Once again another interesting debate thread taken over by bickering among a few . People are backing away from the discussion due to the take over and its beginning to get right on my wick now .Its happening in more and more threads and caused by one or two who seem to crave attention and seek it out .
You are doing it again. The amount of attention my posts have garnered does not determine whether my comments are realistic or "unrealistic." Attention can only determine popularity.
Idiots draw attention to themselves, I'll say no more.
Once the murderers started attacking the injured soldier how long would it have taken you to figure out that something else was going on?
I have said that if there was anything I could do then I would have, as I have in the past. There would obviously be no guarantees on the outcome. That's being realistic. That has nothing to do with giving myself "credit."
I would hope everyone there would have done something if they could, including yourself, what I'm saying is your detailed assessment of what you think you might have done is unrealistic IMO.
Why? How is trying to break up a situation where two people are attacking someone by driving fast towards them and honking the horn unrealistic? Most people would clear out of the way. I would.
No, I'm being realistic. Obviously the two murderers could have chosen to attack others if they chose to. The fact that they didn't is irrelevant. You, and others, are basing your arguments on the hope, not even the likelihood, that a criminal will respond a certain way.
The fact they didn't attack anyone else is relevant because that's what happened. You are basing your argument on what ifs. I'm saying if you had driven at them it would have made matters worse looking at how the situation played out, there was no need for anyone to do anything. Easy to say what you would do when you look back and have time to think, totally different to being there.
Reality is people dying while people stand around shivering, screaming and crying.
You must have seen different footage to me, don't recall people dying, just one very brave soldier who lost their live needlessly. Don't recall people shivering, screaming and crying, it looked quite calm, quite surreal in fact.
If you have to start exaggerating the facts it just shows how desperate you are.
This is what I was referring to as your exaggeration and desperation, not the timescale of the police/armed police.
Obviously a much more unique case compared to when your country kept German soldiers as prisoners for many years after the war and after America had already released them.
As I said, America released nearly all German POWs by 1946. Your country and France kept most of those released prisoners imprisoned for up to three more years. I guess Eisenhower forced your government, and France's, to do that?
First of all it depends how you define "many years", as all the German POW's held in the UK, were released by November 1948, just 3½ years after the end of the war ~ remind me again, how many years prisoners taken in Afghanistan have been held in Guantanamo Bay ?
Also, the POW's weren't kept incessantly in a high security facility. Most of them worked the land and were not confined indoors.
United Kingdom [edit]In 1946, the UK had more than 400,000 prisoners, many had been transferred from POW camps in the U.S. and Canada. Many of these were used as forced labour, as a form of "reparations".[30][31]
The two main reasons for their internment were political re-education (Wilton Park), and for non-officers employment as agricultural and other labour.[32][33] In 1946 a fifth of all agricultural work in the UK was performed by German prisoners.[33] An emotional and public debate ensued in the UK, where words such as "slaves", "slave labour" and "forced labour" were increasingly used in the media and in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom.[34] In 1947 the Ministry of Agriculture argued against rapid repatriation of working German prisoners, since by then they made up 25 percent of the land workforce, and they wanted to use them also in 1948.[34] Faced with political difficulties in using volunteer foreign labour a compromise solution was suggested by the ministry of agriculture, German prisoners were to be allowed to remain in Britain as free men.[34] Following disputes about how many former prisoners of war would be permitted to remain voluntarily in Britain and whether they would first have to return briefly to Germany before being allowed to officially migrate to Britain,[34] by the end of 1947 about 250,000 of the prisoners of war were repatriated, and the last repatriations took place in November 1948.[33] About 24,000 chose to remain voluntarily in Britain.[33]
The USA exported many POW's to the UK & France:-
United States [edit]The United States transferred prisoners for forced labor to both the UK and France (which received 740,000 from the US). For prisoners in the U.S. repatriation was also delayed for harvest reasons.[36]
Civilians aged 14 – 65 in the U.S. occupation zone of Germany were also registered for compulsory labor, under threat of prison and withdrawal of ration cards.[37]
Conclusion [edit]Most captives of the Americans and the British were released by the end of 1948, and most of those in French captivity were released by the end of 1949.
Compensation to Germans used as forced labor after the war is, according to the Office of Public Administration, (part of Federal Ministry of the Interior) not possible to claim in Germany as of September 29, 1978, due to the statute of limitations.[38]
Incidentally, the US transferred several hundred thousand POW's to the Soviet Union where they were used as forced labour under very hostile conditions.
