Pretty disturbing one tonight, part of me wished we'd got the post apocalyptic loveliness we though we were getting in the first place. I kinda liked the direction of the episode before the twist, It still had some thought provoking themes in there.
As it was, the twist was shocking, and posed questions about mob justice.
However Brooker could've picked a somewhat more sympathy inducing lead protagonist than a child killer, though I understand the principle would've been the same whomever he had gone for. And I get that CB loves extremes in his work.
Surely someone guilty of assault, a petty thief maybe?
What about someone who was long term unemployed?
I know what you're saying, but I think that would have been setting it up to make it easier for himself as a writer to get the public to sympathize with the criminal.
I think it was a better idea to do what he did and test how it would work with someone who probably was guilty of murder for us to ask more challenging questions.
Of course if it was just a petty thief obviously it would come across as one sided. But a murderer? Then we are forced to look at the mob and ask ourselves would we still justify their attitudes and behaviour?
I'll wait for a synopsis of the episode and read up what happens after I turned it off. I "get" the idea behind it but it just became unwatchable for me personally.
Jesus wept. Did someone on this thread sit through that and actually come out the other end thinking it was advocating the torture of child killers? If they did it is this sort of brain dead idiot that makes this program such an essential bit of TV. But still kind of sad that a thinking human with eyes and a brain could miss the point so terribly. Scary.
I'm absolutely not speaking about anybody on this thread at all, but there will be people out there who watched this and will have just accepted this as entertainment on one level like a 'torture porn' horror film and completely missed every bit of subtext within it.
That's probably scarier than anything Charlie Broker could write as fiction.
I'll wait for a synopsis of the episode and read up what happens after I turned it off. I "get" the idea behind it but it just became unwatchable for me personally.
You really need to keep watching to the end to get the full impact.
I'll wait for a synopsis of the episode and read up what happens after I turned it off. I "get" the idea behind it but it just became unwatchable for me personally.
That surprises me! as a writer yourself I thought you would appreciate the script, I enjoyed it alot as it was thought provocative:)
You really need to keep watching to the end to get the full impact.
I really tried to stick with it, but the Victoria character's constant hysteria and crying just made it unwatchable. It's always been a bugbear of mine though, and this just ramped it up to 10
I really tried to stick with it, but the Victoria character's constant hysteria and crying just made it unwatchable. It's always been a bugbear of mine though, and this just ramped it up to 10
I really tried to stick with it, but the Victoria character's constant hysteria and crying just made it unwatchable. It's always been a bugbear of mine though, and this just ramped it up to 10.
It was grating. Usually I'd have thrown in the towel. Glad I didn't because the denouement was excellent.
This thread is a joke. No criticisms, alternative viewpoints or questions allowed. By two FMs who have been here for 5 minutes, no less. Perhaps Brooker should make a show about patronising pseudo intellectual wannabe tv critics.
What on earth are you talking about?
I've read quite a few criticisms and they haven't been disallowed at all.
Haven't seen any Black Mirror yet, are the stories all independent allowing me to catch up on series 2 before going back, or will I need to see series 1 first?
I think that's the point.
She is effectively innocent.
But if you think about it how many people would really care as long as they got their pound of flesh?
I think that was another point it touched on, how people can serve their time but still have to live with the stigma of their criminal past, even if they are capable of putting it behind them. It is relevant in the current context of people making facebook pages for campaigns to hunt down James Bulger's killers, even though one has apparently reformed.
So why does it make you so angry when other people don't find it perfect either?
Quite frankly I've seen masses of films / dramas with twist endings, and I can honestly say that I've never seen a single one where the twist hasn't rendered what came before it illogical or contrived in some way or another. Sometimes it's a minor thing, and sometimes it's a major show stopper. But there's always some flaw. You can't spend 45 minutes misdirecting an audience and not have to cheat slightly somewhere; it's the nature of the game. It would be nice to think Brooker is above all that, but he isn't. I happen to think that the point he was making about our need to see "justice" meted out could've worked better without the trickery; you disagree. Fine.
