2) Madonna is also over-rated. She has a weak voice, doesn't always write her own songs, and many of her songs from the 80's and early 90's have aged really badly. People talk about her using her sexuality and shock tactics to increase her fame, despite lacking talent, as though it's a good thing. The glorification of her behaviour set a precedent for female pop stars today, who are far too objectified and most of them lack talent. (Even the ones who are talented, like Beyonce, feel the need to objectify themselves). She's just just lowered pop music down to her level and that's nothing to praise her for. I don't think she was breaking barriers. Women have always tried to use their sexual power to get ahead. It's nothing new, I just feel Madonna's fans intellectualise her tactics when looking back on her career. Also, maybe it's because I'm quite young and numbed to sex and ubiquitous shock tactics, but when I hear of Madonna's antics against the Catholic church I just think she sounds like a ****. I view Madonna as basically the Rihanna of the 80's and 90's.
There's no denying Madonna's show-womanship, her staying power and impact on the pop world over the years but she is insanely overrated and given far too much credit a lot of the time. Madonna is like many, many other pop singers and pop bands, she's only as good as the people she works with. She's always been clever in that she surrounds herself with extremely talented writers and producers to cover up her many shortcomings and lack of natural talent. She doesn't have the talent to write and produce her music by herself; people certainly wouldn't be singing any of her classic songs if it wasn't for the outside forces that are brought in to oversee her music. People like Patrick Leonard, Nile Rogers, Stuart Price, William Orbit, Jellybean Benitez, etc. are the real brains behind her career; she’d be nothing without them. I'm not denying that she has had a hand in the making of some of her music, but co-writing credits can be highly dubious. Numerous people who have worked with her over the years have revealed she demands simple word changes to lyrics already written purely to score a songwriting credit. She actually tried changing the lyrics to the song "You Must Love Me" but was basically told to sod off by Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber. Even Stephen Bray once commented that Madonna's input into her music is "minimal". Let's face it, would Madonna have written songs like "Ray of Light", "Secret", "Like a Prayer", "Express Yourself", etc. without other people? I doubt it. Yet it's Madonna who is labeled a genius as though she created those songs on her own like Paul McCartney, Joni Mitchell and Neil Young create theirs.
The word "genius" is thrown about far too much these days. Do I think Madonna is a musical genius? Far from it. Do I think she's a marketing genius? Sure. Her true talent lies in being a shrewd businesswoman. She knows how to sell herself, her shortcomings, how to court controversy and get people talking. She made it because she understood how to manipulate the public by shocking them and by pushing the envelope of convention and playing the game. The fact remains, she's been extremely lucky to have had the career she's had. It's been about who she knows rather than what she knows. Madonna basically defined the movement of style over substance and opened the doors to the teen-pop moment that keeps regenerating every few years. She is the artist who opened the doors to the likes of Rihanna, Britney Spears and Katy Perry. As far as I'm concerned, the best selling doesn't equate being the best.
I couldn't disagree more. Fantasia does different type of music and has a different range in her voice to be said she would wipe the floor with Rihanna and Beyonce.
It's like saying Katherine Jenkins would wipe the floor with Adele, which wouldn't work as they are two different vocalists who do completley different music.
Rihanna and Bey are popstars. Fantasia isn't. She is much more on par with Jennifer Hudson and they both do contemporary r&b soul music. Fantasia is more on par with the likes of Jasmine Sullivan, Melanie Fiona, Keyshia Cole etc in terms of her music and vocal range.
I couldn't disagree more. Fantasia does different type of music and has a different range in her voice to be said she would wipe the floor with Rihanna and Beyonce.
It's like saying Katherine Jenkins would wipe the floor with Adele, which wouldn't work as they are two different vocalists who do completley different music.
Rihanna and Bey are popstars. Fantasia isn't. She is much more on par with Jennifer Hudson and they both do contemporary r&b soul music. Fantasia is more on par with the likes of Jasmine Sullivan, Melanie Fiona, Keyshia Cole etc in terms of her music and vocal range.
I don't see how the opinion about Madonna is unpopular at all. It is actually the generally accepted opinion that is repeated over and over in the media that she doesn't have talent and is just a good business woman and sexual.
