He was nice to Mrs Dingley too, which is fairly rare!
Yes, but he also had to realise that Mrs Dingley provoced compassion to get herself out of trouble. That experience could backfire on his attempts to feel for others.
Lots of stuff on Twitter today - but not about filming. Apparently there was a Doc Martin question on a media exam. Lots of tweets from different people about that question.
Also, someone attended a Buckham Fair meeting and met the newest Clunes dog! A Jack Russell/chihuahua mix.
Hm. The name of the first Jack Russell turned out to be quite significant (James Henry). Someone needs to find out the name of this new one, the "Jackhauhau"!
I realy don't think for his carreer but rather takes refuge in it. After all, Lousia has made it clear during the whole S4 that DM was not to be involved. And now she just left him - again.
I'm sorry -- dense today. Can you say more about your first sentence?
I think in S4 he was perhaps seeking refuge in his career, but in S5 it seems more like a deliberate choice to just continue on to London (taking Louisa and JH with him if possible). It really didn't seem like he gave even a minute's thought to trying to get out of his contract with Imperial.
And that very morning she had showed up at his back door wanting his input on details of planning for the christening. So she was over not wanting him involved (if that was ever her real feeling and not just a defensive sputtering). Even if they stayed in the village, but not as a couple, I think she would still have welcomed his involvement.
I think she really does feel that he is choosing his career over his son , and later insists that he come back to visit every weekend, and not "mess him about" by being inconsistent and failing to show up when promised.
Since she was the one who did leave him again, maybe she is not being entirely rational here. But he made no great effort to sort things out with her, either.
I am wondering if MC's diet/exercise plan has run amok. I worked with a woman years ago who dropped alot of weight in a short span of time, leading to an eating disorder and hospitalization.
Entirely my thoughts. That's what I find so worrisome. He simply looks sick.
I even worry a bit that it might put me off the next season a bit. He turned a handsome looking man into a starved shadow.
The problem is that you always get compliments for losing weight, and that can make you unaware where to stop.
I knew people who went on an on despite better judgement.
There's also the other way around, and you lose weight because of a serious illness, and everyone's complimenting on your "good diet". I've seen that happen, too.
Our society is just too much fixated on a BMI, not what fits that particular person.
This, and the scene where he breaks the news to Martin about Auntie Joan's death may be Penhale's finest hour as a copper. It's one of the things which makes me like the Cats and Sharks episode. I'd love to see them give us more evidence of his compassion mixed in, of course, with ample evidence of his inanity and insecurity, in the next season.
I have to admit Penhale never did it to me, but he certainly grew on me the last season. Also the way he was with Maggie. He's a moron, but an honest bloke.
I'm sorry -- dense today. Can you say more about your first sentence?
I think in S4 he was perhaps seeking refuge in his career, but in S5 it seems more like a deliberate choice to just continue on to London (taking Louisa and JH with him if possible). It really didn't seem like he gave even a minute's thought to trying to get out of his contract with Imperial.
And that very morning she had showed up at his back door wanting his input on details of planning for the christening. So she was over not wanting him involved (if that was ever her real feeling and not just a defensive sputtering). Even if they stayed in the village, but not as a couple, I think she would still have welcomed his involvement.
I think she really does feel that he is choosing his career over his son , and later insists that he come back to visit every weekend, and not "mess him about" by being inconsistent and failing to show up when promised.
Since she was the one who did leave him again, maybe she is not being entirely rational here. But he made no great effort to sort things out with her, either.
Actually, I have to admit that I do see S4 and S5 as a whole here. I think it's safe to say we both agree the refuge bit is true for S4.
He then stays tentatively, just for the night. Then AJ dies. Then he has to prepare the funeral, and all the while he keeps postponing the London job. I very much doubt that he has given the Imperial job much thought all this time.
Then he finds himself being stuck as GP for further two months, which also requires major re-organisation for him.
Before all this has settled, Louisa has offered to go to London with him.
From that point on, there is no need for him to re-think his job at Imperial. He can have the cake and eat it.
Only when Louisa leaves him again, he has to face to go to London alone, again. Then AR's comment about staying together for the child's sake gets new meaning. Then he has to think about visiting arrangements. But on the other hand, it doesn't make sense to give up a job you longed for for a failed relationship.
Actually, I was quite astonished how easily he gave in to visit JH "most weekends - definitely". It's a hell of a journey and he would spend hours on the train, or if he's really Bodmin in the car, to get to and fro London. Combined with a stressful and demanding job, that is quite a commitment. But he agreed without hesitation, indicating for me that this is what he wants, too.
One last comment to Louisa's expectations - did she really expect him to be around to get her out of trouble, help with JH and generally come to her whenever she calls when he has nothing to gain, but only to lose? Did she expect him to stay in Portwenn to be on call when he had the chance of his lifetime to go back to "what he is really good at"?
Actually, I have to admit that I do see S4 and S5 as a whole here. I think it's safe to say we both agree the refuge bit is true for S4.
He then stays tentatively, just for the night. Then AJ dies. Then he has to prepare the funeral, and all the while he keeps postponing the London job. I very much doubt that he has given the Imperial job much thought all this time.
Then he finds himself being stuck as GP for further two months, which also requires major re-organisation for him.
Before all this has settled, Louisa has offered to go to London with him.
