They believe the Kim's are divine. Therefore they are not atheist.
Who are they? It is like saying that all Christians were responsible for all atrocitities throughout the ages when they didnt even have access to Scripture; most couldnt even read and most were men anyway. Women were second class citizens.
They are forced to acknowledge; no-one knows what they 'believe.' What about people in China? They are converting to religion in droves after being forced into Communism for so long? What does a person do when death is the option. They are not martyrs and rightfully so.
Who are they? It is like saying that all Christians were responsible for all atrocitires throughout the ages when they didnt even have access to Scripture; most couldnt even read and most were men anyway. Women were second class citizens.
They are forced to ackowledge; no-one knows what they 'believe.' What about people in China? They are converting to religion in droves after being forced into Communism for so long?
That is bending the argument to try and be right. What they have a choice in believing is not the point, not many people had a choice in the west in the last 2,000 years of Christian dominance. That does not mean Chrisitianity is invalid as a religion.
I never said anyone was responsible for the atrocities, but you cannot argue that it is an atheist state.
Wow wow wow! Calm down there! I never said it was okay.
All I'm saying is that because they are persecuting other religions does not automatically mean they have to be atheists.
I am not in denial. You are simply because you have the wrong definition; a definition which suits your own agenda.
No, my problem is not that it's an atheist state. My problem is that it quite obviously isn't yet you insist that it is because it doesn't suit you.
Stop jumping to ridiculous conclusions and stop assuming we filthy atheists have some kind of denial complex or whatever.
Amazing how jumpy some atheists get when crimes cannot be put at the door of religion. Does it make you look at the world differently?
I have never called atheists filthy btw. I have never derided atheists for lack of belief. This argument has never been about an atheist state. Methinks some of you are protesting far too much.
My parents were atheist btw, so are most of my family and so are .....................none of them are anything like some of you............
Who are they? It is like saying that all Christians were responsible for all atrocitities throughout the ages when they didnt even have access to Scripture; most couldnt even read and most were men anyway. Women were second class citizens.
It's not like saying anything of the sort. You are jumping to ridiculous conclusions again.
They are forced to acknowledge; no-one knows what they 'believe.' What about people in China? They are converting to religion in droves after being forced into Communism for so long? What does a person do when death is the option. They are not martyrs and rightfully so.
So because they are forced to acknowledge they are in fact atheists?
Plenty of Muslim countries (and Christian countries in the past) force their citizens to subscribe to one particular faith? Are they atheists?
Anyway, they aren't unwilling to believe the "Great Leader" is divine. They've been taught that he is from birth just like many people I know have been taught from birth that Jesus is divine. Many still hold this belief to this day and some don't. It's the same in North Korea except those who reject Kim-Jong whatever he's called's divinity are most probably killed.
Amazing how jumpy some atheists get when crimes cannot be put at the door of religion. Does it make you look at the world differently?
I have never called atheists filthy btw. I have never derided atheists for lack of belief. This argument has never been about an atheist state. Methinks some of you are protesting far too much.
My parents were atheist btw, so are most of my family and so are .....................none of them are anything like some of you............
This is beyond ridiculous. You clearly have some agenda against atheists. I'm arguing about North Korea based on the definition of theism/deism and by that definition, North Korea cannot possibly be an atheist state. I wouldn't care if it was. The Soviet Union was an atheist state and they committed horrific atrocities....but North Korea IS NOT. It cannot be. It is not an atheist state. They worship a divine leader for goodness sake!
You act like you have a clear agenda and are misunderstanding most of what we say to you and you wonder why we're getting "jumpy". Then you have the cheek to blame it on our atheism.
That is bending the argument to try and be right. What they have a choice in believing is not the point, not many people had a choice in the west in the last 2,000 years of Christian dominance. That does not mean Chrisitianity is invalid as a religion.
Does it not? Surely if they didn't have a choice and they had no access to the scriptures and were only believing what was dictated to them (no doubt bent to align with the current political agenda) then they were atheists not Christians.
That is bending the argument to try and be right. What they have a choice in believing is not the point, not many people had a choice in the west in the last 2,000 years of Christian dominance. That does not mean Chrisitianity is invalid as a religion.
I never said anyone was responsible for the atrocities, but you cannot argue that it is an atheist state.
The people of North Korea most certainly do not have a choice; not in their public adulation or in their private beliefs. They are under a regime which dictates who they are and what they are to think. What they 'believe' might be something entirely different.
