I know she has done all the things that Thrombin lists, but it's like she has a perception filter or something, my mind just glosses over her.
Except for TBoSJ where she seemed to be a character in her own right, she has just been someone for the Doctor to wonder about, without any perceptible personality.
Even the Lancashire Sass line made me think "what sass?" if she is supposed to be sassy, it isn't getting through to me.
Sorry to Clara fans, but apart from the "who is she?" plot, she just seems to be along for the ride.
The character just doesn't seem to be very well written. Or perhaps she is and that's part of the reveal.
I stress it's not Jenna, who was great in AotD and TS.
I wonder if it's because to me she just doesn't have much 'real' personal interraction with the Doctor, He's fascinated with her because of the previous Claras, but from the start it's as if we see her when she's been travelling with him for a while, not particularly asking questions, just making smart remarks and the odd moment of realisation that it's serious and not all fun, which she then loses pretty quickly. Victorian Clara was fine, this one just leaves me cold. Although she had her moments with the chair and the chimney on Saturday for me it was the better for her being more in the background.
Bu the way I've seen the 'Lancashire, sass' line transcribed as 'Lancashire, south.' TBH when I watched it again I deliberately listened and it could have been either.
Clara didn't even know how to connect to the internet (which I find ridiculous - a 20-something year old not knowing the basics of a computer). She only hacked into the Shard because she was suddenly *super computer intelligent* because her time in the network did something to her. I would have liked to have seen Clara already be a bit of a whiz with computers and save the doctor because of it.
Not knowing how to connect to a Wi-Fi network is just lack of knowledge, not lack of intelligence. I've done enough computer support to know that this is not that unlikely.
In any case, it wasn't just the downloaded skills that enabled her to find the Shard it was genius-level application of those skills (skills she would never have had if she wasn't high enough intelligence to have been selected for upload in the first place).
Either way, however she got the skills, the fact remains that it was Clara who found the Shard and, therefore Clara who directly influenced the resolution of that episode. She didn't spend the episode standing around looking pretty as you allege.
She gave a leaf to a sun. Don't get me started on that storyline. It sounds stupid just writing it.
She cleverly deduced that the implications of infinite lost potential in the leaf could fill up the sun-thing far better than any finite number of memories, no matter how numerous. That was genius-level deduction that out-thought the Doctor. The fact that you didn't understand it only shows just how much more of a genius Clara is! She was patently the reason they succeeded in that episode, she was no bystander no matter how much you dislike the episode.
She talked to the Ice Warrior but she didn't convince it of anything - it went on a rampage around the ship killing people and to my mind, it was the Doctor at the end who actually talked it down from creating WWIII, not Clara. Yes she was brave to go in there and talk to it in the first place - but I wouldn't say she saved the day.
I disagree. It was her reminding the Ice Warrior of his daughter which finally mellowed him, in my opinion. I don't think that episode would have turned out so well if it weren't for her intervention.
She had a tiff with the Tardis and the Tardis rescued the Doctor (as if there was any doubt that the Tardis wouldn't!). What I got from that scene is that the Tardis was always going to rescue her Doctor, but she doesn't like Clara at all and enjoyed the opportunity to tell her so and lord it over her just a bit that she needed her help. Emma was the real heroine of that episode.
I don't deny Emma's contribution to that episode but I completely disagree that the TARDIS would have rescued the Doctor any way. It was just standing there tolling its cloister bell. It was only Clara's ability to motivate it which caused it to risk almost certain destruction in a rescue attempt.
In this week's episode her sole contribution was that she noticed smoke wasn't coming out of the chimney. Thats great, but most people would have noticed the same thing and it doesn't make for a particularly exciting scene, character wise.
That's precisely the sort of thing that most people don't notice, as evidenced by the fact that nobody else did! No way they would have stopped the rocket in time if she hadn't made that deduction.
It's true she didn't appear too much in that episode but it was deliberately Doctor lite and, as such, Clara lite so that was to be expected. She was the one who smashed the machine with a chair, though. That's hardly standing around looking pretty.
Again, in Journey to the Center of the Tardis, she was very much a pretty, in need of saving bystander. I don't think anyone could argue that it was the Doctor who saved the day
Which is why I didn't argue it. It's the only episde she didn't, however, IMO, and she was hardly standing still looking pretty in that one, either. She was the damsel in distress in that one and doing a lot of running around.