From that point on, there is no need for him to re-think his job at Imperial. He can have the cake and eat it.
Only when Louisa leaves him again, he has to face to go to London alone, again. Then AR's comment about staying together for the child's sake gets new meaning. Then he has to think about visiting arrangements. But on the other hand, it doesn't make sense to give up a job you longed for for a failed relationship.
Actually, I was quite astonished how easily he gave in to visit JH "most weekends - definitely". It's a hell of a journey and he would spend hours on the train, or if he's really Bodmin in the car, to get to and fro London. Combined with a stressful and demanding job, that is quite a commitment. But he agreed without hesitation, indicating for me that this is what he wants, too.
One last comment to Louisa's expectations - did she really expect him to be around to get her out of trouble, help with JH and generally come to her whenever she calls when he has nothing to gain, but only to lose? Did she expect him to stay in Portwenn to be on call when he had the chance of his lifetime to go back to "what he is really good at"?
in reply to your last sentence Yes, he said it in the last season last episode "none of it matters to me"
in reply to your last sentence Yes, he said it in the last season last episode "none of it matters to me"
Sure, but we are still at S5E7 in the re-watch. At that point, the situation is different for him.
Even when I am a bit ahead of the re-watch now, but I thought something happened to him when JP, AR, LG and DM were chasing the child and Louisa declared firmly that she wouldn't waste her energy on some emotional outbursts but would just concentrate on getting JH back. DM looks over and then his composure changes.
Maybe that's when he recognised the Louisa from Series 1 who had already the map on hand when he asked for it to trace down the boy with the suspected appendicitis.
Sure, but we are still at S5E7 in the re-watch. At that point, the situation is different for him.
Even when I am a bit ahead of the re-watch now, but I thought something happened to him when JP, AR, LG and DM were chasing the child and Louisa declared firmly that she wouldn't waste her energy on some emotional outbursts but would just concentrate on getting JH back. DM looks over and then his composure changes.
Maybe that's when he recognised the Louisa from Series 1 who had already the map on hand when he asked for it to trace down the boy with the suspected appendicitis.
I agree with you. I also think that moment was the turning point for him with regards to their relationship. I think he knew at that moment that he wanted her in his life, no matter what it took to keep her in his life. That is the reason for the camera shot on him at that moment. He saw her inner strength. His speech at the castle showed that he clearly wants to do whatever it takes to be with her.
Now, let's hope the writers and producers remember what he said in that speech, and won't have him regress back from that commitment and resolve. And, let's hope they give us more of the Louisa who was in the car and at the castle than the Louisa who is the unappreciative shrew.
Actually, I have to admit that I do see S4 and S5 as a whole here. I think it's safe to say we both agree the refuge bit is true for S4.
He then stays tentatively, just for the night. Then AJ dies. Then he has to prepare the funeral, and all the while he keeps postponing the London job. I very much doubt that he has given the Imperial job much thought all this time.
Then he finds himself being stuck as GP for further two months, which also requires major re-organisation for him.
Before all this has settled, Louisa has offered to go to London with him.
From that point on, there is no need for him to re-think his job at Imperial. He can have the cake and eat it.
Only when Louisa leaves him again, he has to face to go to London alone, again. Then AR's comment about staying together for the child's sake gets new meaning. Then he has to think about visiting arrangements. But on the other hand, it doesn't make sense to give up a job you longed for for a failed relationship.
Actually, I was quite astonished how easily he gave in to visit JH "most weekends - definitely". It's a hell of a journey and he would spend hours on the train, or if he's really Bodmin in the car, to get to and fro London. Combined with a stressful and demanding job, that is quite a commitment. But he agreed without hesitation, indicating for me that this is what he wants, too.
One last comment to Louisa's expectations - did she really expect him to be around to get her out of trouble, help with JH and generally come to her whenever she calls when he has nothing to gain, but only to lose? Did she expect him to stay in Portwenn to be on call when he had the chance of his lifetime to go back to "what he is really good at"?
Well, I do agree with most of this. Especially the part about commuting from London to Cornwall, which would be a huge commitment on his part to do it almost every weekend.
I do find it very hard to figure out what is really going on with either of them in S5.
We're thrown off a bit I think (or at least I am) by the "I was wrong about London" line. He was certainly wrong in my view to continue on with his plans for London and to accept the job without consulting at all with Louisa. Really, he didn't push very hard to get past her seeming resistance to involve him with the baby, and he wouldn't have had to push that hard..
But once on that track, I think he is not easily derailed from a path he has chosen -- he's now fully in London mode, and while he wants LG and JH, his way forward is to include them in his plans, instead of at all having a re-think about what he actually wants to do at this point. I'm not blaming him really -- why not try to have your cake and eat it too? We all do it. One could even argue that he actually was at some level dragging his heels about leaving them -- he did dally around until it was to late to leave that night, and he did (apparently) agree to stick around an extra week to give Chris Parsons a chance to find a replacement. So, I think he may have been conflicted, but not at a conscious level.
And that is a major real dilemma -- he loves his surgery career in London, she loves her life in Portwenn. That dilemma may never be fully resolved.
I agree that Louisa's expectations of him are unrealistic. Perhaps they always have been. But she is right (again in my view) on this point: he HAS chosen to pursue his career in London as a surgeon, rather than stay in the village and be a father to his son. At that point, I don't think he was ready to make the "every weekend" commitment. That came later after other stuff happened. I can even grant that it may have been the RIGHT decision for him, given how painful it may have been to stay in a village he dislikes, and still at odds with the woman that he loves.
