This is the problem - C4 used to synonymous with high quality US imports, and also used to have very strong 'blocks' of programming e.g. comedy on a Friday. There's no discernible flavour to the schedule in any way these days, and C4 is much poorer as a result.
In 2013 ought a network channel be reliant on imports in primetime?? Viewers don't give many new UK comedy shows a chance - myself included. Why for example does a BBC Three / Channel 4 show rate under 1 million, viewers either expect it to be poor - or not for them, without even watching.
Channel 4 has hit programmes, some rate 2.5m viewers easily, I don't watch the channel personally - but it can pull in viewers in primetime with the right format.
Channel 5 now pulling ahead of Channel 4. Surely a shake up is needed and some new programming instead of the same tired shows and shows about medical freak conditions.
I know some people on here look down on Channel 5, but a supposed low rent channel with apparently nothing on is becoming the fourth channel. A revamped BB, the Aussie hour, American crime dramas, decent factual and classic films seem to be getting the viewers.
Channel 5 has regular, solid rating programmes it can build around - the Australian soaps, Big Brother, CSI etc.
What does Channel 4 have in that regard? The Simpsons (peaked 15 years ago), Deal or No Deal (peaked 7 years ago), Hollyoaks (peaked about 10 years ago). It keeps commissioning derivitive makeover shows which lost their popularity years ago too. Of course it has 24 Hours in A&E (which is over commissioned), but really it's lost it's identity. Losing Big Brother looks a mistake now, but easy to say that with hindsight. And if they did carry on with it they'd be getting plenty of flack too. But, they need it.
They do alright for BBC1, but those are just standard figures for cheap factual. With the exception of Nick & Margaret, none of it is that impressive (and even they took a dive this week). I can't imagine any of it would have done particularly good business on C4.
If you look at the special factual programmes, for the post-news slot that is very good in comparison with what a lot of the normal programming in that slot gets. I think a couple of the shows (My £9.50 Holiday and Wheelers, Dealers and Del Boys) could easily have rated over 3m if they had been put in the 8pm or 9pm slot.
In 2013 ought a network channel be reliant on imports in primetime?? Viewers don't give many new UK comedy shows a chance - myself included. Why for example does a BBC Three / Channel 4 show rate under 1 million, viewers either expect it to be poor - or not for them, without even watching.
Channel 4 has hit programmes, some rate 2.5m viewers easily, I don't watch the channel personally - but it can pull in viewers in primetime with the right format.
Having watched a lot of Channel 4's new programmes this year for a project which will soon be revealed, I can definitely say that a lot of their new stuff is crap! It lacks imagination and creativity, and there is a lack of a sense of story in a lot of their factual output, with the exception of a couple of shows. The things that do well on C4 are one-off pieces, and a channel simply can't live like that.
Also, I think comparing Channel 4 with BBC Three, in the way that you have, says a lot about the current state of Channel 4.
Channel 5 has regular, solid rating programmes it can build around - the Australian soaps, Big Brother, CSI etc.
What does Channel 4 have in that regard? The Simpsons (peaked 15 years ago), Deal or No Deal (peaked 7 years ago), Hollyoaks (peaked about 10 years ago). It keeps commissioning derivitive makeover shows which lost their popularity years ago too. Of course it has 24 Hours in A&E (which is over commissioned), but really it's lost it's identity. Losing Big Brother looks a mistake now, but easy to say that with hindsight. And if they did carry on with it they'd be getting plenty of flack too. But, they need it.
Before they decided not to renew the Big Brother contract, they really should have had 2 or 3 shows that could replace it and deliver good audiences. In that regard, I blame the previous management (but the current management are making the previous ones look competent).
ITV are axing Dancing on Ice next year, and by trying things like Your Face Sounds Familiar, Just 1 Thing and their new celeb-Strictly type dancing show they are clearly looking for replacements that will deliver to just as big an audience as DOI. That is a very sensible move IMO and is an example of good channel management.
By the way, does anyone have C4's ratings at 8pm and 9pm for last night (Four Rooms and MPD)? Many thanks.
Channel 5 now pulling ahead of Channel 4. Surely a shake up is needed and some new programming instead of the same tired shows and shows about medical freak conditions.
I know some people on here look down on Channel 5, but a supposed low rent channel with apparently nothing on is becoming the fourth channel. A revamped BB, the Aussie hour, American crime dramas, decent factual and classic films seem to be getting the viewers.
