its a good job 'jackson' had plenty of money then...an 'innocent' man that he was:D
sorry mate you are entitled to your opinion of course,but i believe you are deluding yourself.....jackson was into 'young boys'....im surprised you still cant see that,ask around outside your own bubble.....most of the level thinking world think he was a weirdo with a sick interest in young boys.
its a good job 'jackson' had plenty of money then...an 'innocent' man that he was:D
sorry mate you are entitled to your opinion of course,but i believe you are deluding yourself.....jackson was into 'young boys'....im surprised you still cant see that,ask around outside your own bubble.....most of the level thinking world think he was a weirdo with a sick interest in young boys.
I think my last post went completely over your head.
Maybe you should read the court documents for yourself then come back and tell us your opinion once you've seen the evidence, instead of just relying on gossip and hearsay.
utter nonsense.
sometimes and especially in 'child abuse' evidence is very hard to come by...it usually comes down to the childs word against the abuser.........what you do have to do is put the evidence that is available together...'jackson' spent too much time with young boys FACT..jackson 'paid off' huge sums of money to silence alleged victims FACT .....that will do for me......perhaps you will wake up and realise you have been duped by your idolisation of his 'completely dated' and 'overated' music.
It's not utter nonsense, I'm not saying that ever person who say's they've being sexually abused is lying but a lot do use it as a weapon.
Yes I have put the evidence together, I've read the court transcripts, can you say the same?
First of all MJ didn't just spend time with young boys, he spent time with children AND their families. The whole "MJ only hung around with young boys concept" was the story concocted by the media. He never had random kids popping in & out of his house.
MJ never paid off large sums of money to loads of "victims", as I said earlier it was his insurance company who paid the money to the Chandlers, they would have paid it no matter what MJ wanted bc they would have lost way more money if MJ had to drop out of his tour & go to trial.
I should wake up? Who ever said I idolize him? I don't think he was some saint, he did his fair share of wrong things but this isn't one of them. I'm standing up for someone who was quite blatantly falsely accused. I mean the FBI found nothing, 12 jurors didn't convict him, there was no evidence, qualified psychologists analysed him & said he did not fit the profile of a paedofile, and so many kids have come out and said MJ never did anything inappropriate to them and that he was a great guy, why should you know better?
Well there you go, you obviously dislike MJ in general, so I'm pretty much wasting my here, bc you obviously don't care about the facts. And you say I'm duped..............
I am so sorry,it appears i have it all wrong .Looking again now and after some very good pointers from other posters on here i can only conclude that 'michael jackson' is NOT a peadophile and has never been even close to dodgy behaviour with young boys...please forgive me ,how could i get it so wrong?.....shame on me..Thank god these 'jackson' defenders exist on here informing and enlightning us his very healthy and normal life.:rolleyes:
Unfortunately we shall never know now for sure if he did abuse children or not. If anything, if the claims are true I would hope that this encourages more victims to come forward. If not I hope Wade doesn't get a penny, still odd that even as an adult he is claiming for money not justice for himself or the other children that may have been abused.
But as for most of the level thinking world thinking he was a weirdo with a sick interest in young boys I suspect is not true as he would probably be thought of in the same way as Gary Glitter...
And there is no 'light abuse' it's just abuse.
I also think it's unfair to suggest that people are clouded by their 'love' of his music is just plain condescending. Maybe you are clouded by your hate for his music?
In fairness, the only way anyone who wanted to get justice for past abuses by someone now deceased could do so is by sueing their estate (the Jimmy Savile case being a recent example of this). That way, their accusations are heard and a verdict is handed down in a court of law. I would imagine that it would give any victim of abuse some satisfaction to get legal acknowledgement that they were abused by this person. Also, a civil case against someone's estate would give representatives of the estate the chance to question the accusations being made in a court of law.
With regards to money, if someone has been abused, a financial settlement would offer both a sense of justice and the means to pay for medical bills (counselling and psychiatric treatment don't come cheap) and help someone who is possibly struggling to, or unable to, work.
The way I see it, if Wade Robson is lying, then the best way to find that out is via a court case. Put him on the stand and see exactly how strong his case actually is.
Yes but the HUGE difference here is that MJ was tried Savile was not.
This person has already had their day in court,Saviles victims never have.So he and his family had their chance to 'get justice' in a courtroom many years ago.
