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Is Torchwood in Doctor Who canon?
Sora2311
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Like does the events in Torchwood effect Doctor Who and vise versa? I don't recall ever hearing about a Torchwood story in doctor who and even during miracle day nothing was mentioned.
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In Torchwood
In Doctor Who
But you're right - since Moffat took over he's pretty much erased/ignored everything from the (far superior) RTD era. Which I think is a great shame
Not that I care about either any longer. Moffat ignoring TW is not something I care to be annoyed with. I would rather see more UNIT than some second hand attempt to rebuild that flailing organisation in the main show.
As for TW affecting Who. DW is the prime show - Torchwood doesn't need to be written in a way which demands attention or references to all of it's plot lines. While fans would appreciate it, I'm sure - it doesn't need to be pandered to.
Torchwood isn't in the same position it was under Moffat than it was under RTD. I suspect there was some intention in that.
Just because they haven't been mentioned doesn't erase them from the canon. I'm positive we'll see Jack again at some point (apparently Moffat wanted to bring him back for 'A Good Man...'), and after the events Miracle Day, Torchwood disbanded and doesn't really exist anymore.
Ain't necessarily so: the line in the Wedding of River Song " I could go to all of Jack's stag-does on one night?"
The Ponds and Williamses don't seem to have lived through the events of Miracle Day in either the Crack!Universe nor post Big Bang 2, however, and I am grateful for that!
Ever considered that when Moffat took over he may have wanted to start the new Doctor's era with new companions and not completely focused on stuff Davies did? From what I can gather, not many companions from the classic series were mentioned again after their departure or after the Doctor they travelled with regenerated. For example, Adric was important throughout the Fifth Doctor's era, and his death affected Five deeply, but after he regerated into Six he was basically forgotten about.
As for Torchwood, there isn't exactly much to reference or continue since the series left off... before Miracle Day we were left with most of the team dead, Gwen pregnant, and Jack off on a spaceship somewhere. Miracle Day seemed as though it was in a different universe and canon to Doctor Who to be honest. But even if it wasn't, it was left with Gwen, Jack, and Rex just after Esther's funeral, with no base and no clear direction for what would happen next. Seriously, we have no idea where they would be now or what would have happened.
I would love to see Jack get brought back at some point, but would it be just him or the three of them? Would Miracle Day be referenced? See, it wouldn't be so easy as to just bring him back without any explanation - or if that did happen, then people would complain there was no explanation of where in his life he was, what happened between MD and his next DW appearance. I think if RTD wrote another story or two for the current series, then it could work. But what has Moffat actually been left with in terms of bringing Jack or the Torchwood team back? Just my "two cents", as they say.
"Can we all just get along?" - Rodney King
EDIT: Yoshee took the words right out of my mouth.
Moffat has carried over more elements from RTD than any other previous DW Showrunner has from their predesessor. The similarities between the Graham Williams era and the Hinchcliffe era can be counted on one hand!
Well that's my excuse(s) on why both series that should have had a massive prolonged and negative effect on the Whoniverse have never been referenced again. Especially Miracle Day!
Firstly, SM's era is not a reign of terror. Not that there's anything wrong with the Reign Of Terror, it was one of Hartnell's better stories.
Secondly, if Torchwood and Jack have been forgotten by SM, all I can say is so what? Torchwood, after starting off quite good, pretty soon became crap, and in retrospect there was nothing that special about Jack Harkness either.
...its a damn shame he wasn't able to.
But that aside would Doctor Who be enhanced if every so often the Doctor went 'Hey! Remember that guy Ianto Jones...'and goes all misty eyed? No. No it wouldn't.
I just shake my head at what Torchwood became. "Children of Earth" was so bloody good I just don't know how RTD could mess it up so badly.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1444917
:eek:
I still recall photos of that shrine to Ianto that was created (outside the TV studios I think)
Fixed.
(And before you get Auntie's bloomers in a spin, I LIKE RTD's era)
Canon in who has always been loose.
The shrine was (is?) in Mermaid Quay where the TW entrance was.
It was still there last year, and even had an official council plaque. I think the council considered it a tourist attraction!
Miracle Day, basically, botched all that up. It takes place over several months, is a massive world wide event that would have shaken it to the core, and not a single mention is made in DW. The very slim argument as to the Doctor's absence is that, while Miracle Day is going on, he's looking for River and ignoring all his calls. But, come on. He's ignoring Amy's calls because he feels guilty. There's no way in hell he'd ignore a call for help from Martha, or Sarah-Jane, both of whom, presumably, experienced Miracle Day as well. And all it took to get him back to Earth was a crop circle. Try nobody being able to die, Doctor. That not serious enough for you?
