I have zero intention of going to see Arsenal Vs Villa tomorrow but i would watch it (and pay) if i had the opportunity.
I seriously doubt Arsenal fans who go to games will not be at The Emirates and choose to watch it on the sofa.
And there is no way that Nottingham Forest fans, who go to games, will not be at the City ground tommorrow and instead choose to watch Arsenal Vs Villa.
Some fans simply cannot go to games, for many reasons. fiscal, logistical, family, illness etc so why deny them the opportunity of seeing a match?
I dont accept that gates will drop, that does a disservice to fans of lower league clubs. But lets say, if gates dropped by 5%, but would allow ten million people to watch the game they want.
For once, I pretty much completely agree with you!
I've often thought that there'll come a day where you can buy a TV season ticket, for your team.
I don't agree with the attendances argument. It's outdated and unnecessary, these days.
If every game was "live" on Sky or some other network, the subscriptions would be huge. No way would all games be shown live on free to air TV.
Although the Premier league games attendances would be relatively unaffected, I think there would be a huge fall off in attendances at lower league clubs/non league clubs.
I realise that there are ways and means of watching games live at 3pm on Saturday, but very few people can actually be bothered to do it and most people wouldn't want to watch a match in poor quality with commentary in Norwegian.
I realise that there are ways and means of watching games live at 3pm on Saturday, but very few people can actually be bothered to do it and most people wouldn't want to watch a match in poor quality with commentary in Norwegian.
You can do it quite easily in HD with full English commentary for a hell of a lot less than Sky costs.
If every game was "live" on Sky or some other network, the subscriptions would be huge. No way would all games be shown live on free to air TV.
Although the Premier league games attendances would be relatively unaffected, I think there would be a huge fall off in attendances at lower league clubs/non league clubs.
I realise that there are ways and means of watching games live at 3pm on Saturday, but very few people can actually be bothered to do it and most people wouldn't want to watch a match in poor quality with commentary in Norwegian.
The subscriptions wouldn't necessarily be huge if all games were ever offered to UK broadcasters - in fact it would devalue the product. Sky reckon that the average viewer only watches a fraction of the 116 games they show each season.
If all 380 were shown, they'd be split into packages as they are now - with no one broadcaster being allowed to own all of them in order to encourage bidding and ramp up the price but there would come a scenario where exclusivity would have to be lost so it would instantly devalue the product. If there were 6 3pm matches being shown at once, what if they were in varying packages meaning 2 or 3 broadcasters were showing them? It would instantly devalue them.
Sky, BT and the BBC currently pay in excess of £3 BILLION for 154 live matches because they're drip fed and are very cleverly packaged in order to offer exclusivity in slots to the broadcasters and this encourages interest because they sell subscriptions. That's gone up from just 60 live matches in 1992, and eventually sitting at its highest point of 154 now so any move toward 380 being offered is going at a snails pace! Personably I think we're years and years away from it still. The most I can ever see them going to is to offer a guaranteed 5 matches per weekend.
Re the last bit - very few people can be bothered to do it because it carries a myth that it's really complicated. Believe me, it's really not.
It's not the early/mid 90s where the local pub got a grainy feed from Norway - in Norwegian! These days all 380 matches are offered in perfect quality with an English world feed audio stream... Plenty of familiar faces on the punditry side of things too... Just like watching Sky but a lot cheaper!
Rubbish , no true fan would stop going to the ground to watch their team if it was on tv . i only watch my teams games and go to all home matches . if it is possible i go too some away days too but sometimes that's not possible . nothing beats going to see your team at the stadium , the atmosphere alone is worth the ticket price . so even if i could watch all games on tv , i would still go too the ground too support my team .. and those that would just watch on tv probably have never been to a live game anyway . i don't believe it would affect attendances that much at all . infact it is already possible to watch any match you want online for free with a little bit of searching so why hasn't that affected attendances ?
Don't forget as well that it's not the Premier League enforcing the blackout on themselves, it's the FA.
Notice how the rule doesn't just apply to the Premier League... It applies to every football match from every league... Everywhere! No live football on TV between 2.45pm - 5.15pm every Saturday.
Last season when they rearranged Barcelona-Madrid for the Saturday 3pm spot - it had to be shown in full later on that same night on Sky Sports because it couldn't be shown live. Same with the tea time La Liga kickoff... Notice how the coverage began at 5pm but they didn't cut into the live match until 5.15pm...
