I was listening to an interview with one of his college friends on R4 last night, where they remarked how surprised they were that he got into this, that he was a bit of a dopehead, had a few problems with flunking some classes, but was generally a friendly outgoing person who enjoyed himself. One of their remarks when questioned about his religion was that he declared himself to be Muslim but that they had never known him to go to mosque.
Maybe he did on the quiet?
Like they were living double lives, pretending to fit in, but secretly hating America and the American way of life perhaps
just read the piece linked to a few pages back. interesting reading. I suspect this will likely be used as the 'building blocks', if you will, for the theorists since it features interviews with many people who knew them and who say how shocked they were that they were even involved.
"If so many people knew, and liked, them and expressed so much shock that they were involved", we'll be told, "then how were they so quickly identified and named as suspects?". Or something along those lines I don't doubt.
I was listening to an interview with one of his college friends on R4 last night, where they remarked how surprised they were that he got into this, that he was a bit of a dopehead, had a few problems with flunking some classes, but was generally a friendly outgoing person who enjoyed himself. One of their remarks when questioned about his religion was that he declared himself to be Muslim but that they had never known him to go to mosque.
Maybe he did on the quiet?
He had friends from the mosque and even smoked marijuana with them, from what I'm reading. Guess he was not too religious. His brother had an angry outburst at the mosque sndhad to be counseled by the imam.
Okay this is interesting so I will put it out there. Ties in with the Mother's claim that The older brother Tamerlan was involved with the fbi for the past 3 or 5 years. What that means exactly we don't know. But here is an article from the NY Times which discusses the FBI setting up terror plots by roping in a potential terrorist except they had not even attempted anything until the fbi had set up the plot. Then nabbing the perpetrator before they have carried out the attack. The author gives many examples of such plots.
Not saying this is what has happened but if the FBI are doing this it does beg the question of how true is the mother's claim regarding Tamerlan's case.
She perhaps is not thinking clearly and trying her best to defend her son or there is something in this which ties in with what is discussed in this article.
Like they were living double lives, pretending to fit in, but secretly hating America and the American way of life perhaps
Exactly. It's been reported that authorities now believe that they were linked to a 12-strong "sleeper cell" of Jihadists. The entire sleeper cell concept is particularly unnerving, as the enemy is right here among us, but is often undetected until it's too late.
There is a touching video interview with Djokhar's friend Zolan on there, he's in tears at the end as he just can't understand why the person he thought he knew would have done what he did:(.
'WE' are not the jury.
WE have no right to demand proof....that is for the prosecution to present to a jury.
It is up to the authorities to decide if and when other video evidence is given out prior to a trial. Why do you presume that there is a picture of one of them setting down the bag.? CCTV does not have the ability to 'see through' a crowd 6 or 7 deep to see someone setting down a backpack.
There is other evidence that they are the bombers.....throwing explosives and another pressure cooker bomb at the police when apprehended.
There is no reason whatsoever to release any further pictures as the suspects have been caught
The police have told us they have the image of one of them planting their bag, that is how they then tracked the first one, and saw he was walking round with the other.
I have some sympathy for those that say something doesn't sit right, but really only regarding the younger brother. With the elder brother it seems a classic case of being isolated from society, failing educational goals, adding to that a tendency for aggression, maybe the fact he found it harder to integrate as he came to the US aged about 20, in comparison to the younger brother who came here when he was 8.
One theory that did occur to me, was that initially the elder brother was cooking up this plan solely on his own, maybe to plant bombs, but also to be a suicide bomber. The younger brother found out, and tried desperately to talk him out of it, but the elder brother remained insistent. In desperation to try and stop his brother committing suicide, the younger brother says he will go along with a plan, involving planting bombs, and they will then hope they don't get found out for long enough & maybe eventually they will fly out to Dagestan?
Like some of the rude and ill mannered people shooting others down, if they DARE have a different perspective, or even a query/question? Right on here on this very forum. Thought this was an open forum no one should have to DARE to speak up or be threatened with being labeled a CT.
Would like to see moderators dob something about this. Being called a nut, an idiot, crass comments like "we know your type" or your kind are all the same etc etc. This is bullying and insulting, just for having an opinion. It's not right.
So this lot should be banned too IMO.
Just how the hell do some people cope in the real world disagreeing with someone. All this talk of banning is pathetic and childish.
BTW does anyone know if there's any online donation funds for the other victims of the attack? I know there's the guy who was in the graphic picture in a wheelchair but what about all the other victims like Martin Richards sister and mother? I can't imagine how the father must be feeling.
