I don't agree. If the OP is entitled to the money, then what does it matter exactly when the appointment is?
If anyone else owed you a cheque and you couldn't make the agreed time to pick it up for any reason, would they be entitled to tear it up?
When I worked in a UBO (summer '77) the assumption was that if you didn't turn up you were working. If you turned up the following day you were interviewed and probably lost one day of dole but your record would be marked. Sometimes people would be investigated and given home visits to check what they were doing during the week.
I suffer from psychosis and have just come off ESA, I can be a bit forgetful at times so I thought I was relying on the text messages to remind me. It was for an ordinary sign on. I'll apply for a hardship loan although I guess until then I'll just have to suck it up.
The sanction period seems too long just for failing to attend a routine signing on appointment. I would ask the Job Centre for further information about the decision and then consider lodging an appeal. The JC should have sent you a letter anyway detailing the reason for your benefit stopping and you have a month from the date on that letter within which to appeal. You may want to go to a CAB or advice centre for some help with this.
You may be able to show good cause for failure to attend the appointment based on the state of your mental health . Clearly your psychosis may cause difficulty with remembering things, but bear in mind that if you give the impression that you may not be able to look for work you may be kicked off JSA and would then have to go back onto ESA.
I don't know the circumstances which led to you moving from ESA to JSA but if you think that you are consistently going to have problems signing on or satisfying your Job Seekers Agreement because of your health condition you may want to talk to your GP and think about going back onto ESA. As I say I don't know why you came off ESA in the first place so I don't know whether this would be feasible or not.
I don't agree. If the OP is entitled to the money, then what does it matter exactly when the appointment is?
If anyone else owed you a cheque and you couldn't make the agreed time to pick it up for any reason, would they be entitled to tear it up?
The purpose of the appointment isn't to hand over the dosh. But even if it was - if someone told me I could have a cheque if I turned up at 9am on Monday, but that I wouldn't get it if I didn't. Then I'd turn up at 9am on Monday. It really is that simple.
Frankly remembering an appointment that is that important is something I'd expect any responsible adult to be able to do.
The purpose of the appointment isn't to hand over the dosh. But even if it was - if someone told me I could have a cheque if I turned up at 9am on Monday, but that I wouldn't get it if I didn't. Then I'd turn up at 9am on Monday. It really is that simple.
You make it sound as though the money was a gift granted at somebody's whim. These are funds that someone is legally entitled to and that come out of a welfare system that is funded/will be funded by people like the OP.
Frankly remembering an appointment that is that important is something I'd expect any responsible adult to be able to do.
People do forget things. Being penalised by perhaps one day's money is one thing, but to lose a whole months' income? Perhaps the job centres have been using advisors from Ryanair.
You make it sound as though the money was a gift granted at somebody's whim. These are funds that someone is legally entitled to and that come out of a welfare system that is funded/will be funded by people like the OP.
People do forget things. Being penalised by perhaps one day's money is one thing, but to lose a whole months' income? Perhaps the job centres have been using advisors from Ryanair.
EXACTLY - it isn't a gift. And the recipient also has obligations. One of which (not a particularly onerous one) is to attend a meeting at a specific time. People do forget things - but the more important the 'thing' the more responsibility each of us has to remember it.
Jobcentres are overly keen to meet their sanctions targets. It is one thing to forget to sign on - and a sanction may be expected. However, a friend of mine was placed on a training course by his Jobcentre. When he explained he would be required to sign on one of the course days, he was told not to worry but attend the course and the Jobcentre would phone him instead. They didn't.
He then found they had sanctioned him for failing to sign on and he would have to make a new claim. I had to sub him for over 2 weeks just so he could eat. He wrote a letter of complaint about his treatment over 2 weeks ago - and has not yet received a reply!
I was quite suprised how harsh things had gotten as my friend went for their first sign on the other day and they had applied for three jobs both weeks and done other activities, but because they hadnt done this UJM thing 5 times a week the adviser said he could be sanctioned in the future.
