Many carers are on full benefits such as income support, and carers allowance is deducted from that so in effect we get nothing for caring for our disabled family members.
Why can you only dream of earning £500 a week, what's stopping you educating or organizing yourself into a higher paid job?
Because life is expensive especially education and training. Great if you have the money, a bugger if you don't.
I was looking at a family history/tree course. That's good it's certificated level 3 (A Level) andit's a home study online course, that will make it cheap to do. It cost £330. If a course that is basically a general interest unlikely to lead to a job cost that kind of money how much would really good courses and training cost?
I've seen courses that run into thousands and just walked away as I don't have that kind of money and I'm not prepared to get myself into debt on the off chance I manage to get a job and be able to pay a loan off that in the meantime is making my life worse as I've less to live on in the interim.
Because life is expensive especially education and training. Great if you have the money, a bugger if you don't.
I was looking at a family history/tree course. That's good it's certificated level 3 (A Level) andit's a home study online course, that will make it cheap to do. It cost £330. If a course that is basically a general interest unlikely to lead to a job cost that kind of money how much would really good courses and training cost?
I've seen courses that run into thousands and just walked away as I don't have that kind of money and I'm not prepared to get myself into debt on the off chance I manage to get a job and be able to pay a loan off that in the meantime is making my life worse as I've less to live on in the interim.
I'm not sure what your circumstances are but bedsit bob is working and on low wages. You do raise an interesting point about the cost of education and that surely applies to both those on low wages and those on benefits.....how do you improve your lot if you have no money.
I'm only 24 and earn 15000 a year before tax. This equates to 1100 take home after. I get commission but it's a couple of hundred a month.
Now 500 a week equates to 2250 a month in the pocket of claimants pockets. A lot more than I am on!
I can't get why they are complaining! It's nearly double my money and they don't even do any work for it!
It's my hard earned cash going in their back pockets!
This attitude of living off the state saddens me. Get up and do some work!!
Another , well thought out , in depth post, that considers all the possibilities and circumstances...before leaping to a knee jerk reaction....
Part of the problem with our attitudes towards benefit money etc. seems to be "earnings envy" - i.e. if I earn less than £500 a week then why should people who don't work get that much money?
Well, if you're not happy with earning less than £500 a week then go and get a job which earns you more. That's the same attitude you hear from people towards benefit claimants isn't it? Just go out and get a job and stop sponging off the State.
The point is, whether you're working or looking for work it isn't that easy to get yourself into a comfortable earnings bracket. And that's not the fault of the poor, the low paid and the jobless. That's the fault of governments and businesses who couldn't care less about the majority of us but who only want to ensure they're earning their own six figure salaries, who are far too eager for quick short term profits to line their own pockets and have no interest in long term investments such as training schemes, apprenticeships etc.
We have an education system which rewards everyone for being educated to a lower standard than many other countries in the developed world which makes us less competitive in a global marketplace but that's fine for big business because they can simply outsource much of their work to China or India where they can legally pay their workforce a fraction of what they would pay a UK-based workforce. Lots of profits for them and their shareholders and millions of unemployed people in Britain.
And meanwhile no-one seems to care about the exponential rise in house prices which have effectively taken half the population out of the housing market or struggling to pay enormous mortgage or rent payments to greedy banks and property owners, but that's OK because if people are struggling to make ends meet then they'll need to buy things on credit...which means even more money for banks to grab.
And meanwhile the wealthy, already laughing in our faces, can enjoy their earnings without even paying any tax on their millions because there exist perfectly legal loopholes for them to avoid paying tax.
And we're told by the news media and the politicians that the people we should be directing our anger and frustration at are the poor and unemployed and disabled. That's just sick. Come on, wake up people and realise just who it is that is really f***ing up the country. Not the minority of benefit claimants who are costing the taxpayer pennies for their "lazy" lifestyles and not the immigrants who are apparently getting free houses the minute they climb off the back of a lorry in Dover. The ones responsible are the ones making billions in profit off our misery.
I'm not sure what your circumstances are but bedsit bob is working and on low wages. You do raise an interesting point about the cost of education and that surely applies to both those on low wages and those on benefits.....how do you improve your lot if you have no money.