Just how the hell do some people cope in the real world disagreeing with someone. All this talk of banning is pathetic and childish.
When it comes to a point people fear posting their views in fear of soem form of aggressive verbal retribution then yes, there perhaps should at least be a warning.
Just read someone earlier daring someone to post their opinion, with the threat of being labeled a CT. Is that a show of fair play in your eyes? I think not!
Exactly. It's been reported that authorities now believe that they were linked to a 12-strong "sleeper cell" of Jihadists. The entire sleeper cell concept is particularly unnerving, as the enemy is right here among us, but is often undetected until it's too late.
Yes.
The parents went back to Russia ,so why didnt they just go back and leave America , to see if the grass was greener somewhere else.Why stay if you started to dislike the society you were living in. Its not as if they didnt have anywhere to go as the older brother did leave for 6 months then went back to the USA..
So to everyone putting their blind faith in the FBI, would someone like to address my earlier post which seems to have been "missed".
Address what part of the post? It is generally agreed that if he fell off the FBI radar that is an error. I don't see anyone posting with blind faith in the FBI. Maybe he had anger issue and used religion as a way to rationalize it. Just speculating.
Address what part of the post? It is generally agreed that if he fell off the FBI radar that is an error. I don't see anyone posting with blind faith in the FBI. Maybe he had anger issue and used religion as a way to rationalize it. Just speculating.
have you actually read the article?? regarding the FBI setting up terror plots? This is in the NY Times. Could there be a possible link? Just saying that how many people are aware of this tactic? Knowing this, it does ask the question, of how much involvement did Tamlerlan have with the FBI? Could there be some basis to the mother's claim?
Just how the hell do some people cope in the real world disagreeing with someone. All this talk of banning is pathetic and childish.
Yes it screams of 'Ban everyone else so that I can post anything I like however ridiculous it is and never allow anyone to point out just how ridiculous it is and they will be banned.'
Passive aggressive at its best and they talk about others bullying their opinions through.
When it comes to a point people fear posting their views in fear of soem form of aggressive verbal retribution then yes, there perhaps should at least be a warning.
Just read someone earlier daring someone to post their opinion, with the threat of being labeled a CT. Is that a show of fair play in your eyes? I think not!
I, ve been labelled on here numerous times but I wont be silenced because if it. It makes me more determined to find out if my opinion is the correct one or whether I am wrong. Running away or silencing people is the wrong way to go.
I, ve been labelled on here numerous times but I wont be silenced because if it. It makes me more determined to find out if my opinion is the correct one or whether I am wrong. Running away or silencing people is the wrong way to go.
But was it "aggressive verbal retribution" or other nonsense emotive passive aggressive phrase like that?
I really don't know how some survive outside their front door in light wind.
Yes.
The parents went back to Russia ,so why didnt they just go back and leave America , to see if the grass was greener somewhere else.Why stay if you started to dislike the society you were living in. Its not as if they didnt have anywhere to go as the older brother did leave for 6 months then went back to the USA..
It only sounds like the older brother had problems with his peers though. By all accounts, Dzokhar was pretty happy in Boston.
have you actually read the article?? regarding the FBI setting up terror plots? This is in the NY Times. Could there be a possible link? Just saying that how many people are aware of this tactic? Knowing this, it does ask the question, of how much involvement did Tamlerlan have with the FBI? Could there be some basis to the mother's claim?
Yes I read it. I don't think there's any evidence this occured here, we know the FBI interviewed him after he came back from Russia one time, but concluded there was no threat to the USA. Even given Tamerlan's youtube account, there must be tens of thousands of Americans who have similar accounts, do they run a surveillance operation on all of these? I think the risk factors that may should been seen was that both parents left the USA, the mother's arrest for shoplifting, leaving the family home entirely to the use of the elder brother, it's not clear whether he was living there with his partner/wife & daughter.
I, ve been labelled on here numerous times but I wont be silenced because if it. It makes me more determined to find out if my opinion is the correct one or whether I am wrong. Running away or silencing people is the wrong way to go.
We don't all have the same sensitivities though do we? Do people really have to be so rude and aggressive? Allow people to post and if you don't agree debate/ignore it.
Is it really asking that much? Instead of going down the aggressive route? Ganging up on people, labeling them, without even knowing them. As i said, it's bullying. A little respect wouldn't hurt. People have all kinds of different ideas and perspectives, that's what makes discussion forums interesting. What isn't cool is being constantly attacked by a gang of aggressive folk who feel the other has no right to post their opinion, and will do their best to flame, humiliate and slander the other.
have you actually read the article?? regarding the FBI setting up terror plots? This is in the NY Times. Could there be a possible link? Just saying that how many people are aware of this tactic? Knowing this, it does ask the question, of how much involvement did Tamlerlan have with the FBI? Could there be some basis to the mother's claim?
