From both my first look at HD in Asia early in the year and having a look in UK retailers now, I'd say 75% of HD displays I've seen have looked no better than a DVD on a decent SD screen (and sometimes worse!), with the remaining 25% being mind-blowingly detailed.
This has obviously got to do with the demos they're running on the sets - the proper HD demos with the coral reefs and raindrops splashing on leaves has looked spectacular, but I've seen far too many screens running SD material that looks like someone's put on one of the "painting" effects on Photoshop!
I'd agree that retailers should show how each screen looks with the best and worst of source material, the way it works at the moment you do get the false impression the some of the TVs are great and the other ones are really bad.
I agree about HD clip quality, one method is to shoot in a film mode which gives a filmic look, it seems to change the gamma of the picture, making everything look greyer and less lifelike: Nechricolor? and less live, than the 'video look'.
The best clip I've seen is 'Romantic Journey' on a Panasonic. FANTASTIC quality, almost like looking into a mirror.
It's obvious the production team took care over every aspect of making it, from the lenses, lighting, motion to the compression.
Does anyone know where one can download this clip? Any Electrical retailers with access to this clip
We're back here to the "garbage in, garbage out" system.
I have a Sagem HD ready DLP set which in my opinon performs better than most of the set I see in my part time job in Comet. (Yes we run a HD demo with lovely bright colours, but it gets the punters)
I had the misfortune to be sent to set up a Samsung LCD set for a customer with cable and the result was abysmal. Took a lot of the salesman in me to convince him the cable picture was the fault when in fact it was the poor ability of the set to upscale. He'll be better off when HD does arrive.
However I have both Freeview and Sky, both of which produce a stunning picture on my set via RGB scart. Yet to try component from the DVD. The picture loses ground from the DVD recorder in LP (4 hour) mode, so it's not just wishfull thinking on my part.
I personally hope the SD material broadcast in h264 will now meet the DVD quality, whilst the HD material will laughably surpass it. When upgrading to a HD service, I want my SD quality to significantly go up as well, not them to leave it as is so the HD material looks even better.. right now it looks pretty crap across the board.
Ask any retailer trying to sell you an HD ready PLasma/LCD to switchoff the HD demo and connect a standard def broadcast (which you will be using for the majority of the time for some time yet) and watch their face go white.....the higher resolution screen makes a standard def broadcast MUCH worse than on a standard def PLasma/LCD.....even those have 30% less picture quality than your average quality CRT TV.
To me, all you are paying for at the end of the day is a flat telly with jaw dropping design, NOT a jaw dropping picture, you will only get that when HD is fully available on all channels, otheriwse you will have to put up with a nasty picture on SD and an excellent one on HD....ask yourself which you will be viewing more?
I hope HD although I would get the best upconverting set I could. I don't know what will happen with Sky HD, if they upscale all SD stuff they might over come any problematic upscalers
To me, all you are paying for at the end of the day is a flat telly with jaw dropping design, NOT a jaw dropping picture, you will only get that when HD is fully available on all channels, otheriwse you will have to put up with a nasty picture on SD and an excellent one on HD....ask yourself which you will be viewing more?
Those aspects are important to many people given a reasonable enough SD picture especially via DVD and good quality digital (which is too rare:( ).
It has to be said that the standard SD picture varies wildly across the CRT range with convergence, geometry issues not to mention digital processing and 100hz problems, CRT is not infalliable:)
Having said all that you can't argue against the decent picture a basic CRT will give you from decent SD sources and couple that with the price it's probably the best option for the majority of non HD viewers.
Given my viewing habits then I expect to be watching far more HD than SD even in the first year, the percentage ever increasing as more broadcasters join the party.
I think i too would watch more HD than SD. Im more into Movies than soaps etc, and the 2 Movies HD Screens from Sky will be very welcomed. I do watch shows like the X Factor, Im a celebrity, and Space Cadets, but most other viewing is the Sky Movies channels.
[PHP]Yes I think it will since as I have said before SKY can not risk it failing or getting criticised for poor presentation/delivery but who knows about third party broadcasters.[/PHP]
If this statement is true why do sky currently compress SD programming to the same extent as freeview. Freeview has limited band width /data rate acros the multiplexes and a workable quantity vs quality compromise is unavoidable. Sky
has massively more bandwidth to play with and could if it chose output at DVD data rates.
Also lots of new programming is still in 4:3.
Regard a new TV I would wait 12 to 18 months when you could visit a retailer and see the benefts (or not) of regular sky and cable HD programming.
