Because people's much-loved pets, which have done nothing wrong, have been confiscated and kept in kennels for years simply because of how they look, while the courts decide if they are of the banned "type". Even vets can't agree what is and is not a "pit bull type" (although I've met vets who don't know a field spaniel or a lakeland terrier when they see one, so perhaps that's not saying much).
The conditions that confiscated dogs are kept in not always good and there have been incidents of dogs dying while in "custody" because vet treatment has not been sought early enough. Dogs are pack animals and keeping them locked up alone, and preventing them from having free running exercise, is widely regarded as inhumane, so numerous (possibly hundreds by now) dogs have suffered.
And then there are the families who have suffered the grief of being separated from their pets, often forever if it is deemed to be a banned "type" and euthanased.
Sounds like scaremongering to me - kennels are also used when people go on holiday no? So not the borstals you describe
Also, why have a dog that looks like a pit bull? Staffies etc are the ugliest things I have ever seen and look more like a skinned thing from a horror movie than a pet
Does anyone know why the dogs attacked Jade. It is a shame we only hear half a story.
Are you insinuating that Jade potentially provoked this attack or in some way deserved to be set upon a pack of dogs? Your pose appears to suggest as much.
1/ people need transport - nobody needs a dog other than blind dogs/working dogs
THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE DENIED THE CHANCE TO HAVE A PET DOG IT THEY WANT ONE. WE DON'T NEED TVS, BUT WE ENJOY HAVING THEM
Yes but your TV should remain for your entertainment and not be inflicted upon others such that it causes injury
2/ Volvos don't start up on their own and mount pavements to kill kids
MORE PEOPLE ARE KILLED IN CAR ACCIDENTS THAN DOG ATTACKS EACH YEAR. MAYBE WE SHOULD BAN CARS
Incorrect - cars do not kill independently of a driver -p dogs do
3/ people are responsible for controlling cars - what we need is CONTROL for dogs
BUT PEOPLE DON'T CONTROL CARS, DO THEY? THEY DRIVE DRUNK, THEY SPEED, THEY USE MOBILE PHONES AT THE WHEEL. CARS ARE FAR MORE DANGEROUS THAN DOGS
Erm, perhaps your most bizarre comparison as anyone driving drunk, etc is acting OUTSIDE the law, therefore liable to prosecution so the same would apply to anyone breaking dog control laws
I would say we need
a - dogs in public always on leads and muzzled
DON'T NEED TO BE ON LEADS IF MUZZLED
Yes, they do - they can still knock someone over, alarm, frighten kids, jump on people, get out of control on roads etc
b - a licence for every dog and OWNER in control of the dog - like with a driving licence, some little kid cannot be in control of a big brute of a dog
PEOPLE DRIVE CARS WITHOUT HAVING A LICENCE. IT WILL ONLY BE RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERS WHO MAKE THE EFFORT TO GET A LICENCE, THE IRRESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERS WILL JUST CARRY ON AS THEY DO NOW.... ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS A COST INVOLVED
I refer you again to the law breaking aspect detailed above
c - a limit to how many dogs per property
SO, IF YOU HAVE A MANSION YOU CAN HAVE A PACK OF 100 DOGS, COMPARED TO A ONE BEDROOMED HOUSE? SURELY THOSE 100 DOGS ARE GOING TO BE A PROBLEM?
I would not expect anyone to allow someone to have 100 dogs - weird point you make there
d - a limit to size and breed of dog owned for residential purposes - if people want a dog as company or a pet, then the size should not matter
SMALL DOGS ARE A LOT MORE LIKELY TO SNAP AND BITE, I WOULDN'T WANT A JACK RUSSELL FOR EXAMPLE WITH CHILDREN. A BIG DOG IS LESS LIKELY TO BITE, STATISTICALLY. I HAVE A GERMAN SHEPHERD, SHE'S NEVER BITTEN ANYONE - WHY SHOULDN'T I BE ALLOWED TO HAVE HER?