Yes I read it. Are you asking could the brothers have been part of a sting operation? Yes that is conceivable, but where did the real bombs come from then? And the weapons. Would the FBI give someone who is target of a sting a cache of weapons? I doubt this. In the examples, only dummies were used.
We don't all have the same sensitivities though do we? Do people really have to be so rude and aggressive? Allow people to post and if you don't agree debate/ignore it.
Is it really asking that much? Instead of going down the aggressive route? Ganging up on people, labeling them, without even knowing them. As i said, it's bullying. A little respect wouldn't hurt. People have all kinds of different ideas and perspectives, that's what makes discussion forums interesting. What isn't cool is being constantly attacked by a gang of aggressive folk who feel the other has no right to post their opinion, and will do their best to flame, humiliate and slander the other.
As i said, not cool.
The problem was that poster kept ignoring the points that people made time & time again, just completely side stepping the flaws people were pointing out in their argument, it's not surprising if people then get a little exasperated.
have you actually read the article?? regarding the FBI setting up terror plots? This is in the NY Times. Could there be a possible link? Just saying that how many people are aware of this tactic? Knowing this, it does ask the question, of how much involvement did Tamlerlan have with the FBI? Could there be some basis to the mother's claim?
Quite honestly I wouldn't put anything past the FBI. I have absolutely no problem with people saying there are questions about the whys and the wherefores of motive etc; indeed, there are ONLY questions at this stage. But when people are demanding photos and CCTV footage because they're determined that something about the actual arrest itself has to be dodgy, then it's crossing a line into CT territory.
Yes I read it. I don't think there's any evidence this occured here, we know the FBI interviewed him after he came back from Russia one time, but concluded there was no threat to the USA. Even given Tamerlan's youtube account, there must be tens of thousands of Americans who have similar accounts, do they run a surveillance operation on all of these? I think the risk factors that may should been seen was that both parents left the USA, the mother's arrest for shoplifting, leaving the family home entirely to the use of the elder brother, it's not clear whether he was living there with his partner/wife & daughter.
I agree, there isn't the evidence, but the point is, that if the FBI are capable of setting people up, which is what that article stresses, then it is fair to say that perhaps not all they tell us is the truth. There may be things here that aren't so clear cut, which is leading some people to ask questions. It's perfectly reasonable for them to do so.
We still don't have all the facts, so it is not unreasonable for people to question, not only the motives of the suspects, but also that of the FBI. Our world is not black and white, it is multi coloured and very complex. Some sections of the media are not gospels of truth and there are also errors in reporting.
Im not saying this is a cover up, because I don't have all the facts so i couldn't prove it. So far the evidence seen leads up to these boys pulling off the attack, but it is not wrong to keep an open mind when it comes to these things. We know there are crooked and bent people in authority so shouldn't always take the first story we are told. That's all I'm saying.
The case may wrap up and these guys found to be completely guilty from start to finish, then that's fair enough but so far there are things that are up for debate so nothing wrong in having an opinion on this, so people should feel free to go ahead and post whatever is on their mind.
Comments
Like they were living double lives, pretending to fit in, but secretly hating America and the American way of life perhaps
"If so many people knew, and liked, them and expressed so much shock that they were involved", we'll be told, "then how were they so quickly identified and named as suspects?". Or something along those lines I don't doubt.
He had friends from the mosque and even smoked marijuana with them, from what I'm reading. Guess he was not too religious. His brother had an angry outburst at the mosque sndhad to be counseled by the imam.
So to everyone putting their blind faith in the FBI, would someone like to address my earlier post which seems to have been "missed".
Exactly. It's been reported that authorities now believe that they were linked to a 12-strong "sleeper cell" of Jihadists. The entire sleeper cell concept is particularly unnerving, as the enemy is right here among us, but is often undetected until it's too late.
The police have told us they have the image of one of them planting their bag, that is how they then tracked the first one, and saw he was walking round with the other.
I have some sympathy for those that say something doesn't sit right, but really only regarding the younger brother. With the elder brother it seems a classic case of being isolated from society, failing educational goals, adding to that a tendency for aggression, maybe the fact he found it harder to integrate as he came to the US aged about 20, in comparison to the younger brother who came here when he was 8.