The thing is though that C5 is only really ahead of C4 because of C4's very poor performance rather than C5 really upping their game.
C5 has popped ahead before but as soon as Big Brother has finished it has slipped back down to a comfortable 5th place.
Having watched a lot of Channel 4's new programmes this year for a project which will soon be revealed, I can definitely say that a lot of their new stuff is crap! It lacks imagination and creativity, and there is a lack of a sense of story in a lot of their factual output, with the exception of a couple of shows. The things that do well on C4 are one-off pieces, and a channel simply can't live like that.
Disagree that C4 isn't creative, they have a great range of unique programming that you wouldn't find anywhere else on British TV or free-to-air TV at the very least. You have shows on Ramadan, Murder Trial, The Returned, Drugs Live, Easter Eggs Live, Bedtime Live etc. The fact is that people just aren't watching them, the programming is aimed at so many different demographics that it has no real core audience and a channel that size needs a core audience, a regular viewer.
Before they decided not to renew the Big Brother contract, they really should have had 2 or 3 shows that could replace it and deliver good audiences. In that regard, I blame the previous management (but the current management are making the previous ones look competent).
ITV are axing Dancing on Ice next year, and by trying things like Your Face Sounds Familiar, Just 1 Thing and their new celeb-Strictly type dancing show they are clearly looking for replacements that will deliver to just as big an audience as DOI. That is a very sensible move IMO and is an example of good channel management.
Agree about needing to prep replacements for Bif Brother. BB was a huge show for C4 and simply axing it and believing they could use the money saved to find new hit formats and shows and achieve the same figures as BB was short sighted and foolish to put it kindly
Bound to be some changes to the schedules at some point then, to air tributes, repeats of Not the Nine o'Clock News, Alas Smith and Jones etc.
I can't recall any of the Smith and Jones shows appearing on BBC One since the final new series in 1998, so I wonder if the rights were sold with Talkback. Although I suppose the earliest Alas ones were made by the BBC.
True, not to forget that Ch5 was third in all day shares around four times last week above Ch4 and BBC2. They must be thrilled.
All good stuff and the variety of programmes is good. I think once the soaps are over by 6.30, they provide a genuine alternative until 9.00 to the two main channels. BB seems to be holding up well for them with 1.5 million.
The thing is though that C5 is only really ahead of C4 because of C4's very poor performance rather than C5 really upping their game.
I think that's a little unfair. It's mostly to do with C4 losing the plot but not exclusively so. To suggest C5 hasn't made any progress at all is harsh. The average C5 share for July in the past 5 years has been 4.6%. On many occasions recently they've been above the 5% mark in the all day shares, even as high as 5.7%. Obviously it remains to be seen where the monthly share will end up but it's looking good if this can be maintained. And the number of third or fourth place finishes in the space of the past few weeks has been unprecedented. So I think you have to give C5 some credit for their recent ratings performance as well, as it's not just about C4 being especially weak when they've also been beating BBC2 some days and putting some distance between themselves and the fourth most popular channel.
Channel 5 seem to be going from strength to strength. Some of their factual entertainment programming is rating in the millions on a regular basis now. They always targeted beating channel 4 for share, and they are achieving this regularly now due to better programming, and channel 4 going stale. Next challenge is to overtake bbc2.
For me, it has never been a better time for channel 5 to start commissioning some original comedy and drama to enhance their growing popularity.
Not sure if you missed it or not, but the channel's controller has indicated a new original drama is in the pipeline with more details expected to be announced soon. They've sort of put the kibosh on comedy though - even imported. Despite a change of ownership and numerous controllers coming and going, the wounds from Joey still havent healed!
I can't say I blame them though as it's such a tough genre to get right. I'm sure I could count on one hand the number of scripted comedies I've liked in the past few years and I don't think I'm alone in that regard. Whilst the BBC should be commended for still being strong supporters albeit without facing the same ratings pressures as the commercial channels, too much of it leaves you wondering how on earth it got commissioned (like In with the Flynns). And as ITV has shown, even the ones with a lot of confidence behind them (like Vicious) can end up not hitting the spot for viewers. C4 are still doing some good stuff (Peep Show being the obvious example) but it's hardly working on a ratings level. Sky meanwhile haven't had a huge amount of joy here either despite a fair amount of investment (Spy, which received mostly excellent reviews, was cancelled after two series).
