Next-next gen all consoles will be digital only so people are going to have to come to terms with it one way or another at some point.
I am still not convinced that will happen. I think there will certainly be a very strong focus on digital and digital will be the main distribution avenue for content but I am still not convinced it will be the only avenue for content distribution.
Really it will largely come down to how well internet infrastructures develop over the next 3-5years and how sales trends change. If in 5years time we have 60% buying digital and 40% still buying physical then physical content will remain for another generation.
Agreed - my point was a complete U-turn from MS just leaves less differentiation between their console and the PS4, and no real 'changes' are really happening from this generation and the next one. It feels like we are just stalling now. Their vision was for a move to digital and whilst admittedly they moved too fast, it would have at least been a bold move. When you consider what the Xbox One and PS4 both offer now, next-gen is not really 'next-gen' at all, is it? We are largely stuck in a rut.
Then Microsfot clearly wasn't ready or had the infrastructure or brains to implement such a big change so soon which was proven correct with all the backlash from gamers and the industry.
Until Microsoft or whoever comes up with a viable and FAIR method which doesn't clearly reek of ripping of consumers first and foremost the majority of gamers will surely embrace it.
Precisely, we are going there whether we like it or not. To add to that look at how many games we are now seeing being released partially on disk and completed via DLC, look at the patches, look at the subscription based online game libraries including the entire B/C function of the PS4, or just look at the sheer amount of exclusively digital games on Steam, XBLA and PSN and look at how many games next-gen are going to be online only experiences.
We are to an extent already reliant on the internet to make the most from our machines, that is a trend which will only grow and continue, MS's vision was one for the future, the future we're heading towards regardless. Next-next gen all consoles will be digital only so people are going to have to come to terms with it one way or another at some point.
Heres why companies like DD
1 - they can release buggy code and fix it later
2 - they impose DRM on the product
3 - they don't have to wok out how many disk to cut
4 - they cut out the middle man and take all the profit for them selves
Heres why consumers like physical disks
1 - they can trade them
2 - they can swap them
As the recent MS climb down has shown, never in the history of mankind has the old adage of "the customer is always right" been so 100% proven. Physical disks are going nowhere unless companies can prove tangible benefits for the consumer. MS spectacularly failed to do so and I see no hints that that is going to change any time soon
1 - they can release buggy code and fix it later
2 - they impose DRM on the product
3 - they don't have to wok out how many disk to cut
4 - they cut out the middle man and take all the profit for them selves
Heres why consumers like physical disks
1 - they can trade them
2 - they can swap them
As the recent MS climb down has shown, never in the history of mankind has the old adage of "the customer is always right" been so 100% proven. Physical disks are going nowhere unless companies can prove tangible benefits for the consumer. MS spectacularly failed to do so and I see no hints that that is going to change any time soon
People were defending this but it turns out they were being played all along.
Shocking.
I did think it seemed a little too good to be true. Pubs would not be keen on the idea of 10 people sharing a game when they originally thought game lending and trading in was blocked!
I did think it seemed a little too good to be true. Pubs would not be keen on the idea of 10 people sharing a game when they originally thought game lending and trading in was blocked!
Very misleading and disingenuous again from MS.
Basically they sold it as a benefit to players when in fact it was little more than MS using its customers as an advertising medium.
Why are you so focused on changing? The hardware is changing (bigger, faster games) that is surely enough? I mean that is what has been happening since the 70's. That is what console gaming is about. The difference between digital and physical will not the change the games one bit. If we are stalling now we are stalling the last 40 years,
Not really. Not at all.
Previous generational leaps were vast and noticeable. Whilst PS4 fanboys argue that it should be the obvious choice due to it being 'both cheaper and more powerful' - when a sane logical person sits these consoles side by side and rationally tries to find significant differences between them, I'm not sure that they will.
The graphics are, for all intents and purposes, the same. The games themselves too, exclusivity is becoming less and less prominent. One has a fancy camera that comes with it. One has a fancy camera that is optional. There is no generational leap - they are almost identical with only blind brand loyalty masking them being 'set apart' from each other when they really aren't. They are the same. And a new generation of consoles is supposed to be about providing something different. Something new.