One theory that did occur to me, was that initially the elder brother was cooking up this plan solely on his own, maybe to plant bombs, but also to be a suicide bomber. The younger brother found out, and tried desperately to talk him out of it, but the elder brother remained insistent. In desperation to try and stop his brother committing suicide, the younger brother says he will go along with a plan, involving planting bombs, and they will then hope they don't get found out for long enough & maybe eventually they will fly out to Dagestan?
Just how the hell do some people cope in the real world disagreeing with someone. All this talk of banning is pathetic and childish.
Just bumping this.
When it comes to a point people fear posting their views in fear of soem form of aggressive verbal retribution then yes, there perhaps should at least be a warning.
Just read someone earlier daring someone to post their opinion, with the threat of being labeled a CT. Is that a show of fair play in your eyes? I think not!
Yes.
The parents went back to Russia ,so why didnt they just go back and leave America , to see if the grass was greener somewhere else.Why stay if you started to dislike the society you were living in. Its not as if they didnt have anywhere to go as the older brother did leave for 6 months then went back to the USA..
Address what part of the post? It is generally agreed that if he fell off the FBI radar that is an error. I don't see anyone posting with blind faith in the FBI. Maybe he had anger issue and used religion as a way to rationalize it. Just speculating.
the mayors fund:
http://onefundboston.org/
This seems to be the general overall charity.
If you google the names of specific victims, you will find links to specific charities
I haven't read anything about funds for the other families, sorry.
Thanks alot.
have you actually read the article?? regarding the FBI setting up terror plots? This is in the NY Times. Could there be a possible link? Just saying that how many people are aware of this tactic? Knowing this, it does ask the question, of how much involvement did Tamlerlan have with the FBI? Could there be some basis to the mother's claim?
Yes it screams of 'Ban everyone else so that I can post anything I like however ridiculous it is and never allow anyone to point out just how ridiculous it is and they will be banned.'
Passive aggressive at its best and they talk about others bullying their opinions through.
:rolleyes:
I, ve been labelled on here numerous times but I wont be silenced because if it. It makes me more determined to find out if my opinion is the correct one or whether I am wrong. Running away or silencing people is the wrong way to go.
But was it "aggressive verbal retribution" or other nonsense emotive passive aggressive phrase like that?
I really don't know how some survive outside their front door in light wind.
It only sounds like the older brother had problems with his peers though. By all accounts, Dzokhar was pretty happy in Boston.
We don't all have the same sensitivities though do we? Do people really have to be so rude and aggressive? Allow people to post and if you don't agree debate/ignore it.
Is it really asking that much? Instead of going down the aggressive route? Ganging up on people, labeling them, without even knowing them. As i said, it's bullying. A little respect wouldn't hurt. People have all kinds of different ideas and perspectives, that's what makes discussion forums interesting. What isn't cool is being constantly attacked by a gang of aggressive folk who feel the other has no right to post their opinion, and will do their best to flame, humiliate and slander the other.
As i said, not cool.
Yes I read it. Are you asking could the brothers have been part of a sting operation? Yes that is conceivable, but where did the real bombs come from then? And the weapons. Would the FBI give someone who is target of a sting a cache of weapons? I doubt this. In the examples, only dummies were used.
Quite honestly I wouldn't put anything past the FBI. I have absolutely no problem with people saying there are questions about the whys and the wherefores of motive etc; indeed, there are ONLY questions at this stage. But when people are demanding photos and CCTV footage because they're determined that something about the actual arrest itself has to be dodgy, then it's crossing a line into CT territory.
I agree, there isn't the evidence, but the point is, that if the FBI are capable of setting people up, which is what that article stresses, then it is fair to say that perhaps not all they tell us is the truth. There may be things here that aren't so clear cut, which is leading some people to ask questions. It's perfectly reasonable for them to do so.
We still don't have all the facts, so it is not unreasonable for people to question, not only the motives of the suspects, but also that of the FBI. Our world is not black and white, it is multi coloured and very complex. Some sections of the media are not gospels of truth and there are also errors in reporting.
Im not saying this is a cover up, because I don't have all the facts so i couldn't prove it. So far the evidence seen leads up to these boys pulling off the attack, but it is not wrong to keep an open mind when it comes to these things. We know there are crooked and bent people in authority so shouldn't always take the first story we are told. That's all I'm saying.
The case may wrap up and these guys found to be completely guilty from start to finish, then that's fair enough but so far there are things that are up for debate so nothing wrong in having an opinion on this, so people should feel free to go ahead and post whatever is on their mind.