I'm not sure comedy is what people turn to C5 for anyway and it would probably just get lost. A panel show might work around BB but TV is hardly short on those at the moment. I think concentrating on strengthening their drama proposition with some compelling originals to complement their quality roster of imports from around the world is the way to go.
Bound to be some changes to the schedules at some point then, to air tributes, repeats of Not the Nine o'Clock News, Alas Smith and Jones etc.
They'll probably repeat The Wolves of Willoughby Chase, in which Mel starred with Stephanie Beacham, who played Letitia Slighcarp, a sort of Victorian Sable.
I think that's a little unfair. It's mostly to do with C4 losing the plot but not exclusively so. To suggest C5 hasn't made any progress at all is harsh. The average C5 share for July in the past 5 years has been 4.6%. On many occasions recently they've been above the 5% mark in the all day shares, even as high as 5.7%. Obviously it remains to be seen where the monthly share will end up but it's looking good if this can be maintained. And the number of third or fourth place finishes in the space of the past few weeks has been unprecedented. So I think you have to give C5 some credit for their recent ratings performance as well, as it's not just about C4 being especially weak when they've also been beating BBC2 some days and putting some distance between themselves and the fourth most popular channel.
I wasn't trying to do C5 down, they have certainly been performing solidly and have a management team that clearly know what they're doing. But, like you say, its mostly C4's poor performance that is accountable.
In 2013 ought a network channel be reliant on imports in primetime?? Viewers don't give many new UK comedy shows a chance - myself included. Why for example does a BBC Three / Channel 4 show rate under 1 million, viewers either expect it to be poor - or not for them, without even watching.
It's not about being lazy with imports, it's about picking the right imports which you build a schedule around. C4 can't do UK drama every night at 10pm, but with a couple of US dramas in the mix for many years they could offer drama 3-4 nights a week on a regular basis - and as drama as there at 10pm most nights, when new dramas launched it was in familiar slots. The days of "See 10. Think 4" are long gone - but it isn't something that's beyond repair.
And as we've discussed with Run it's not always the case they haven't got the content - it's just they are throwing it away in the schedules. I don't think Run would have lost half it's audience over the series had it aired weekly (though we'll never know, and it's not like quality = ratings) but for a series that has been six years in the making to be thrown away like that is ridiculous. As well as everything we've discussed about word of mouth, commitment etc. for a stripped series they also lose promo time. The series essentially had to be promoted as a whole and was pretty much built around Olivia Colman being in episode 1 - when really there was so much more to it than that. Also what's the point in 4seven when they don't repeat shows like this (other than midnight the same night). Neither C4 or 4seven are offering a quick repeat of it, yet every bit of tat they show gets repeated multiple times.
Hopefully as C4 seem unconcerned by ratings it might get a second series, and hopefully that'll be scheduled properly - but I'm not holding my breath.
Channel 5 has regular, solid rating programmes it can build around - the Australian soaps, Big Brother, CSI etc.
What does Channel 4 have in that regard? The Simpsons (peaked 15 years ago), Deal or No Deal (peaked 7 years ago), Hollyoaks (peaked about 10 years ago). It keeps commissioning derivitive makeover shows which lost their popularity years ago too. Of course it has 24 Hours in A&E (which is over commissioned), but really it's lost it's identity. Losing Big Brother looks a mistake now, but easy to say that with hindsight. And if they did carry on with it they'd be getting plenty of flack too. But, they need it.
Exactly, Channel 4 has a schedule of exhausted shows and you've left out another overkilled and ageing show, CDWM. None of these shows on the list get a million viewers, yet are hammered into the ground to diminishing returns. The one huge hit Channel 4 had after BB was cancelled, MBFGW, was ended prematurely and then they decided to dabble in ITV2 style reality like Desperate Scousewives, which bombed, and revived Shipwrecked yet again only to find it was a ratings shipwreck..
While I accept the civvy BB was well past its best on Channel 4, though has been revitalised on Channel 5, they should have kept CBB, which was good for 2.5 million a series.
Big Brother's latest eviction was watched by 1.56m on Channel 5 on Friday (July 19), according to overnight figures.
Jackie Travers's departure from the house was seen by 8.6% of the available audience. The ratings were up 80k on last week's 1.48 million (8.1%). A further 63k (0.4%) caught the show on +1.
Big Brother's Bit on the Side followed with 770k (5.86%) at 10.30pm (56k/0.7% on +1).