If this statement is true why do sky currently compress SD programming to the same extent as freeview. Freeview has limited band width /data rate acros the multiplexes and a workable quantity vs quality compromise is unavoidable. Sky
has massively more bandwidth to play with and could if it chose output at DVD data rates.
Also lots of new programming is still in 4:3.
Regard a new TV I would wait 12 to 18 months when you could visit a retailer and see the benefts (or not) of regular sky and cable HD programming.
Digital SD broadcasting was and still is all about economic savings in broadcasting both on DTT, Cable and Dsat.
SKY's premium channels have always been considered to be at the upper end in terms of quality but no one would claim they are maxing out the capabilites of SD mpeg2 compression.
Remember that SKY only control their own channels they have no say on the picture ratio of content on third party channels so you can not blame SKY for 4:3 or compression on the UKTV brand for example.
High Definition is being sold only in terms of picture quality and the infrastructure that is required to support it costs far more than SD broadcasting, SKY and other broadcasters have to spend money on HD with no broadcast savings to recoup. It's easier not to do it in the first place which is the camp I suspect the likes of ITV, CH4 and Five and 90% of the SD broadcasters will be sitting in:)
No argument at all against waiting and see how HD pans out, hardware and content will be cheaper and more plentiful but what's the fun in waiting if you have the money now:)
I assumed he meant that new programming on the majority of multichannel TV is being broadcast 4:3 even though the programs are made in 16:9 and in HD a lot of the time:)
I recently went to the SOny centre in Basingstoke and they have a feed from Canal+ showcasing HDTV clips. It appears to be a Channel 999 on Sky type thing where you get little clips of lots of different things. It was all in HD though. Looked pretty impressive.
The Loewe department in Harrods were running that channel too.
The Loewe department in Harrods were running that channel too.
Is that the one with clip of a drop of light paint swurling in dark paint, some frogs, clips from "Two Brothers", some Rugby and Football? I thought that was great myself
I've not yet been 100% impressed with an HDTV display I've seen. The best display I saw was in John Lewis but even then there was too much noise, too much edge enhancement and too much over saturation.
I've seen a few demo in various shops. They seem to vary in quality. In one Comet there was a clip of a butterfly which looked very detailed, but the background was crawling with pixelation/posterization effects - very offputting.
I have downloaded a few high definition ts/mpg/mov file over the weekend and viewed them via hdmi from pc to LCD TV and :eek: the picture was so damn clear I wanted to cry lol if that's what HDTV is going to look like then I'll deffinately be buying SkyHD at some point.
What you really should be worrying about is their quality on SD, some of these HD sets have excellent pictures when displaying the HD test signals, but switch them to the built in freeview receivers, analogue tv or any SD picture and they look hideous!
Not sure if it's poor quality receivers or problems with built in upscallers.
you shouldnt have that problem if you use a CRT set; however they are few and far between
you shouldnt have that problem if you use a CRT set; however they are few and far between
Many HD CRT's scale SD upto 1080i due to design limitations imposed for economic reasons so scaling can be just as much of an issue for CRT as flat panel.
Digital SD broadcasting was and still is all about economic savings in broadcasting both on DTT, Cable and Dsat.
SKY's premium channels have always been considered to be at the upper end in terms of quality but no one would claim they are maxing out the capabilites of SD mpeg2 compression.
Well thats it. Sky could have leased a few more transponders from Astra, to up the spectrum space - used less compression.
Its all money at the end of the day. Their profits are more important to them than technical standards and picture quality. I suppose they think that the average viewer won't notice the pixelation.
Comments
This has obviously got to do with the demos they're running on the sets - the proper HD demos with the coral reefs and raindrops splashing on leaves has looked spectacular, but I've seen far too many screens running SD material that looks like someone's put on one of the "painting" effects on Photoshop!
I'd agree that retailers should show how each screen looks with the best and worst of source material, the way it works at the moment you do get the false impression the some of the TVs are great and the other ones are really bad.
The best clip I've seen is 'Romantic Journey' on a Panasonic. FANTASTIC quality, almost like looking into a mirror.
It's obvious the production team took care over every aspect of making it, from the lenses, lighting, motion to the compression.
Does anyone know where one can download this clip? Any Electrical retailers with access to this clip
I have a Sagem HD ready DLP set which in my opinon performs better than most of the set I see in my part time job in Comet. (Yes we run a HD demo with lovely bright colours, but it gets the punters)
I had the misfortune to be sent to set up a Samsung LCD set for a customer with cable and the result was abysmal. Took a lot of the salesman in me to convince him the cable picture was the fault when in fact it was the poor ability of the set to upscale. He'll be better off when HD does arrive.