Hell, if you go and look back through the tweets from Richard Keys, he tells people how to do it so they can watch! There are certain products that will not be mentioned - they're illegal. But watching a foreign service from the confines of your own home is perfectly fine.
The stance would be very different if it was a pub though. But it's not.
Lol and those of who don't sky or virgin will not be watching the games anyway/.
I can't see how having all the games on TV will hinder people from attending matches when in fact it might do the opposite and encourage people to go.
Personally I think if terrestrial TV shared the rights of the lower leagues it might give some of the teams new supporters. Instead of buying the rights of the Bundersleague etc. Although we may not get every game it would also give those of us who don't have sky or virgin to watch a football match.
Hell, if you go and look back through the tweets from Richard Keys, he tells people how to do it so they can watch! There are certain products that will not be mentioned - they're illegal. But watching a foreign service from the confines of your own home is perfectly fine.
The stance would be very different if it was a pub though. But it's not.
Can you please give me some more information, or link me to somewhere i can read about it in more depth. I know a couple of people who have what's essentially Greek Sky, they pay a one-off fee for a box and get a card each month, but i was under the impression it was very much illegal. Keys is quite a prolific tweeter, can't find owt on there.
Can you please give me some more information, or link me to somewhere i can read about it in more depth. I know a couple of people who have what's essentially Greek Sky, they pay a one-off fee for a box and get a card each month, but i was under the impression it was very much illegal. Keys is quite a prolific tweeter, can't find owt on there.
Its completely legal to subscribe to Al Jazeera Sports which comes with English commentary and punditry - but you would need to install a new satellite dish.
Can you please give me some more information, or link me to somewhere i can read about it in more depth. I know a couple of people who have what's essentially Greek Sky, they pay a one-off fee for a box and get a card each month, but i was under the impression it was very much illegal. Keys is quite a prolific tweeter, can't find owt on there.
This is all online. Its essentially no different to accessing the US Netflix which the vast majority of Netflix subscribers who are a bit computer savvy tend to do.
I can't see how having all the games on TV will hinder people from attending matches when in fact it might do the opposite and encourage people to go.
Whether it'd affect attendances or not, we don't know because it's never been tested. However... If the lower leagues had access to some parachute payments every once in a while then they wouldn't be so concerned about losing any gate receipts on match day. They'll continue to sit in poverty though, while the top tier clubs roll in it! Sad but true.
Its completely legal to subscribe to Al Jazeera Sports which comes with English commentary and punditry - but you would need to install a new satellite dish.
You dont need a dish at all. You can do it online.
Its completely legal to subscribe to Al Jazeera Sports which comes with English commentary and punditry - but you would need to install a new satellite dish.
It's impossible to get AJ on satellite from the UK now since they won the Premier League rights they had to move the channels to a different satellite that can't be picked up in the UK
I already watch some games online via Wiziwig (formerly myp2p.eu). The quality of the streams varies, though.
I used to use Live Online Footy, in its various guises, but it was repeatedly shut down.
I know of the Greek Sky thing, as above, which the internet says is technically legal.
If there is a legal way of watching quality streams online then i wouldn't mind knowing about it. Is it simply a case of using a DNS/location blocker and subscribing through overseas websites, if so which?
Whether it'd affect attendances or not, we don't know because it's never been tested. However... If the lower leagues had access to some parachute payments every once in a while then they wouldn't be so concerned about losing any gate receipts on match day. They'll continue to sit in poverty though, while the top tier clubs roll in it! Sad but true.
I agree that's why I suggested more lower league games should be on terrestial TV. A lot of public don't get to see football matches and I think this would boost lower league viewing figures, more money will go to them due to TV rights and may increase attending figures.
At the moment the viewing figures for athletics has increased partly due to the Olympics yes but it's also one of the few sports you can watch on BBC. I believe attending figures have also increased.
If lower leagues got a really good marketing campaign then anything is possible.
I already watch some games online via Wiziwig (formerly myp2p.eu). The quality of the streams varies, though.
.
Be interesting to see how the streams fare over this opening weekend as no doubt Sky and the PL have spent all summer investing in new ways to disrupt them
Be interesting to see how the streams fare over this opening weekend as no doubt Sky and the PL have spent all summer investing in new ways to disrupt them
For the dodgy streams, for every one that gets shut down, another 10 will pop up. The only physical way for the PL to stop it happening is to stop selling 380 match packages to foreign broadcasters... and that's not going to happen.
