Aren't there reports of witnesses saying there was a period of non-stop shouting as well as screams from a woman in the period just up to the time of the incident? So, IF true, there's your "fit of rage" right there.
There are - in sworn statements from two separate witnesses.
But wasn't he already up, getting the fan in from the unlocked balcony??
In don't think any of us know the exact timeline involved.
But presumably it's possible she got up to go to the loo, whilst OP was in the bed. Her getting up disturbed and woke him without her realising, or him realising what woke him. He gets up to get the fan, without her realising because she is now in the bathroom. He hears a sound, and the rest we know.
If this throws up anything, it's why the balcony door was still open, if security is a major concern. But even that is inconclusive in and of itself - we're pretty thorough about checking doors are locked when we've gone to bed, but were still burgled one of the few times we left a door unlocked.
I get the feeling from this thread that some people feel that even if it had been an intruder in the bathroom he should not have shot him. I know if somebody decided to come into my house in the middle of the night I would not care what shape he was in when he went out again. I dont have a gun in the house because I have two young sons and would be scared of what would happen if they got access to it. If I did have a gun and there was somebody illegally entering my house in the middle of the night I would use it.
In don't think any of us know the exact timeline involved.
But presumably it's possible she got up to go to the loo, whilst OP was in the bed. Her getting up disturbed and woke him without her realising, or him realising what woke him. He gets up to get the fan, without her realising because she is now in the bathroom. He hears a sound, and the rest we know.
If this throws up anything, it's why the balcony door was still open, if security is a major concern. But even that is inconclusive in and of itself - we're pretty thorough about checking doors are locked when we've gone to bed, but were still burgled one of the few times we left a door unlocked.
I would still like to know where it has been said that the balcony door was unlocked.
I get the feeling from this thread that some people feel that even if it had been an intruder in the bathroom he should not have shot him. I know if somebody decided to come into my house in the middle of the night I would not care what shape he was in when he went out again. I dont have a gun in the house because I have two young sons and would be scared of what would happen if they got access to it. If I did have a gun and there was somebody illegally entering my house in the middle of the night I would use it.
I agree but it seems unrealistic to think someone would just blast a door, without trying to communicate verbally first.
I get the feeling from this thread that some people feel that even if it had been an intruder in the bathroom he should not have shot him. I know if somebody decided to come into my house in the middle of the night I would not care what shape he was in when he went out again. I dont have a gun in the house because I have two young sons and would be scared of what would happen if they got access to it. If I did have a gun and there was somebody illegally entering my house in the middle of the night I would use it.
Most laws only allow self defence based on reasonable force and or matching the threat against you. OP did not seem to ascertain whether or not there was an intruder or not let alone see what kind of danger there was. He seems to have just assumed! :mad: If people think what he did was ok, its basically saying anyone who gets scared that their about to be a victim of crime can kill someone because of it! :rolleyes:
So he should be found not guilty because of that?!
I don't accept that if you are saying that. He did not have to shoot and he chose to put himself right outside the bathroom door. He could and should have kept his distance, shouted out who's there, I've got a gun etc etc. I think most people would do something like that even in a situation where they might think they are being robbed.
I'm not saying he should be found guilty or not based on any single thing.
I'm saying that his version of events is, in the absence of conclusive forensic evidence to the contrary, a possibility.
Ultimately he did shoot and kill Reeva, so is unquestionably guilty of something.
In don't think any of us know the exact timeline involved.
But presumably it's possible she got up to go to the loo, whilst OP was in the bed. Her getting up disturbed and woke him without her realising, or him realising what woke him. He gets up to get the fan, without her realising because she is now in the bathroom. He hears a sound, and the rest we know.
If this throws up anything, it's why the balcony door was still open, if security is a major concern. But even that is inconclusive in and of itself - we're pretty thorough about checking doors are locked when we've gone to bed, but were still burgled one of the few times we left a door unlocked.
That's a whole load of two people not realising what the other is doing. As I said separately though, I still don't see how he couldn't have noticed, with enough light to see what he was doing out on the balcony, coming back in with the fan, closing the doors, blinds and curtains again to NOT notice his girlfriend was not in bed.
Pistorius's statement says that it was only when he got back to the bed and noticed that Reeva wasn't there that it occurred to him that it might have been her in the bathroom. How possible is it that she was shot three times without making any kind of sound (that he could hear) that indicated it was her - or even that it was a woman - in the toilet?