Tbh, it's very hard to slot Miracle Day into DW canon, and I'm not entirely sure we are supposed to, at least until the day comes Jack appears in DW again. In which case, don't be surprised if none of the events of Miracle Day are referenced. Tbh, Miracle Day was pretty crap, so I can quite easily pretend it never happened.
Great post. The world would be much better off without Miracle Day
Nope. It's a spin-off. No spin-off ever has any say on its parent show. It is entirely the other way round - the main show comes first (as it always should), and things that happen in that could affect the spin-off. It is madness to think the spin-off should affect the main show! :rolleyes:
When it's a big event like no one in the world can flipping die I think they could at least make a passing reference like Amy: Doctor nobody on earth can die. Doctor: Don't worry my mate Jack takes care of that. As he has been to 2012 and everything was normal he wouldn't want to interfere
It's interesting to hear a positive opinion of Miracle Day, perhaps away from all the hype of it?
I personally thought it was a pretty poor effort, though nowhere near as bad as so many people suggest it is. The last two episodes were quite strong, but it really could all have been told in five episodes. And though I shan't spoil it for you, there was a distinct development in the tenth episode that I really didn't like.
In regards to canon, it's always been pretty loose with Doctor Who anyway. But there are references across the whole four series...
- The Doctor's hand which was cut off in DW2: The Christmas Invasion appears in the first series of Torchwood numerous times. Jack takes it with him when he leaves at the end of the series. The hand goes on to be important to The Master's plan in DW3: The Sound of Drums/Last of the Timelords, and again when it grows into the Metacrisis Doctor with Donna Noble, and remains in the parallel world with Rose Tyler in DW4: Journey's End.
- The TARDIS is heard at the end of the first series, leading into the event of DW3: Utopia.
- The three story arcs from Doctor Who's first three series are referenced in the first series. There is a reference to 'Bad Wolf; a reference to 'Vote Saxon' and of course Series 2 having the whole Torchwood arc. The Battle of Canary Wharf from Series 2 is mentioned several times over, with it being significant to the events of TW1: Cyberwoman. The Cybermen are seen in the form of the Cyberwoman, and also in a blueprint at the hub.
- A less direct link is the appearance of Abaddon in TW1: End of Days. He is described as the son of The Beast, alluding to the Satanic being in DW2: The Satan Pit.
- The second series finale of Torchwood makes numerous references to Doctor Who content. TW2: Fragments sees an appearance from UNIT, whilst TW2: Exit Wounds includes the appearance of a Hoix which appeared in DW2: Love & Monsters and DW5: The Pandorica Opens, as well as referencing Toshiko's appearance in DW1: Aliens of London via the "space pig".
- UNIT are an established presence in Torchwood, with various references to them. They play a sort-of significant role in TW2: Fragments, and have a representative in TW3: Children of Earth.
- An article about Margaret Slitheen is seen in the first series of Torchwood, referencing the character from DW1: Aliens of London/World War Three and DW1: Boom Town.
- As a whole, the series of Torchwood adheres to the continuity of a space-time rift being situated in Cardiff, according to DW1: The Unquiet Dead and DW1: Boom Town. It also sticks with the formation and history of the Torchwood Institute founded by Queen Victoria in DW2: Tooth and Claw.
- For the most part, Torchwood also sticks to the continuity of Jack's immortality which was set up in DW1: The Parting of the Ways. This was controversially cast aside in the final episode of TW4: Miracle Day.
- In reflection, DW1: The Parting of the Ways referred to Torchwood, and made a suggestion that Canary Wharf (Torchwood One) would go on to become the Great Cobalt Pyramid.
- The species from which the star-poet alien in The Sarah Jane Adventures: Invasion of the Bane derives makes a second appearance, in TW1: Greeks Bearing Gifts.
- An episode of TW4: Miracle Day makes reference to the Trickster's Brigade - a threat identified by The Doctor in DW4: Turn Left. In turn, The Trickster behind this brigade is a recurring adversary in The Sarah Jane Adventures, appearing in the first three series and the unfilmed Series 5 finale.
- Some time after travelling with The Doctor in DW3, Martha joins Torchwood for the space of three episodes in the second series.
- In the wake of the events in DW4: The Stolen Earth/Journey's End according to Dr. Patanjali there have been suicides from people who were driven mad by the scale of the universe.
- The Silurians, Huon particles and the Racnoss are mentioned in TW4: Miracle Day's final episode.
- There are many references and mentions to The Doctor thoughout the four series. The most significant and notable was mentions of him in TW3: Children of Earth when Gwen addressed a video camera saying that The Doctor must sometimes look at Earth and turn away in shame.
- Captain Jack has been most recently referenced in the sixth series finale episode of DW6: The Wedding of River Song.
Although the references have faded over time, they have been present throughout Torchwood from its first to last episodes. I believe Series 7 has been the first of Doctor Who not to make a single reference to Torchwood or a Torchwood character at all.