Be interesting to see how the streams fare over this opening weekend as no doubt Sky and the PL have spent all summer investing in new ways to disrupt them
Its like trying to block Pirate Bay and other torrents sites. Proxies spring up before the original address is banned. In a lot of cases the illegal streams arent a hugely enjoyable viewing experience though.
England regularly has a full Tuesday-Wednesday fixture list Premier league down to Non League, yet it's ok then to show live Premier League match on TV on both nights, but not at 3pm on a Saturday.
People who want to watch 3pm match on Saturdays on TV already do so, plenty of pubs, internet streams that already show 3pm kick offs
England regularly has a full Tuesday-Wednesday fixture list Premier league down to Non League, yet it's ok then to show live Premier League match on TV on both nights, but not at 3pm on a Saturday.
People who want to watch 3pm match on Saturdays on TV already do so, plenty of pubs, internet streams that already show 3pm kick offs
The PL blame a UEFA rule for not being able to broadcast games during 3-5pm, yet German and Spanish games manage to be broadcast in their home countries during these times
Pick TV on Freeview are showing 3 live PL games this weekend, the games involving Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea, they are also showing Leeds v Sheffield Wednesday live in the Championship as part of a Sky free pass weekend.
They're only showing one PL game, the Swansea/Man Utd game.
The PL blame a UEFA rule for not being able to broadcast games during 3-5pm, yet German and Spanish games manage to be broadcast in their home countries during these times
It's not a UEFA rule as such - they just make sure it's adhered to! Every domestic FA can submit a list of 'blocked broadcasting hours' to UEFA before the start of each season if they choose to. It's entirely up to each FA.
The Spanish and German FA's choose not to submit any blocked broadcasting hours. The only FA's in Europe that chose to have a TV blackout this season are: Austria, England, Macedonia, Montenegro, Northern Ireland & Scotland. Everybody else chose not to bother so they can all show football at any time they choose.
I think having a 3pm Saturday choice via the red button is the natural progression of the current TV deals.
There will come a point where the money will reach such a point as to make that possible.
Or, 3pm kick-offs are abolished altogether in favour of KO times that would attract bigger TV audiences. I hope it doesn't happen, but they've already done that with the FA Cup final, so I wouldn't rule it out in the Premier League.
Comments
For once, I pretty much completely agree with you!
I've often thought that there'll come a day where you can buy a TV season ticket, for your team.
I don't agree with the attendances argument. It's outdated and unnecessary, these days.
Although the Premier league games attendances would be relatively unaffected, I think there would be a huge fall off in attendances at lower league clubs/non league clubs.
I realise that there are ways and means of watching games live at 3pm on Saturday, but very few people can actually be bothered to do it and most people wouldn't want to watch a match in poor quality with commentary in Norwegian.
You can do it quite easily in HD with full English commentary for a hell of a lot less than Sky costs.
The subscriptions wouldn't necessarily be huge if all games were ever offered to UK broadcasters - in fact it would devalue the product. Sky reckon that the average viewer only watches a fraction of the 116 games they show each season.
If all 380 were shown, they'd be split into packages as they are now - with no one broadcaster being allowed to own all of them in order to encourage bidding and ramp up the price but there would come a scenario where exclusivity would have to be lost so it would instantly devalue the product. If there were 6 3pm matches being shown at once, what if they were in varying packages meaning 2 or 3 broadcasters were showing them? It would instantly devalue them.
Sky, BT and the BBC currently pay in excess of £3 BILLION for 154 live matches because they're drip fed and are very cleverly packaged in order to offer exclusivity in slots to the broadcasters and this encourages interest because they sell subscriptions. That's gone up from just 60 live matches in 1992, and eventually sitting at its highest point of 154 now so any move toward 380 being offered is going at a snails pace! Personably I think we're years and years away from it still. The most I can ever see them going to is to offer a guaranteed 5 matches per weekend.
Re the last bit - very few people can be bothered to do it because it carries a myth that it's really complicated. Believe me, it's really not.
It's not the early/mid 90s where the local pub got a grainy feed from Norway - in Norwegian! These days all 380 matches are offered in perfect quality with an English world feed audio stream... Plenty of familiar faces on the punditry side of things too... Just like watching Sky but a lot cheaper!