POW's held by the USA were released on roughly the same time line as the UK.
... You have very few "armed police" that take 14 minutes to arrive at the scene of a crime. Sorry, but it is not a stretch to say most people around the world would find that a joke and unacceptable.
...
You mention the lack of "armed police" yet this attack took place within yards of an army barracks. You could wonder where were the other soldiers?
First of all it depends how you define "many years", as all the German POW's held in the UK, were released by November 1948, just 3½ years after the end of the war ~ remind me again, how many years prisoners taken in Afghanistan have been held in Guantanamo Bay ?
Also, the POW's weren't kept incessantly in a high security facility. Most of them worked the land and were not confined indoors.
Incidentally, the US transferred several hundred thousand POW's to the Soviet Union where they were used as forced labour under very hostile conditions.
POW's held by the USA were released on roughly the same time line as the UK.
Once again another interesting debate thread taken over by bickering among a few . People are backing away from the discussion due to the take over and its beginning to get right on my wick now .Its happening in more and more threads and caused by one or two who seem to crave attention and seek it out .
Post something related to the topic and I'd be happy to discuss it with you.
Once again another interesting debate thread taken over by bickering among a few . People are backing away from the discussion due to the take over and its beginning to get right on my wick now .Its happening in more and more threads and caused by one or two who seem to crave attention and seek it out .
A valid point, but considering how restricted your police are in handling weapons I suspect the same would apply to your soldiers. A shame.
However, soldiers may have had better unarmed combat training. Guns aren't the be all and end all of weapons, they just allow you to do your killing from a safe distance.
However, soldiers may have had better unarmed combat training. Guns aren't the be all and end all of weapons, they just allow you to do your killing from a safe distance.
A more efficient, accurate, and safer way to disable or kill a violent criminal is always more desirable.
What staggered me the most, apart from the obvious was a couple of people just sauntering past casually while one of the attackers ranted into a camera phone being held by someone else.
He had bloodied hands & a couple of knives & woman just walked past him. She did not even look at the dead body a few feet away & didn't seem a have a care in the world; in fact, 2 different women did this.
What is wrong with some people?
Possibly nothing. They may have been trying not to draw attention to themselves and get out of the way as quickly as possible. For all they knew the killer might have turned on them if they'd reacted so better just to mosey on out of there.
if I see a crime going on. I just move on as it's none of my business. as if you try to do something then not hurt or killed. so it's best to be on the safe side I'm not get involved.
Possibly nothing. They may have been trying not to draw attention to themselves and get out of the way as quickly as possible. For all they knew the killer might have turned on them if they'd reacted so better just to mosey on out of there.
More likely they didn't know what was going on. Let's face it, somebody being butchered in broad daylight on a busy street whilst the killers hang around to chat isn't an everyday occurrence. The first reaction is likely to have been confusion and bewilderment, and that's not taking into account that many peoples' minds are on other things as they go about their business.
More likely they didn't know what was going on. Let's face it, somebody being butchered in broad daylight on a busy street whilst the killers hang around to chat isn't an everyday occurrence. The first reaction is likely to have been confusion and bewilderment, and that's not taking into account that many peoples' minds are on other things as they go about their business.
Yes,, that's very true. It's not within many people's frame of reference or experience, so "bewilderment" would sum it up perfectly. I imagine most would pass it by, horrified. Some might even think it was part of a film being made.
Still waiting for your answer - what would you have done that would have given a better outcome?
From his rooftop vantage point, PPhilster would have seen the soldier get run over and the two criminal scum about to begin their frenzied attack. He'd drop in from above, slow-falling with his Batcape and quickly assess the situation. Using a fusion of Capoeira and ancient battlefield Ju-jitsu, he'd immobilise one of them quickly with a solid pressure-point strike. Taking advantage of the element of surprise, he'd swing around the immobilised one to use him as a human shield to protect himself against any bullets. If there is gunplay, he'd wait until the ammo is spent and then re-engage during the reload downtime. Switching to a Mok-gar Tiger stance, he would flurry-strike hard and fast, and take out the remaining street scum swiftly and efficiently, moving like the graceful yet powerful feline, seeking a way to place himself between the injured soldier and the ruffian. If he tried to run, he'd take him out with a temple strike using his Batarang.
