Hardly. A scaffold tube is heavy and unwieldy. Against two opponents armed with cleavers and knives, you haven't the mobility to use one effectively.
The short ones -about 6ft are not that unweildy, particularly if you have well above average strength, as I do. Note that I said 'perhaps' I would have intervened. I would have had to weigh up the situation as I saw it. If both guys were busy attacking the soldier, a person with the advantage of surprise, swinging a heavy object, could possibly have made a difference!
The sad thing is...in most peoples' cases, once that first surge of adrenaline hits - rational decisionmaking goes RIGHT out the window. That's what happened in my case
...and people WILL make very silly decisions "under the influence" that sitting here, now, at a keyboard in the safety of their own homes they wouldn't ever dream of making! And thus get themselves into serious trouble...:(
The short ones -about 6ft are not that unweildy, particularly if you have well above average strength, as I do. Note that I said 'perhaps' I would have intervened. I would have had to weigh up the situation as I saw it. If both guys were busy attacking the soldier, a person with the advantage of surprise, swinging a heavy object, could possibly have made a difference!
Say you were armed with a samurai sword would you have intervened then? With a samurai sword you would have had the advantage of having a better reach so even if your not competent at wielding it you could have still kept them at a distance until the police arrived.
Say you were armed with a samurai sword would you have intervened then? With a samurai sword you would have had the advantage of having a better reach so even if your not competent at wielding it you could have still kept them at a distance until the police arrived.
Say you were armed with a samurai sword would you have intervened then? With a samurai sword you would have had the advantage of having a better reach so even if your not competent at wielding it you could have still kept them at a distance until the police arrived.
They had guns apparently, so the sword would be no better than a short scaffold pole or similar! I would be very unlikely to be carrying a sword anyway! That's just not something I would do.:)
I'd like to say yes because it wouldn't be the first time I've intervened in someone being viciously attacked (ok not as bad as this case), however the involvement of a gun would make me think twice.
Pretty sure I would have. I have been in situations where things have happened (thankfully not as terrible as this one, but often quite serious) and I have intervened.
I think you're either that type of person or you're not.You don't even think about it, it just happens.
I have intervened on numerous occasions, I guess I have been lucky I have not come to any harm. I just cannot stand a see something bad happening to a fellow human being. Something inside me takes control, I have no control of intervening, maybe one day it will be the death of me, who knows.
I guess I always think, that could be someone from my family, and would like to think someone would do the same if anything was happening to one of my family.
After the event, I have a bit of a rush, but it was worth it as it has stopped things being worst than they were.
Risk is one thing, foolhardiness is another. Good rescuers don't rashly endanger themselves. If ten people all rushed the attackers simultaneously, that buys a chance. One person, just utter madness.
I've given examples of some things that could have been done, even by one person. Because you wouldn't have done anything doesn't mean something couldn't have been done. All the effort you put into coming up with excuses says a lot.
As I said, many people today all around the world would be dead if rescuers headed your it's too risky advice.
I am. Your interpretation of what that is though is likely derived from watching too many movies, like your other offerings.
I think you a clearly the one watching "too many movies" with your silly John McClane remark and your derogatory and bizarre fixation on the word "hero."
I know a couple of people that have martial arts experience and I know both of them would have went in.
It says that you seem to be able to think you can predict what is going to happen and then apply some kind of retrospective action to it after the event.
That doesn't even make sense. As I said, if I feel I can do something then I will, as I have done many times before. That doesn't require me to be a time traveler. There are no guarantees in life. I've had knives and one gun pointed at me and I'm still here.
I know exactly what I would have not done, you're right. You don't seem to know very much at all, apart from what you imagine.
Then apparently it has only been in my imagination where I have intervened in the past. There are a few others who have recently stepped up and said they have intervened before. Was it only in their imagination too?
The short ones -about 6ft are not that unweildy, particularly if you have well above average strength, as I do. Note that I said 'perhaps' I would have intervened. I would have had to weigh up the situation as I saw it. If both guys were busy attacking the soldier, a person with the advantage of surprise, swinging a heavy object, could possibly have made a difference!
This is Britain, do that and you'd find yourself up in court on an assault charge.
No, I would have been terrified, but I would have phoned the police though.
What staggered me the most, apart from the obvious was a couple of people just sauntering past casually while one of the attackers ranted into a camera phone being held by someone else.
He had bloodied hands & a couple of knives & woman just walked past him. She did not even look at the dead body a few feet away & didn't seem a have a care in the world; in fact, 2 different women did this.