It's not impossible for bedsit Bob, but it isn't as easy as it appears or is made to appear.
I'm allowed to do "permitted work" and earn a small amount of money and it odesn't affect my benefit. Great that little bit I can afford to save and pay for a course. However the money I earn will affect my housing benefit. I get the first £5 to keep (great) and then my housing benefit goes down by 91p for every £1 that I earn. I work 10 hours (allowed) I earn £70 (allowed) I get in my pocket £ £10.85
To do that pointless family tree course at £330 would take me 3 years and 4 months to save the money to pay for it.
Result = a person on benefits only may (depending on how much they get) have to save years to get a chance at a qualification to improve their chances.
My highest qualification is GCSE Grade A English. I would like to get an A level but the course is £567. I want to get the A level to improve my prosects of gaining employment, but I can't afford to do the course unless I get a job. Once I get the job, I no longer need the qualification anyway.
This is based on me, a guy aged 48 who hits retirement age in about 18 years unless the retirement age goes up. Obviously younger people have more time do course and training to get better paid jobs and push through glass ceilings.
I to would like to be earning £500 per week and would be prepared to do education and train for it, but realistically time is against me. It's not impossible but it will be hard especially as I get older and my "employment time" goes down the longer the training and courses are.
There is something called an 24+ Advanced Learning Loan that I have recently heard about for courses starting in September that I am looking into but have a bad feeling that it's the usual, if you are a student you aren't allowed benefits as you aren't looking for work blah blah blah but you can do job club and be patronised instead scenario.
More and more access to education and training is down to fitting in a criteria (some of which is mindblowingly stupid) just to get it free or heavily subsidised and thus affordable.
I do any course I can get that is free regardless of how crap it may be to get another certificate and sometimes a qualification to put on a CV. You do the "it all adds up to knowledge and learning skills cobblers" he same as doing voluntary work, but they rarely lead to jobs because you fail in the "essential" criteria for a job and pretty much all free courses are Level 2 (GCSE) courses and not the more necessary level 3 (A level) courses.
I'm applying for a job that through doing lots of the free low grade courses and voluntary work for practical experince of a vague type of thing that they are looking for I have all the "desirable" bits and 99% of the "essential" stuff.
The one bit missing is it says needs a driving licence and I can't drive. I'm hoping to bluff it or that the driving licence bit is standard on all their applications and it's actually not necessary or can be worked around in some way and verything will work in my favour. Probably not, but worth a try.
The OP seems to think that everyone on benefits is in that position through choice, sitting back and laughing while hoovering up his hard earned cash. The government having done a great job in getting people on side for benefit cuts with their "closed blinds" philosophy. People need to stop listening to the propaganda and actually see that things are not that cut and dried. Yes there are some people taking a lot out while putting nothing in but that is not everybody. Most people want to work and, in my opinion, the conservatives deliberate attempts at stigmatizing and alienating the unemployed and disabled to push through cuts is shameful. They want to see more disabled people at work but shut down Remploy? They want to see less people claiming benefits while cutting thousands of jobs? They've put more people on the dole but want to cut the benefits bill, so how do they do it? Get the average Joe to despise everyone on benefits, make the cuts, and fool people into supporting them.
Some of these people will be severely disabled and that money does not all go in their pocket, most of it will be rent and council tax benefits. Don't judge everybody as lazy scroungers, as much as the current government wants us to.
Same old argument trotted out over and over again, YES, we know some people are severely disabled, and, YES they need all the help they can get. Contrary to usual left wing scaremongering tactics I don't think the benefit cuts are aimed at all the jobless, just those who refuse to find work.
And to be honest the number of people convicted of benefit fraud is staggering, equating to some :eek::eek:£3.4Bn in 2012.:eek::eek:
Only a completely irresponsible (Labour), government, led by an incompetent Prime Minister (Tony Blair / Gordon Brown) would allow that level of fraud to go unchallenged.
If you have a problem with the way the benefit cuts are being handled, blame those claiming it who don't deserve it.
Really ?