Does it not? Surely if they didn't have a choice and they had no access to the scriptures and were only believing what was dictated to them (no doubt bent to align with the current political agenda) then they were atheists not Christians.
They were forced into wars by their leaders. Leaders used whatever means necessary. All some people had were sermons on a Sunday; then sometimes not even understood. So I agree many people were probably not even believers through the ages.
The people of North Korea most certainly do not have a choice; not in their public adulation or in their private beliefs. They are under a regime which dictates who they are and what they are to think. What they 'believe' might be something entirely different.
I never said they had a choice. Indoctrinated children of any religion don't have a choice, but it doesn't make them atheist.
Amazing how jumpy some atheists get when crimes cannot be put at the door of religion. Does it make you look at the world differently?
I have never called atheists filthy btw. I have never derided atheists for lack of belief. This argument has never been about an atheist state. Methinks some of you are protesting far too much.
,,,,.
How ignorant can you get? An American was on trial for his life; facing execution for what? People are in death camps just for reading the bible? You silly little person. Read up on the atrocities of North Korea before you make such revolting little posts.
And, 'theist' simply means belief in God. It doesnt mean a belief in human beings.
And, atheist means lack of belief in God. That is what they are. Exactly what they are, atheists.
It's not like saying anything of the sort. You are jumping to ridiculous conclusions again.
So because they are forced to acknowledge they are in fact atheists?
Plenty of Muslim countries (and Christian countries in the past) force their citizens to subscribe to one particular faith? Are they atheists?
Anyway, they aren't unwilling to believe the "Great Leader" is divine. They've been taught that he is from birth just like many people I know have been taught from birth that Jesus is divine. Many still hold this belief to this day and some don't. It's the same in North Korea except those who reject Kim-Jong whatever he's called's divinity are most probably killed.
This is beyond ridiculous. You clearly have some agenda against atheists. I'm arguing about North Korea based on the definition of theism/deism and by that definition, North Korea cannot possibly be an atheist state. I wouldn't care if it was. The Soviet Union was an atheist state and they committed horrific atrocities....but North Korea IS NOT. It cannot be. It is not an atheist state. They worship a divine leader for goodness sake!
You act like you have a clear agenda and are misunderstanding most of what we say to you and you wonder why we're getting "jumpy". Then you have the cheek to blame it on our atheism.
Jumpy indeed!
I dont think I have actually blamed it on 'your atheism' it is the way you are choosing to interprete it.
But, it would appear that you have no hesitation in blaming what is going on in North Korea on 'my religion' (not literally in case of confusion).
No, I dont think I have referred to North Korea as an atheist state. In fact, when this conversation first started before it went on to North Korea at all; I specifically referred to nothing being done 'in the name of atheism.'
As atheism is simple a lack of belief in God and theism is a belief in God which is supernatural; and, most people are blaming religion or leaders as being seen as god, then I do have the right to define theists and atheists.
Amazing how jumpy some atheists get when crimes cannot be put at the door of religion. Does it make you look at the world differently?
I have never called atheists filthy btw. I have never derided atheists for lack of belief. This argument has never been about an atheist state. Methinks some of you are protesting far too much.
My parents were atheist btw, so are most of my family and so are .....................none of them are anything like some of you............
I dont think I have actually blamed it on 'your atheism' it is the way you are choosing to interprete it.
But, it would appear that you have no hesitation in blaming what is going on in North Korea on 'my religion' (not literally in case of confusion).
I really do think you need to think this through.
BIB: Blaming it on my atheism because some atheists obviously get frustrated when they can't blame religion. Obviously. There's no way it's because by definition North Korea isn't an atheist state.
Good grief, you've jumped to another insanely ridiculous conclusion. Where have I stated that I blamed your religion on North Korea? I don't remember ever even insinuating that anywhere ever let alone all out stating it.
No, I dont think I have referred to North Korea as an atheist state. In fact, when this conversation first started before it went on to North Korea at all; I specifically referred to nothing being done 'in the name of atheism.'
Yes you did. Post 1216:
"This is not a religious state. Therefore, because there is no God it is by definition atheist"
As atheism is simple a lack of belief in God and theism is a belief in God which is supernatural; and, most people are blaming religion or leaders as being seen as god, then I do have the right to define theists and atheists.
BIB: Blaming it on my atheism because some atheists obviously get frustrated when they can't blame religion. Obviously. There's no way it's because by definition North Korea isn't an atheist state.