What is wrong with some people?
its safery mind your own business unless and just walk by and keep your head down.
So much for spending all that time becoming a martial arts expert.
I don't know what you think martial arts is, but what I train and teach has a philosophy of self-preservation. You have one life and you must value it. If you're in trouble, whether alone or out with your loved ones, if you get set upon, hopefully your training buys you a chance. But that's it, there's no guarantees. What you don't do however is put your own safety at risk needlessly. Ever. That's how have-a-go heroes get hurt and killed.
Imagining yourself as a bystander whipping out your pistol and taking down those bad guys is gung-ho. Armed response officers arriving with Heckler and Koch sub-machine guns is expected.
I see you are still stuck on the "hero" nonsense like a broken record. No, I want to die a person that does the right thing.
Because there's no rational explanation for wading in and taking on two nutters carrying knives, cleavers and a pistol. That's not doing the right thing, it's either you imagining yourself as some hero, or madness. I don't know which.
I've given examples of some things that could have been done, even by one person. Because you wouldn't have done anything doesn't mean something couldn't have been done. All the effort you put into coming up with excuses says a lot.
I think you a clearly the one watching "too many movies" with your silly John McClane remark and your derogatory and bizarre fixation on the word "hero."
That doesn't even make sense. As I said, if I feel I can do something then I will, as I have done many times before. That doesn't require me to be a time traveler. There are no guarantees in life. I've had knives and one gun pointed at me and I'm still here.
Only by luck rather than judgment. If true at all. Which I doubt.
Then apparently it has only been in my imagination where I have intervened in the past. There are a few others who have recently stepped up and said they have intervened before. Was it only in their imagination too?
You could be some kid in a bedroom in Basingstoke for all I know.
If we had less cowards in the world, they might never have managed to kill him. People on this thread are arguing as if it would be one on one. In reality, the hundreds of people nearby could have easily outmatched two people, despite the weapons, if they only had the balls to stand up to them.
If we had less cowards in the world, they might never have managed to kill him. People on this thread are arguing as if it would be one on one. In reality, the hundreds of people nearby could have easily outmatched two people, despite the weapons, if they only had the balls to stand up to them.
Sure. In the time it took from start to finish, you're going to rally hundreds of confused and bewildered bystanders made up mostly of old ladies out shopping and young mums pushing prams and have them all simultaneously rush two blokes in the street. Get real.
I havent read the whole thread , but no one knows what they would or wouldnt have done .Until you are faced with that on a given day you cannot even begin to guess what you would do or not .Your state of mind, weather, that morning and how it went , something on TV , the day you have had etc etc will all influence a decision at a given time .
If we had less cowards in the world, they might never have managed to kill him. People on this thread are arguing as if it would be one on one. In reality, the hundreds of people nearby could have easily outmatched two people, despite the weapons, if they only had the balls to stand up to them.
If we had less cowards in the world, they might never have managed to kill him. People on this thread are arguing as if it would be one on one. In reality, the hundreds of people nearby could have easily outmatched two people, despite the weapons, if they only had the balls to stand up to them.
Who is going to organise that .? Women and children and elderly all caught up in it ? Would you pick only young men, able bodied women,? By the time thats sorted they could have killed you .
I wouldn't.....and i'm not afraid to say too old, overweight and not fit enough so no chance.
My son definitely would......but he is ex-Forces, still super physically fit, skilled in unarmed combat and worked with 'certain Forces' out of this country.
I havent read the whole thread , but no one knows what they would or wouldnt have done .Until you are faced with that on a given day you cannot even begin to guess what you would do or not .Your state of mind, weather, that morning and how it went , something on TV , the day you have had etc etc will all influence a decision at a given time .
Speak for yourself. There are many of us that would have done something and have done so in other violent situations.
The "weather," "something onTV?" What, like a blizzard and the wrong commercial? LOL. Right.
I don't think they are going to be pleading innocence.
They will probably plead not guilty, but not on the grounds they didn't do it (there's far too much evidence against them showing that they actually did commit this crime) but probably on the grounds that they had some kind of right to commit such an act. It's the only way they'll get an earpiece in the public domain now.
Comments
The short ones -about 6ft are not that unweildy, particularly if you have well above average strength, as I do. Note that I said 'perhaps' I would have intervened. I would have had to weigh up the situation as I saw it. If both guys were busy attacking the soldier, a person with the advantage of surprise, swinging a heavy object, could possibly have made a difference!
