sat in his cupboard.
Hannah had a few looks to camera to indicate her thoughts.
Yet the rest is like the cameras aren't there at all.
I was trying to work out the same with Modern Family (maybe i'm putting too much thought into it ).
There are the obvious parts when the family members are talking directly to the camera. There are points in episodes where you can tell that it is supposed to be a fly on the wall scene. Then it just breaks out into a standard sitcom for a bit.
I've seen 'Science' before but I forgot about that.
Good grief, I'd say that was pretty damning evidence. I hadn't even seen that second clip.
The first clip even describes the posture, and hair, and the character setup for Derek.
The second clip is pretty much an acting performance of Derek. Even down to some of the little mannerisms of Derek.
This is what passes as research for the character of Derek?
But his explanation? But Derek is 'nice' and 'kind'. Hmm, doesn't really cut it. It's clear what research he employed in order to depict Derek. His own pisstake on a type of person who he sees in a derogatory manner.
Yes, that second clip in itself is very telling I think.
He could have depicted Derek in a multitude of ways. But it appears to me now that his performance is based on what he already does to mock certain people.
You'd think he'd have the sense to distance his performance of Derek from the stereotype he had previously used which Derek is obviously based upon.
If Derek is a character based on his own life experiences many years ago, and he sees Derek as an endearing character, then why on earth in those clips did he use a prototype of Derek in a derogatory manner?
i've already explained to you what i meant. and from your last few comments to me it proves i was right.
the links you provide are not fact of what you're suggesting. it only show's how you are interpreting it to fit in with your dislike of Ricky.
you don't appear to be adding to the coversation regarding the show. you're just using the topic to hurl abuse at ricky gervais. i find that quite sad.
Perhaps strictly speaking maybe they aren't what you'd describe as fact if you wanted to be technical about it.
But after seeing the second clip especially I don't see how anyone could reasonably deny it.
the links you provide are not fact of what you're suggesting. it only show's how you are interpreting it to fit in with your dislike of Ricky.
Same facial expression, same hair, same mannerisms, dress style, same interests. I don't see how you can deny that this character is Gervais playing 'Derek'.
I can't do anymore but provide you with the evidence. You have your opinion.
you don't appear to be adding to the coversation regarding the show. you're just using the topic to hurl abuse at ricky gervais. i find that quite sad.
How am I not adding to the conversation of the show when I'm discussing the motives and sincerity behind Derek by providing links that show Gervais using the character in a derogatory manner?
Gervais has defended this show by explaining that Derek isn't disabled. That he's a lovely, kind man who he wishes more people would be like. I'm happy to accept Derek isn't disabled, but for me Gervais is a liar when he talks fondly of this character. Or at least he has a lot of explaining to do with the above clips.
The guy who just is Derek in that Science clip, Ricky describes him as "the bane of my life" and "his DNA is a mess". What a nice way to talk about a man with possible learning difficulties. Clearly he had no compassion or qualms about making fun of those sorts of people then, despite them actually being fans of his. Now he expects everyone to think he actually adores people like that.
Maybe this was deliberate. But if so then why bother even trying to emulate the mockumentary style at all? It just really jarred me that in most scenes they try to make it look like an authentic fly on the wall documentary, then in a scene such as this they just break their own rules. It just makes to look messy and unsure of itself in regards to what it is or what it's trying to appear to be.
Ha, I just realised what you were talking about. That is odd. I was going to say is it a traditional drama/sitcom but with fourth wall breaking? The Faux Documentary link posted by catsitter makes more sense.
no it's not a FACT that Ricky uses his Derek impression to make fun of people. honestly it appears that just because YOU think something that makes it a fundamental truth. that's a pretty high opinion of yourself to say the least.
This was discussed at some length when the pilot went out.
Can you just confirm have you watched Science? He does a routine with an identical character to Derek and describes characters of his type as "a mess" and says he means "their DNA". He's quite vicious about people who display those type of social characteristics. Not only that but he's attacking them in the context of being his fans and autograph hunters.
I would be surprised if this gets another series but Gervais has long been overrated (as seen by his cameos in every American TV show going), but the fact is, almost every series he's made has been worse than the one before and the goodwill he won with The Office has almost run out.
Perhaps strictly speaking maybe they aren't what you'd describe as fact if you wanted to be technical about it.
But after seeing the second clip especially I don't see how anyone could reasonably deny it.
I don't understand how anyone can either? Perhaps he is as confused about it as others are entitled to be.
I think people are reading too much into this now. Derek is a harmless middle-aged man who may or may not have learning difficulties and who volunteers in a residential home.
As for the series, some like it, some dont and some dont like Ricky Gervais so dislike it by default, which is a shame.
Can you just confirm have you watched Science? He does a routine with an identical character to Derek and describes characters of his type as "a mess" and says he means "their DNA". He's quite vicious about people who display those type of social characteristics. Not only that but he's attacking them in the context of being his fans and autograph hunters.