In that scene with Aunt Ruth, and generally after she walked out, I think wounded pride has a lot to do with his decision not to try to sort things out -- that and perhaps a sense of hopelessness, because he just doesn't get what she wants from him.
DM's feelings began to change a bit too? He was much nicer to her this ep, especially when he explained the operation procedure.
Understandably upset over her mother's farming out of JH. :eek:
He was nice to Mrs Dingley too, which is fairly rare!
He was kind and professional to her when explaining the procedure, and reassuring when she was leaving with her mother in the ambulance. Although I don't understand why he didn't take the baby - an infant probably shouldn't be in a hospital. But it was needed for the story line so I can forgive them for that.
When she comes to his back door at the final scene, they really don't know what to say to one another. I think she figured that his getting through the procedure probably cemented the plans for him to return to London. I don't like the way that scene is directed, the camera shots are too quick and we don't really get to see their expressions long enough to figure out what is going on between them. I think he didn't like that she was still attached to her mother - checking out how the theme night was going at her mother's request. I think that turned him off. I have watched that scene about 1 million times and I'm still not sure what it's all about.
I agree with you. I also think that moment was the turning point for him with regards to their relationship. I think he knew at that moment that he wanted her in his life, no matter what it took to keep her in his life. That is the reason for the camera shot on him at that moment. He saw her inner strength. His speech at the castle showed that he clearly wants to do whatever it takes to be with her.
Now, let's hope the writers and producers remember what he said in that speech, and won't have him regress back from that commitment and resolve. And, let's hope they give us more of the Louisa who was in the car and at the castle than the Louisa who is the unappreciative shrew.
Do I remember rightly that she said "get OUR baby back" and not "MY baby?" I think that caught his attention to0.
He was kind and professional to her when explaining the procedure, and reassuring when she was leaving with her mother in the ambulance. Although I don't understand why he didn't take the baby - an infant probably shouldn't be in a hospital. But it was needed for the story line so I can forgive them for that.
When she comes to his back door at the final scene, they really don't know what to say to one another. I think she figured that his getting through the procedure probably cemented the plans for him to return to London. I don't like the way that scene is directed, the camera shots are too quick and we don't really get to see their expressions long enough to figure out what is going on between them. I think he didn't like that she was still attached to her mother - checking out how the theme night was going at her mother's request. I think that turned him off. I have watched that scene about 1 million times and I'm still not sure what it's all about.
I thought she was fishing for a way back in, somehow, without actually having to say that she was wrong to walk out -- again. I think she was trying to be nice, and apologize sort of for her accusation of the morning by showing that she understood how important surgery was to him. But she was very awkward.
I hadn't thought about the mention of her mother turning him off. I have wondered whether he knew what she was trying to do and decided that he wasn't going there, or was just oblivious. I lean toward oblivous, plus now annoyed about her attachment to her mother.
I thought she was fishing for a way back in, somehow, without actually having to say that she was wrong to walk out -- again. I think she was trying to be nice, and apologize sort of for her accusation of the morning by showing that she understood how important surgery was to him. But she was very awkward.
I hadn't thought about the mention of her mother turning him off. I have wondered whether he knew what she was trying to do and decided that he wasn't going there, or was just oblivious. I lean toward oblivous, plus now annoyed about her attachment to her mother.
I agree with you completely, NewPark. She was fishing.for, well, I'm not sure, something. Maybe she hoped he would come with her to Bert's (fat chance) or maybe she wanted him to invite her in or maybe she hoped that after going to Bert's he would want her to come in and talk. Actually, I think we're not sure what she was fishing for because she didn't know what she was fishing for. a reconciliation of some kind, I think (just SAY IT, Louisa!). It was obvious, however, when he called her back to the door that she was expecting or hoping for something. When he simply asked her to ask Bert to turn down the music, that animated purse dropped down and she got "that" look on her face.
I also didn't see any signs that the mention of LG's mother turned off the Doc. In fact, when LG said he had saved her life, he almost enthusiastically said, "And her bowel". I think he was just oblivious that LG was fishing for/hoping for any kind of reconciliation in that moment.
Now, let's hope the writers and producers remember what he said in that speech, and won't have him regress back from that commitment and resolve. And, let's hope they give us more of the Louisa who was in the car and at the castle than the Louisa who is the unappreciative shrew.
You're referring to what they did to us between the final ep of S4 and E1 of S5, in which both DM and LG apparently completely forgot that emotional "I was wrong" scene in the pub. In a way it did serve to bring them back together, but then they both proceeded into S5 with the assumption that he's going to London and nothing really is going to change.
Surely they aren't going to do that kind of thing to us again. Surely! They wouldn't dare. In fact, all spoiler signs are pointing us in a satisfactory (to me) direction. At least that's how things look now.
I agree with you completely, NewPark. She was fishing.for, well, I'm not sure, something. Maybe she hoped he would come with her to Bert's (fat chance) or maybe she wanted him to invite her in or maybe she hoped that after going to Bert's he would want her to come in and talk. Actually, I think we're not sure what she was fishing for because she didn't know what she was fishing for. a reconciliation of some kind, I think (just SAY IT, Louisa!). It was obvious, however, when he called her back to the door that she was expecting or hoping for something. When he simply asked her to ask Bert to turn down the music, that animated purse dropped down and she got "that" look on her face.