Previous generational leaps were vast and noticeable. Whilst PS4 fanboys argue that it should be the obvious choice due to it being 'both cheaper and more powerful' - when a sane logical person sits these consoles side by side and rationally tries to find significant differences between them, I'm not sure that they will.
But any sane logical person can see that one machine is more powerful and is cheaper. That is a fact. The only thing fanboyish is to deny this. It really is that simple. Now will that extra power be realised? Who knows? Unless we are Devs we wont know until a few months after they are released at least. But to sit here and say well only fanboys would argue.... Im not a fanboy I own a 360. Im anti DRM and Kinect. That doesnt make me pro Sony in return, but even I can see that the best choice for me (at the moment) is the cheaper more powerful machine. Its just that simple. And Microsoft are making it that simple.
The graphics are, for all intents and purposes, the same. The games themselves too, exclusivity is becoming less and less prominent. One has a fancy camera that comes with it. One has a fancy camera that is optional. There is no generational leap - they are almost identical with only blind brand loyalty masking them being 'set apart' from each other when they really aren't. They are the same. And a new generation of consoles is supposed to be about providing something different. Something new.
We have seen this all before
Master System V NES.
Megadrive V SNES.
PS V N64 V Saturn.
Dreamcast V xbox V ps2 V Gamecube.
360 V PS3 V Wii.
Will U V PS4 V xbox 1
Yes we have seen it all before that is the way it has always been. The next gen was never about something different. It was always an upgrade. It was always about one thing. The games. Games Games Games. Doesn't matter how they are shipped. Or how they are loaded. We are here for the games. Will digital download mean better games for me? No.
But any sane logical person can see that one machine is more powerful and is cheaper. That is a fact. The only thing fanboyish is to deny this. It really is that simple. Now will that extra power be realised? Who knows? Unless we are Devs we wont know until a few months after they are released at least. But to sit here and say well only fanboys would argue.... Im not a fanboy I own a 360. Im anti DRM and Kinect. That doesnt make me pro Sony in return, but even I can see that the best choice for me (at the moment) is the cheaper more powerful machine. Its just that simple. And Microsoft are making it that simple.
For the first couple of years at least i'm sure that there will be no discernible difference between the graphics of the PS4 and X1, but then i think we'll have a similar situation to the 360 and PS3 where Sony's first party exclusives totally blow away the X1 (i still maintain that Uncharted 3 has the best graphics of any game from the current generation. I own both consoles too so that's not a fanboy comment either). Multiplatform games will likely have a parity across both consoles.
For the first couple of years at least i'm sure that there will be no discernible difference between the graphics of the PS4 and X1, but then i think we'll have a similar situation to the 360 and PS3 where Sony's first party exclusives totally blow away the X1 (i still maintain that Uncharted 3 has the best graphics of any game from the current generation. I own both consoles too so that's not a fanboy comment either). Multiplatform games will likely have a parity across both consoles.
Its pure speculation as to what will happen in 2 or 3 years. Xbox one users could argue 2 years with the cloud could see games impossible to run on a PS4. Again pure speculation but certainly could be seen as a possibility.
Its pure speculation as to what will happen in 2 or 3 years. Xbox one users could argue 2 years with the cloud could see games impossible to run on a PS4. Again pure speculation but certainly could be seen as a possibility.
The trouble with the cloud argument is Sony could easily do the same thing, it may take a bit of time to gear up the system but they are already building a large cloud network. At the moment they are looking at the cloud in a different way then what we are hearing from MS, but the infrastructure is been put in place for a Playstation cloud.
But any sane logical person can see that one machine is more powerful and is cheaper. That is a fact. The only thing fanboyish is to deny this. It really is that simple. Now will that extra power be realised? Who knows? Unless we are Devs we wont know until a few months after they are released at least. But to sit here and say well only fanboys would argue.... Im not a fanboy I own a 360. Im anti DRM and Kinect. That doesnt make me pro Sony in return, but even I can see that the best choice for me (at the moment) is the cheaper more powerful machine. Its just that simple. And Microsoft are making it that simple.
Not really. Well, only if you buy into the argument that the graphics/specs of a console are what matter. As I said, PS4 might be more powerful than Xbox One on paper, but in reality the differences that will be made as a result of this 'power' will be significantly minor, almost un-noticeable. You'd have to be a real specs geek to bring that up, I'd say. And I could care less which one has more 'RAM'. So for me it will never be about which console is 'more powerful', it should be a more 'whole' question - which console is better for me, and which has the games I am more interested in? When the XBox One has those games, why should I not choose that, even when it is, as you say, "less powerful" - it matters not!