When i used to work at the Jobcentre if you had applied for one job and looked in the papers and done other things it wasnt an issue, but they are really pushing this UJM, which is hard as they dont have internet access.
He was tols he can get on free at the library if he presents his Jobseekers card but i feel thats wrong as library staff are not bound by confidentiality and who wants everyone knowing they sign on especially atm with everyone being a benefit scrounger and not just down on their luck
OP if you have failed to turn up for an arranged appointment that you have been told about then unfortunately you will be sanctioned and nothing can be done about it unless you have a really good reason like illness ect.
I had my claim sanctioned last year for missing appointments at Triage the best thing about it was as far as I knew I hadn't missed any appointments as I received no letters or calls about them, when I contacted Triage about it it turned out the letters were sent out but to the wrong address so I won my appeal due to this.
I don't agree. If the OP is entitled to the money, then what does it matter exactly when the appointment is?
If anyone else owed you a cheque and you couldn't make the agreed time to pick it up for any reason, would they be entitled to tear it up?
What??? It matters because there are queues of other people waiting to be seen. It also matters because if people aren't turning up for appointments, its likely they are off out at their job and claiming as an extra little income for themselves.
OP, perhaps you will join the adult world now and realise you have to take responsibility for yourself and no one is going to pay for you unless you make the effort.
They're stopping my money for an entire month because I missed one lousy appointment. I mean I can understand for a week or 2 but I can't afford to go a whole month without money when I have bills to pay.
It was my first claim aswell, and when I realised I missed it I rang up 9.00 sharp the next morning and told them. The lady there said they'd probably go in my favour as it was my first claim (for a couple of years anyway).
Do they expect me to live off rice and water? I'm so peed off right now. :mad::mad::mad:
They're stopping my money for an entire month because I missed one lousy appointment. I mean I can understand for a week or 2 but I can't afford to go a whole month without money when I have bills to pay.
It was my first claim aswell, and when I realised I missed it I rang up 9.00 sharp the next morning and told them. The lady there said they'd probably go in my favour as it was my first claim (for a couple of years anyway).
Do they expect me to live off rice and water? I'm so peed off right now. :mad::mad::mad:
Good luck with your appeal. However, please note that, due to the new Sanctions Regime in place, if you do not overturn the Sanction, and have another one within a specified period, then the next Sanction Doubt will lead to a more severe financial penalty.
To be fair to the OP, we know nothing of her personal circumstances or the reasons that led to her missing the appointment. There may be extenuating circumstances which could amount to good cause in order for the decision to be overturned. Alternatively, she could have simply forgot, which isn't going to amount to good cause generally speaking. The point is that it's easy to make snap judgements without knowing the full story.
Obviously the adjudication officers thought they had good reason to sanction money, it isn't the jobcentre's decision to stop money, it is down to adjudication officers. I expect the O had chance to give her reasons, as said previously, forgetting is not good enough reason
They seem to forget this isn't pocket money to spend on what you like its for food,rent,bills etc which if not paid you are screwed. I hate this country. And OP if you do problems id suggest definitely masking sure you write your appointment down in your phone and making sure your appointment card is near you at all times so you donrt forget.
Out of interest, if someone's in something like St John Ambulance - and they'll be at a duty at the usual sign-on time, are they able to negotiate going in early to sign as I remember doing so back in the 90s when I was out of work - and was on duty at the Radio 1 Roadshows in Exmouth?
Or am I harking back to a time when the Jobcentre WAS there to help people?
Then again - as I went in with in their terms "massive evidence of jobsearch" - consisting of a lever arch file with all my active and awaiting-reply applications, as well as the jobhunt log?
Comments
I went a bit OTT perhaps but can you blame me? No money for a month. I've calmed down a bit now anyway.
When I worked in a UBO (summer '77) the assumption was that if you didn't turn up you were working. If you turned up the following day you were interviewed and probably lost one day of dole but your record would be marked. Sometimes people would be investigated and given home visits to check what they were doing during the week.