I mean, I get it, he's the Doctor, he's supposed to save the day, but if the show insists on having young attractive women as companions they need to equally save the day. From the trailer next week it looks like Clara will finally be taking an active role - I loved Neil Gailman's last DW episode so have high hopes for this one. But I don't think there's many episodes left of the series, and its a shame that Clara has become so nondescript.
Sorry, I just don't see it. Not remotely nondescript, in my eyes. Don't get that at all.
Bu the way I've seen the 'Lancashire, sass' line transcribed as 'Lancashire, south.' TBH when I watched it again I deliberately listened and it could have been either.
The doctor programs the Scanner to recognise "Sass", not sure if he would need to program it to recognise "South"
I agree with Granny. They have given her things to do, but haven't really set her up with much to say. Bells showed she was intelligent. And when computer knowledge was inserted she used that knowledge brilliantly. Since then she's done some decent standard companion stuff but not really said much. Most of what she has said is in that slightly sitcom one liner mode that I don't find convincing as real dialogue.
There's nothing about her I dislike as such. But they haven't drawn a memorable character yet.
Not knowing how to connect to a Wi-Fi network is just lack of knowledge, not lack of intelligence. I've done enough computer support to know that this is not that unlikely.
In any case, it wasn't just the downloaded skills that enabled her to find the Shard it was genius-level application of those skills (skills she would never have had if she wasn't high enough intelligence to have been selected for upload in the first place).
Either way, however she got the skills, the fact remains that it was Clara who found the Shard and, therefore Clara who directly influenced the resolution of that episode. She didn't spend the episode standing around looking pretty as you allege.
She cleverly deduced that the implications of infinite lost potential in the leaf could fill up the sun-thing far better than any finite number of memories, no matter how numerous. That was genius-level deduction that out-thought the Doctor. The fact that you didn't understand it only shows just how much more of a genius Clara is! She was patently the reason they succeeded in that episode, she was no bystander no matter how much you dislike the episode.
I disagree. It was her reminding the Ice Warrior of his daughter which finally mellowed him, in my opinion. I don't think that episode would have turned out so well if it weren't for her intervention.
I don't deny Emma's contribution to that episode but I completely disagree that the TARDIS would have rescued the Doctor any way. It was just standing there tolling its cloister bell. It was only Clara's ability to motivate it which caused it to risk almost certain destruction in a rescue attempt.
That's precisely the sort of thing that most people don't notice, as evidenced by the fact that nobody else did! No way they would have stopped the rocket in time if she hadn't made that deduction.
It's true she didn't appear too much in that episode but it was deliberately Doctor lite and, as such, Clara lite so that was to be expected. She was the one who smashed the machine with a chair, though. That's hardly standing around looking pretty.
Which is why I didn't argue it. It's the only episde she didn't, however, IMO, and she was hardly standing still looking pretty in that one, either. She was the damsel in distress in that one and doing a lot of running around.
Sorry, I just don't see it. Not remotely nondescript, in my eyes. Don't get that at all.
Fantastic post.
Yet people will continue to ignore all of this and still spout the same rubbish.
I agree with Granny. They have given her things to do, but haven't really set her up with much to say. Bells showed she was intelligent. And when computer knowledge was inserted she used that knowledge brilliantly. Since then she's done some decent standard companion stuff but not really said much. Most of what she has said is in that slightly sitcom one liner mode that I don't find convincing as real dialogue.
There's nothing about her I dislike as such. But they haven't drawn a memorable character yet.
I wonder if its because we've got so used to Amy's yap yap yapping all the time, with her strong and hard to ignore accent, that Clara's Dialogue seems to get lost and almost go un-noticed in comparison.Sometimes I miss her lines altogether, but that maybe because of the fact I'm hard of hearing in my left ear and the instramental music is so blinking loud at times.
Sometimes I miss her lines altogether, but that maybe because of the fact I'm hard of hearing in my left ear and the instramental music is so blinking loud at times.
Not knowing how to connect to a Wi-Fi network is just lack of knowledge, not lack of intelligence. I've done enough computer support to know that this is not that unlikely.