I also didn't see any signs that the mention of LG's mother turned off the Doc. In fact, when LG said he had saved her life, he almost enthusiastically said, "And her bowel". I think he was just oblivious that LG was fishing for/hoping for any kind of reconciliation in that moment.
She tells him the reason she needs him to look after the baby is because her mother asked her to check in on the theme night at the restaurant. He has a disappointed look when she says that. I think the music bothered him in general but was particularly bothersome since it was attached to Eleanor somehow. He was so done with Eleanor by then - that's why it is so significant that he could be this gentle professional surgeon and save the life (and the bowel) of the woman who has endangered his child and driven a wedge between him and the woman he loves.
Of course, it is significant that he not only saved her life but also her bowel. It is a quality of life issue and shows that he really does care about people despite himself. He is so professional in that episode, he really shows his true colors in that regard.
I have stopped and started this scene at every nanosecond trying to figure it out.
I agree with you completely, NewPark. She was fishing.for, well, I'm not sure, something. Maybe she hoped he would come with her to Bert's (fat chance) or maybe she wanted him to invite her in or maybe she hoped that after going to Bert's he would want her to come in and talk. Actually, I think we're not sure what she was fishing for because she didn't know what she was fishing for. a reconciliation of some kind, I think (just SAY IT, Louisa!). It was obvious, however, when he called her back to the door that she was expecting or hoping for something. When he simply asked her to ask Bert to turn down the music, that animated purse dropped down and she got "that" look on her face.
I also didn't see any signs that the mention of LG's mother turned off the Doc. In fact, when LG said he had saved her life, he almost enthusiastically said, "And her bowel". I think he was just oblivious that LG was fishing for/hoping for any kind of reconciliation in that moment.
Actually I do feel for Louisa in this situation. Even if she did want to reconcile, how awkward would it be to come and say, I was wrong for leaving and can we talk about how to put things right? Because what if he said no, we probably shouldn't try again? So she was stuck with trying to be subtle with a man on whom such subtlety is lost.
Well, I do agree with most of this. Especially the part about commuting from London to Cornwall, which would be a huge commitment on his part to do it almost every weekend.
I do find it very hard to figure out what is really going on with either of them in S5.
We're thrown off a bit I think (or at least I am) by the "I was wrong about London" line. He was certainly wrong in my view to continue on with his plans for London and to accept the job without consulting at all with Louisa. Really, he didn't push very hard to get past her seeming resistance to involve him with the baby, and he wouldn't have had to push that hard..
But once on that track, I think he is not easily derailed from a path he has chosen -- he's now fully in London mode, and while he wants LG and JH, his way forward is to include them in his plans, instead of at all having a re-think about what he actually wants to do at this point. I'm not blaming him really -- why not try to have your cake and eat it too? We all do it. One could even argue that he actually was at some level dragging his heels about leaving them -- he did dally around until it was to late to leave that night, and he did (apparently) agree to stick around an extra week to give Chris Parsons a chance to find a replacement. So, I think he may have been conflicted, but not at a conscious level.
And that is a major real dilemma -- he loves his surgery career in London, she loves her life in Portwenn. That dilemma may never be fully resolved.
I agree that Louisa's expectations of him are unrealistic. Perhaps they always have been. But she is right (again in my view) on this point: he HAS chosen to pursue his career in London as a surgeon, rather than stay in the village and be a father to his son. At that point, I don't think he was ready to make the "every weekend" commitment. That came later after other stuff happened. I can even grant that it may have been the RIGHT decision for him, given how painful it may have been to stay in a village he dislikes, and still at odds with the woman that he loves.
In that scene with Aunt Ruth, and generally after she walked out, I think wounded pride has a lot to do with his decision not to try to sort things out -- that and perhaps a sense of hopelessness, because he just doesn't get what she wants from him.
I think that Martin's feelings about going to London stayed the same all through S5 in one way, but also evolved through S5 in another way.
Even though he told Louisa that he was wrong about leaving, I don't think he felt he had a choice in the matter because of the contract. Therefore, all through S5, his head was telling him that he was going there. At first it was now, then it became two weeks, and eventually it became two months. All of these delays due to circumstances beyond his control.
But what his heart was telling him evolved over those two months. He knew he loved Louisa after seeing the accident in the taxi and he tried several times to convince her to go with him to London. I think in his mind he felt that Louisa would eventually come to her senses and either agree to go with him or follow him after some time apart. His mind thinks logically and he probably though that if Louisa loved him she would realize that he had a contract to fulfill in London and if she wanted to be with him she would have to go there.
But what really evolved (and what I think will compel him to do whatever he needs to break that contract) was the love that he developed for his son. Being there for the birth and holding him (both in the pub and then in the hospital room) was the start for him. He immediately started the lobbying to persuade her to move with him to London. He also (probably subconsciously) delayed leaving his baby by offering to drive them back to Portwenn and then asking to stay the night. Both of these requests were made very uncharacteristically softly, almost pleadingly. Then of course came delays due to AJ's death, then Dr Dibbs' illness, and finally the need to stay for two months because of the logistics of his temporary replacement. During this time he began to really bond with his son and the longer this went on, the more dificult it was going to be to leave. But Louisa solved that for him by deciding to move with him. So through the end of E6 his attachment to his son continued to grow, but that was fine because there would not be a need for separation. In E7, not only was he facing the loss of Louisa, but also his son. I think that was why he said he would be back most weekends even though his head would tell him how crazy that idea was. But at this point he couldn't imagine not seeing James or Louisa as often as possible - and perhaps by not abandoning them maybe convince Louisa that they could make it together.