Yes we have seen it all before that is the way it has always been. The next gen was never about something different. It was always an upgrade. It was always about one thing. The games. Games Games Games. Doesn't matter how they are shipped. Or how they are loaded. We are here for the games. Will digital download mean better games for me? No.
When Super Mario 64 and the N64 happened it set our worlds alight with the true emergence of beautiful 3D and 3D platforming. PS2 could play DVD's, it and subsequent consoles introduced online play and new online networks. These are huge, and huge things have always historically happened. This is the first new generation in quite some time where we are just plodding along. Thanks to gamers not really being willing to embrace a new way of distribution, the PS4 and Xbox One are pretty much one and the same. At least before the U-turn, for right or wrong, one of them would have been different.
Thanks to gamers not really being willing to embrace a new way of distribution, the PS4 and Xbox One are pretty much one and the same. At least before the U-turn, for right or wrong, one of them would have been different.
Thanks to gamers not wanting to be forced into something, MS wasn't offering a new way of distribution they were just expanding on the same system of distribution we have seen grow on PSN and LIVE. Nothing has really changed, everything MS wanted to do can still be done in the digital side of their business.
All gamers wanted was the opportunity to move into the future at their own pace rather than been forced to adopt it or get out.
I do understand the argument your making about there been no huge leap forward between this generation and next, but I think that is largely due to firmware updates this generation. The PS3 has already seen huge leaps forward from when the console was first introduced, you can now do so much more with the console than you could on day one. This gradual change over the generation has meant that many of the developments that would have happened during a generation change have already been put into place before new hardware arrived.
Let's hope they use the power of the new consoles for more than simply prettier graphics or bigger game worlds but with no real improvements or innovations in gameplay. I think the way they are using the cloud in Forza 5 to (hopefully) improve the AI is a good sign that some developers will try to push things forward in some way.
Not really. Well, only if you buy into the argument that the graphics/specs of a console are what matter. As I said, PS4 might be more powerful than Xbox One on paper, but in reality the differences that will be made as a result of this 'power' will be significantly minor, almost un-noticeable. You'd have to be a real specs geek to bring that up, I'd say. And I could care less which one has more 'RAM'. So for me it will never be about which console is 'more powerful', it should be a more 'whole' question - which console is better for me, and which has the games I am more interested in? When the XBox One has those games, why should I not choose that, even when it is, as you say, "less powerful" - it matters not!
See here is the real issue. You sir are a f̶a̶n̶b̶o̶y̶ clear fan of Microsoft
You say the differences will be almost un-noticeable. Maybe you are right, maybe you are not, but nobody can say for sure, Not unless you are a tech genius or a timetraveller. You then say you couldn't care about RAM. That is a bizarre line. RAM is not something that is attached to the side to make the console look better. The amount of RAM in any machine will have a major factor in its overall performance. Why would you not care about it? You are right though, when picking the console for you "less powerful" matters not. All that clearly matters is Microsoft on the box.
See here is the real issue. You sir are a f̶a̶n̶b̶o̶y̶ clear fan of Microsoft
You say the differences will be almost un-noticeable. Maybe you are right, maybe you are not, but nobody can say for sure, Not unless you are a tech genius or a timetraveller. You then say you couldn't care about RAM. That is a bizarre line. RAM is not something that is attached to the side to make the console look better. The amount of RAM in any machine will have a major factor in its overall performance. Why would you not care about it? You are right though, when picking the console for you "less powerful" matters not. All that clearly matters is Microsoft on the box.
I'm a Nintendo fan actually, if you're talking about games quality of the 3 (and these are games consoles), but well done on the assumption. You might want to go back and read the original posts I made rather than write silly posts like that, but for absolute clarity:
There is and will be little to no difference between the on screen output of Xbox One and PS4. That isn't me looking into the future, that's fact. Go and read any one of several articles freely available from the 'professionals' who say so if you don't believe me. THEREFORE, for PS4 fans to tout the PS4 as the better console because it is both cheaper and more powerful, is largely redundant. Cheaper, yes. The 'power' issue is here nor there.