It would actually be unpopular to say that she actually has a good voice and is a terrific singer. Even some people that like her music will often say she's not a good singer. But I feel that she actually has a great really unique pop voice that can sing lots of different kinds of music with different tones and feelings. Great singing doesn't always have to be belting and hitting super high notes like Adele, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion etc.
I don't see the media constantly labeling Madonna a musical genius. If anything, they constantly undermine her true talent like the posters here by saying she doesn't write her music all by herself and it's all created by other people etc. What people were saying about her is actually the popular accepted opinion about her talent. It actually would be unpopular to say she is a musical genius!
Most women don't have a clue what good music is. As long as it has lots of bass and really crap vocals they are happy. And because men want to do the vertical shuffle with them they invariably end up listening to the same crappy, chavvy music to impress them.
Just listen to any so called music coming out of a hot hatch (with spoiler and/or body kit on it) as it flys past to fast on the roads, or going through a red light just missing you.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but anyone who thinks that all of the Beatles music sounds the same has obviously never listened to them. Say they are overrated if you think that they are, but don't post blatant untruths.
Some unpopular views I have on music.
Mariah Carey is hideous. I hate her screechy, wailing voice. Her music is also complete and utter tripe.
I've never "got" the appeal of Elvis. Ever. He sounds like he was a bit thick and a bit of a thug as well, but I suppose some people like that though don't they?
Modern R'n'B and Hip Hop music is shit.
The Spice Girls were awful. I was a teenager in the 90's and wouldn't have been seen dead listening to their "music" even then.
Don't think that is an unpopular opinion. Now if you had said the Spice Girls were good.
I'm not a massive Beatles fan myself, but have nothing but complete respect for them. I'm in awe of the skills they possessed and the incredible body of work they created. It's hard not to think that people who say they were overrated just mean they don't like them and haven't explored their catalogue.
As for my unpopular opinions....
Nothing David Guetta has ever put out has impressed me in the slightest. It's basic crap that I think anybody with the slightest knowledge and ability could come up with in a studio. Even When Love Takes Over with Kelly Roland completely ripped off he piano from Coldplay's Clocks.
Coldplay, The Script et al don't belong in the 'rock' category. The majority of their songs are bland and sterile. I like to think of them as 'rock music for people that don't like rock music'. Rock music should be exciting and dynamic.
Danny from The Script is incredibly irritating and watching his ego expand by the day makes me nauseous. I also don't think he's anything special as a singer/musician.
David Coverdale is one of the best vocalists and frontmen of all time.
Adele is talented, but extremely overrated.
Lady Gaga's level of talent is special and she is easily one of the best performers around today.
Ronnie James Dio was a far better vocalist than Ozzy Osbourne.
Noel Gallagher still can't bend the strings of his guitar(s) in tune when playing solos.
"Who run the world? Girls". Matthew Knowles and Shawn Carter created your world, so you might want to re-think that.
I couldn't disagree more. Fantasia does different type of music and has a different range in her voice to be said she would wipe the floor with Rihanna and Beyonce.
It's like saying Katherine Jenkins would wipe the floor with Adele, which wouldn't work as they are two different vocalists who do completley different music.
Rihanna and Bey are popstars. Fantasia isn't. She is much more on par with Jennifer Hudson and they both do contemporary r&b soul music. Fantasia is more on par with the likes of Jasmine Sullivan, Melanie Fiona, Keyshia Cole etc in terms of her music and vocal range.
What's the point about Fantasia not being marketable though?
Jennifer Hudson and Mary J Blige are marketable.
I see loads of comments on these forums from people saying how wonderful Mariah is, and just the other day a DJ on Radio One was practically orgasming over her and calling her a "legend". She and her screeching are also responsible for the last ten plus years of bad X Factor auditons.
i know, when i first joined music forums i was bewhildered by the ammount of fans carey/houston/dion have, because i dont know anyone in real life who think they are anything short of awful. i too hate vocal gymnastics, theres no need as a real singer can portray emotion simply by singing, because they have a feel for the subject, not the purse.