In any case, it wasn't just the downloaded skills that enabled her to find the Shard it was genius-level application of those skills (skills she would never have had if she wasn't high enough intelligence to have been selected for upload in the first place).
Either way, however she got the skills, the fact remains that it was Clara who found the Shard and, therefore Clara who directly influenced the resolution of that episode. She didn't spend the episode standing around looking pretty as you allege.
She cleverly deduced that the implications of infinite lost potential in the leaf could fill up the sun-thing far better than any finite number of memories, no matter how numerous. That was genius-level deduction that out-thought the Doctor. The fact that you didn't understand it only shows just how much more of a genius Clara is! She was patently the reason they succeeded in that episode, she was no bystander no matter how much you dislike the episode.
I disagree. It was her reminding the Ice Warrior of his daughter which finally mellowed him, in my opinion. I don't think that episode would have turned out so well if it weren't for her intervention.
I don't deny Emma's contribution to that episode but I completely disagree that the TARDIS would have rescued the Doctor any way. It was just standing there tolling its cloister bell. It was only Clara's ability to motivate it which caused it to risk almost certain destruction in a rescue attempt.
That's precisely the sort of thing that most people don't notice, as evidenced by the fact that nobody else did! No way they would have stopped the rocket in time if she hadn't made that deduction.
It's true she didn't appear too much in that episode but it was deliberately Doctor lite and, as such, Clara lite so that was to be expected. She was the one who smashed the machine with a chair, though. That's hardly standing around looking pretty.
Which is why I didn't argue it. It's the only episde she didn't, however, IMO, and she was hardly standing still looking pretty in that one, either. She was the damsel in distress in that one and doing a lot of running around.
Sorry, I just don't see it. Not remotely nondescript, in my eyes. Don't get that at all.
Of course not knowing how a computer works isn't a lack of intelligence, however, Clara is what, 24/26? That's my age group. She's clearly white middle class, had a decent education etc. She would have used computers at school. The only reason to make her so clueless was because they needed her to do a 180 later on when she found out where the network was. I didn't like that. Yes, she found the Shard, so you can argue she played an important part in the episode, the point is, she didn't save everyone because she's actually a genius or because growing up she loved taking apart and building computers or something. It's because the knowledge was downloaded into her. You can't see why that's disappointing? I get that Clara's a mystery but if you asked me what kind of character she is, apart from the 'she's typically sassy', I couldn't really tell you.
To the bolded: not really. I understood the whole leaf plot point just fine. I just don't think the convoluted idea that the leaf held all these infinite, potential moments made any of the characters (or the writers of that episode) look good. I even cringed during the Doctors epic speech on that one, which has never happened before. I'm sorry but I don't think it made Clara look like a genius either. It was a stretch to believe the whole thing.
I'm not going to go through every point, this post is too long anyway - but with this latest episode, just because no one else mentioned the lack of smoke, doesn't mean its something that the rest of the characters would never have noticed without her. Its something that Jenny would have noticed immediately, given what we know of her character. For me, it felt like because the writers needed Clara to contribute in some way they gave her that line. Which is fine. But it's hardly much for her to do all episode - even if it was one where her and Doctor weren't the main focus. In comparison, Jenny, was fantastic and had a lot more chemistry in one single scene with the Doctor that I've seen for a while between Clara and the Doctor.
When I say Clara has become a bit nondescript, to me, she has. What's interesting about her, other than the fact that she's a mystery? It's boring to be told this girl's so intelligent, this girl's so feisty, nothing fazes her etc etc. She always has a clever one-liner to throw back at the Doctor, or when she's in danger. Perhaps there's a reason she's so blank when it comes to having a personality or any history - she had it in spades as a daleck and in Victorian London (the scene where she sees the Tardis for the first time and the doctor gives her a key is fantastic) but it doesn't make me want to watch her now.
I want to like Clara and I did the first 2 episodes she featured in, but I think she's given very little to go on each episode since then. I've seen quite a few posts of people saying the same thing, so clearly, its not just something I've picked up on.
Yes of course..and do allot, but its not the same..and I never had a problem hearing Amy.
I had the opposite problem, could never understand a word the Scottish girl was saying.