Not once in any of my posts have I stated or even tried to imply that Microsoft were absolutely right with their plans (infact I have said the opposite) - but I do believe they should be applauded for the (original) boldness of a different approach. They shouldn't be applauded for giving in and sticking with the tired retail model that simply isn't working just because they were scared. Alas, business is business. In future, please read posts correctly.
This console generation there is little (to no) difference between the two forthcoming consoles and subsequently little reason to get excited. The model stays the same, the graphics improve moderately, we buy a disc at retail, we put it in, we game, we enjoy. So what? Maybe I've been gaming too long but I was looking for something a little more, something to get excited about. A drastic or significant change in how we do things. You might be OK with how things are shaping up - I wanted more, and I'm entitled to that opinion.
I'm a Nintendo fan actually, if you're talking about games quality of the 3 (and these are games consoles), but well done on the assumption. You might want to go back and read the original posts I made rather than write silly posts like that, but for absolute clarity:
There is and will be little to no difference between the on screen output of Xbox One and PS4. That isn't me looking into the future, that's fact. Go and read any one of several articles freely available from the 'professionals' who say so if you don't believe me. THEREFORE, for PS4 fans to tout the PS4 as the better console because it is both cheaper and more powerful, is largely redundant. Cheaper, yes. The 'power' issue is here nor there.
Not once in any of my posts have I stated or even tried to imply that Microsoft were absolutely right with their plans (infact I have said the opposite) - but I do believe they should be applauded for the (original) boldness of a different approach. They shouldn't be applauded for giving in and sticking with the tired retail model that simply isn't working just because they were scared. Alas, business is business. In future, please read posts correctly.
This console generation there is little (to no) difference between the two forthcoming consoles and subsequently little reason to get excited. The model stays the same, the graphics improve moderately, we buy a disc at retail, we put it in, we game, we enjoy. So what? Maybe I've been gaming too long but I was looking for something a little more, something to get excited about. A drastic or significant change in how we do things. You might be OK with how things are shaping up - I wanted more, and I'm entitled to that opinion.
Everybody wants more, but how is what Microsoft doing "more"? Its different? yes, but more? Will it add anything new? No. Gaming hasn't changed from my times in the Arcades in the 80's. Sit down, play game. What "more" do you want?
And I have made no assumptions, I have simply stated facts. To dismiss one console as you don't care for RAM is simply ludicrous. No other way to describe it. Whatever you want more of you are going to need more RAM.
You say the retail model isn't working? Last time I looked both the PS3 and the 360 had sold 70 million+ units each. What number is working?
See here is the real issue. You sir are a f̶a̶n̶b̶o̶y̶ clear fan of Microsoft
You say the differences will be almost un-noticeable. Maybe you are right, maybe you are not, but nobody can say for sure, Not unless you are a tech genius or a timetraveller. You then say you couldn't care about RAM. That is a bizarre line. RAM is not something that is attached to the side to make the console look better. The amount of RAM in any machine will have a major factor in its overall performance. Why would you not care about it? You are right though, when picking the console for you "less powerful" matters not. All that clearly matters is Microsoft on the box.
The extra usable RAM will allow for higher resolution textures, the games should look better right from the off.
Not once in any of my posts have I stated or even tried to imply that Microsoft were absolutely right with their plans (infact I have said the opposite) - but I do believe they should be applauded for the (original) boldness of a different approach. They shouldn't be applauded for giving in and sticking with the tired retail model that simply isn't working just because they were scared. Alas, business is business. In future, please read posts correctly.
So you don't agree with what they did, in fact you where against it, yet they should be applauded for doing something that seeming nobody agreed with
And we should not applaud them for changing almost all of the features that people didn't like, we shouldn't applaud them for listening to fans, retailers and shareholders
Also what is wrong with the current model, a game launches and is available day one at retail and on the stores, you can either download or buy the game at retail, you have the chose of doing either
How could the system ever be done better?
Comments
I am still not convinced that will happen. I think there will certainly be a very strong focus on digital and digital will be the main distribution avenue for content but I am still not convinced it will be the only avenue for content distribution.