Good grief, you've jumped to another insanely ridiculous conclusion. Where have I stated that I blamed your religion on North Korea? I don't remember ever even insinuating that anywhere ever let alone all out stating it.
Did you miss the bit where I said it wasnt literal? Or did you choose to disregard it?
Ok you have no hesitation in blaming religion but appear to get jumpy when you interprete it as your atheism is being blamed.
It doesnt even occur to you that religious folk might find it offensive does it? No. But, you take offence at it so easily?
Really anyone would think atheism was some kind of belief system or religion in itself rather than a simple lack of belief in God/s.
People I know in real life, think of it as just a lack of belief in God - that is all. Full stop. It is not an insult. It just is what it is. Or, it is what it is not if you would prefer.
Ok you have no hesitation in blaming religion but appear to get jumpy when you interprete it as your atheism is being blamed.
It doesnt even occur to you that religious folk might find it offensive does it? No. But, you take offence at it so easily?
I am not blaming religion!!
Get a grip!
The fact that North Korea is in reality a religious state has nothing to do with the atrocities committed. It just means exactly was it says on the tin- it is a religious state. Nothing more. This does not mean that religion is to blame for anything. This does not mean that I hate religion because of this. All it means is that North Korea is a religious state!
You continue and continue to misunderstand everything and constantly jump to the wrong conclusion.
Oh please. Because one religion persecutes another then it is Ok then?
No, it is wrong for one religion to persecute another. It is wrong for common folk to suffer genocide for their beliefs. This isnt religion, this is dictatorship. This is human ego. Not God.
This is denial. This is not a religious state. Therefore, because there is no God it is by definition atheist. My argument hasnt been that it is an atheist state btw. That appears to be your hangup - not mine. I am argueing that it is not religious.
Did you miss the bit where I said it wasnt literal? Or did you choose to disregard it?
Ok you have no hesitation in blaming religion but appear to get jumpy when you interprete it as your atheism is being blamed.
It doesnt even occur to you that religious folk might find it offensive does it? No. But, you take offence at it so easily?
Really anyone would think atheism was some kind of belief system or religion in itself rather than a simple lack of belief in God/s.
People I know in real life, think of it as just a lack of belief in God - that is all. Full stop. It is not an insult. It just is what it is. Or, it is what it is not if you would prefer.
Either your understanding is extremely poor or you are deliberately being obnoxious.
The fact that North Korea is in reality a religious state has nothing to do with the atrocities committed. It just means exactly was it says on the tin- it is a religious state. Nothing more. This does not mean that religion is to blame for anything. This does not mean that I hate religion because of this. All it means is that North Korea is a religious state!
You continue and continue to misunderstand everything and constantly jump to the wrong conclusion.
...and you just casually side-step the matter at hand- that you seem to be accusing me of blaming the North Korean situation on religion when I have never done anything of the sort.
...and you just casually side-step the matter at hand- that you seem to be accusing me of blaming the North Korean situation when I have never done anything of the sort.
I have been in one very long conversation which started yesterday, you came into it this morning by calling me childish. Now I am not going to go back on the entire postings again to see who blamed who for what. I apologise is something has been scrambled, but I didnt mean it to be.
I have been in one very long conversation which started yesterday, you came into it this morning by calling me childish. Now I am not going to go back on the entire postings again to see who blamed who for what. I apologise is something has been scrambled, but I didnt mean it to be.
The people of North Korea most certainly do not have a choice; not in their public adulation or in their private beliefs. They are under a regime which dictates who they are and what they are to think. What they 'believe' might be something entirely different.
They have the exact same choice that the Christian god gives people; believe or suffer.
Comments
Who are they? It is like saying that all Christians were responsible for all atrocitities throughout the ages when they didnt even have access to Scripture; most couldnt even read and most were men anyway. Women were second class citizens.
They are forced to acknowledge; no-one knows what they 'believe.' What about people in China? They are converting to religion in droves after being forced into Communism for so long? What does a person do when death is the option. They are not martyrs and rightfully so.
That is bending the argument to try and be right. What they have a choice in believing is not the point, not many people had a choice in the west in the last 2,000 years of Christian dominance. That does not mean Chrisitianity is invalid as a religion.
I never said anyone was responsible for the atrocities, but you cannot argue that it is an atheist state.
Amazing how jumpy some atheists get when crimes cannot be put at the door of religion. Does it make you look at the world differently?
I have never called atheists filthy btw. I have never derided atheists for lack of belief. This argument has never been about an atheist state. Methinks some of you are protesting far too much.