Sounds more than enough to me. That's £1300 a month after the rent has been paid. We have 2 children, I work part time, my husband works full time and after the mortgage is paid we have around £800 left to pay bills and feed and clothe us and nobody ever goes without.
Same old argument trotted out over and over again, YES, we know some people are severely disabled, and, YES they need all the help they can get. Contrary to usual left wing scaremongering tactics I don't think the benefit cuts are aimed at all the jobless, just those who refuse to find work.
Same old argument trotted out over and over again, YES, we know some people are severely disabled, and, YES they need all the help they can get. Contrary to usual left wing scaremongering tactics I don't think the benefit cuts are aimed at all the jobless, just those who refuse to find work.
And to be honest the number of people convicted of benefit fraud is staggering, equating to some :eek::eek:£3.4Bn in 2012.:eek::eek:
Only a completely irresponsible (Labour), government, led by an incompetent Prime Minister (Tony Blair / Gordon Brown) would allow that level of fraud to go unchallenged.
If you have a problem with the way the benefit cuts are being handled, blame those claiming it who don't deserve it.
Where did that figure come from? Just done a quick google and that tells me your 'facts' are completely fabricated.
Same old argument trotted out over and over again, YES, we know some people are severely disabled, and, YES they need all the help they can get. Contrary to usual left wing scaremongering tactics I don't think the benefit cuts are aimed at all the jobless, just those who refuse to find work.
And to be honest the number of people convicted of benefit fraud is staggering, equating to some :eek::eek:£3.4Bn in 2012.:eek::eek:
I'm not saying we should forget about benefit fraud - we all need to avoid wasting public money - but the government knows full well where it can claw back huge sums of money but doesn't. Tax avoidance is only the tip of the iceberg.
Same old argument trotted out over and over again, YES, we know some people are severely disabled, and, YES they need all the help they can get. Contrary to usual left wing scaremongering tactics I don't think the benefit cuts are aimed at all the jobless, just those who refuse to find work.
And to be honest the number of people convicted of benefit fraud is staggering, equating to some :eek::eek:£3.4Bn in 2012.:eek::eek:
Only a completely irresponsible (Labour), government, led by an incompetent Prime Minister (Tony Blair / Gordon Brown) would allow that level of fraud to go unchallenged.
If you have a problem with the way the benefit cuts are being handled, blame those claiming it who don't deserve it.
Everyone is being targeted, unemployed, sick, disabled, low paid workers
Same old argument trotted out over and over again, YES, we know some people are severely disabled, and, YES they need all the help they can get. Contrary to usual left wing scaremongering tactics I don't think the benefit cuts are aimed at all the jobless, just those who refuse to find work.
And to be honest the number of people convicted of benefit fraud is staggering, equating to some :eek::eek:£3.4Bn in 2012.:eek::eek:
Only a completely irresponsible (Labour), government, led by an incompetent Prime Minister (Tony Blair / Gordon Brown) would allow that level of fraud to go unchallenged.
If you have a problem with the way the benefit cuts are being handled, blame those claiming it who don't deserve it.
what have benefit cuts got to do with fraud? Unless they are clawing back money lost in fraudulent claims through those who stick to the rules. Yes, root out the fraudsters but don't punish the innocent. Also, I think your figures are a bit off.
Because life is expensive especially education and training. Great if you have the money, a bugger if you don't.
I was looking at a family history/tree course. That's good it's certificated level 3 (A Level) andit's a home study online course, that will make it cheap to do. It cost £330. If a course that is basically a general interest unlikely to lead to a job cost that kind of money how much would really good courses and training cost?
I've seen courses that run into thousands and just walked away as I don't have that kind of money and I'm not prepared to get myself into debt on the off chance I manage to get a job and be able to pay a loan off that in the meantime is making my life worse as I've less to live on in the interim.
You should ring the Open University, I know that in Northern Ireland if you are on jobseekers you get a grant to study for your degree with them, not sure what the situation is in England but i'm sure the fees would be massively reduced and obviously you'd get your student loan etc.
If it makes you more likely to get into a comfortable position it is worth it.