This person has had ample opportunity over the years whilst Jackson was alive and since his death to make his claim but he didn't he continued to wax lyrical about what an inspirational person Jackson was in his life.
Sorry now but you're making up BS there. Joy Robson testified in court that her, her son & daughter would always go to Neverland together, she never "handed over her son to MJ". She was already friends with MIchael for 2 years before they ever went to Neverland for the first time. And again according to her own testimony MJ was only there 4 out of the around 50 times they went to Neverland. .
The first time Wade went to Neverland was with his Mother, Sister, Father and Grandparents, he says in 1989 on their first trip to America. Yes that was the first time Wade was handed over to Michael, along with his sister Chantel, but there were also apartments in Westwood and Century City.
Chunks of evidence from Wade on 5 May 2005...
24 Q. That’s your mother and you would stay at the
25 apartment in Westwood?
26 A. Yeah. That first time, I think a couple
27 times, sometimes I would stay by myself. Always --
28 I think -- sometimes -- most of the time my mother
1 and I went to the ranch together. I think once I
2 was there by myself without my mother.
Asked about that first visit to Neverland in 1989, by Tom Mesereau...
28 Q. When you first visited Neverland -- and I
1 think you said it was about a week you and your mom
2 stayed there?
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. Where did you stay?
5 A. I stayed in Michael’s room.
Q. And you stayed in Mr. Jackson’s room?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. The first time you were there?
18 A. Yes.
24 Q. And when do you recall your sister staying
25 in the room?
26 A. On that first trip, the first time we went
27 to Neverland.
When asked by the prosecution about when aged 7 he first slept with Michael Jackson he said his sister Chantel aged 10 was in the bed with them. Which is at odds with mum's evidence.
Century City
Q. All right. Were there ever occasions where
12 you went to visit Mr. Jackson when your mother
13 wasn’t there?
14 A. Yes. I think a couple of times he had an
15 apartment in Century City that my mother would drop
16 me off and I’d stay for, you know, a night or so by
17 myself with Michael there.
Westwood
Q. And would it be the case that periodically
3 you would visit him there, your mother would stay in
4 the hotel, but you would stay with him in his room?
5 A. One time when we came over, we stayed -- I
6 think it was the Westwood apartment, his Westwood
7 apartment. There was a Holiday Inn that was across
8 and we stayed there most of the time. And then
9 certain nights I would go over to Michael and stay
10 with him.
Recall Wade said on that first night at Neverland that he aged 7 and his sister aged 10 shared the same bed with 35 year old Denerol addict Michael Jackson.
Here's what his mum said...
Now, did you know that your son and daughter
9 spent the night with Mr. Jackson in his bed?
10 A. They did not.
11 Q. They did not.
12 A. They slept on the mezzanine level.
13 Q. That’s your belief?
14 A. That’s what they had told me.
Ooops!!
Chantal's account of that first night....
12 A. Michael and Wade slept -- Michael and Wade
13 slept downstairs and I slept upstairs on the first
14 night.
15 Q. All right. So Mr. Jackson and Wade slept
16 together separately from the area that you slept in?
Hang on, if he's said this under oath, is he not now admitting perjury, and therefore losing whatever he stands to gain by lying and saying Michael Jackson abused him...
I don't really see the point in him coming out and saying this, he doesn't gain anything, Jackson doesn't gain anything, and he's just shot any credibility he may have had
I don't really see the point in him coming out and saying this, he doesn't gain anything, Jackson doesn't gain anything, and he's just shot any credibility he may have had
err perhaps he was abused, and wants to feel like he has done the right thing in exposing a pervert?
Hang on, if he's said this under oath, is he not now admitting perjury, and therefore losing whatever he stands to gain by lying and saying Michael Jackson abused him...
I don't really see the point in him coming out and saying this, he doesn't gain anything, Jackson doesn't gain anything, and he's just shot any credibility he may have had
Guess it depends on his explaination, but it may never get to court?
Wade Robson had a breakdown a year ago.... are his mother and sister still around?
Wade Robson -- the famous choreographer who now claims Michael Jackson molested him for 7 years -- had a complete nervous breakdown in March, 2012 ... and that opened Pandora's box ... sources close to the Robson family tell TMZ.
Sources tell us after the breakdown, Robson went to a psychotherapist for several weeks ... and that's all it took for the floodgates to open. Robson then told his family Michael Jackson had molested him from ages 7 to 14.
I expect the warm hearted MJ fans to express their love and concern for Wade.