I leave subtitles on anyway as writers have a nasty habit of throwing in obscure references and without subtitles I'd be left wondering what the heck was that word they just used?
Of course not knowing how a computer works isn't a lack of intelligence, however, Clara is what, 24/26? That's my age group. She's clearly white middle class, had a decent education etc. She would have used computers at school.
As I said previously, I have friends in their 20's who can't connect a laptopctp wifi, my friend Charlotte is 25, I'm always having to sort out the simplest of things from connecting her wifi, to updating software, windows, etc, so it's fairly common. Don't assume that just cos you don't know anyone that's like that, they don't exist.
Loved the episode, loved it loved it loved it. My favourite one in A-G-E-S. I even chuckled at the awful Tom Tom joke.
My one complaint, not aimed at this episode in particular, is the music... it's constantly stamping you in the ears "LISTEN TO ME LISTEN TO ME NOW LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW LISTEN TO ME AAARRGGHH PAY MEEEE ATTENTIONNNNN". It fair does my head in, and is probably my least favourite thing about modern Who.
If DVDs without the 'music' cost £10 extra, I would happily happily pay it.
As I said previously, I have friends in their 20's who can't connect a laptopctp wifi, my friend Charlotte is 25, I'm always having to sort out the simplest of things from connecting her wifi, to updating software, windows, etc, so it's fairly common. Don't assume that just cos you don't know anyone that's like that, they don't exist.
I'm not sure how common it is, everyone I know or work with in their 20s or under have been taught how to use computers at school and seem to know them as well as I knew typewriters at their age, ie it's just 'there'. Maybe some can't get the hang of it despite that (I sympathise but then I'm a lot older) but I would have thought 99.9% of school children over the last 10 years would have been taught it.
I'm not sure how common it is, everyone I know or work with in their 20s or under have been taught how to use computers at school and seem to know them as well as I knew typewriters at their age, ie it's just 'there'. Maybe some can't get the hang of it despite that (I sympathise but then I'm a lot older) but I would have thought 99.9% of school children over the last 10 years would have been taught it.
Well out of all my female friends, about 80% are clueless with computers, they are aged 23 to 32. So Clara in TBoSJ not being to good with computers wasn't odd.
Well out of all my female friends, about 80% are clueless with computers, they are aged 23 to 32. So Clara in TBoSJ not being to good with computers wasn't odd.
I'm an I.T. technician and have worked in schools.. it's not odd at all
Loved the episode, loved it loved it loved it. My favourite one in A-G-E-S. I even chuckled at the awful Tom Tom joke.
My one complaint, not aimed at this episode in particular, is the music... it's constantly stamping you in the ears "LISTEN TO ME LISTEN TO ME NOW LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW LISTEN TO ME AAARRGGHH PAY MEEEE ATTENTIONNNNN". It fair does my head in, and is probably my least favourite thing about modern Who.
If DVDs without the 'music' cost £10 extra, I would happily happily pay it.
I've never had this issue, I think the music is what makes the show what it is.
I wonder if its because we've got so used to Amy's yap yap yapping all the time, with her strong and hard to ignore accent, that Clara's Dialogue seems to get lost and almost go un-noticed in comparison.Sometimes I miss her lines altogether, but that maybe because of the fact I'm hard of hearing in my left ear and the instramental music is so blinking loud at times.
I think I've heard everything she's said. It's just that there's not much to listen to beyond the regular things any companion needs to say during events and the sitcom banter, which can be funny and make for a good "moment", but leaves me rather cold. Probably why I could never get into "Friends". All those snappy one liners in place of conversations. Clever, witty but not actually things people say.
I often use the Clear Voice audio setting on my telly for Doctor Who. It really helps. I like the music - it is good quality. But it often drowns the dialogue for me. Luckily Clear Voice usually fixes things for me, so no problem.
But what the point of preserving them when the whole point was to get rid of humanity?
She wasn't. She was doing her own version of The Flood. She had hand picked visually (and morally) pleasing people to preserve and wanted to kill everyone else. So she "pickled" her chosen ones and kept them in glass jars, ready to be revived once everyone else had been poisoned by the deadly version of the Crimson Horror. The chosen ones were dipped in a milder form.