Really it will largely come down to how well internet infrastructures develop over the next 3-5years and how sales trends change. If in 5years time we have 60% buying digital and 40% still buying physical then physical content will remain for another generation.
Then Microsfot clearly wasn't ready or had the infrastructure or brains to implement such a big change so soon which was proven correct with all the backlash from gamers and the industry.
Until Microsoft or whoever comes up with a viable and FAIR method which doesn't clearly reek of ripping of consumers first and foremost the majority of gamers will surely embrace it.
Erm..no it won't. It will be an option, a choice and I think mighty Microsoft have realised that.
It's fine you have an opinion - but you really have shot your own foot on so many occasions in the last few weeks.
Heres why companies like DD
1 - they can release buggy code and fix it later
2 - they impose DRM on the product
3 - they don't have to wok out how many disk to cut
4 - they cut out the middle man and take all the profit for them selves
Heres why consumers like physical disks
1 - they can trade them
2 - they can swap them
As the recent MS climb down has shown, never in the history of mankind has the old adage of "the customer is always right" been so 100% proven. Physical disks are going nowhere unless companies can prove tangible benefits for the consumer. MS spectacularly failed to do so and I see no hints that that is going to change any time soon
3 - They physically own them.
I did think it seemed a little too good to be true. Pubs would not be keen on the idea of 10 people sharing a game when they originally thought game lending and trading in was blocked!
Very misleading and disingenuous again from MS.
Basically they sold it as a benefit to players when in fact it was little more than MS using its customers as an advertising medium.
Not really. Not at all.
Previous generational leaps were vast and noticeable. Whilst PS4 fanboys argue that it should be the obvious choice due to it being 'both cheaper and more powerful' - when a sane logical person sits these consoles side by side and rationally tries to find significant differences between them, I'm not sure that they will.
The graphics are, for all intents and purposes, the same. The games themselves too, exclusivity is becoming less and less prominent. One has a fancy camera that comes with it. One has a fancy camera that is optional. There is no generational leap - they are almost identical with only blind brand loyalty masking them being 'set apart' from each other when they really aren't. They are the same. And a new generation of consoles is supposed to be about providing something different. Something new.
We have seen this all before.
But any sane logical person can see that one machine is more powerful and is cheaper. That is a fact. The only thing fanboyish is to deny this. It really is that simple. Now will that extra power be realised? Who knows? Unless we are Devs we wont know until a few months after they are released at least. But to sit here and say well only fanboys would argue.... Im not a fanboy I own a 360. Im anti DRM and Kinect. That doesnt make me pro Sony in return, but even I can see that the best choice for me (at the moment) is the cheaper more powerful machine. Its just that simple. And Microsoft are making it that simple.
Master System V NES.
Megadrive V SNES.
PS V N64 V Saturn.
Dreamcast V xbox V ps2 V Gamecube.
360 V PS3 V Wii.
Will U V PS4 V xbox 1
Yes we have seen it all before that is the way it has always been. The next gen was never about something different. It was always an upgrade. It was always about one thing. The games. Games Games Games. Doesn't matter how they are shipped. Or how they are loaded. We are here for the games. Will digital download mean better games for me? No.
For the first couple of years at least i'm sure that there will be no discernible difference between the graphics of the PS4 and X1, but then i think we'll have a similar situation to the 360 and PS3 where Sony's first party exclusives totally blow away the X1 (i still maintain that Uncharted 3 has the best graphics of any game from the current generation. I own both consoles too so that's not a fanboy comment either). Multiplatform games will likely have a parity across both consoles.
Its pure speculation as to what will happen in 2 or 3 years. Xbox one users could argue 2 years with the cloud could see games impossible to run on a PS4. Again pure speculation but certainly could be seen as a possibility.
The trouble with the cloud argument is Sony could easily do the same thing, it may take a bit of time to gear up the system but they are already building a large cloud network. At the moment they are looking at the cloud in a different way then what we are hearing from MS, but the infrastructure is been put in place for a Playstation cloud.
Not really. Well, only if you buy into the argument that the graphics/specs of a console are what matter. As I said, PS4 might be more powerful than Xbox One on paper, but in reality the differences that will be made as a result of this 'power' will be significantly minor, almost un-noticeable. You'd have to be a real specs geek to bring that up, I'd say. And I could care less which one has more 'RAM'. So for me it will never be about which console is 'more powerful', it should be a more 'whole' question - which console is better for me, and which has the games I am more interested in? When the XBox One has those games, why should I not choose that, even when it is, as you say, "less powerful" - it matters not!