Why did MJ not get found guilty at the trial with all this evidence?
I don't actually know very much about the trial....
If you want to find out more about the 2005 i recommend a book by Aphrodite Jones - michael jackson conspiracy. she was a journalist who went to the trial believing he was guilty and was convinced of his innocence by the crazy witnesses. She was at the trial includes lots of evidence
If you want to find out more about the 2005 i recommend a book by Aphrodite Jones - michael jackson conspiracy. she was a journalist who went to the trial believing he was guilty and was convinced of his innocence by the crazy witnesses. She was at the trial includes lots of evidence
I don't believe for a single second that he is telling the truth. Every single person who has alleged that MJ molested them/behaved inappropriately has had some sort of dodgy background/history. None of them have been what you would call "normal" with no history or odd family issues. With regards to Wade Robson...he testified in defense of MJ and is now suddenly saying that he was molested by MJ!! Sorry, but even if he had been, who in their right mind would actually come clean about it after saying time and time again in court that MJ was innocent?! You would know that you would look like a complete idiot. He's doing it for money, just like all of the others. MJ paid off some of his accusers, in my opinion because he didn't want the embarrassment of court. I think this was MJ's biggest mistake as it made people then think he did it because he had something to hide. I think he just didn't want the embarrassment of the courts etc. What kind of a parent would except a pay off from someone who sexually abused their child? You would want that person in prison, not roaming the streets. The fact that the families accepted this money says it all in my opinion. Funny how since he has died, nobody has come forward and accused MJ...maybe due to the fact that they know it will be a lot more difficult to get money?!! Wade Roberson is the only guy, and once again, he's someone who doesn't exactly have a fantastic history/background. MJ was strange, had a number of issues and was very miss-understood. I don't think he ever sexually abused a child though. All in my opinion of course.
I don't know the details but Wade was the first witness called by the defence because they felt he was a strong witness.
I think Jackson was only charged with molesting one child Gavin, if the jury felt there wasn't enough to convict him then they'd have to say he was not guilty even if they believed Michael had molested another child mentioned during the trial.
Bizarrely someone Michael described as a 'professional swindler and pornographer' Marc Shaffael played an important part in Michael's defence team...making a rebuttal video, taking care of the accusers family, holding their passports and locking their furniture away.
I don't believe for a single second that he is telling the truth. Every single person who has alleged that MJ molested them/behaved inappropriately has had some sort of dodgy background/history. None of them have been what you would call "normal" with no history or odd family issues.
Sounds like you are suggesting the children were vunerable and could have been an ideal target...no father figure present.
Joy Robson seperated from her husband, June Chandler divorced so of on/off relationship with Dave.
Macaulay Culkin, didn't he have issues with his dad?
Jimmy Safechuck who with his mum accompanied Michael on tour in 1988, no father around?
Sounds like you are suggesting the children were vunerable and could have been an ideal target...no father figure present.
Joy Robson seperated from her husband, June Chandler divorced so of on/off relationship with Dave.
Macaulay Culkin, didn't he have issues with his dad?
Jimmy Safechuck who with his mum accompanied Michael on tour in 1988, no father around?
I'm not suggesting they were vulnerable. I'm suggesting that all of them have some sort of dodgy background/history which would make their allegations extremely questionable. For example, the Arvizo family. Janet Arvizo didn't even go to the Police to report any allegations of sexual abuse. Instead, she went straight to a lawyer. The same lawyer that managed to help Jordy Chandler (the first accuser) get a large out of court settlement in 1993. The family had a history of shoplifting. The mother once filed a lawsuit against a U.S clothing store after she was caught shoplifting. She claimed that when she was detained she was beaten. In the pictures she submitted with the lawsuit, bruises were shown on her body. However, in the mug shot taken of her it was noted there was not a scratch on her. A paralegal testified and said that she told him she had got the bruises from her husband. A psychiatrist who evaluated her found her to have rehearsed her children into supporting her story, and also found her to be "delusional" and "depressed". 2 years later she then claimed that she was sexually assaulted during her time being detained.
The father of Jordy Chandler was heard on tape saying: “If I go through with this, I win big-time. There’s no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever…”.
Now that's just the Arvizo family and the father of Jordy Chandler. If you look further there's even more of a criminal history with the father and the Arvizo children. That's just two examples. There's a dodgy background/history with every person who accused MJ. Nobody who accused him was what you would call normal or clean cut.