That's a cracker
Sorry, everyone can afford a diary or note pad. Once you start work, you're the one making a note of what your hours are.
The sanction period seems too long just for failing to attend a routine signing on appointment. I would ask the Job Centre for further information about the decision and then consider lodging an appeal. The JC should have sent you a letter anyway detailing the reason for your benefit stopping and you have a month from the date on that letter within which to appeal. You may want to go to a CAB or advice centre for some help with this.
You may be able to show good cause for failure to attend the appointment based on the state of your mental health . Clearly your psychosis may cause difficulty with remembering things, but bear in mind that if you give the impression that you may not be able to look for work you may be kicked off JSA and would then have to go back onto ESA.
I don't know the circumstances which led to you moving from ESA to JSA but if you think that you are consistently going to have problems signing on or satisfying your Job Seekers Agreement because of your health condition you may want to talk to your GP and think about going back onto ESA. As I say I don't know why you came off ESA in the first place so I don't know whether this would be feasible or not.
This is all Iain Duncan Smiths fault . He wants to take your money and leave you on bread an water. The man is a halfwit .
The purpose of the appointment isn't to hand over the dosh. But even if it was - if someone told me I could have a cheque if I turned up at 9am on Monday, but that I wouldn't get it if I didn't. Then I'd turn up at 9am on Monday. It really is that simple.
Frankly remembering an appointment that is that important is something I'd expect any responsible adult to be able to do.
You make it sound as though the money was a gift granted at somebody's whim. These are funds that someone is legally entitled to and that come out of a welfare system that is funded/will be funded by people like the OP.
People do forget things. Being penalised by perhaps one day's money is one thing, but to lose a whole months' income? Perhaps the job centres have been using advisors from Ryanair.
EXACTLY - it isn't a gift. And the recipient also has obligations. One of which (not a particularly onerous one) is to attend a meeting at a specific time. People do forget things - but the more important the 'thing' the more responsibility each of us has to remember it.
He then found they had sanctioned him for failing to sign on and he would have to make a new claim. I had to sub him for over 2 weeks just so he could eat. He wrote a letter of complaint about his treatment over 2 weeks ago - and has not yet received a reply!
When i used to work at the Jobcentre if you had applied for one job and looked in the papers and done other things it wasnt an issue, but they are really pushing this UJM, which is hard as they dont have internet access.
He was tols he can get on free at the library if he presents his Jobseekers card but i feel thats wrong as library staff are not bound by confidentiality and who wants everyone knowing they sign on especially atm with everyone being a benefit scrounger and not just down on their luck
I had my claim sanctioned last year for missing appointments at Triage the best thing about it was as far as I knew I hadn't missed any appointments as I received no letters or calls about them, when I contacted Triage about it it turned out the letters were sent out but to the wrong address so I won my appeal due to this.
What??? It matters because there are queues of other people waiting to be seen. It also matters because if people aren't turning up for appointments, its likely they are off out at their job and claiming as an extra little income for themselves.
OP, perhaps you will join the adult world now and realise you have to take responsibility for yourself and no one is going to pay for you unless you make the effort.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/jsa-sanction-changes/
I suspect that JC staff have very little discretion now, and just have to do what it says.
Soup kitchen and crisis loan?
They can not be so strict and give the person a chance.
Thanks for the info, I didn't realise you couldn't apply for a Crisis Loan if you have been sanctioned.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/jsa-sanction-changes/
Obviously the adjudication officers thought they had good reason to sanction money, it isn't the jobcentre's decision to stop money, it is down to adjudication officers. I expect the O had chance to give her reasons, as said previously, forgetting is not good enough reason
Or am I harking back to a time when the Jobcentre WAS there to help people?
Then again - as I went in with in their terms "massive evidence of jobsearch" - consisting of a lever arch file with all my active and awaiting-reply applications, as well as the jobhunt log?
A chance for what?