...and people WILL make very silly decisions "under the influence" that sitting here, now, at a keyboard in the safety of their own homes they wouldn't ever dream of making! And thus get themselves into serious trouble...:(
Say you were armed with a samurai sword would you have intervened then? With a samurai sword you would have had the advantage of having a better reach so even if your not competent at wielding it you could have still kept them at a distance until the police arrived.
You do realise these guys had a gun?
They had guns apparently, so the sword would be no better than a short scaffold pole or similar! I would be very unlikely to be carrying a sword anyway! That's just not something I would do.:)
I have intervened on numerous occasions, I guess I have been lucky I have not come to any harm. I just cannot stand a see something bad happening to a fellow human being. Something inside me takes control, I have no control of intervening, maybe one day it will be the death of me, who knows.
I guess I always think, that could be someone from my family, and would like to think someone would do the same if anything was happening to one of my family.
After the event, I have a bit of a rush, but it was worth it as it has stopped things being worst than they were.
So much for spending all that time becoming a martial arts expert.
I also never said anything about me confronting them unarmed. I gave some examples of what could have been done.
You mean like the cops that shot him?
I see you are still stuck on the "hero" nonsense like a broken record. No, I want to die a person that does the right thing.
I've given examples of some things that could have been done, even by one person. Because you wouldn't have done anything doesn't mean something couldn't have been done. All the effort you put into coming up with excuses says a lot.
As I said, many people today all around the world would be dead if rescuers headed your it's too risky advice.
I think you a clearly the one watching "too many movies" with your silly John McClane remark and your derogatory and bizarre fixation on the word "hero."
I know a couple of people that have martial arts experience and I know both of them would have went in.
That doesn't even make sense. As I said, if I feel I can do something then I will, as I have done many times before. That doesn't require me to be a time traveler. There are no guarantees in life. I've had knives and one gun pointed at me and I'm still here.
Then apparently it has only been in my imagination where I have intervened in the past. There are a few others who have recently stepped up and said they have intervened before. Was it only in their imagination too?
They were obviously still a threat. Anyone could see that.
exactly
In the US if killers had threatened to attack any member of the public or a Police Officer they would be killed....no questions asked.
Why is this country so shit at this type of stuff ?
This is Britain, do that and you'd find yourself up in court on an assault charge.
its safery mind your own business unless and just walk by and keep your head down.
I don't know what you think martial arts is, but what I train and teach has a philosophy of self-preservation. You have one life and you must value it. If you're in trouble, whether alone or out with your loved ones, if you get set upon, hopefully your training buys you a chance. But that's it, there's no guarantees. What you don't do however is put your own safety at risk needlessly. Ever. That's how have-a-go heroes get hurt and killed.
You gave some imagined examples yes, but seeing as how your imagination isn't reality, they are just fantasy,
Imagining yourself as a bystander whipping out your pistol and taking down those bad guys is gung-ho. Armed response officers arriving with Heckler and Koch sub-machine guns is expected.
Because there's no rational explanation for wading in and taking on two nutters carrying knives, cleavers and a pistol. That's not doing the right thing, it's either you imagining yourself as some hero, or madness. I don't know which.
No excuses. Just a sense of reality.
Don't be ridiculous. The first rule of any rescue is don't put yourself in danger to do so.
See above
Then whatever they have been taught is bollocks, and whoever is teaching that kind of shit ought to be taken to one side and told so.
Only by luck rather than judgment. If true at all. Which I doubt.
You could be some kid in a bedroom in Basingstoke for all I know.
Sure. In the time it took from start to finish, you're going to rally hundreds of confused and bewildered bystanders made up mostly of old ladies out shopping and young mums pushing prams and have them all simultaneously rush two blokes in the street. Get real.
I don't think they are going to be pleading innocence.
Had a change of mind?
So what gives you the right to call those caught up in the tragedy cowards - you should be ashamed.
Who is going to organise that .? Women and children and elderly all caught up in it ? Would you pick only young men, able bodied women,? By the time thats sorted they could have killed you .
My son definitely would......but he is ex-Forces, still super physically fit, skilled in unarmed combat and worked with 'certain Forces' out of this country.
You're wasting your time with PP. He knows best - been there, done that, etc....;)
Speak for yourself. There are many of us that would have done something and have done so in other violent situations.
The "weather," "something onTV?" What, like a blizzard and the wrong commercial? LOL. Right.
They will probably plead not guilty, but not on the grounds they didn't do it (there's far too much evidence against them showing that they actually did commit this crime) but probably on the grounds that they had some kind of right to commit such an act. It's the only way they'll get an earpiece in the public domain now.