Finally, in E8 was the crisis when James was missing. He and Louisa worked well together to rescue him and that seemed to cement the strength of their partnership. And James being in harm's way was almost a parallel of the sight of the wrecked taxi. This all led to his heart overriding his head - something he had probably never experienced.
I think that Martin's feelings about going to London stayed the same all through S5 in one way, but also evolved through S5 in another way.
Even though he told Louisa that he was wrong about leaving, I don't think he felt he had a choice in the matter because of the contract. Therefore, all through S5, his head was telling him that he was going there. At first it was now, then it became two weeks, and eventually it became two months. All of these delays due to circumstances beyond his control.
But what his heart was telling him evolved over those two months. He knew he loved Louisa after seeing the accident in the taxi and he tried several times to convince her to go with him to London. I think in his mind he felt that Louisa would eventually come to her senses and either agree to go with him or follow him after some time apart. His mind thinks logically and he probably though that if Louisa loved him she would realize that he had a contract to fulfill in London and if she wanted to be with him she would have to go there.
But what really evolved (and what I think will compel him to do whatever he needs to break that contract) was the love that he developed for his son. Being there for the birth and holding him (both in the pub and then in the hospital room) was the start for him. He immediately started the lobbying to persuade her to move with him to London. He also (probably subconsciously) delayed leaving his baby by offering to drive them back to Portwenn and then asking to stay the night. Both of these requests were made very uncharacteristically softly, almost pleadingly. Then of course came delays due to AJ's death, then Dr Dibbs' illness, and finally the need to stay for two months because of the logistics of his temporary replacement. During this time he began to really bond with his son and the longer this went on, the more dificult it was going to be to leave. But Louisa solved that for him by deciding to move with him. So through the end of E6 his attachment to his son continued to grow, but that was fine because there would not be a need for separation. In E7, not only was he facing the loss of Louisa, but also his son. I think that was why he said he would be back most weekends even though his head would tell him how crazy that idea was. But at this point he couldn't imagine not seeing James or Louisa as often as possible - and perhaps by not abandoning them maybe convince Louisa that they could make it together.
Finally, in E8 was the crisis when James was missing. He and Louisa worked well together to rescue him and that seemed to cement the strength of their partnership. And James being in harm's way was almost a parallel of the sight of the wrecked taxi. This all led to his heart overriding his head - something he had probably never experienced.
Yes, I agree with almost all of that. Your "head versus heart" is a better way to put what was going on. And I think it was largely unconscious, since what is his basic problem? He really has difficulty admitting his softer impulses and acting on them -- as Ben Bolt explained in that clip, "the L-word is abhorrent to him." Maybe it's stretching a bit, but even his blood phobia developed as a way of defending against those feelings -- he just didn't want to be in a position where they might appear and affect his detachment as a surgeon.
So being able to operate on Eleanor -- who was very definitely "somebody's mother" -- was a real victory.
So his whole logical structure of going to London was being undermined, perhaps without him knowing it.
But, here's the exception -- I don't think he held out any hope that he could persuade Louisa to join him in London or to get back together with him on some basis. I think he felt too defeated in that regard -- but even though it would be painful to see and not have Louisa, he would still come to see his son. That's really admirable and progress for him.
Maybe Louisa had hopes that weekend visits would help them get back together and that was why she was so defensively aggressive about it (in next ep)?
Does anyone know where and when filming in and around Port Isaac will take place this week? Do they still post those notices around town, or do we depend on behind-the-hand conversations with the crew or locals?
We're thrown off a bit I think (or at least I am) by the "I was wrong about London" line. He was certainly wrong in my view to continue on with his plans for London and to accept the job without consulting at all with Louisa. Really, he didn't push very hard to get past her seeming resistance to involve him with the baby, and he wouldn't have had to push that hard..
I didn't expect him to break his contract just because he realised it was a mistake to sign it in the first place. He is a man of his word, and if he commits himself to this job, he has to go through with it. That doesn't stop him from feeling that he shouldn't have signed it.
For me, these are two different things.
The way I see DM, as soon as he has signed the contract, it's sealed. So he is commited and has to deliver. Even more so, as old colleagues have pulled strings to get him the job. He would let Robert down if he backtracked.
I disagree that at the time he made the decision of going to London he had to consult with Louisa. I didn't get the impression Louisa consulted with him when she left for London. She also didn't inform him about the pregnancy, not before it was inevitable at least.
When he signed the contract, I guess he could rightly say he was single, and therefore not commited to anyone.
Regarding him not doing anything about Lousia's rejection, I think it would be correct to expect more resistance from any man - but DM. He had formed himself to be independant and self-sufficient. He doesn't ask for favours, not even small ones. He doesn't ask for help. He doesn't beg to be part of someone's life.
If Louisa says he isn't to be involved, then he isn't.