My parents were atheist btw, so are most of my family and so are .....................none of them are anything like some of you............
It's not like saying anything of the sort. You are jumping to ridiculous conclusions again.
So because they are forced to acknowledge they are in fact atheists?
Plenty of Muslim countries (and Christian countries in the past) force their citizens to subscribe to one particular faith? Are they atheists?
Anyway, they aren't unwilling to believe the "Great Leader" is divine. They've been taught that he is from birth just like many people I know have been taught from birth that Jesus is divine. Many still hold this belief to this day and some don't. It's the same in North Korea except those who reject Kim-Jong whatever he's called's divinity are most probably killed.
This is beyond ridiculous. You clearly have some agenda against atheists. I'm arguing about North Korea based on the definition of theism/deism and by that definition, North Korea cannot possibly be an atheist state. I wouldn't care if it was. The Soviet Union was an atheist state and they committed horrific atrocities....but North Korea IS NOT. It cannot be. It is not an atheist state. They worship a divine leader for goodness sake!
You act like you have a clear agenda and are misunderstanding most of what we say to you and you wonder why we're getting "jumpy". Then you have the cheek to blame it on our atheism.
Does it not? Surely if they didn't have a choice and they had no access to the scriptures and were only believing what was dictated to them (no doubt bent to align with the current political agenda) then they were atheists not Christians.
The people of North Korea most certainly do not have a choice; not in their public adulation or in their private beliefs. They are under a regime which dictates who they are and what they are to think. What they 'believe' might be something entirely different.
They were forced into wars by their leaders. Leaders used whatever means necessary. All some people had were sermons on a Sunday; then sometimes not even understood. So I agree many people were probably not even believers through the ages.
I never said they had a choice. Indoctrinated children of any religion don't have a choice, but it doesn't make them atheist.
But yesterday you said it was;
Jumpy indeed!
I dont think I have actually blamed it on 'your atheism' it is the way you are choosing to interprete it.
But, it would appear that you have no hesitation in blaming what is going on in North Korea on 'my religion' (not literally in case of confusion).
I really do think you need to think this through.
No, I dont think I have referred to North Korea as an atheist state. In fact, when this conversation first started before it went on to North Korea at all; I specifically referred to nothing being done 'in the name of atheism.'
As atheism is simple a lack of belief in God and theism is a belief in God which is supernatural; and, most people are blaming religion or leaders as being seen as god, then I do have the right to define theists and atheists.
Dont you think?
BIB: Blaming it on my atheism because some atheists obviously get frustrated when they can't blame religion. Obviously. There's no way it's because by definition North Korea isn't an atheist state.
Good grief, you've jumped to another insanely ridiculous conclusion. Where have I stated that I blamed your religion on North Korea? I don't remember ever even insinuating that anywhere ever let alone all out stating it.
"This is not a religious state. Therefore, because there is no God it is by definition atheist"
No I don't.
Did you miss the bit where I said it wasnt literal? Or did you choose to disregard it?
Ok you have no hesitation in blaming religion but appear to get jumpy when you interprete it as your atheism is being blamed.
It doesnt even occur to you that religious folk might find it offensive does it? No. But, you take offence at it so easily?
Really anyone would think atheism was some kind of belief system or religion in itself rather than a simple lack of belief in God/s.
People I know in real life, think of it as just a lack of belief in God - that is all. Full stop. It is not an insult. It just is what it is. Or, it is what it is not if you would prefer.
I am not blaming religion!!
Get a grip!
The fact that North Korea is in reality a religious state has nothing to do with the atrocities committed. It just means exactly was it says on the tin- it is a religious state. Nothing more. This does not mean that religion is to blame for anything. This does not mean that I hate religion because of this. All it means is that North Korea is a religious state!
You continue and continue to misunderstand everything and constantly jump to the wrong conclusion.
Dont snip!!
Either your understanding is extremely poor or you are deliberately being obnoxious.
No it is not!!
No my understanding is fine thanks. How is your interpretation?
...and you just casually side-step the matter at hand- that you seem to be accusing me of blaming the North Korean situation on religion when I have never done anything of the sort.
I have been in one very long conversation which started yesterday, you came into it this morning by calling me childish. Now I am not going to go back on the entire postings again to see who blamed who for what. I apologise is something has been scrambled, but I didnt mean it to be.
No problem. Glad that mess is sorted.
My understanding or my being obnoxious? What didnt you understand about my replies to you for example?
They have the exact same choice that the Christian god gives people; believe or suffer.