It is possible that the first bullet fired immediately rendered her unconscious. Or perhaps she was already unconscious, having collapsed in the toilet for some reason? Her collapsing might have been the noise that Pistorius thought was the intruder. Someone padding around for a quick trip to the loo in a tiled bathroom would not otherwise make much noise I would have thought.
If she had been sleepwalking, would she have been unlikely to wake up?
Indeed - especially since neighbours did hear a woman's screams.
From what I have read, this was an area where the was a high chance that an inturder would be armed.
If's, assumptions, thats what you keep on going on! South African law doesn't allow people to kill on a if/what,maybe, assumption basis and I was about to say I doubt most countries would allow such a thing but no they don't. Even the stand your ground law in some American states wouldn't back OP up in what he did.
So he should be found not guilty because of that?!
I don't accept that if you are saying that. He did not have to shoot and he chose to put himself right outside the bathroom door. He could and should have kept his distance, shouted out who's there, I've got a gun etc etc. I think most people would do something like that even in a situation where they might think they are being robbed.
Nobody can say how they might act. Sitting safe at the PC contemplating it is not to experience such a thing.
I would still like to know where it has been said that the balcony door was unlocked.
That was a reply to my post where I thought I read that, as you will have seen already because I replied to you as such. Possibly due to the wording of his statement that he "went out onto the balcony, brought the fan in, closed the doors, blinds and curtains." That might have implied that he was securing the area only at that point.
That was a reply to my post where I thought I read that, as you will have seen already because I replied to you as such. Possibly due to the wording of his statement that he "went out onto the balcony, brought the fan in, closed the doors, blinds and curtains." That might have implied that he was securing the area only at that point.
Nowhere in his statement does it say if the door was locked or unlocked before he went out to the balcony, yet a lot of people on here are asumuing that it was unlocked and using that to say that he wasnt too worried about inturders cause he left the balcony door unlocked
That's a whole load of two people not realising what the other is doing. As I said separately though, I still don't see how he couldn't have noticed, with enough light to see what he was doing out on the balcony, coming back in with the fan, closing the doors, blinds and curtains again to NOT notice his girlfriend was not in bed.
Only when it's written down I think.
The amount of light throughout is key.
It's possible he wouldn't have noticed moving towards the balcony, and just grabbed the fan, backed into the room, closed everything, after which not only would it have been completely dark, but the eyes would take a few moments to readjust to the darkness.
As I said separately though, I still don't see how he couldn't have noticed, with enough light to see what he was doing out on the balcony, coming back in with the fan, closing the doors, blinds and curtains again to NOT notice his girlfriend was not in bed.
Agree with this. Presumably he walked back into the bedroom facing the room and with his back to the balcony. There must have been some light entering from the blacony at this point. The bed was in clear view! Did he not notice she was not there?
The only explanation I can think of is that he walked backwards into the room from the balcony but why would someone holding a fan do that?
Did the police actually find the fan in the room later?
Nowhere in his statement does it say if the door was locked or unlocked before he went out to the balcony, yet a lot of people on here are asumuing that it was unlocked and using that to say that he wasnt too worried about inturders cause he left the balcony door unlocked
But there are two possible circumstances in which it happened.
The prosecution are arguing that he knew it was her he shot.
The defence are arguing that he did not realise he was shooting her.
It seems likely to conclude he shot Reeva because he was an aggressive dangerous person, because there's plenty of incidents reported where he's acted in an aggressive manner and considering the woman is now dead who was in his company for the night.
Nothing difficult there to be concluded.
Slightly off-topic: Do people usually go barmy in a four-month relationship?
I have no experience with violent jealous/possessive people, so I have no idea how it usually goes. Do they flare up violently within days or months of dating? How soon does a volatile relationship usually develop?
I suppose I'm struggling to accept that a person could throw away their international career, freedom and whatnot to murder a girl/boyfriend of four months in a fit of jealous rage. Admittedly, I also find it tough to believe that someone like Reeva would tolerate jealous rages from anyone. I can imagine her excusing his temper, because their relationship was new and blah blah, but only as long as it wasn't directed at her or other people, or when not frequent.
Comments
He is guilty of killing someone, by his own testimony.
There are - in sworn statements from two separate witnesses.
