He said he has mobility on his stumps though, never did he say he dragged himself along. More sensational reporting and probably pretty easy to determine just how he gets around without his prosthetics on.
He did say this though in his affidavit.
I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance.
DP, I'm assuming you're ex police? If this event had happened in the UK would he have been granted bail, in your opinion? (sorry if you've already stated the answer elsewhere).
It's possible, but unusual for murder suspects to get bail.
Well there still hasn't been a dangerous burglar in the bathroom.
Every form of logic, and common sense suggests that Reeva was the obvious person to be there, and he had every chance to establish that.
His excuse is massively flawed, even if true, which many doubt.
There are more obvious reasons to what happened.
There has to be a murder conviction out of this, or it sets a precedent that anyone can shoot any noise they claim to hear.
As you should know, because I've 'met' you on threads similar to this before Mr P - sometimes the concept of Occam's Razor is accepted or denied at will.
The issue isn't whether there was or wasn't an actual real life intruder- the issue is whether he thought there was ... and whether thinking there was kickstarted his ingrained fear causing a set of events.
His excuse is either flawed because in the cold light of day, with logic and reason present and correct is is hard to understand how someone could act so illogically and unreasonably, because he is now trying to lay finer feelings over a period of gung-ho-ness where feelings didn't enter into the equation or it's flawed because its a construct.
I just hope there is enough actual physical evidence at trial to rule one or the other in or out.
One could also argue that he did put his legs on too.
@Gorbag: Thanks for the graphics. Very useful, as Gina said.
@Gina: Also, a/cdg to the graphics, he put on his legs BEFORE he turned on the lights? If so, he could see where his legs in "pitch black" were, but couldn't see that Reeva wasn't in bed as he got the gun from under his bed?
The bat/head thing is interesting. If true, I wonder if he's attacked her in the bathroom and the gun shots through the door was a desperate attempt to cover up what he did.
@Gorbag: Thanks for the graphics. Very useful, as Gina said.
@Gina: Also, a/cdg to the graphics, he put on his legs BEFORE he turned on the lights? If so, he could see where his legs in "pitch black" were, but couldn't see that Reeva wasn't in bed as he got the gun from under his bed?
Or am I missing something here?
I'd imagine that if you wore prosthetics, you'd keep them in the same place so could put them on without looking, in the same way some people can with slippers by the bed.
The context and circumstances are what were in place, not what he claims to have believed.
We never know for certain that many criminals lie, but they do.
The context, and circumstances are taken into account, and a verdict brought on the basis of that, not an assumption they are telling the truth, and unless you can prove otherwise, they are innocent.
He isn't innocent, and should be convicted of murder, even with his story.
As an ex-cop, I'm sure you know better than most that innocent people caught up in cases can also tweak the truth of events - especially if the way they acted and reacted seems illogical when the dust has settled.
As an ex-cop, I'm sure you know better than most that innocence people caught up in cases also lie - especially if the way they acted and reacted seems illogical when the dust has settled.
Especially when someone has a public image to maintain. Coming across as a selfish idiot can also be poisonous - hence he may have added the shout outs to make it seem he wasn't thinking purely about his own safety and his GF's hadn't crossed his mind.
or 3. A woman he'd been having a blazing row with all night, and had locked herself in the bathroom, and he wanted to shoot the lock off as she refused to come out.
or 4. This didn't actually occur, and the door shots were created after he'd killed her during a domestic to give an impression of "i thought there was a burglar".
Well, its on the assumption that he thought or knew one or other was in the toilet at the time he shot.
3. is pretty much like 1. Shooting the lock off because she wouldn't come out doesn't really sound much more plausible than shooting because you thought there was an armed intruder in there.
4. I think is pretty unlikely, as I think enough evidence of that would have surfaced by now.
I have read his autobiography in which he stated that until the age of about 12 he could move faster on his stumps than with ever changing prosthesis! Thereafter, increasing upper body weight meant his mobility on his own legs was massively decreased. He has skin grafts on his stumps to toughen them (for the endless friction with prosthesis), but is subject to a lot of problems with them. I actually find it quite difficult to believe, given how practiced he is at getting them on, and how important it is to him as an athlete to reduce the likelihood of injury to his stumps, that he wouldn't routinely put on his legs even to go out onto a balcony to bring in a fan.
I'd imagine that if you wore prosthetics, you'd keep them in the same place so could put them on without looking, in the same way some people can with slippers by the bed.
Well, its on the assumption that he thought or knew one or other was in the toilet at the time he shot.
3. is pretty much like 1. Shooting the lock off because she wouldn't come out doesn't really sound much more plausible than shooting because you thought there was an armed intruder in there.
4. I think is pretty unlikely, as I think enough evidence of that would have surfaced by now.
A man trying to break down a toilet door during a domestic doesn't sound plausible? I bet it happens many times a night in the UK alone.