Notice how the rule doesn't just apply to the Premier League... It applies to every football match from every league... Everywhere! No live football on TV between 2.45pm - 5.15pm every Saturday.
Last season when they rearranged Barcelona-Madrid for the Saturday 3pm spot - it had to be shown in full later on that same night on Sky Sports because it couldn't be shown live. Same with the tea time La Liga kickoff... Notice how the coverage began at 5pm but they didn't cut into the live match until 5.15pm...
I wouldn't go declaring that sort of thing, mate!
Why not? It's not illegal.
Hell, if you go and look back through the tweets from Richard Keys, he tells people how to do it so they can watch! There are certain products that will not be mentioned - they're illegal. But watching a foreign service from the confines of your own home is perfectly fine.
The stance would be very different if it was a pub though. But it's not.
I can't see how having all the games on TV will hinder people from attending matches when in fact it might do the opposite and encourage people to go.
Personally I think if terrestrial TV shared the rights of the lower leagues it might give some of the teams new supporters. Instead of buying the rights of the Bundersleague etc. Although we may not get every game it would also give those of us who don't have sky or virgin to watch a football match.
Can you please give me some more information, or link me to somewhere i can read about it in more depth. I know a couple of people who have what's essentially Greek Sky, they pay a one-off fee for a box and get a card each month, but i was under the impression it was very much illegal. Keys is quite a prolific tweeter, can't find owt on there.
Its completely legal to subscribe to Al Jazeera Sports which comes with English commentary and punditry - but you would need to install a new satellite dish.
This is all online. Its essentially no different to accessing the US Netflix which the vast majority of Netflix subscribers who are a bit computer savvy tend to do.
Whether it'd affect attendances or not, we don't know because it's never been tested. However... If the lower leagues had access to some parachute payments every once in a while then they wouldn't be so concerned about losing any gate receipts on match day. They'll continue to sit in poverty though, while the top tier clubs roll in it! Sad but true.
You dont need a dish at all. You can do it online.
It's impossible to get AJ on satellite from the UK now since they won the Premier League rights they had to move the channels to a different satellite that can't be picked up in the UK
I used to use Live Online Footy, in its various guises, but it was repeatedly shut down.
I know of the Greek Sky thing, as above, which the internet says is technically legal.
If there is a legal way of watching quality streams online then i wouldn't mind knowing about it. Is it simply a case of using a DNS/location blocker and subscribing through overseas websites, if so which?
Reply or PM appreciated.
I agree that's why I suggested more lower league games should be on terrestial TV. A lot of public don't get to see football matches and I think this would boost lower league viewing figures, more money will go to them due to TV rights and may increase attending figures.
At the moment the viewing figures for athletics has increased partly due to the Olympics yes but it's also one of the few sports you can watch on BBC. I believe attending figures have also increased.
If lower leagues got a really good marketing campaign then anything is possible.
Be interesting to see how the streams fare over this opening weekend as no doubt Sky and the PL have spent all summer investing in new ways to disrupt them
For the dodgy streams, for every one that gets shut down, another 10 will pop up. The only physical way for the PL to stop it happening is to stop selling 380 match packages to foreign broadcasters... and that's not going to happen.
Its like trying to block Pirate Bay and other torrents sites. Proxies spring up before the original address is banned. In a lot of cases the illegal streams arent a hugely enjoyable viewing experience though.
People who want to watch 3pm match on Saturdays on TV already do so, plenty of pubs, internet streams that already show 3pm kick offs
The PL blame a UEFA rule for not being able to broadcast games during 3-5pm, yet German and Spanish games manage to be broadcast in their home countries during these times
They're only showing one PL game, the Swansea/Man Utd game.
It's not a UEFA rule as such - they just make sure it's adhered to! Every domestic FA can submit a list of 'blocked broadcasting hours' to UEFA before the start of each season if they choose to. It's entirely up to each FA.
The Spanish and German FA's choose not to submit any blocked broadcasting hours. The only FA's in Europe that chose to have a TV blackout this season are: Austria, England, Macedonia, Montenegro, Northern Ireland & Scotland. Everybody else chose not to bother so they can all show football at any time they choose.
Or, 3pm kick-offs are abolished altogether in favour of KO times that would attract bigger TV audiences. I hope it doesn't happen, but they've already done that with the FA Cup final, so I wouldn't rule it out in the Premier League.