Also, with regards to Jordy Chandler, his father killed himself a couple of months after MJ died. Jordy has admitted that MJ didn't sexually abuse him and that his father made him lie. Not one single person attended the funeral of Jordy's father.
I'm not suggesting they were vulnerable. I'm suggesting that all of them have some sort of dodgy background/history which would make their allegations extremely questionable. For example, the Arvizo family. Janet Arvizo didn't even go to the Police to report any allegations of sexual abuse. Instead, she went straight to a lawyer. The same lawyer that managed to help Jordy Chandler (the first accuser) get a large out of court settlement in 1993. The family had a history of shoplifting. The mother once filed a lawsuit against a U.S clothing store after she was caught shoplifting. She claimed that when she was detained she was beaten. In the pictures she submitted with the lawsuit, bruises were shown on her body. However, in the mug shot taken of her it was noted there was not a scratch on her. A paralegal testified and said that she told him she had got the bruises from her husband. A psychiatrist who evaluated her found her to have rehearsed her children into supporting her story, and also found her to be "delusional" and "depressed". 2 years later she then claimed that she was sexually assaulted during her time being detained.
The father of Jordy Chandler was heard on tape saying: “If I go through with this, I win big-time. There’s no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever…”.
Now that's just the Arvizo family and the father of Jordy Chandler. If you look further there's even more of a criminal history with the father and the Arvizo children. That's just two examples. There's a dodgy background/history with every person who accused MJ. Nobody who accused him was what you would call normal or clean cut.
The argument could just as easily be made that the boys were targeted precisely because they came from dysfunctional backgrounds. A vulnerable boy lacking a solid father figure would probably be much easier to groom than a boy from a happy family and would be less likely to be believed if he did try to report anything.
Also, with regards to Jordy Chandler, his father killed himself a couple of months after MJ died. Jordy has admitted that MJ didn't sexually abuse him and that his father made him lie. Not one single person attended the funeral of Jordy's father.
When did Jordy admit that MJ didn't sexually abuse him and that his father made him lie?
The argument could just as easily be made that the boys were targeted precisely because they came from dysfunctional backgrounds. A vulnerable boy lacking a solid father figure would probably be much easier to groom than a boy from a happy family and would be less likely to be believed if he did try to report anything.
Master Ozzy just doesn't get it. The belief that Jordy declared Michael did not abuse him says it all.
Comments
sorry mate you are entitled to your opinion of course,but i believe you are deluding yourself.....jackson was into 'young boys'....im surprised you still cant see that,ask around outside your own bubble.....most of the level thinking world think he was a weirdo with a sick interest in young boys.
I think my last post went completely over your head.
Maybe you should read the court documents for yourself then come back and tell us your opinion once you've seen the evidence, instead of just relying on gossip and hearsay.
It's not utter nonsense, I'm not saying that ever person who say's they've being sexually abused is lying but a lot do use it as a weapon.
Yes I have put the evidence together, I've read the court transcripts, can you say the same?
First of all MJ didn't just spend time with young boys, he spent time with children AND their families. The whole "MJ only hung around with young boys concept" was the story concocted by the media. He never had random kids popping in & out of his house.
MJ never paid off large sums of money to loads of "victims", as I said earlier it was his insurance company who paid the money to the Chandlers, they would have paid it no matter what MJ wanted bc they would have lost way more money if MJ had to drop out of his tour & go to trial.
I should wake up? Who ever said I idolize him? I don't think he was some saint, he did his fair share of wrong things but this isn't one of them. I'm standing up for someone who was quite blatantly falsely accused. I mean the FBI found nothing, 12 jurors didn't convict him, there was no evidence, qualified psychologists analysed him & said he did not fit the profile of a paedofile, and so many kids have come out and said MJ never did anything inappropriate to them and that he was a great guy, why should you know better?
Well there you go, you obviously dislike MJ in general, so I'm pretty much wasting my here, bc you obviously don't care about the facts. And you say I'm duped..............
But as for most of the level thinking world thinking he was a weirdo with a sick interest in young boys I suspect is not true as he would probably be thought of in the same way as Gary Glitter...
And there is no 'light abuse' it's just abuse.
I also think it's unfair to suggest that people are clouded by their 'love' of his music is just plain condescending. Maybe you are clouded by your hate for his music?
Yes but the HUGE difference here is that MJ was tried Savile was not.