I'm not a massive Beatles fan myself, but have nothing but complete respect for them. I'm in awe of the skills they possessed and the incredible body of work they created. It's hard not to think that people who say they were overrated just mean they don't like them and haven't explored their catalogue.
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nice to read an intelligent comment from a non fan!
nice to read an intelligent comment from a non fan!
Thanks Don't get me wrong, I do like them and have listened to quite a lot of their music over the years(I particularly like Let It Be and Revolver), but I don't listen to them often and they wouldn't be in my top 10 personal favourite bands.
Nothing David Guetta has ever put out has impressed me in the slightest. It's basic crap that I think anybody with the slightest knowledge and ability could come up with in a studio. Even When Love Takes Over with Kelly Roland completely ripped off he piano from Coldplay's Clocks.
Adele is talented, but extremely overrated.
Lady Gaga's level of talent is special and she is easily one of the best performers around today.
Ronnie James Dio was a far better vocalist than Ozzy Osbourne.
I think those are the ones I would agree with, especially the David Guetta reference. I'm not sure how unpopular they are?
I think those are the ones I would agree with, especially the David Guetta reference. I'm not sure how unpopular they are?
It depends if the criteria is unpopular in general or unpopular here at DS. Even with the latter one, I'd expect the majority here to disagree with me on the 4 you quoted. Glad you agree with them, though :cool:
Beyonce as mentioned is a product. Her songs could be sung by ANYONE hence them being fodder for talent shows such as the X-Factor. She lacks emotion in her voice, and everything about her is managed. Jennifer Hudson is WAAAAY better and more talented.
Will.i.am is a talentless hack - Anyone can make random noises on a computer and write meaningless shite.
UK acts going to America isn't everything. We are in EUROPE - there is lucrative markets in Germany, Sweden, France, Italy and unchartered terrtority in Russia. Australia and the Far East is a good way to get fans too. If UK acts want to crack America, stay true to your sound! Why hire BOB or Sean Paul to rap some gibberish unrelated the song? If the Yanks don't like you, screw em.
Downloads have DAMAGED the UK single charts. This has led to a static chart, and almost impossible for self-made acts to have a surprise hit unless they're in an advert. The system is open to abuse and anyone can mass download a single. This has cheapened selling a million as an achievement. The 2004-2007 era of low sales at least had an equal playing field for acts.
I think a chart shake-up is needed. Say 25% jury consisting of critics, and a few members of the public and 75% sales. EVERY act has to submit a live performance with NO miming and NO fakery. Any act who fails, has a six month chart ban. This also stops crims such as T.I and Chris Brown having hits.
Scouting For Girls are a bit of fun. Music doesn't have to be serious, over-singing (Jessie J/Beyonce take note).
Coldplay, The Script et al don't belong in the 'rock' category. The majority of their songs are bland and sterile. I like to think of them as 'rock music for people that don't like rock music'. Rock music should be exciting and dynamic.
Danny from The Script is incredibly irritating and watching his ego expand by the day makes me nauseous. I also don't think he's anything special as a singer/musician.
David Coverdale is one of the best vocalists and frontmen of all time.
Ronnie James Dio was a far better vocalist than Ozzy Osbourne.
I don't know if it can be categorised as unpopular but IMHO there are too many middle class people in pop music these days and that's why it has lost it's rebellious edge.
Coldplay, Radiohead, Mumford and Sons, Take That, 1D, The Saturdays, Ed Sheeran, Rihanna, Example, Taylor Swift, Beyonce etc etc.
They all come from quite privileged backgrounds and have nothing rebellious to sing about just the occasional quirky comment about good times, getting on in life or how amazing everything is?
Agreed. I think A LOT of this is the fact governments are pushing the working and lower classes out of society especially the UK since 2010 well since 1979 but save that for a politics thread.
It seems working class people only have X-Factor/The Voice/BGT to break through and that's because the people who run these shows who are MIDDLE CLASS can manipulate the working/lower classes.
Most other European nations have singers from poor backgrounds working their way up and having big hits. We're elitist.
Why, is the music of Elvis beyond criticism. I know what I like and I don't follow the crowds.
Not saying it just to be different, I agree with the poster who said Robbie Williams as well.