I guess at that point he would mainly supported her out of duty. He had tender feelings for his unborn child in weak moments (the scan in the drawer), but his brain still succeeded in convinving him that Louisa and his child are better off without him. That he wouldn't be a good father.
I agree, Louisa just waited for DM to change his mind and wanted him to be involved, but due to the same angst to be rejected that DM has, she had a funny way of showing it. A turning point in that respect is for me when AJ picks up Louisa for the pre-natal, and he clumsily asks "Shouldn't I take you?"
Yes, his way of asking is a bit unfortunate, but if Louisa had said: "If you like, you can take me." we would have seen a completely different season.
Actually I do feel for Louisa in this situation. Even if she did want to reconcile, how awkward would it be to come and say, I was wrong for leaving and can we talk about how to put things right? Because what if he said no, we probably shouldn't try again? So she was stuck with trying to be subtle with a man on whom such subtlety is lost.
I agree that Louisa wanted some reconsiliation, but he wanted DM to make the first step. Invite her in. Start to talk. That's why she was so quick in turning around when he called her back.
He isn't the kind of man who tries to change private decisions of others. He accepts them and settles in his own little shell.
He also doesn't want to risk being rejected and hurt again. He has too many internal scars to risk one more. So, Louisa, you have to take the initiative, at least when it's important to you.
Comments
Yes, but he also had to realise that Mrs Dingley provoced compassion to get herself out of trouble. That experience could backfire on his attempts to feel for others.
Hm. The name of the first Jack Russell turned out to be quite significant (James Henry). Someone needs to find out the name of this new one, the "Jackhauhau"!
I'm sorry -- dense today. Can you say more about your first sentence?
I think in S4 he was perhaps seeking refuge in his career, but in S5 it seems more like a deliberate choice to just continue on to London (taking Louisa and JH with him if possible). It really didn't seem like he gave even a minute's thought to trying to get out of his contract with Imperial.
And that very morning she had showed up at his back door wanting his input on details of planning for the christening. So she was over not wanting him involved (if that was ever her real feeling and not just a defensive sputtering). Even if they stayed in the village, but not as a couple, I think she would still have welcomed his involvement.
I think she really does feel that he is choosing his career over his son , and later insists that he come back to visit every weekend, and not "mess him about" by being inconsistent and failing to show up when promised.
Since she was the one who did leave him again, maybe she is not being entirely rational here. But he made no great effort to sort things out with her, either.
Entirely my thoughts. That's what I find so worrisome. He simply looks sick.
I even worry a bit that it might put me off the next season a bit. He turned a handsome looking man into a starved shadow.
The problem is that you always get compliments for losing weight, and that can make you unaware where to stop.
I knew people who went on an on despite better judgement.
There's also the other way around, and you lose weight because of a serious illness, and everyone's complimenting on your "good diet". I've seen that happen, too.
Our society is just too much fixated on a BMI, not what fits that particular person.
I have to admit Penhale never did it to me, but he certainly grew on me the last season. Also the way he was with Maggie. He's a moron, but an honest bloke.
Sorry to quote myself, but I was too late to edit.
My suggestion - a strapless smile:p
Actually, I have to admit that I do see S4 and S5 as a whole here. I think it's safe to say we both agree the refuge bit is true for S4.
He then stays tentatively, just for the night. Then AJ dies. Then he has to prepare the funeral, and all the while he keeps postponing the London job. I very much doubt that he has given the Imperial job much thought all this time.
Then he finds himself being stuck as GP for further two months, which also requires major re-organisation for him.
Before all this has settled, Louisa has offered to go to London with him.
From that point on, there is no need for him to re-think his job at Imperial. He can have the cake and eat it.
Only when Louisa leaves him again, he has to face to go to London alone, again. Then AR's comment about staying together for the child's sake gets new meaning. Then he has to think about visiting arrangements. But on the other hand, it doesn't make sense to give up a job you longed for for a failed relationship.
Actually, I was quite astonished how easily he gave in to visit JH "most weekends - definitely". It's a hell of a journey and he would spend hours on the train, or if he's really Bodmin in the car, to get to and fro London. Combined with a stressful and demanding job, that is quite a commitment. But he agreed without hesitation, indicating for me that this is what he wants, too.
One last comment to Louisa's expectations - did she really expect him to be around to get her out of trouble, help with JH and generally come to her whenever she calls when he has nothing to gain, but only to lose? Did she expect him to stay in Portwenn to be on call when he had the chance of his lifetime to go back to "what he is really good at"?
in reply to your last sentence Yes, he said it in the last season last episode "none of it matters to me"
Sure, but we are still at S5E7 in the re-watch. At that point, the situation is different for him.
Even when I am a bit ahead of the re-watch now, but I thought something happened to him when JP, AR, LG and DM were chasing the child and Louisa declared firmly that she wouldn't waste her energy on some emotional outbursts but would just concentrate on getting JH back. DM looks over and then his composure changes.
Maybe that's when he recognised the Louisa from Series 1 who had already the map on hand when he asked for it to trace down the boy with the suspected appendicitis.
I agree with you. I also think that moment was the turning point for him with regards to their relationship. I think he knew at that moment that he wanted her in his life, no matter what it took to keep her in his life. That is the reason for the camera shot on him at that moment. He saw her inner strength. His speech at the castle showed that he clearly wants to do whatever it takes to be with her.