Some of us are trying :rolleyes:
Could you point out examples of what you would say were trickery?
Haven't seen any Black Mirror yet, are the stories all independent allowing me to catch up on series 2 before going back, or will I need to see series 1 first?
They are all one off episodes. However I do think episode 1 of each series can be viewed as related in terms of themes and subject matter, same for this episode and 15 Millions Merits. See my previous posts for my views on these parallels, if you'd like to read them.
Haven't seen any Black Mirror yet, are the stories all independent allowing me to catch up on series 2 before going back, or will I need to see series 1 first?
I don't like that we're suppose to symphatise with a child murderer
I think the details behind her crime were left to be quite ambiguous so we aren't quite sure of the circumstances behind it in determining how guilty or not she really was.
It was grating. Usually I'd have thrown in the towel. Glad I didn't because the denouement was excellent.
I have to agree with your comment, after 10 minutes I said to my husband " she's really annoying me with her whimpering/light weight attitude" luckily, he was then asleep so I carried on watching and I'm pleased that I did, people really need to watch the whole episode before passing judgement
They are all one off episodes. However I do think episode 1 of each series can be viewed as related in terms of themes and subject matter, same for this episode and 15 Millions Merits. See my previous posts for my views on these parallels, if you'd like to read them.
I think the details behind her crime were left to be quite ambiguous so we aren't quite sure of the circumstances behind it in determining how guilty or not she really was.
They did say that she said she was "under his spell" and didn't intervene to prevent the girl's torture however did film it and comment while filming. It's only the other people's assumptions she must have been involved that saw them decide to be actively involved in her torture as they assumed she was involved with the little girl's torture. The few flashbacks we did see suggested she was relatively kind to the girl so it's a case of her addled memories that we did see versus the opinions of the court based on the evidence that was mentioned in the last 3rd of the show. So again it was a matter of opinions superceding fact and the victim they could punish getting both barrels, as it were, because the apparent actual perpetrator hung himself while in custody. So apparently her crime was sitting by, filming, commenting and doing nothing and in turn her "audience" did the same at the park she was detained at for their amusement where she lived everyday the same way like a sadistic Groundhog Day.
Haven't seen any Black Mirror yet, are the stories all independent allowing me to catch up on series 2 before going back, or will I need to see series 1 first?
Yes, you can watch them in any order you like as they're all independent to each other.
I think that was another point it touched on, how people can serve their time but still have to live with the stigma of their criminal past, even if they are capable of putting it behind them. It is relevant in the current context of people making facebook pages for campaigns to hunt down James Bulger's killers, even though one has apparently reformed.
Good point. I'd wager that there will be a lot of people out there who don't particularly want prisoners to reform, because that would then make their hatred towards them unjustified.
They'd feel cheated that it isn't real justice and the only justice that they'd want is the satisfaction that they're punished for the rest of their life.
Rehabilitation to that section of people would be no good.
Problem is that if an individual gains self serving satisfaction from their constant suffering, how would it make them any better as people than the 'guilty'?
That was a very thought-provoking episode. Being a practical gal, I am wondering how they will keep her alive for long if she is living in that much terror and physical stress day after day. I can't imagine her system will cope for too long; I'm thinking of the stress on her heart, the lack of time or desire to eat, the lack of recuperation and rest and so on. Perhaps she'll be rotated with other prisoners, or perhaps it's only designed to last for a while and she'll go on to a more conventional punishment later - or even that this could be the warm-up to a death sentence.
The scene where she begged them to kill her and he replied "you always say that" really got to me. Perhaps one day they'll let it end - it comes to something when death is the kinder option. Or perhaps her sentence is to be literally scared to death? A chilling prospect.
Comments
When she was being brought out in that pope-mobile thing, it reminded me of those idiots who wait outside courts to hurl things at the prison vans.
I know what you're saying, but I think that would have been setting it up to make it easier for himself as a writer to get the public to sympathize with the criminal.