I'm not sure what your circumstances are but bedsit bob is working and on low wages. You do raise an interesting point about the cost of education and that surely applies to both those on low wages and those on benefits.....how do you improve your lot if you have no money.
You don't have to have further education to better your career
I'm not saying we should forget about benefit fraud - we all need to avoid wasting public money - but the government knows full well where it can claw back huge sums of money but doesn't. Tax avoidance is only the tip of the iceberg.
Are you referring to legal tax avoidance or illegal tax evasion
You don't have to have further education to better your career
No but in the context of the post I was responding to it might have helped. Bedsit bob compained of low wages and the futility of working if the pay was just above or lower than those on benefit (assuming they have disability premiums). The route off benefits and the route into higher paid jobs must be similar?
Comments
Because life is expensive especially education and training. Great if you have the money, a bugger if you don't.
I was looking at a family history/tree course. That's good it's certificated level 3 (A Level) andit's a home study online course, that will make it cheap to do. It cost £330. If a course that is basically a general interest unlikely to lead to a job cost that kind of money how much would really good courses and training cost?
I've seen courses that run into thousands and just walked away as I don't have that kind of money and I'm not prepared to get myself into debt on the off chance I manage to get a job and be able to pay a loan off that in the meantime is making my life worse as I've less to live on in the interim.
I'm not sure what your circumstances are but bedsit bob is working and on low wages. You do raise an interesting point about the cost of education and that surely applies to both those on low wages and those on benefits.....how do you improve your lot if you have no money.
Well, if you're not happy with earning less than £500 a week then go and get a job which earns you more. That's the same attitude you hear from people towards benefit claimants isn't it? Just go out and get a job and stop sponging off the State.
The point is, whether you're working or looking for work it isn't that easy to get yourself into a comfortable earnings bracket. And that's not the fault of the poor, the low paid and the jobless. That's the fault of governments and businesses who couldn't care less about the majority of us but who only want to ensure they're earning their own six figure salaries, who are far too eager for quick short term profits to line their own pockets and have no interest in long term investments such as training schemes, apprenticeships etc.
We have an education system which rewards everyone for being educated to a lower standard than many other countries in the developed world which makes us less competitive in a global marketplace but that's fine for big business because they can simply outsource much of their work to China or India where they can legally pay their workforce a fraction of what they would pay a UK-based workforce. Lots of profits for them and their shareholders and millions of unemployed people in Britain.
And meanwhile no-one seems to care about the exponential rise in house prices which have effectively taken half the population out of the housing market or struggling to pay enormous mortgage or rent payments to greedy banks and property owners, but that's OK because if people are struggling to make ends meet then they'll need to buy things on credit...which means even more money for banks to grab.
And meanwhile the wealthy, already laughing in our faces, can enjoy their earnings without even paying any tax on their millions because there exist perfectly legal loopholes for them to avoid paying tax.
And we're told by the news media and the politicians that the people we should be directing our anger and frustration at are the poor and unemployed and disabled. That's just sick. Come on, wake up people and realise just who it is that is really f***ing up the country. Not the minority of benefit claimants who are costing the taxpayer pennies for their "lazy" lifestyles and not the immigrants who are apparently getting free houses the minute they climb off the back of a lorry in Dover. The ones responsible are the ones making billions in profit off our misery.
It's not impossible for bedsit Bob, but it isn't as easy as it appears or is made to appear.
I'm allowed to do "permitted work" and earn a small amount of money and it odesn't affect my benefit. Great that little bit I can afford to save and pay for a course. However the money I earn will affect my housing benefit. I get the first £5 to keep (great) and then my housing benefit goes down by 91p for every £1 that I earn. I work 10 hours (allowed) I earn £70 (allowed) I get in my pocket £ £10.85
To do that pointless family tree course at £330 would take me 3 years and 4 months to save the money to pay for it.
Result = a person on benefits only may (depending on how much they get) have to save years to get a chance at a qualification to improve their chances.
My highest qualification is GCSE Grade A English. I would like to get an A level but the course is £567. I want to get the A level to improve my prosects of gaining employment, but I can't afford to do the course unless I get a job. Once I get the job, I no longer need the qualification anyway.