Now, let's hope the writers and producers remember what he said in that speech, and won't have him regress back from that commitment and resolve. And, let's hope they give us more of the Louisa who was in the car and at the castle than the Louisa who is the unappreciative shrew.
Well, I do agree with most of this. Especially the part about commuting from London to Cornwall, which would be a huge commitment on his part to do it almost every weekend.
I do find it very hard to figure out what is really going on with either of them in S5.
We're thrown off a bit I think (or at least I am) by the "I was wrong about London" line. He was certainly wrong in my view to continue on with his plans for London and to accept the job without consulting at all with Louisa. Really, he didn't push very hard to get past her seeming resistance to involve him with the baby, and he wouldn't have had to push that hard..
But once on that track, I think he is not easily derailed from a path he has chosen -- he's now fully in London mode, and while he wants LG and JH, his way forward is to include them in his plans, instead of at all having a re-think about what he actually wants to do at this point. I'm not blaming him really -- why not try to have your cake and eat it too? We all do it. One could even argue that he actually was at some level dragging his heels about leaving them -- he did dally around until it was to late to leave that night, and he did (apparently) agree to stick around an extra week to give Chris Parsons a chance to find a replacement. So, I think he may have been conflicted, but not at a conscious level.
And that is a major real dilemma -- he loves his surgery career in London, she loves her life in Portwenn. That dilemma may never be fully resolved.
I agree that Louisa's expectations of him are unrealistic. Perhaps they always have been. But she is right (again in my view) on this point: he HAS chosen to pursue his career in London as a surgeon, rather than stay in the village and be a father to his son. At that point, I don't think he was ready to make the "every weekend" commitment. That came later after other stuff happened. I can even grant that it may have been the RIGHT decision for him, given how painful it may have been to stay in a village he dislikes, and still at odds with the woman that he loves.
In that scene with Aunt Ruth, and generally after she walked out, I think wounded pride has a lot to do with his decision not to try to sort things out -- that and perhaps a sense of hopelessness, because he just doesn't get what she wants from him.
He was kind and professional to her when explaining the procedure, and reassuring when she was leaving with her mother in the ambulance. Although I don't understand why he didn't take the baby - an infant probably shouldn't be in a hospital. But it was needed for the story line so I can forgive them for that.
When she comes to his back door at the final scene, they really don't know what to say to one another. I think she figured that his getting through the procedure probably cemented the plans for him to return to London. I don't like the way that scene is directed, the camera shots are too quick and we don't really get to see their expressions long enough to figure out what is going on between them. I think he didn't like that she was still attached to her mother - checking out how the theme night was going at her mother's request. I think that turned him off. I have watched that scene about 1 million times and I'm still not sure what it's all about.
Do I remember rightly that she said "get OUR baby back" and not "MY baby?" I think that caught his attention to0.
I thought she was fishing for a way back in, somehow, without actually having to say that she was wrong to walk out -- again. I think she was trying to be nice, and apologize sort of for her accusation of the morning by showing that she understood how important surgery was to him. But she was very awkward.
I hadn't thought about the mention of her mother turning him off. I have wondered whether he knew what she was trying to do and decided that he wasn't going there, or was just oblivious. I lean toward oblivous, plus now annoyed about her attachment to her mother.
I agree with you completely, NewPark. She was fishing.for, well, I'm not sure, something. Maybe she hoped he would come with her to Bert's (fat chance) or maybe she wanted him to invite her in or maybe she hoped that after going to Bert's he would want her to come in and talk. Actually, I think we're not sure what she was fishing for because she didn't know what she was fishing for. a reconciliation of some kind, I think (just SAY IT, Louisa!). It was obvious, however, when he called her back to the door that she was expecting or hoping for something. When he simply asked her to ask Bert to turn down the music, that animated purse dropped down and she got "that" look on her face.
I also didn't see any signs that the mention of LG's mother turned off the Doc. In fact, when LG said he had saved her life, he almost enthusiastically said, "And her bowel". I think he was just oblivious that LG was fishing for/hoping for any kind of reconciliation in that moment.
She did say "our baby", which, considering the circumstances, was a Big Deal.
You're referring to what they did to us between the final ep of S4 and E1 of S5, in which both DM and LG apparently completely forgot that emotional "I was wrong" scene in the pub. In a way it did serve to bring them back together, but then they both proceeded into S5 with the assumption that he's going to London and nothing really is going to change.
Surely they aren't going to do that kind of thing to us again. Surely! They wouldn't dare. In fact, all spoiler signs are pointing us in a satisfactory (to me) direction. At least that's how things look now.
Yes, I am sure you are right about that. It was a great episode, perfectly written, directed and acted by everyone.
She tells him the reason she needs him to look after the baby is because her mother asked her to check in on the theme night at the restaurant. He has a disappointed look when she says that. I think the music bothered him in general but was particularly bothersome since it was attached to Eleanor somehow. He was so done with Eleanor by then - that's why it is so significant that he could be this gentle professional surgeon and save the life (and the bowel) of the woman who has endangered his child and driven a wedge between him and the woman he loves.
Of course, it is significant that he not only saved her life but also her bowel. It is a quality of life issue and shows that he really does care about people despite himself. He is so professional in that episode, he really shows his true colors in that regard.
I have stopped and started this scene at every nanosecond trying to figure it out.