On BBC One, Nigel Slater's Dish of the Day appealed to 1.69m (10%) at 7.30pm. A repeat of Sherlock gathered 2.01m (11%) at 9pm.
On BBC Two, Celebrity Mastermind interested 1.09m (6.3%) at 8pm, after which Gardeners' World and Natural World grabbed 1.48m (8%) and 1.57m (8.5%) respectively.
On ITV, Ben Fogle's Harbour Lives was seen by 2.74m (15.9%) at 8pm, while a repeat of Doc Martin was once again the most-watched show outside of soaps and news with 2.96m (16.1%) at 9pm.
Channel 4's Four Rooms secured 580k (3.3%) at 8pm, followed by The Million Pound Drop Live with 1.15m (6.3%) at 9pm
Angelina Jolie movie Salt was the highest-rated offering on the multichannels, scoring 785k (4.5%) at 9pm on Film4.
The way C4 is going at the moment it is quite possible that in certain slots it could find itself being beaten by E4, Film4 and More4 if it's not careful.
Comments
In 2013 ought a network channel be reliant on imports in primetime?? Viewers don't give many new UK comedy shows a chance - myself included. Why for example does a BBC Three / Channel 4 show rate under 1 million, viewers either expect it to be poor - or not for them, without even watching.
Channel 4 has hit programmes, some rate 2.5m viewers easily, I don't watch the channel personally - but it can pull in viewers in primetime with the right format.
Channel 5 has regular, solid rating programmes it can build around - the Australian soaps, Big Brother, CSI etc.
What does Channel 4 have in that regard? The Simpsons (peaked 15 years ago), Deal or No Deal (peaked 7 years ago), Hollyoaks (peaked about 10 years ago). It keeps commissioning derivitive makeover shows which lost their popularity years ago too. Of course it has 24 Hours in A&E (which is over commissioned), but really it's lost it's identity. Losing Big Brother looks a mistake now, but easy to say that with hindsight. And if they did carry on with it they'd be getting plenty of flack too. But, they need it.
Bound to be some changes to the schedules at some point then, to air tributes, repeats of Not the Nine o'Clock News, Alas Smith and Jones etc.
I wonder if they'll repeat Colin's Sandwich, a lot of people say it was an under-rated classic series.
Anyway RIP. Fond memories throughout my Yoof.
Yes, a very funny man. Sixty is no age.
If you look at the special factual programmes, for the post-news slot that is very good in comparison with what a lot of the normal programming in that slot gets. I think a couple of the shows (My £9.50 Holiday and Wheelers, Dealers and Del Boys) could easily have rated over 3m if they had been put in the 8pm or 9pm slot.
Having watched a lot of Channel 4's new programmes this year for a project which will soon be revealed, I can definitely say that a lot of their new stuff is crap! It lacks imagination and creativity, and there is a lack of a sense of story in a lot of their factual output, with the exception of a couple of shows. The things that do well on C4 are one-off pieces, and a channel simply can't live like that.
Also, I think comparing Channel 4 with BBC Three, in the way that you have, says a lot about the current state of Channel 4.
Before they decided not to renew the Big Brother contract, they really should have had 2 or 3 shows that could replace it and deliver good audiences. In that regard, I blame the previous management (but the current management are making the previous ones look competent).
ITV are axing Dancing on Ice next year, and by trying things like Your Face Sounds Familiar, Just 1 Thing and their new celeb-Strictly type dancing show they are clearly looking for replacements that will deliver to just as big an audience as DOI. That is a very sensible move IMO and is an example of good channel management.
By the way, does anyone have C4's ratings at 8pm and 9pm for last night (Four Rooms and MPD)? Many thanks.
C5 has popped ahead before but as soon as Big Brother has finished it has slipped back down to a comfortable 5th place.
Agree about needing to prep replacements for Bif Brother. BB was a huge show for C4 and simply axing it and believing they could use the money saved to find new hit formats and shows and achieve the same figures as BB was short sighted and foolish to put it kindly
Used to love Colin's Sandwich.
All good stuff and the variety of programmes is good. I think once the soaps are over by 6.30, they provide a genuine alternative until 9.00 to the two main channels. BB seems to be holding up well for them with 1.5 million.