Larger dogs can do more damage and more likely to result in fatality - also german shepherds attack more than any other breed
e - 'dangerous' dogs to be highly trained and only used by the police to control criminals
YOU CAN'T DESCRIBE A BREED OF DOG AS DANGEROUS, ITS MOSTLY THE OWNER AND LACK OF TRAINING WHICH CAUSES A DOG TO BE DANGEROUS
I would expect the guidance to state a dangerous dog as being over a certain size and not controlled by the other laws
f - designated walking areas fenced in so that kids/joggers etc are not bothered by loose animals.
A MUZZLED OR WELL-TRAINED DOG IS PERFECTLY SAFE IN ANY AREA
So if your dog is well trained and a jogger runs past the dog simply ignores them :rolleyes: it is an animal still - the arrogance of 'owning'' another living creature does not change that fact
e - all breeders to have a breeding licence and registered appropriate property - anyone else selling an animal to be banned from keeping them for life
THIS I WOULD AGREE WITH
I think the thing that worries me the most about owners who get as angry as you have, is that it also removed my trust of dog owners as well as dogs
So many owners/dog lovers are aggressive and unrational that I don't feel that either end of the lead is safe most of the time
What???? I'm not angry! I just didn't agree with the measures suggested by you, and made my own suggestions. The problem with people who don't like dogs is that they seem to judge all dog owners as the same. Oops, that would be me making an assumption though - just like you did!!
I agree the DDA needs looking at, but I won't be signing this.
As the law currently stands, a dog may not be pts for attacking someone on private property, even a child with permission to be there, but may be destroyed for having the wrong shaped head or the wrong colour nose!!
Who does that help??
I personally would liek to see designated dog-walking areas, where joggers, cyslists and children do not pose a threat to my dog.
I'd like to see all dogs have an MOT and temperament check every year, if they are deemed to be aggressive then yes they should be on lead in public. Don't see the need for muzzles if people are sensible about approaching dogs.
Agree, breeding definitely needs to have tighter restrictions, ideally only temperament tested, fit for purpose dogs should ever be bred from with all the appropriate health dogs.
Also the sale of dogs should be restricted, you should need a licence for that IMO and puppy farms should be banned, forever!
Also, all dog trainers and behaviourists should have a relevant and up to date qualifications and experience and the industry should be closely monitored.
And to Shudder, my 'ugly' staffie x does not chase joggers or bikes, bother children or other dogs and is about as dangerous as candyfloss
Sounds like scaremongering to me - kennels are also used when people go on holiday no? So not the borstals you describe
Also, why have a dog that looks like a pit bull? Staffies etc are the ugliest things I have ever seen and look more like a skinned thing from a horror movie than a pet
Boarding kennels are miles apart from council pounds.
Your second paragraph just highlights your ignorance.
What???? I'm not angry! I just didn't agree with the measures suggested by you, and made my own suggestions. The problem with people who don't like dogs is that they seem to judge all dog owners as the same. Oops, that would be me making an assumption though - just like you did!!
By the way, people might think I said that!!
Fair - I feel more like we could get somewhere if owners did not have kneejerk reactions
A responsible owner should be FOR control - for the sake of everyone, including their own dogs
I have seen some nasty dog-on-dog attacks while walking
Defra Minister, Owen Paterson, announced in Written Statement to the House of Commons on 6 February 2013, a series of measures to deal with strays and dangerous dogs:
The offence under section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 of allowing a dog to cause injury, or fear of injury, will be extended to all places, including private property. However, the proposed amendment will not will not provide protection to trespassers who have entered a private property, if the householder believes they have unlawful intentions.
Am I missing something? If I was the householder in the Jade case, of course I would say that she was a trespasser who was going to nick stuff. He / she is hardly going to say otherwise.
Am I missing something? If I was the householder in the Jade case, of course I would say that she was a trespasser who was going to nick stuff. He / she is hardly going to say otherwise.
I understood that she was in the house by invitation! I think they would be hard pressed to try and prove or even suggest that she was trespassing or burgling the place. She was, I understand, in the kitchen, eating a meat pie...hardly the actions of an illicit trespasser or burglar!