Actually I do feel for Louisa in this situation. Even if she did want to reconcile, how awkward would it be to come and say, I was wrong for leaving and can we talk about how to put things right? Because what if he said no, we probably shouldn't try again? So she was stuck with trying to be subtle with a man on whom such subtlety is lost.
I think that Martin's feelings about going to London stayed the same all through S5 in one way, but also evolved through S5 in another way.
Even though he told Louisa that he was wrong about leaving, I don't think he felt he had a choice in the matter because of the contract. Therefore, all through S5, his head was telling him that he was going there. At first it was now, then it became two weeks, and eventually it became two months. All of these delays due to circumstances beyond his control.
But what his heart was telling him evolved over those two months. He knew he loved Louisa after seeing the accident in the taxi and he tried several times to convince her to go with him to London. I think in his mind he felt that Louisa would eventually come to her senses and either agree to go with him or follow him after some time apart. His mind thinks logically and he probably though that if Louisa loved him she would realize that he had a contract to fulfill in London and if she wanted to be with him she would have to go there.
But what really evolved (and what I think will compel him to do whatever he needs to break that contract) was the love that he developed for his son. Being there for the birth and holding him (both in the pub and then in the hospital room) was the start for him. He immediately started the lobbying to persuade her to move with him to London. He also (probably subconsciously) delayed leaving his baby by offering to drive them back to Portwenn and then asking to stay the night. Both of these requests were made very uncharacteristically softly, almost pleadingly. Then of course came delays due to AJ's death, then Dr Dibbs' illness, and finally the need to stay for two months because of the logistics of his temporary replacement. During this time he began to really bond with his son and the longer this went on, the more dificult it was going to be to leave. But Louisa solved that for him by deciding to move with him. So through the end of E6 his attachment to his son continued to grow, but that was fine because there would not be a need for separation. In E7, not only was he facing the loss of Louisa, but also his son. I think that was why he said he would be back most weekends even though his head would tell him how crazy that idea was. But at this point he couldn't imagine not seeing James or Louisa as often as possible - and perhaps by not abandoning them maybe convince Louisa that they could make it together.
Finally, in E8 was the crisis when James was missing. He and Louisa worked well together to rescue him and that seemed to cement the strength of their partnership. And James being in harm's way was almost a parallel of the sight of the wrecked taxi. This all led to his heart overriding his head - something he had probably never experienced.
Yes, I agree with almost all of that. Your "head versus heart" is a better way to put what was going on. And I think it was largely unconscious, since what is his basic problem? He really has difficulty admitting his softer impulses and acting on them -- as Ben Bolt explained in that clip, "the L-word is abhorrent to him." Maybe it's stretching a bit, but even his blood phobia developed as a way of defending against those feelings -- he just didn't want to be in a position where they might appear and affect his detachment as a surgeon.
So being able to operate on Eleanor -- who was very definitely "somebody's mother" -- was a real victory.
So his whole logical structure of going to London was being undermined, perhaps without him knowing it.
But, here's the exception -- I don't think he held out any hope that he could persuade Louisa to join him in London or to get back together with him on some basis. I think he felt too defeated in that regard -- but even though it would be painful to see and not have Louisa, he would still come to see his son. That's really admirable and progress for him.
Maybe Louisa had hopes that weekend visits would help them get back together and that was why she was so defensively aggressive about it (in next ep)?
I didn't expect him to break his contract just because he realised it was a mistake to sign it in the first place. He is a man of his word, and if he commits himself to this job, he has to go through with it. That doesn't stop him from feeling that he shouldn't have signed it.
For me, these are two different things.
The way I see DM, as soon as he has signed the contract, it's sealed. So he is commited and has to deliver. Even more so, as old colleagues have pulled strings to get him the job. He would let Robert down if he backtracked.
I disagree that at the time he made the decision of going to London he had to consult with Louisa. I didn't get the impression Louisa consulted with him when she left for London. She also didn't inform him about the pregnancy, not before it was inevitable at least.
When he signed the contract, I guess he could rightly say he was single, and therefore not commited to anyone.
Regarding him not doing anything about Lousia's rejection, I think it would be correct to expect more resistance from any man - but DM. He had formed himself to be independant and self-sufficient. He doesn't ask for favours, not even small ones. He doesn't ask for help. He doesn't beg to be part of someone's life.
If Louisa says he isn't to be involved, then he isn't.
I guess at that point he would mainly supported her out of duty. He had tender feelings for his unborn child in weak moments (the scan in the drawer), but his brain still succeeded in convinving him that Louisa and his child are better off without him. That he wouldn't be a good father.
I agree, Louisa just waited for DM to change his mind and wanted him to be involved, but due to the same angst to be rejected that DM has, she had a funny way of showing it. A turning point in that respect is for me when AJ picks up Louisa for the pre-natal, and he clumsily asks "Shouldn't I take you?"
Yes, his way of asking is a bit unfortunate, but if Louisa had said: "If you like, you can take me." we would have seen a completely different season.
I agree that Louisa wanted some reconsiliation, but he wanted DM to make the first step. Invite her in. Start to talk. That's why she was so quick in turning around when he called her back.
He isn't the kind of man who tries to change private decisions of others. He accepts them and settles in his own little shell.
He also doesn't want to risk being rejected and hurt again. He has too many internal scars to risk one more. So, Louisa, you have to take the initiative, at least when it's important to you.