You just have to accept that not all things are up for critique. And you can't always look back with the eyes of today and understand the past. The early (50s) Elvis is very important in the development of pop music as we know it - white man singing black music and all that. Elvis was an exceptionally gifted singer and pioneered some of the more liberating aspects of Rock N'Roll.
The later Elvis had lost much of that early swagger and is not beyond criticism.
Comments
I agree, also Robbie Williams is also an awful pub singer that needs to go away!!!
That's a neat way of telling everyone they should immediately dismiss anything you have to say about music.
There's no denying Madonna's show-womanship, her staying power and impact on the pop world over the years but she is insanely overrated and given far too much credit a lot of the time. Madonna is like many, many other pop singers and pop bands, she's only as good as the people she works with. She's always been clever in that she surrounds herself with extremely talented writers and producers to cover up her many shortcomings and lack of natural talent. She doesn't have the talent to write and produce her music by herself; people certainly wouldn't be singing any of her classic songs if it wasn't for the outside forces that are brought in to oversee her music. People like Patrick Leonard, Nile Rogers, Stuart Price, William Orbit, Jellybean Benitez, etc. are the real brains behind her career; she’d be nothing without them. I'm not denying that she has had a hand in the making of some of her music, but co-writing credits can be highly dubious. Numerous people who have worked with her over the years have revealed she demands simple word changes to lyrics already written purely to score a songwriting credit. She actually tried changing the lyrics to the song "You Must Love Me" but was basically told to sod off by Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber. Even Stephen Bray once commented that Madonna's input into her music is "minimal". Let's face it, would Madonna have written songs like "Ray of Light", "Secret", "Like a Prayer", "Express Yourself", etc. without other people? I doubt it. Yet it's Madonna who is labeled a genius as though she created those songs on her own like Paul McCartney, Joni Mitchell and Neil Young create theirs.
The word "genius" is thrown about far too much these days. Do I think Madonna is a musical genius? Far from it. Do I think she's a marketing genius? Sure. Her true talent lies in being a shrewd businesswoman. She knows how to sell herself, her shortcomings, how to court controversy and get people talking. She made it because she understood how to manipulate the public by shocking them and by pushing the envelope of convention and playing the game. The fact remains, she's been extremely lucky to have had the career she's had. It's been about who she knows rather than what she knows. Madonna basically defined the movement of style over substance and opened the doors to the teen-pop moment that keeps regenerating every few years. She is the artist who opened the doors to the likes of Rihanna, Britney Spears and Katy Perry. As far as I'm concerned, the best selling doesn't equate being the best.
I couldn't disagree more. Fantasia does different type of music and has a different range in her voice to be said she would wipe the floor with Rihanna and Beyonce.
It's like saying Katherine Jenkins would wipe the floor with Adele, which wouldn't work as they are two different vocalists who do completley different music.
Rihanna and Bey are popstars. Fantasia isn't. She is much more on par with Jennifer Hudson and they both do contemporary r&b soul music. Fantasia is more on par with the likes of Jasmine Sullivan, Melanie Fiona, Keyshia Cole etc in terms of her music and vocal range.
Really ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXDAUSUlIMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2yEd1SY4s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSG5r3eDMsA
It would actually be unpopular to say that she actually has a good voice and is a terrific singer. Even some people that like her music will often say she's not a good singer. But I feel that she actually has a great really unique pop voice that can sing lots of different kinds of music with different tones and feelings. Great singing doesn't always have to be belting and hitting super high notes like Adele, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion etc.
I don't see the media constantly labeling Madonna a musical genius. If anything, they constantly undermine her true talent like the posters here by saying she doesn't write her music all by herself and it's all created by other people etc. What people were saying about her is actually the popular accepted opinion about her talent. It actually would be unpopular to say she is a musical genius!
Agreed!
Exactly what colour cloth are your ears?
I am not disagreeing to her being a good vocalist. She is incredible. I am disagreeing to the females she has been put up against.
Just listen to any so called music coming out of a hot hatch (with spoiler and/or body kit on it) as it flys past to fast on the roads, or going through a red light just missing you.
Don't think that is an unpopular opinion. Now if you had said the Spice Girls were good.
As for my unpopular opinions....