Fair - I feel more like we could get somewhere if owners did not have kneejerk reactions
A responsible owner should be FOR control - for the sake of everyone, including their own dogs
I have seen some nasty dog-on-dog attacks while walking
I am for control of dogs - I just don't think the measures suggested would solve the problem.
I had my kitten killed in front of me last year. 2 dogs (husky and german shepherd) came into my garden and dragged it from where it was sleeping and pulled it to death. It was horrific. So I couldn't be more on the side of people wanting dogs to be controlled and looked after properly. However, I don't think the dogs, or their breed, was to blame.
It was the owners fault - and also the fault of the police and RSPCA who had received many complaints over the previous 10 years about the owners and the fact their dogs were being ill-treated, neglected, untrained and always escaping and frightening people.
They could have used existing laws and legislation available to them, but both passed the buck onto the other time after time. The police said it was an RSPCA matter, the RSPCA said it was a police matter. Neither did anything and the situation ended up with 2 animals being killed.
It was only when I got involved (and a farmer whose lambs were savaged later that same day) that anything got done. The dogs involved were destroyed - and I blame the owners for those deaths too. The dogs never had a chance from the moment they bought them.
The are currently banned from keeping dogs for 3 years .... so promptly went out and got cats, a parrot and a horse, and the RSPCA are beyond useless as they don't want to get involved, even though they have been told that these animals aren't being looked after.
So in my opinion, having laws, and new laws, won't solve anything unless the police actually make the effort to uphold them.
Am I missing something? If I was the householder in the Jade case, of course I would say that she was a trespasser who was going to nick stuff. He / she is hardly going to say otherwise.
Erm,, your thinking that everyone lies to get out of trouble, (even in this case which would besmirch the rep of a young girl who died), is slightly off
I am for control of dogs - I just don't think the measures suggested would solve the problem.
I had my kitten killed in front of me last year. 2 dogs (husky and german shepherd) came into my garden and dragged it from where it was sleeping and pulled it to death. It was horrific. So I couldn't be more on the side of people wanting dogs to be controlled and looked after properly. However, I don't think the dogs, or their breed, was to blame.
It was the owners fault - and also the fault of the police and RSPCA who had received many complaints over the previous 10 years about the owners and the fact their dogs were being ill-treated, neglected, untrained and always escaping and frightening people.
They could have used existing laws and legislation available to them, but both passed the buck onto the other time after time. The police said it was an RSPCA matter, the RSPCA said it was a police matter. Neither did anything and the situation ended up with 2 animals being killed.
It was only when I got involved (and a farmer whose lambs were savaged later that same day) that anything got done. The dogs involved were destroyed - and I blame the owners for those deaths too. The dogs never had a chance from the moment they bought them.
The are currently banned from keeping dogs for 3 years .... so promptly went out and got cats, a parrot and a horse, and the RSPCA are beyond useless as they don't want to get involved, even though they have been told that these animals aren't being looked after.
So in my opinion, having laws, and new laws, won't solve anything unless the police actually make the effort to uphold them.
I agree, the laws need to be in place and upheld
So sorry for your experience, totally horrific
I do not hold the RSPCA in high esteem I am afraid - they get more donations made to them than children's charities but time and again I hear of them not taking reports seriously
also german shepherds attack more than any other breed
According to this site below (Source: Dog attack deaths and maimings, US and Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006. Merritt Clifton.). Pitbull Terriers seems to be well and truly in the lead, though as a forum poster stated on petforums.co.uk where I found the link, rightly IMO "The statistics are gathered solely from media reports, which is completely unreliable as the media have a preference for demonising certain breeds, plus there is also the issue of accurate identification of the breed itself, especially pitbulls". Still interesting data none the less
Erm,, your thinking that everyone lies to get out of trouble, (even in this case which would besmirch the rep of a young girl who died), is slightly off
A liar always assumes others are liars
It would also be a matter for a court to decide! If the CPS are happy that there is enough evidence, the defendant would have to use this as their mitigating circumstances!