As for 4, that was just based on the neighbour's limited testimony that we've heard so far (obviously we don't know anything like their full story yet) that there were two "shooting events" 17 minutes apart.
I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance.
I thought that was more in terms of wanting to keep an eye on the door. Pretty easy to find out the mobility he has without his prosthetics, guess we'll have to wait until the trial to find out though
1. He went from the balcony to the bathroom, getting the gun on the way.
2. He went to the bathroom, heard a noise, returned to the bedroom to get the gun, and then went back to the bathroom.
Which was it?
The first:
Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps. I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on. I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.
I thought that was more in terms of wanting to keep an eye on the door. Pretty easy to find out the mobility he has without his prosthetics, guess we'll have to wait until the trial to find out though
Well i would guess not, as he stated he was without his legs.
Thanks Bella. Heartbreaking for Reeva's friends and family.
Interesting the the Sports Award dinner that a quote from Reeva (he treated me like gold) has been used to show how happy they were was actually their first date
I have read his autobiography in which he stated that until the age of about 12 he could move faster on his stumps than with ever changing prosthesis! Thereafter, increasing upper body weight meant his mobility on his own legs was massively decreased. He has skin grafts on his stumps to toughen them (for the endless friction with prosthesis), but is subject to a lot of problems with them. I actually find it quite difficult to believe, given how practiced he is at getting them on, and how important it is to him as an athlete to reduce the likelihood of injury to his stumps, that he wouldn't routinely put on his legs even to go out onto a balcony to bring in a fan.
Comments
He did say this though in his affidavit.
I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance.
Very Interesting Bella. Thanks for that.
It's possible, but unusual for murder suspects to get bail.
I think the defence would apply in this case.
Hard to predict such things accurately.
I'd love to know how he got a black eye.
As you should know, because I've 'met' you on threads similar to this before Mr P - sometimes the concept of Occam's Razor is accepted or denied at will.
The issue isn't whether there was or wasn't an actual real life intruder- the issue is whether he thought there was ... and whether thinking there was kickstarted his ingrained fear causing a set of events.
His excuse is either flawed because in the cold light of day, with logic and reason present and correct is is hard to understand how someone could act so illogically and unreasonably, because he is now trying to lay finer feelings over a period of gung-ho-ness where feelings didn't enter into the equation or it's flawed because its a construct.
I just hope there is enough actual physical evidence at trial to rule one or the other in or out.
Ok, thanks for that.
@Gorbag: Thanks for the graphics. Very useful, as Gina said.
@Gina: Also, a/cdg to the graphics, he put on his legs BEFORE he turned on the lights? If so, he could see where his legs in "pitch black" were, but couldn't see that Reeva wasn't in bed as he got the gun from under his bed?
Or am I missing something here?
Given that he has metal legs and he is so well known, I doubt if he could get past any airport security without everyone knowing it is him.
I'd imagine that if you wore prosthetics, you'd keep them in the same place so could put them on without looking, in the same way some people can with slippers by the bed.
As an ex-cop, I'm sure you know better than most that innocent people caught up in cases can also tweak the truth of events - especially if the way they acted and reacted seems illogical when the dust has settled.
Especially when someone has a public image to maintain. Coming across as a selfish idiot can also be poisonous - hence he may have added the shout outs to make it seem he wasn't thinking purely about his own safety and his GF's hadn't crossed his mind.
Well, its on the assumption that he thought or knew one or other was in the toilet at the time he shot.
3. is pretty much like 1. Shooting the lock off because she wouldn't come out doesn't really sound much more plausible than shooting because you thought there was an armed intruder in there.
4. I think is pretty unlikely, as I think enough evidence of that would have surfaced by now.
Good Lord. Oscars brother is also facing a charge ?
There seem to be conflicting reports:
1. He went from the balcony to the bathroom, getting the gun on the way.
2. He went to the bathroom, heard a noise, returned to the bedroom to get the gun, and then went back to the bathroom.
Which was it?
@Nihonga I would have thought the same as Poot.
A man trying to break down a toilet door during a domestic doesn't sound plausible? I bet it happens many times a night in the UK alone.
As for 4, that was just based on the neighbour's limited testimony that we've heard so far (obviously we don't know anything like their full story yet) that there were two "shooting events" 17 minutes apart.
I thought that was more in terms of wanting to keep an eye on the door. Pretty easy to find out the mobility he has without his prosthetics, guess we'll have to wait until the trial to find out though
According to his affidavit - the first.
The first:
Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps. I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on. I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.
Well i would guess not, as he stated he was without his legs.
Thanks Bella. Heartbreaking for Reeva's friends and family.
Interesting the the Sports Award dinner that a quote from Reeva (he treated me like gold) has been used to show how happy they were was actually their first date
Thanks for that info and I agree with you.