When Super Mario 64 and the N64 happened it set our worlds alight with the true emergence of beautiful 3D and 3D platforming. PS2 could play DVD's, it and subsequent consoles introduced online play and new online networks. These are huge, and huge things have always historically happened. This is the first new generation in quite some time where we are just plodding along. Thanks to gamers not really being willing to embrace a new way of distribution, the PS4 and Xbox One are pretty much one and the same. At least before the U-turn, for right or wrong, one of them would have been different.
Tech Wise, PS4 in terms of graphical output capability.
Thanks to gamers not wanting to be forced into something, MS wasn't offering a new way of distribution they were just expanding on the same system of distribution we have seen grow on PSN and LIVE. Nothing has really changed, everything MS wanted to do can still be done in the digital side of their business.
All gamers wanted was the opportunity to move into the future at their own pace rather than been forced to adopt it or get out.
I do understand the argument your making about there been no huge leap forward between this generation and next, but I think that is largely due to firmware updates this generation. The PS3 has already seen huge leaps forward from when the console was first introduced, you can now do so much more with the console than you could on day one. This gradual change over the generation has meant that many of the developments that would have happened during a generation change have already been put into place before new hardware arrived.
See here is the real issue. You sir are a f̶a̶n̶b̶o̶y̶ clear fan of Microsoft
You say the differences will be almost un-noticeable. Maybe you are right, maybe you are not, but nobody can say for sure, Not unless you are a tech genius or a timetraveller. You then say you couldn't care about RAM. That is a bizarre line. RAM is not something that is attached to the side to make the console look better. The amount of RAM in any machine will have a major factor in its overall performance. Why would you not care about it? You are right though, when picking the console for you "less powerful" matters not. All that clearly matters is Microsoft on the box.
I'm a Nintendo fan actually, if you're talking about games quality of the 3 (and these are games consoles), but well done on the assumption. You might want to go back and read the original posts I made rather than write silly posts like that, but for absolute clarity:
There is and will be little to no difference between the on screen output of Xbox One and PS4. That isn't me looking into the future, that's fact. Go and read any one of several articles freely available from the 'professionals' who say so if you don't believe me. THEREFORE, for PS4 fans to tout the PS4 as the better console because it is both cheaper and more powerful, is largely redundant. Cheaper, yes. The 'power' issue is here nor there.
Not once in any of my posts have I stated or even tried to imply that Microsoft were absolutely right with their plans (infact I have said the opposite) - but I do believe they should be applauded for the (original) boldness of a different approach. They shouldn't be applauded for giving in and sticking with the tired retail model that simply isn't working just because they were scared. Alas, business is business. In future, please read posts correctly.
This console generation there is little (to no) difference between the two forthcoming consoles and subsequently little reason to get excited. The model stays the same, the graphics improve moderately, we buy a disc at retail, we put it in, we game, we enjoy. So what? Maybe I've been gaming too long but I was looking for something a little more, something to get excited about. A drastic or significant change in how we do things. You might be OK with how things are shaping up - I wanted more, and I'm entitled to that opinion.
Everybody wants more, but how is what Microsoft doing "more"? Its different? yes, but more? Will it add anything new? No. Gaming hasn't changed from my times in the Arcades in the 80's. Sit down, play game. What "more" do you want?
And I have made no assumptions, I have simply stated facts. To dismiss one console as you don't care for RAM is simply ludicrous. No other way to describe it. Whatever you want more of you are going to need more RAM.
You say the retail model isn't working? Last time I looked both the PS3 and the 360 had sold 70 million+ units each. What number is working?
The extra usable RAM will allow for higher resolution textures, the games should look better right from the off.
So you don't agree with what they did, in fact you where against it, yet they should be applauded for doing something that seeming nobody agreed with
And we should not applaud them for changing almost all of the features that people didn't like, we shouldn't applaud them for listening to fans, retailers and shareholders
Also what is wrong with the current model, a game launches and is available day one at retail and on the stores, you can either download or buy the game at retail, you have the chose of doing either
How could the system ever be done better?