This is why she got everyone to sing Jeruselum at the start. She took it all too literally - as a chemist and engineer she really was going to "build" Jeruselum.
Comments
That gun wasn't but Derringers were being made from mid 19th century, so it was possible to make them that small.
I wonder if it's because to me she just doesn't have much 'real' personal interraction with the Doctor, He's fascinated with her because of the previous Claras, but from the start it's as if we see her when she's been travelling with him for a while, not particularly asking questions, just making smart remarks and the odd moment of realisation that it's serious and not all fun, which she then loses pretty quickly. Victorian Clara was fine, this one just leaves me cold. Although she had her moments with the chair and the chimney on Saturday for me it was the better for her being more in the background.
Bu the way I've seen the 'Lancashire, sass' line transcribed as 'Lancashire, south.' TBH when I watched it again I deliberately listened and it could have been either.
I know a few people like this, in their 20's, it's not that ridiculous.....
Not knowing how to connect to a Wi-Fi network is just lack of knowledge, not lack of intelligence. I've done enough computer support to know that this is not that unlikely.
In any case, it wasn't just the downloaded skills that enabled her to find the Shard it was genius-level application of those skills (skills she would never have had if she wasn't high enough intelligence to have been selected for upload in the first place).
Either way, however she got the skills, the fact remains that it was Clara who found the Shard and, therefore Clara who directly influenced the resolution of that episode. She didn't spend the episode standing around looking pretty as you allege.
She cleverly deduced that the implications of infinite lost potential in the leaf could fill up the sun-thing far better than any finite number of memories, no matter how numerous. That was genius-level deduction that out-thought the Doctor. The fact that you didn't understand it only shows just how much more of a genius Clara is! She was patently the reason they succeeded in that episode, she was no bystander no matter how much you dislike the episode.
I disagree. It was her reminding the Ice Warrior of his daughter which finally mellowed him, in my opinion. I don't think that episode would have turned out so well if it weren't for her intervention.
I don't deny Emma's contribution to that episode but I completely disagree that the TARDIS would have rescued the Doctor any way. It was just standing there tolling its cloister bell. It was only Clara's ability to motivate it which caused it to risk almost certain destruction in a rescue attempt.
That's precisely the sort of thing that most people don't notice, as evidenced by the fact that nobody else did! No way they would have stopped the rocket in time if she hadn't made that deduction.
It's true she didn't appear too much in that episode but it was deliberately Doctor lite and, as such, Clara lite so that was to be expected. She was the one who smashed the machine with a chair, though. That's hardly standing around looking pretty.
Which is why I didn't argue it. It's the only episde she didn't, however, IMO, and she was hardly standing still looking pretty in that one, either. She was the damsel in distress in that one and doing a lot of running around.
Sorry, I just don't see it. Not remotely nondescript, in my eyes. Don't get that at all.
The doctor programs the Scanner to recognise "Sass", not sure if he would need to program it to recognise "South"
There's nothing about her I dislike as such. But they haven't drawn a memorable character yet.
Yet people will continue to ignore all of this and still spout the same rubbish.
I wonder if its because we've got so used to Amy's yap yap yapping all the time, with her strong and hard to ignore accent, that Clara's Dialogue seems to get lost and almost go un-noticed in comparison.Sometimes I miss her lines altogether, but that maybe because of the fact I'm hard of hearing in my left ear and the instramental music is so blinking loud at times.
Have you tried pressing the 'subtitles' button?
Of course not knowing how a computer works isn't a lack of intelligence, however, Clara is what, 24/26? That's my age group. She's clearly white middle class, had a decent education etc. She would have used computers at school. The only reason to make her so clueless was because they needed her to do a 180 later on when she found out where the network was. I didn't like that. Yes, she found the Shard, so you can argue she played an important part in the episode, the point is, she didn't save everyone because she's actually a genius or because growing up she loved taking apart and building computers or something. It's because the knowledge was downloaded into her. You can't see why that's disappointing? I get that Clara's a mystery but if you asked me what kind of character she is, apart from the 'she's typically sassy', I couldn't really tell you.
To the bolded: not really. I understood the whole leaf plot point just fine. I just don't think the convoluted idea that the leaf held all these infinite, potential moments made any of the characters (or the writers of that episode) look good. I even cringed during the Doctors epic speech on that one, which has never happened before. I'm sorry but I don't think it made Clara look like a genius either. It was a stretch to believe the whole thing.