Erm,, your thinking that everyone lies to get out of trouble, (even in this case which would besmirch the rep of a young girl who died), is slightly off
A liar always assumes others are liars
So you'd put your hands up? As for "besmirch the rep of a young girl" WTF?
Are you insinuating that Jade potentially provoked this attack or in some way deserved to be set upon a pack of dogs? Your pose appears to suggest as much.
Where did I say that I never said no such thing or suggested it.. thank you!!
How many children are killed or seriously injured by dogs every year? Less than 10?
I imagine we could prevent a hundredfold more deaths by reducing the speed limit by 10mph, regulating children's food content, or a whole host of other things. Do you know how many kids get asthma every year because of pollution? But you want to fanny on legislating for dogs?
On any sensible cost benefit analysis, legislating for dangerous dogs (again) is an utter waste of society's resources.
This petition was started by the father of Jade Anderson, who was killed in a ferocious dog attack last week. It doesn't seem to have many signatures. I just thought I'd post it here, in case anyone would like to lend their support.
While I believe something needs to be done about the situation where dogs attack injure or kill children and others. I don't personally think the present dangerous dog act is working and another law introduced that follows the rout being suggested (making all dogs = dangerous) I feel we need to address a couple of issues. 1 dog training and 2 keeping of numerous dogs. in thes case there were a number of dogs involved. dogs are pack animals and people who keep more than two are really putting the nature that controls these animals. There are some other things that cause dogs to attack but the failure to understand 'dog behaviour' is one of the most common causes of dog attack.
I speak from experience here too. my child got bitten by our otherwise well behaved dog because she had food and the dog did what came naturally, she tried to get the food.
Fortunately my child wasn't hurt. I don't have the dog it has been rehomed.
I was unaware that food was involved in this case, I did not intend to suggest fault, in this case. as I was posting others added!
This petition was started by the father of Jade Anderson, who was killed in a ferocious dog attack last week. It doesn't seem to have many signatures. I just thought I'd post it here, in case anyone would like to lend their support.
Whilst offering no criticism to the guy who started this petition, as I fully understand and appreciate his motives, I'm not signing it. If passed it will open the door to all manner of spurious claims, ranging from paper boys to intruders.
I do, however, think that ALL dogs should be muzzled when off private property, even if on a lead.
Comments
Sounds like scaremongering to me - kennels are also used when people go on holiday no? So not the borstals you describe
Also, why have a dog that looks like a pit bull? Staffies etc are the ugliest things I have ever seen and look more like a skinned thing from a horror movie than a pet
Are you insinuating that Jade potentially provoked this attack or in some way deserved to be set upon a pack of dogs? Your pose appears to suggest as much.
What????
By the way, people might think I said that!!
As the law currently stands, a dog may not be pts for attacking someone on private property, even a child with permission to be there, but may be destroyed for having the wrong shaped head or the wrong colour nose!!
Who does that help??
I personally would liek to see designated dog-walking areas, where joggers, cyslists and children do not pose a threat to my dog.
I'd like to see all dogs have an MOT and temperament check every year, if they are deemed to be aggressive then yes they should be on lead in public. Don't see the need for muzzles if people are sensible about approaching dogs.
Agree, breeding definitely needs to have tighter restrictions, ideally only temperament tested, fit for purpose dogs should ever be bred from with all the appropriate health dogs.
Also the sale of dogs should be restricted, you should need a licence for that IMO and puppy farms should be banned, forever!
Also, all dog trainers and behaviourists should have a relevant and up to date qualifications and experience and the industry should be closely monitored.
And to Shudder, my 'ugly' staffie x does not chase joggers or bikes, bother children or other dogs and is about as dangerous as candyfloss
Boarding kennels are miles apart from council pounds.
Your second paragraph just highlights your ignorance.
Fair - I feel more like we could get somewhere if owners did not have kneejerk reactions
A responsible owner should be FOR control - for the sake of everyone, including their own dogs
I have seen some nasty dog-on-dog attacks while walking
Am I missing something? If I was the householder in the Jade case, of course I would say that she was a trespasser who was going to nick stuff. He / she is hardly going to say otherwise.