I think it was a better idea to do what he did and test how it would work with someone who probably was guilty of murder for us to ask more challenging questions.
Of course if it was just a petty thief obviously it would come across as one sided. But a murderer? Then we are forced to look at the mob and ask ourselves would we still justify their attitudes and behaviour?
I'm absolutely not speaking about anybody on this thread at all, but there will be people out there who watched this and will have just accepted this as entertainment on one level like a 'torture porn' horror film and completely missed every bit of subtext within it.
That's probably scarier than anything Charlie Broker could write as fiction.
You really need to keep watching to the end to get the full impact.
That surprises me! as a writer yourself I thought you would appreciate the script, I enjoyed it alot as it was thought provocative:)
I really tried to stick with it, but the Victoria character's constant hysteria and crying just made it unwatchable. It's always been a bugbear of mine though, and this just ramped it up to 10
As I said, I do "get" it and I really wanted to like it because I like Charlie Brooker and I've liked all of the Black Mirrors up until this one.
If it's repeated I might record it again and skip to the last part - maybe it won't be so bad doing it that way
Surely not worth turning the whole thing off
It was grating. Usually I'd have thrown in the towel. Glad I didn't because the denouement was excellent.
Considering how much I really can't stand that character trait in any kind of scripted story, I think I did pretty well lasting as long as I did !
What on earth are you talking about?
I've read quite a few criticisms and they haven't been disallowed at all.
I think that was another point it touched on, how people can serve their time but still have to live with the stigma of their criminal past, even if they are capable of putting it behind them. It is relevant in the current context of people making facebook pages for campaigns to hunt down James Bulger's killers, even though one has apparently reformed.
Could you point out examples of what you would say were trickery?
They are all one off episodes. However I do think episode 1 of each series can be viewed as related in terms of themes and subject matter, same for this episode and 15 Millions Merits. See my previous posts for my views on these parallels, if you'd like to read them.
All independent stories,
Watch em in any order you like...
I think the details behind her crime were left to be quite ambiguous so we aren't quite sure of the circumstances behind it in determining how guilty or not she really was.
I have to agree with your comment, after 10 minutes I said to my husband " she's really annoying me with her whimpering/light weight attitude" luckily, he was then asleep so I carried on watching and I'm pleased that I did, people really need to watch the whole episode before passing judgement
I'd watch this episode while it's only just aired.
One of the best as well IMO
They did say that she said she was "under his spell" and didn't intervene to prevent the girl's torture however did film it and comment while filming. It's only the other people's assumptions she must have been involved that saw them decide to be actively involved in her torture as they assumed she was involved with the little girl's torture. The few flashbacks we did see suggested she was relatively kind to the girl so it's a case of her addled memories that we did see versus the opinions of the court based on the evidence that was mentioned in the last 3rd of the show. So again it was a matter of opinions superceding fact and the victim they could punish getting both barrels, as it were, because the apparent actual perpetrator hung himself while in custody. So apparently her crime was sitting by, filming, commenting and doing nothing and in turn her "audience" did the same at the park she was detained at for their amusement where she lived everyday the same way like a sadistic Groundhog Day.
Here you go, Digital Sid...
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/search.php?searchid=1654606
Yes, you can watch them in any order you like as they're all independent to each other.
Good point. I'd wager that there will be a lot of people out there who don't particularly want prisoners to reform, because that would then make their hatred towards them unjustified.
They'd feel cheated that it isn't real justice and the only justice that they'd want is the satisfaction that they're punished for the rest of their life.
Rehabilitation to that section of people would be no good.
Problem is that if an individual gains self serving satisfaction from their constant suffering, how would it make them any better as people than the 'guilty'?
Yes I agree with the poster 'far2cool' above that I'd go for the one that's just aired so that you can join in the discussion in near realtime.:)
The scene where she begged them to kill her and he replied "you always say that" really got to me. Perhaps one day they'll let it end - it comes to something when death is the kinder option. Or perhaps her sentence is to be literally scared to death? A chilling prospect.