I'm not going to go through every point, this post is too long anyway - but with this latest episode, just because no one else mentioned the lack of smoke, doesn't mean its something that the rest of the characters would never have noticed without her. Its something that Jenny would have noticed immediately, given what we know of her character. For me, it felt like because the writers needed Clara to contribute in some way they gave her that line. Which is fine. But it's hardly much for her to do all episode - even if it was one where her and Doctor weren't the main focus. In comparison, Jenny, was fantastic and had a lot more chemistry in one single scene with the Doctor that I've seen for a while between Clara and the Doctor.
When I say Clara has become a bit nondescript, to me, she has. What's interesting about her, other than the fact that she's a mystery? It's boring to be told this girl's so intelligent, this girl's so feisty, nothing fazes her etc etc. She always has a clever one-liner to throw back at the Doctor, or when she's in danger. Perhaps there's a reason she's so blank when it comes to having a personality or any history - she had it in spades as a daleck and in Victorian London (the scene where she sees the Tardis for the first time and the doctor gives her a key is fantastic) but it doesn't make me want to watch her now.
I want to like Clara and I did the first 2 episodes she featured in, but I think she's given very little to go on each episode since then. I've seen quite a few posts of people saying the same thing, so clearly, its not just something I've picked up on.
Yes of course..and do allot, but its not the same..and I never had a problem hearing Amy.
Perhaps your ears are not attuned to the mellifluous cadences of the Lancashire accent.
I had the opposite problem, could never understand a word the Scottish girl was saying.
I leave subtitles on anyway as writers have a nasty habit of throwing in obscure references and without subtitles I'd be left wondering what the heck was that word they just used?
As I said previously, I have friends in their 20's who can't connect a laptopctp wifi, my friend Charlotte is 25, I'm always having to sort out the simplest of things from connecting her wifi, to updating software, windows, etc, so it's fairly common. Don't assume that just cos you don't know anyone that's like that, they don't exist.
Sigh. Mellifluous cadences.
My one complaint, not aimed at this episode in particular, is the music... it's constantly stamping you in the ears "LISTEN TO ME LISTEN TO ME NOW LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW LISTEN TO ME AAARRGGHH PAY MEEEE ATTENTIONNNNN". It fair does my head in, and is probably my least favourite thing about modern Who.
If DVDs without the 'music' cost £10 extra, I would happily happily pay it.
I'm not sure how common it is, everyone I know or work with in their 20s or under have been taught how to use computers at school and seem to know them as well as I knew typewriters at their age, ie it's just 'there'. Maybe some can't get the hang of it despite that (I sympathise but then I'm a lot older) but I would have thought 99.9% of school children over the last 10 years would have been taught it.
Well out of all my female friends, about 80% are clueless with computers, they are aged 23 to 32. So Clara in TBoSJ not being to good with computers wasn't odd.
I'm an I.T. technician and have worked in schools.. it's not odd at all
It was to preserve them after the apocalypse Mrs
Gillyflower was planning.
I've never had this issue, I think the music is what makes the show what it is.
Wouldn't be the same without it.
Haha thanks for backing me up
I think I've heard everything she's said. It's just that there's not much to listen to beyond the regular things any companion needs to say during events and the sitcom banter, which can be funny and make for a good "moment", but leaves me rather cold. Probably why I could never get into "Friends". All those snappy one liners in place of conversations. Clever, witty but not actually things people say.
I often use the Clear Voice audio setting on my telly for Doctor Who. It really helps. I like the music - it is good quality. But it often drowns the dialogue for me. Luckily Clear Voice usually fixes things for me, so no problem.
She wasn't. She was doing her own version of The Flood. She had hand picked visually (and morally) pleasing people to preserve and wanted to kill everyone else. So she "pickled" her chosen ones and kept them in glass jars, ready to be revived once everyone else had been poisoned by the deadly version of the Crimson Horror. The chosen ones were dipped in a milder form.
This is why she got everyone to sing Jeruselum at the start. She took it all too literally - as a chemist and engineer she really was going to "build" Jeruselum.