This is based on me, a guy aged 48 who hits retirement age in about 18 years unless the retirement age goes up. Obviously younger people have more time do course and training to get better paid jobs and push through glass ceilings.
I to would like to be earning £500 per week and would be prepared to do education and train for it, but realistically time is against me. It's not impossible but it will be hard especially as I get older and my "employment time" goes down the longer the training and courses are.
There is something called an 24+ Advanced Learning Loan that I have recently heard about for courses starting in September that I am looking into but have a bad feeling that it's the usual, if you are a student you aren't allowed benefits as you aren't looking for work blah blah blah but you can do job club and be patronised instead scenario.
More and more access to education and training is down to fitting in a criteria (some of which is mindblowingly stupid) just to get it free or heavily subsidised and thus affordable.
I do any course I can get that is free regardless of how crap it may be to get another certificate and sometimes a qualification to put on a CV. You do the "it all adds up to knowledge and learning skills cobblers" he same as doing voluntary work, but they rarely lead to jobs because you fail in the "essential" criteria for a job and pretty much all free courses are Level 2 (GCSE) courses and not the more necessary level 3 (A level) courses.
I'm applying for a job that through doing lots of the free low grade courses and voluntary work for practical experince of a vague type of thing that they are looking for I have all the "desirable" bits and 99% of the "essential" stuff.
The one bit missing is it says needs a driving licence and I can't drive. I'm hoping to bluff it or that the driving licence bit is standard on all their applications and it's actually not necessary or can be worked around in some way and verything will work in my favour. Probably not, but worth a try.
Same old argument trotted out over and over again, YES, we know some people are severely disabled, and, YES they need all the help they can get. Contrary to usual left wing scaremongering tactics I don't think the benefit cuts are aimed at all the jobless, just those who refuse to find work.
And to be honest the number of people convicted of benefit fraud is staggering, equating to some :eek::eek:£3.4Bn in 2012.:eek::eek:
Only a completely irresponsible (Labour), government, led by an incompetent Prime Minister (Tony Blair / Gordon Brown) would allow that level of fraud to go unchallenged.
If you have a problem with the way the benefit cuts are being handled, blame those claiming it who don't deserve it.
Do you live in London too?
How do they decide which is which?
Where did that figure come from? Just done a quick google and that tells me your 'facts' are completely fabricated.
Even if it was that figure which I very much doubt( its around 0.5%) the 12 billion that goes unclaimed more than makes up for it.
Because in reality most of them will only get JSA and HB, and it will be nowhere near the £500 cap.
Lots of the ones that are on the worst money and in the worst jobs do as they have so little to lose.
And tax avoidance costs £69.9 billion a year which is over 20 times as much money.
I'm not saying we should forget about benefit fraud - we all need to avoid wasting public money - but the government knows full well where it can claw back huge sums of money but doesn't. Tax avoidance is only the tip of the iceberg.
Everyone is being targeted, unemployed, sick, disabled, low paid workers
what have benefit cuts got to do with fraud? Unless they are clawing back money lost in fraudulent claims through those who stick to the rules. Yes, root out the fraudsters but don't punish the innocent. Also, I think your figures are a bit off.
You should ring the Open University, I know that in Northern Ireland if you are on jobseekers you get a grant to study for your degree with them, not sure what the situation is in England but i'm sure the fees would be massively reduced and obviously you'd get your student loan etc.
If it makes you more likely to get into a comfortable position it is worth it.
Perhaps because it's better for their self-esteem, to work for low wages, than go on the dole.
Low wages or not, I'd sooner work than fester on the dole.
I realise that isn't a universal opinion, among people of working age, but that's how I see it.
You don't have to have further education to better your career
Are you referring to legal tax avoidance or illegal tax evasion
No but in the context of the post I was responding to it might have helped. Bedsit bob compained of low wages and the futility of working if the pay was just above or lower than those on benefit (assuming they have disability premiums). The route off benefits and the route into higher paid jobs must be similar?
That 'could' be through education/ training etc.
I'd rather do voluntary work for self esteem than work in a low paid job.