However I have both Freeview and Sky, both of which produce a stunning picture on my set via RGB scart. Yet to try component from the DVD. The picture loses ground from the DVD recorder in LP (4 hour) mode, so it's not just wishfull thinking on my part.
Ask any retailer trying to sell you an HD ready PLasma/LCD to switchoff the HD demo and connect a standard def broadcast (which you will be using for the majority of the time for some time yet) and watch their face go white.....the higher resolution screen makes a standard def broadcast MUCH worse than on a standard def PLasma/LCD.....even those have 30% less picture quality than your average quality CRT TV.
To me, all you are paying for at the end of the day is a flat telly with jaw dropping design, NOT a jaw dropping picture, you will only get that when HD is fully available on all channels, otheriwse you will have to put up with a nasty picture on SD and an excellent one on HD....ask yourself which you will be viewing more?
I hope HD although I would get the best upconverting set I could. I don't know what will happen with Sky HD, if they upscale all SD stuff they might over come any problematic upscalers
Those aspects are important to many people given a reasonable enough SD picture especially via DVD and good quality digital (which is too rare:( ).
It has to be said that the standard SD picture varies wildly across the CRT range with convergence, geometry issues not to mention digital processing and 100hz problems, CRT is not infalliable:)
Having said all that you can't argue against the decent picture a basic CRT will give you from decent SD sources and couple that with the price it's probably the best option for the majority of non HD viewers.
Given my viewing habits then I expect to be watching far more HD than SD even in the first year, the percentage ever increasing as more broadcasters join the party.
If this statement is true why do sky currently compress SD programming to the same extent as freeview. Freeview has limited band width /data rate acros the multiplexes and a workable quantity vs quality compromise is unavoidable. Sky
has massively more bandwidth to play with and could if it chose output at DVD data rates.
Also lots of new programming is still in 4:3.
Regard a new TV I would wait 12 to 18 months when you could visit a retailer and see the benefts (or not) of regular sky and cable HD programming.
Digital SD broadcasting was and still is all about economic savings in broadcasting both on DTT, Cable and Dsat.
SKY's premium channels have always been considered to be at the upper end in terms of quality but no one would claim they are maxing out the capabilites of SD mpeg2 compression.
Remember that SKY only control their own channels they have no say on the picture ratio of content on third party channels so you can not blame SKY for 4:3 or compression on the UKTV brand for example.
High Definition is being sold only in terms of picture quality and the infrastructure that is required to support it costs far more than SD broadcasting, SKY and other broadcasters have to spend money on HD with no broadcast savings to recoup. It's easier not to do it in the first place which is the camp I suspect the likes of ITV, CH4 and Five and 90% of the SD broadcasters will be sitting in:)
No argument at all against waiting and see how HD pans out, hardware and content will be cheaper and more plentiful but what's the fun in waiting if you have the money now:)
Scarcely any new programming is in 4:3??
I assumed he meant that new programming on the majority of multichannel TV is being broadcast 4:3 even though the programs are made in 16:9 and in HD a lot of the time:)
The Loewe department in Harrods were running that channel too.
Is that the one with clip of a drop of light paint swurling in dark paint, some frogs, clips from "Two Brothers", some Rugby and Football? I thought that was great myself
Many HD CRT's scale SD upto 1080i due to design limitations imposed for economic reasons so scaling can be just as much of an issue for CRT as flat panel.
I first when to my local shop that had avertised a HD demonsration.
They were taking a sat feed from astra.
This was my first HD viewing and I was not impressed with high quality jagged edges.
I then went to comet and saw the TH42PV500 again the set next to it looked much better.
By now is was convinced that the setup of the TV for the demos could not have been quite right.
Lastly I went to a Panasonic shop and saw what I expected from a HD Player - WOW.
Don't take what you are shown, if you don't think its good enough.
I am sure that many HD TV's in shops are not setup correctly?
I have since seen the TH37PV500 in John Lewis from a HD player still having the WOW effect.
Just waiting for the TH37PV500 now in my front room, to start showing Sky HD!
Well thats it. Sky could have leased a few more transponders from Astra, to up the spectrum space - used less compression.
Its all money at the end of the day. Their profits are more important to them than technical standards and picture quality. I suppose they think that the average viewer won't notice the pixelation.