This person has already had their day in court,Saviles victims never have.So he and his family had their chance to 'get justice' in a courtroom many years ago.
This person has had ample opportunity over the years whilst Jackson was alive and since his death to make his claim but he didn't he continued to wax lyrical about what an inspirational person Jackson was in his life.
It stinks like last weeks leftovers.
The first time Wade went to Neverland was with his Mother, Sister, Father and Grandparents, he says in 1989 on their first trip to America. Yes that was the first time Wade was handed over to Michael, along with his sister Chantel, but there were also apartments in Westwood and Century City.
Chunks of evidence from Wade on 5 May 2005...
Asked about that first visit to Neverland in 1989, by Tom Mesereau...
When asked by the prosecution about when aged 7 he first slept with Michael Jackson he said his sister Chantel aged 10 was in the bed with them. Which is at odds with mum's evidence.
Century City
Westwood
Recall Wade said on that first night at Neverland that he aged 7 and his sister aged 10 shared the same bed with 35 year old Denerol addict Michael Jackson.
Here's what his mum said...
Ooops!!
Chantal's account of that first night....
Double ooops!
I don't really see the point in him coming out and saying this, he doesn't gain anything, Jackson doesn't gain anything, and he's just shot any credibility he may have had
err perhaps he was abused, and wants to feel like he has done the right thing in exposing a pervert?
I don't actually know very much about the trial....
Because Wade Robson lied? :cool:
Guess it depends on his explaination, but it may never get to court?
I expect the warm hearted MJ fans to express their love and concern for Wade.
Is that the main reason? Robson's testimony?
It was a genuine question...
If you want to find out more about the 2005 i recommend a book by Aphrodite Jones - michael jackson conspiracy. she was a journalist who went to the trial believing he was guilty and was convinced of his innocence by the crazy witnesses. She was at the trial includes lots of evidence
Thanks, sounds like an interesting read!
I don't know the details but Wade was the first witness called by the defence because they felt he was a strong witness.
I think Jackson was only charged with molesting one child Gavin, if the jury felt there wasn't enough to convict him then they'd have to say he was not guilty even if they believed Michael had molested another child mentioned during the trial.
Bizarrely someone Michael described as a 'professional swindler and pornographer' Marc Shaffael played an important part in Michael's defence team...making a rebuttal video, taking care of the accusers family, holding their passports and locking their furniture away.
Sounds like you are suggesting the children were vunerable and could have been an ideal target...no father figure present.
Joy Robson seperated from her husband, June Chandler divorced so of on/off relationship with Dave.
Macaulay Culkin, didn't he have issues with his dad?
Jimmy Safechuck who with his mum accompanied Michael on tour in 1988, no father around?
I'm not suggesting they were vulnerable. I'm suggesting that all of them have some sort of dodgy background/history which would make their allegations extremely questionable. For example, the Arvizo family. Janet Arvizo didn't even go to the Police to report any allegations of sexual abuse. Instead, she went straight to a lawyer. The same lawyer that managed to help Jordy Chandler (the first accuser) get a large out of court settlement in 1993. The family had a history of shoplifting. The mother once filed a lawsuit against a U.S clothing store after she was caught shoplifting. She claimed that when she was detained she was beaten. In the pictures she submitted with the lawsuit, bruises were shown on her body. However, in the mug shot taken of her it was noted there was not a scratch on her. A paralegal testified and said that she told him she had got the bruises from her husband. A psychiatrist who evaluated her found her to have rehearsed her children into supporting her story, and also found her to be "delusional" and "depressed". 2 years later she then claimed that she was sexually assaulted during her time being detained.
The father of Jordy Chandler was heard on tape saying: “If I go through with this, I win big-time. There’s no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever…”.
Now that's just the Arvizo family and the father of Jordy Chandler. If you look further there's even more of a criminal history with the father and the Arvizo children. That's just two examples. There's a dodgy background/history with every person who accused MJ. Nobody who accused him was what you would call normal or clean cut.
The argument could just as easily be made that the boys were targeted precisely because they came from dysfunctional backgrounds. A vulnerable boy lacking a solid father figure would probably be much easier to groom than a boy from a happy family and would be less likely to be believed if he did try to report anything.
When did Jordy admit that MJ didn't sexually abuse him and that his father made him lie?
He didn't, but lots of people posted online that he did in the aftermath of Jackson's death.
Master Ozzy just doesn't get it. The belief that Jordy declared Michael did not abuse him says it all.