Once the immediate danger is over, he’d tie the criminal scum up, using various Hojo-jutsu knots to secure them to each other. Satisfied that they pose no more danger, he would sweep the soldier up into his embrace and fire his grapple-gun up to a nearby rooftop. By now a crowd would have gathered and there would be cheering and applause. He'd winch them both the hell out of there while winking at a child in the crowd. Call police. Job done.
Then he would wake up with his face in a bowl of Cherios and the sunshine bus honking its horn outside. Late for school again.
Comments
But of course. How silly of me not to see that
Today, the West, in particular, is crippled by the possibilities of "troubling issues" instead of simply having the courage to do the right thing.
.....As decided upon by you. In contravention of some pretty persuasive principles one would hesitatingly suggest.
PPhilisterocracy does look a touch alarming to me. Have you thought about buying an island?
I'm thinking about it right now.
You said -"The hollow point bullets I use would have blown a nice big hole in and out of their bodies."
An implication you'd use a gun.
I would hope everyone there would have done something if they could, including yourself, what I'm saying is your detailed assessment of what you think you might have done is unrealistic IMO. Think about it, busy street, people in shock. The fact they didn't attack anyone else is relevant because that's what happened. You are basing your argument on what ifs. I'm saying if you had driven at them it would have made matters worse looking at how the situation played out, there was no need for anyone to do anything. Easy to say what you would do when you look back and have time to think, totally different to being there. I haven't given reasons to not do anything, just commented on what you think you could have done as unrealistic.
No you didn't. This is what I posted.....
This is what I was referring to as your exaggeration and desperation, not the timescale of the police/armed police.
First of all it depends how you define "many years", as all the German POW's held in the UK, were released by November 1948, just 3½ years after the end of the war ~ remind me again, how many years prisoners taken in Afghanistan have been held in Guantanamo Bay ?
Also, the POW's weren't kept incessantly in a high security facility. Most of them worked the land and were not confined indoors.
link
The USA exported many POW's to the UK & France:-
Incidentally, the US transferred several hundred thousand POW's to the Soviet Union where they were used as forced labour under very hostile conditions.
POW's held by the USA were released on roughly the same time line as the UK.
There's a nice little island just off the Scottish coast called Garvie island.
You mention the lack of "armed police" yet this attack took place within yards of an army barracks. You could wonder where were the other soldiers?
You have a decent chance t against a machete if you can get hold of something nearby , It's the gun that would have worried me .
Start another topic.
A valid point, but considering how restricted your police are in handling weapons I suspect the same would apply to your soldiers. A shame.
And on that note we are done.
Post something related to the topic and I'd be happy to discuss it with you.
I do agree 100% but I didn't dare say it
However, soldiers may have had better unarmed combat training. Guns aren't the be all and end all of weapons, they just allow you to do your killing from a safe distance.
A more efficient, accurate, and safer way to disable or kill a violent criminal is always more desirable.
I wouldn't discuss the weather with you to be honest .
Possibly nothing. They may have been trying not to draw attention to themselves and get out of the way as quickly as possible. For all they knew the killer might have turned on them if they'd reacted so better just to mosey on out of there.
A very convenient response when you've made errors of fact. Moreover, you seemed quite happy to debate the issue on the previous page.
More likely they didn't know what was going on. Let's face it, somebody being butchered in broad daylight on a busy street whilst the killers hang around to chat isn't an everyday occurrence. The first reaction is likely to have been confusion and bewilderment, and that's not taking into account that many peoples' minds are on other things as they go about their business.
Yes,, that's very true. It's not within many people's frame of reference or experience, so "bewilderment" would sum it up perfectly. I imagine most would pass it by, horrified. Some might even think it was part of a film being made.
I thought you were concerned about "bickering" in this thread?
Once the immediate danger is over, he’d tie the criminal scum up, using various Hojo-jutsu knots to secure them to each other. Satisfied that they pose no more danger, he would sweep the soldier up into his embrace and fire his grapple-gun up to a nearby rooftop. By now a crowd would have gathered and there would be cheering and applause. He'd winch them both the hell out of there while winking at a child in the crowd. Call police. Job done.
Then he would wake up with his face in a bowl of Cherios and the sunshine bus honking its horn outside. Late for school again.
I suspect that British soldiers would have roughly the same ability to respond as soldiers in other parts of the world do.
As Nidal Malik Hassan ably demonstrated at Fort Hood, back in 2009.