Nothing David Guetta has ever put out has impressed me in the slightest. It's basic crap that I think anybody with the slightest knowledge and ability could come up with in a studio. Even When Love Takes Over with Kelly Roland completely ripped off he piano from Coldplay's Clocks.
Coldplay, The Script et al don't belong in the 'rock' category. The majority of their songs are bland and sterile. I like to think of them as 'rock music for people that don't like rock music'. Rock music should be exciting and dynamic.
Danny from The Script is incredibly irritating and watching his ego expand by the day makes me nauseous. I also don't think he's anything special as a singer/musician.
David Coverdale is one of the best vocalists and frontmen of all time.
Adele is talented, but extremely overrated.
Lady Gaga's level of talent is special and she is easily one of the best performers around today.
Ronnie James Dio was a far better vocalist than Ozzy Osbourne.
Noel Gallagher still can't bend the strings of his guitar(s) in tune when playing solos.
"Who run the world? Girls". Matthew Knowles and Shawn Carter created your world, so you might want to re-think that.
What's the point about Fantasia not being marketable though?
Jennifer Hudson and Mary J Blige are marketable.
i know, when i first joined music forums i was bewhildered by the ammount of fans carey/houston/dion have, because i dont know anyone in real life who think they are anything short of awful. i too hate vocal gymnastics, theres no need as a real singer can portray emotion simply by singing, because they have a feel for the subject, not the purse.
nice to read an intelligent comment from a non fan!
Thanks
I think those are the ones I would agree with, especially the David Guetta reference. I'm not sure how unpopular they are?
It depends if the criteria is unpopular in general or unpopular here at DS. Even with the latter one, I'd expect the majority here to disagree with me on the 4 you quoted. Glad you agree with them, though
Why, is the music of Elvis beyond criticism. I know what I like and I don't follow the crowds.
Not saying it just to be different, I agree with the poster who said Robbie Williams as well.
Beyonce as mentioned is a product. Her songs could be sung by ANYONE hence them being fodder for talent shows such as the X-Factor. She lacks emotion in her voice, and everything about her is managed. Jennifer Hudson is WAAAAY better and more talented.
Will.i.am is a talentless hack - Anyone can make random noises on a computer and write meaningless shite.
UK acts going to America isn't everything. We are in EUROPE - there is lucrative markets in Germany, Sweden, France, Italy and unchartered terrtority in Russia. Australia and the Far East is a good way to get fans too. If UK acts want to crack America, stay true to your sound! Why hire BOB or Sean Paul to rap some gibberish unrelated the song? If the Yanks don't like you, screw em.
Downloads have DAMAGED the UK single charts. This has led to a static chart, and almost impossible for self-made acts to have a surprise hit unless they're in an advert. The system is open to abuse and anyone can mass download a single. This has cheapened selling a million as an achievement. The 2004-2007 era of low sales at least had an equal playing field for acts.
I think a chart shake-up is needed. Say 25% jury consisting of critics, and a few members of the public and 75% sales. EVERY act has to submit a live performance with NO miming and NO fakery. Any act who fails, has a six month chart ban. This also stops crims such as T.I and Chris Brown having hits.
Scouting For Girls are a bit of fun. Music doesn't have to be serious, over-singing (Jessie J/Beyonce take note).
I agree with these.
Agreed. I think A LOT of this is the fact governments are pushing the working and lower classes out of society especially the UK since 2010 well since 1979 but save that for a politics thread.
It seems working class people only have X-Factor/The Voice/BGT to break through and that's because the people who run these shows who are MIDDLE CLASS can manipulate the working/lower classes.
Most other European nations have singers from poor backgrounds working their way up and having big hits. We're elitist.
I'm deaf because I don't like Elvis, he was about the image as much.
Just because I'm not a karaoke wannabee or a 50+ woman who orgasms over him.
You just have to accept that not all things are up for critique. And you can't always look back with the eyes of today and understand the past. The early (50s) Elvis is very important in the development of pop music as we know it - white man singing black music and all that. Elvis was an exceptionally gifted singer and pioneered some of the more liberating aspects of Rock N'Roll.
The later Elvis had lost much of that early swagger and is not beyond criticism.