I understood that she was in the house by invitation! I think they would be hard pressed to try and prove or even suggest that she was trespassing or burgling the place. She was, I understand, in the kitchen, eating a meat pie...hardly the actions of an illicit trespasser or burglar!
I am for control of dogs - I just don't think the measures suggested would solve the problem.
I had my kitten killed in front of me last year. 2 dogs (husky and german shepherd) came into my garden and dragged it from where it was sleeping and pulled it to death. It was horrific. So I couldn't be more on the side of people wanting dogs to be controlled and looked after properly. However, I don't think the dogs, or their breed, was to blame.
It was the owners fault - and also the fault of the police and RSPCA who had received many complaints over the previous 10 years about the owners and the fact their dogs were being ill-treated, neglected, untrained and always escaping and frightening people.
They could have used existing laws and legislation available to them, but both passed the buck onto the other time after time. The police said it was an RSPCA matter, the RSPCA said it was a police matter. Neither did anything and the situation ended up with 2 animals being killed.
It was only when I got involved (and a farmer whose lambs were savaged later that same day) that anything got done. The dogs involved were destroyed - and I blame the owners for those deaths too. The dogs never had a chance from the moment they bought them.
The are currently banned from keeping dogs for 3 years .... so promptly went out and got cats, a parrot and a horse, and the RSPCA are beyond useless as they don't want to get involved, even though they have been told that these animals aren't being looked after.
So in my opinion, having laws, and new laws, won't solve anything unless the police actually make the effort to uphold them.
Erm,, your thinking that everyone lies to get out of trouble, (even in this case which would besmirch the rep of a young girl who died), is slightly off
A liar always assumes others are liars
I agree, the laws need to be in place and upheld
So sorry for your experience, totally horrific
I do not hold the RSPCA in high esteem I am afraid - they get more donations made to them than children's charities but time and again I hear of them not taking reports seriously
http://www.dog-obedience-training-online.com/dog-bite-statistics-by-breed.html
I agree we need more measures though
It would also be a matter for a court to decide! If the CPS are happy that there is enough evidence, the defendant would have to use this as their mitigating circumstances!
Indeed, chav muzzles and leads should be made compulsory , also litter training would be a great help.:)
I agree, on both counts.
So you'd put your hands up? As for "besmirch the rep of a young girl" WTF?
Thank you. I did hear a pie may have been involved but why did she not throw the pie away from her when they stared to attack?
I understand that they must still be investigating what may have happened and cannot think that they will ever find out
Where did I say that
I imagine we could prevent a hundredfold more deaths by reducing the speed limit by 10mph, regulating children's food content, or a whole host of other things. Do you know how many kids get asthma every year because of pollution? But you want to fanny on legislating for dogs?
On any sensible cost benefit analysis, legislating for dangerous dogs (again) is an utter waste of society's resources.
And no, I don't have a dog.
While I believe something needs to be done about the situation where dogs attack injure or kill children and others. I don't personally think the present dangerous dog act is working and another law introduced that follows the rout being suggested (making all dogs = dangerous) I feel we need to address a couple of issues. 1 dog training and 2 keeping of numerous dogs. in thes case there were a number of dogs involved. dogs are pack animals and people who keep more than two are really putting the nature that controls these animals. There are some other things that cause dogs to attack but the failure to understand 'dog behaviour' is one of the most common causes of dog attack.
I speak from experience here too. my child got bitten by our otherwise well behaved dog because she had food and the dog did what came naturally, she tried to get the food.
Fortunately my child wasn't hurt. I don't have the dog it has been rehomed.
I was unaware that food was involved in this case, I did not intend to suggest fault, in this case. as I was posting others added!
Whilst offering no criticism to the guy who started this petition, as I fully understand and appreciate his motives, I'm not signing it. If passed it will open the door to all manner of spurious claims, ranging from paper boys to intruders.
I do, however, think that ALL dogs should be muzzled when off private property, even if on a lead.