I can't say I blame them though as it's such a tough genre to get right. I'm sure I could count on one hand the number of scripted comedies I've liked in the past few years and I don't think I'm alone in that regard. Whilst the BBC should be commended for still being strong supporters albeit without facing the same ratings pressures as the commercial channels, too much of it leaves you wondering how on earth it got commissioned (like In with the Flynns). And as ITV has shown, even the ones with a lot of confidence behind them (like Vicious) can end up not hitting the spot for viewers. C4 are still doing some good stuff (Peep Show being the obvious example) but it's hardly working on a ratings level. Sky meanwhile haven't had a huge amount of joy here either despite a fair amount of investment (Spy, which received mostly excellent reviews, was cancelled after two series).
I'm not sure comedy is what people turn to C5 for anyway and it would probably just get lost. A panel show might work around BB but TV is hardly short on those at the moment. I think concentrating on strengthening their drama proposition with some compelling originals to complement their quality roster of imports from around the world is the way to go.
They'll probably repeat The Wolves of Willoughby Chase, in which Mel starred with Stephanie Beacham, who played Letitia Slighcarp, a sort of Victorian Sable.
He played Beacham's henchman.
And as we've discussed with Run it's not always the case they haven't got the content - it's just they are throwing it away in the schedules. I don't think Run would have lost half it's audience over the series had it aired weekly (though we'll never know, and it's not like quality = ratings) but for a series that has been six years in the making to be thrown away like that is ridiculous. As well as everything we've discussed about word of mouth, commitment etc. for a stripped series they also lose promo time. The series essentially had to be promoted as a whole and was pretty much built around Olivia Colman being in episode 1 - when really there was so much more to it than that. Also what's the point in 4seven when they don't repeat shows like this (other than midnight the same night). Neither C4 or 4seven are offering a quick repeat of it, yet every bit of tat they show gets repeated multiple times.
Hopefully as C4 seem unconcerned by ratings it might get a second series, and hopefully that'll be scheduled properly - but I'm not holding my breath.
Exactly, Channel 4 has a schedule of exhausted shows and you've left out another overkilled and ageing show, CDWM. None of these shows on the list get a million viewers, yet are hammered into the ground to diminishing returns. The one huge hit Channel 4 had after BB was cancelled, MBFGW, was ended prematurely and then they decided to dabble in ITV2 style reality like Desperate Scousewives, which bombed, and revived Shipwrecked yet again only to find it was a ratings shipwreck..
While I accept the civvy BB was well past its best on Channel 4, though has been revitalised on Channel 5, they should have kept CBB, which was good for 2.5 million a series.
Jackie Travers's departure from the house was seen by 8.6% of the available audience. The ratings were up 80k on last week's 1.48 million (8.1%). A further 63k (0.4%) caught the show on +1.
Big Brother's Bit on the Side followed with 770k (5.86%) at 10.30pm (56k/0.7% on +1).
On BBC One, Nigel Slater's Dish of the Day appealed to 1.69m (10%) at 7.30pm. A repeat of Sherlock gathered 2.01m (11%) at 9pm.
On BBC Two, Celebrity Mastermind interested 1.09m (6.3%) at 8pm, after which Gardeners' World and Natural World grabbed 1.48m (8%) and 1.57m (8.5%) respectively.
On ITV, Ben Fogle's Harbour Lives was seen by 2.74m (15.9%) at 8pm, while a repeat of Doc Martin was once again the most-watched show outside of soaps and news with 2.96m (16.1%) at 9pm.
Channel 4's Four Rooms secured 580k (3.3%) at 8pm, followed by The Million Pound Drop Live with 1.15m (6.3%) at 9pm
Angelina Jolie movie Salt was the highest-rated offering on the multichannels, scoring 785k (4.5%) at 9pm on Film4.
Never really payed attention to Film4's ratings... that seems solid, is it the norm, or at the high/low end of the ratings scale for their 9pm film?
Film4
w/e 7 Jul 2013
000's
1 FILM: BEVERLY HILLS COP II (1987) (THU 2103) 541
2 SKYLINE (WED 2101) 460
3 FILM: FAIR GAME (MON 2103) 449
4 SKYLINE (SUN 2102) 424
5 FILM: CROCODILE DUNDEE II (1988) (TUE 1854) 423
6 FILM: TERMINATOR SALVATION (2009) (SAT 2104) 403
7 FILM: A FIELD IN ENGLAND (2013) (FRI 2247) 350
8 FILM: THE HURT LOCKER (2008) (TUE 2103) 344
9 FILM: CHRONICLES OF NARNIA: THE VOYAGE (SUN 1850) 294
10 FILM: STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT (1996) (MON 1855) 279