I agree, it's a fairly unpleasant trip into Gervais's egocentric psyche, all Autograph Hunters are sad, hunchback simpletons with infected DNA.
OK, we can accept Comedic licence, but Jim Davidson gets a hard time when he employs Chalky White, a Black stereotype character, Gervais should be similarly chastised for his Mong/Derek one.
For all intents and purposes that is Derek.
I think that somebody would need to be very disingenuous to claim that the similarity is merely slight.
It's very exaggerated. But it has the tilted head and jutting jaw. He mentions wrestling, Robbie Williams, JLS. All things Derek of today likes. He clearly knows what this character is and what sort of person he's mocking. He's been doing it for years. It makes all of his kind words about Derek meaningless and hollow.
He's such a liar and chancer. He spent years making fun of people like Derek and now he's getting all the praise for putting this character into the most contrived sympathetic situation ever of an old peoples home. What an absolute jerk.
I think people are reading too much into this now. Derek is a harmless middle-aged man who may or may not have learning difficulties and who volunteers in a residential home.
As for the series, some like it, some dont and some dont like Ricky Gervais so dislike it by default, which is a shame.
Any questions?
Yes. Why appear on the one hand to be disparaging to say the least of his separated-at-birth other Derek character, who equates to someone with f***ed up DNA and is someone to be despised, derided and jeered at then do a complete volte face on the same character?
Or Ricky himself is evolving? I don't understand your point. It's just words that don't really mean anything. The character evolving - how? Can you explain?
It's very exaggerated. But it has the tilted head and jutting jaw. He mentions wrestling, Robbie Williams, JLS. All things Derek of today likes. He clearly knows what this character is and what sort of person he's mocking. He's been doing it for years. It makes all of his kind words about Derek meaningless and hollow.
He's such a liar and chancer. He spent years making fun of people like Derek and now he's getting all the praise for putting this character into the most contrived sympathetic situation ever of an old peoples home. What an absolute jerk.
Plus, Fog should compare the autograph hunter character with the Derek portrayed in the pilot episode. Gervais has deliberately toned down certain aspects since the feedback he got from that pilot episode that pointed out the double standard.
Comments
I think we were told in the pilot that he worked there. But that could be as a volunteer or as a paid employee. What work he actually does is anyone's guess. I can't imagine Hannah giving him the responsibility of helping a resident use the toilet, or giving them a bath, or cleaning a room. He seems to need as much supervision as the elderly.
I can believe that. He felt Life's Too Short was judged too harshly before people had seen the series. The trouble is he's blind to fair criticism and resorts to the 'you just don't get it it' argument.
I also notice that unusually he put out a 'making of' episode before both series began. Almost as if he's trying to show people his heart is in the right place.
Indeed. He keeps saying he wishes people, himself included, would be more like Derek. I've yet to see anything that makes the character such an aspiration.
The comedy though is broad, juvenile, slapstick. It's not even subtle comedy. So for anyone to ask people don't focus on it is frustrating as it's such a jarring, in your face aspect of the show.
But I do realise this is considered a light drama by Gervais. But when you go through the episodes it's very joke heavy with little genuine drama. At the same time I get confused by scenes.
When Derek crawls out of the toilet after vomiting and gives the camera a glance, are we supposed to laugh or find it sad? Maybe sad. But then we have the old man coming in having wet himself and Kev being his boorish self, so it is a comedy scene.
You are right, I shouldn't be telling you what you mean. So what did you mean when you replied to my post with :rolleyes: :sleep: ?
Ricky Gervais - Science
Ricky Gervais Stephen Merchant comedy central advert
Fact.
i've already explained to you what i meant. and from your last few comments to me it proves i was right.
the links you provide are not fact of what you're suggesting. it only show's how you are interpreting it to fit in with your dislike of Ricky.
you don't appear to be adding to the coversation regarding the show. you're just using the topic to hurl abuse at ricky gervais. i find that quite sad.
That was the scene which really jarred for me in the current episode.
We are expected to take this as a mockumentary aren't we? In the same vein as The Office?
With all the looks to camera and instances where a character may react in a perhaps embarrassed way to what the camera caught, I took it that this is done in the mockumentary style. Is this correct?
Because in the final scene Hannah and Derek look at the camera a couple of times as they are sat on the toilet floor.
Then somebody walks in to the toilets and we see from an over the shoulder point of view from this new character at a different angle that there is no camera crew in there there at all.
We see the space that would be occupied by the camera but there's nothing there. Just the wall.
Maybe this was deliberate. But if so then why bother even trying to emulate the mockumentary style at all? It just really jarred me that in most scenes they try to make it look like an authentic fly on the wall documentary, then in a scene such as this they just break their own rules. It just makes to look messy and unsure of itself in regards to what it is or what it's trying to appear to be.
There is Derek talking to the camera then telling the granny to get out of the shot.