But he has killed Reeva
In don't think any of us know the exact timeline involved.
But presumably it's possible she got up to go to the loo, whilst OP was in the bed. Her getting up disturbed and woke him without her realising, or him realising what woke him. He gets up to get the fan, without her realising because she is now in the bathroom. He hears a sound, and the rest we know.
If this throws up anything, it's why the balcony door was still open, if security is a major concern. But even that is inconclusive in and of itself - we're pretty thorough about checking doors are locked when we've gone to bed, but were still burgled one of the few times we left a door unlocked.
Two seperate witnesses that were between 300 and 600 mts away from the appartment.
I would still like to know where it has been said that the balcony door was unlocked.
I agree but it seems unrealistic to think someone would just blast a door, without trying to communicate verbally first.
Most laws only allow self defence based on reasonable force and or matching the threat against you. OP did not seem to ascertain whether or not there was an intruder or not let alone see what kind of danger there was. He seems to have just assumed! :mad: If people think what he did was ok, its basically saying anyone who gets scared that their about to be a victim of crime can kill someone because of it! :rolleyes:
Err no, that can't be right!
I'm not saying he should be found guilty or not based on any single thing.
I'm saying that his version of events is, in the absence of conclusive forensic evidence to the contrary, a possibility.
Ultimately he did shoot and kill Reeva, so is unquestionably guilty of something.
From what I have read, this was an area where the was a high chance that an inturder would be armed.
My post above your reply covers this.
That's a whole load of two people not realising what the other is doing. As I said separately though, I still don't see how he couldn't have noticed, with enough light to see what he was doing out on the balcony, coming back in with the fan, closing the doors, blinds and curtains again to NOT notice his girlfriend was not in bed.
Yes, I know that.
But there are two possible circumstances in which it happened.
The prosecution are arguing that he knew it was her he shot.
The defence are arguing that he did not realise he was shooting her.
Indeed - especially since neighbours did hear a woman's screams.
If's, assumptions, thats what you keep on going on! South African law doesn't allow people to kill on a if/what,maybe, assumption basis and I was about to say I doubt most countries would allow such a thing but no they don't. Even the stand your ground law in some American states wouldn't back OP up in what he did.
Nobody can say how they might act. Sitting safe at the PC contemplating it is not to experience such a thing.
That was a reply to my post where I thought I read that, as you will have seen already because I replied to you as such. Possibly due to the wording of his statement that he "went out onto the balcony, brought the fan in, closed the doors, blinds and curtains." That might have implied that he was securing the area only at that point.
Actually, that's a good point. I had read it as the balcony door was open, and he got up to get the fan and lock the door.
But he may have unlocked the door to bring the fan in.
Trouble there is that it seems unlikely he would do that in the pitch dark.
Nowhere in his statement does it say if the door was locked or unlocked before he went out to the balcony, yet a lot of people on here are asumuing that it was unlocked and using that to say that he wasnt too worried about inturders cause he left the balcony door unlocked
Only when it's written down I think.
The amount of light throughout is key.
It's possible he wouldn't have noticed moving towards the balcony, and just grabbed the fan, backed into the room, closed everything, after which not only would it have been completely dark, but the eyes would take a few moments to readjust to the darkness.
Agree with this. Presumably he walked back into the bedroom facing the room and with his back to the balcony. There must have been some light entering from the blacony at this point. The bed was in clear view! Did he not notice she was not there?
The only explanation I can think of is that he walked backwards into the room from the balcony but why would someone holding a fan do that?
Did the police actually find the fan in the room later?
I just confirmed that didn't I?
It seems likely to conclude he shot Reeva because he was an aggressive dangerous person, because there's plenty of incidents reported where he's acted in an aggressive manner and considering the woman is now dead who was in his company for the night.
Nothing difficult there to be concluded.
I have no experience with violent jealous/possessive people, so I have no idea how it usually goes. Do they flare up violently within days or months of dating? How soon does a volatile relationship usually develop?
I suppose I'm struggling to accept that a person could throw away their international career, freedom and whatnot to murder a girl/boyfriend of four months in a fit of jealous rage. Admittedly, I also find it tough to believe that someone like Reeva would tolerate jealous rages from anyone. I can imagine her excusing his temper, because their relationship was new and blah blah, but only as long as it wasn't directed at her or other people, or when not frequent.