Dougie has his own little peices to camera when he is sat in his cupboard.
Hannah had a few looks to camera to indicate her thoughts.
Yet the rest is like the cameras aren't there at all.
I was trying to work out the same with Modern Family (maybe i'm putting too much thought into it
There are the obvious parts when the family members are talking directly to the camera. There are points in episodes where you can tell that it is supposed to be a fly on the wall scene. Then it just breaks out into a standard sitcom for a bit.
TV Tropes has a page about that kind of thing:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FauxDocumentary
I've seen 'Science' before but I forgot about that.
Good grief, I'd say that was pretty damning evidence. I hadn't even seen that second clip.
The first clip even describes the posture, and hair, and the character setup for Derek.
The second clip is pretty much an acting performance of Derek. Even down to some of the little mannerisms of Derek.
This is what passes as research for the character of Derek?
But his explanation? But Derek is 'nice' and 'kind'. Hmm, doesn't really cut it. It's clear what research he employed in order to depict Derek. His own pisstake on a type of person who he sees in a derogatory manner.
Yes, that second clip in itself is very telling I think.
He could have depicted Derek in a multitude of ways. But it appears to me now that his performance is based on what he already does to mock certain people.
You'd think he'd have the sense to distance his performance of Derek from the stereotype he had previously used which Derek is obviously based upon.
If Derek is a character based on his own life experiences many years ago, and he sees Derek as an endearing character, then why on earth in those clips did he use a prototype of Derek in a derogatory manner?
Perhaps strictly speaking maybe they aren't what you'd describe as fact if you wanted to be technical about it.
But after seeing the second clip especially I don't see how anyone could reasonably deny it.
:yawn:
Same facial expression, same hair, same mannerisms, dress style, same interests. I don't see how you can deny that this character is Gervais playing 'Derek'.
I can't do anymore but provide you with the evidence. You have your opinion.
How am I not adding to the conversation of the show when I'm discussing the motives and sincerity behind Derek by providing links that show Gervais using the character in a derogatory manner?
Gervais has defended this show by explaining that Derek isn't disabled. That he's a lovely, kind man who he wishes more people would be like. I'm happy to accept Derek isn't disabled, but for me Gervais is a liar when he talks fondly of this character. Or at least he has a lot of explaining to do with the above clips.
The guy who just is Derek in that Science clip, Ricky describes him as "the bane of my life" and "his DNA is a mess". What a nice way to talk about a man with possible learning difficulties. Clearly he had no compassion or qualms about making fun of those sorts of people then, despite them actually being fans of his. Now he expects everyone to think he actually adores people like that.
Ha, I just realised what you were talking about. That is odd. I was going to say is it a traditional drama/sitcom but with fourth wall breaking? The Faux Documentary link posted by catsitter makes more sense.
This was discussed at some length when the pilot went out.
Can you just confirm have you watched Science? He does a routine with an identical character to Derek and describes characters of his type as "a mess" and says he means "their DNA". He's quite vicious about people who display those type of social characteristics. Not only that but he's attacking them in the context of being his fans and autograph hunters.
I don't understand how anyone can either? Perhaps he is as confused about it as others are entitled to be.
As for the series, some like it, some dont and some dont like Ricky Gervais so dislike it by default, which is a shame.
Any questions?
I agree, it's a fairly unpleasant trip into Gervais's egocentric psyche, all Autograph Hunters are sad, hunchback simpletons with infected DNA.
OK, we can accept Comedic licence, but Jim Davidson gets a hard time when he employs Chalky White, a Black stereotype character, Gervais should be similarly chastised for his Mong/Derek one.
This second clip that was posted along with the Science clip is even more revealing...
Ricky Gervais Stephen Merchant comedy central advert
For all intents and purposes that is Derek.
I think that somebody would need to be very disingenuous to claim that the similarity is merely slight.
It's very exaggerated. But it has the tilted head and jutting jaw. He mentions wrestling, Robbie Williams, JLS. All things Derek of today likes. He clearly knows what this character is and what sort of person he's mocking. He's been doing it for years. It makes all of his kind words about Derek meaningless and hollow.
He's such a liar and chancer. He spent years making fun of people like Derek and now he's getting all the praise for putting this character into the most contrived sympathetic situation ever of an old peoples home. What an absolute jerk.
Yes. Why appear on the one hand to be disparaging to say the least of his separated-at-birth other Derek character, who equates to someone with f***ed up DNA and is someone to be despised, derided and jeered at then do a complete volte face on the same character?
I'm just asking.
Or Ricky himself is evolving? I don't understand your point. It's just words that don't really mean anything. The character evolving - how? Can you explain?
Plus, Fog should compare the autograph hunter character with the Derek portrayed in the pilot episode. Gervais has deliberately toned down certain aspects since the feedback he got from that pilot episode that pointed out the double standard.
It's like therapy for Ricky then?