After finding that article last week about Ian McNeice, I've been thinking about the character of Bert and the function he fulfills on the show. Some questions: 1) Do you think Bert has grown or progressed from S1 to S5? 2) How important is he to the Doc? 3) How important to Louisa? 4) Is Bert more of a help or hindrance to Al? 5) Overall, is Bert to be laughed at, admired, or pitied?
1) Not really, the same scheming fellow. I really hated it when he tried to trick money from Al when he was in charge of the Chippie. Besides, even Louisa's Dad knew that Bert doesn't shy away from doing everything for money.
2) He provided more interruptions in DM's relationship to LG than anyone else, so without Bert they might have been able to talk at some point during the five series.
3) I guess he's a friendly face from her childhood and is also part of the village which makes her feel at home. Professionally I don't think her regard for him is not very high, judging her response to the news in S5E8 that BL would be in charge of the canteen.
4) Strangely enough, he had made a good job of bringing up Al, but he can't let go. So I guess Al would have lead a different life if he wouldn't feel responsible for Bert. At least he wouldn't have had to steal.
5) I guess in villages like that it's not really an issue, as he is Bert, part of the village, and just the way he is and always was.
Now, what about the christening?? I haven't heard a whisper of that now that S6 is finished filming; after all, there where several scenes in S5 discussing plans, etc.
I am thinking that we may not see the christening. It was supposed to happen within two weeks of the Castle scene (as I remember) and we know from the press pack that the proposal takes place sometime in the interim between S5 and S6, and they must have taken at least a few weeks to plan for that wedding.
The press pack also suggested, I think, that Martin did the proposing -- hence deciding one of the items we "voted" on. And I was dead wrong -- I thought it would be Louisa.
Late to respond and I haven't read the rest of the discussion yet, so please bear with me if I repeat something that has already been said.
We all talk about all the time that we like to see his armour getting pierced, his wall, that he built around him being torn down. FanFic is full of that.
Now MC talks about a possible "breakdown" and everyone seems to be on high alert.
I think it would be naturally for DM to have a bit of a crisis.
Everything he worked for, what he assumed he wanted from life, falls to pieces. His career, his standing, his urban world, his self control and self-sufficiency, his detachment from people and emotions. Everthing that was defining him is questioned, put to test and eventually turned upside down.
In his fifties (or shall we assume DM is still in his late forties?) he is forced to re-invent himself completely. New job perspective, new family situation, permanently new environment.
What's more, he put the pressure on himself in asking for "one last chance" at the castle. So LG would have any right to give up on him completely if he messes it up this time. I guess he is aware of it being his last chance and is afraid that everything he invested - which is basically everything he had ever got or was - could be lost by one stupid move from him. He also knows he's a master in putting his foot in.
So I think it would be super-human to expect him to be happy-go-lucky, overwhelmed with joy by his lovey-dovey existence.
It would be quite natural for him to experience this transition period as pure stress and we know from his blood phobia that he can react quite sensitively in experience actual physical symptoms when under pressure.
I just hope Louisa is more co-operative in S6 to pick him up and to support him, making him realise that his efforts are worth while.
II agree, BodminDM. In fact, my wonder is that he didn't fall apart earlier. He seemed to hold it together better than Louisa in S5, but perhaps he was still somewhat "in shock" at the direction his life was taking. I think we know from the press pack that while Louisa may try to help and support him, he won't let her do that and she feels very frustrated --like she's hitting a brick wall.
"A bedside manner is a concept that is completely alien to Doctor Ellingham." "He's patronizing, abrasive, and completely disemphathetic." Looks like we have another great couple of lines from Doc Martin! :cool:
But I have to agree with Louisa - very well written for a ten-year-old:p
Hello! I've been thinking about the song. I wonder if one of the themes in this upcoming season in DM is that DM loses his outer layer of grumpiness, of bad bedside manner, and has to open up to being a much more pleasant fellow and nicer to patients and PW villagers. We see in the trailer right away DM is being called for his terrible personality by even ten year olds, and that in the middle he has a breakdown of sorts, and then at the end there is a good moment between him and LG, perhaps indicating he really does soften and they truly are closer. I mean, I know the shots are not in order, per se, of appearance, but that this could be a theme of the season and edited in a way to give us an idea of how the season may go.
This spoiler is more on analyzing the song/trailer and trying to understand how it might represent the upcoming season. It's no doubt complete imaginative hogwash but it amuses me to wonder.
IF YOU COMMENT ON THIS SPOILER please write "mmDerdekea, about your comment" so I will read it. I am not reading other spoilers. Thank you!
I certainly hope you are wrong, as I do like the Doc the way he is. I don't want him to be all smarmy and nice to the villagers and sociable. TV is full of those heros.
I like my Doc rough around the edges, as long as he has some nice moments with LG and JH. Again, not all a bed of roses, but enough to carry a relationship.
I'm sorry, but the Doc really does look sad when he's standing in the church. When he sees Louisa (we assume), he briefly takes her all in with his eyes, then he stands up a little straighter. This is all so subtle, barely perceptible - due to the genius of Martin Clunes acting.
As some other already said, I don't see it as sad either. I also think he is just panicking due to the enormous change in his life, knowing that this is his last chance with Louisa, as he himself put it at the castle.
I also think that his doubts seeded by Mr Porter about making Louisa happy are still there.
But I don't really think he's sad.
I just re-watched S2E8. I don't know if we ever mentioned it before on this forum, but I noticed one little thing.
When Julie is lying on the bed, confronted by Mark about her multiple personalities, she declared she wanted to find the "real me". Mark responds with "Whoever that may be" (or something to that effect).
Later in that episode we have Louisa making Martin drunk to see a glimpse of the "real you".
Did we ever had any talk about the "real someone" in any episode?
Is it significant that we do have it twice in this one?
Maybe CC needs to stay focused between takes while he can get in and out of the part more easily and maybe even needs to get away from DM between takes.
New article with two between-takes photos. In one, CC has her hands in that same way, clasped and up near her chin. She also has her arms in one of those big green coats. Since in another interview, MC said the place was freezing cold, I figure in both photos, she's got her hands like that just trying to stay warm. That's what someone here already speculated too (apologies -- can't find that post).
Here's the link. Spoiler warning, but I bet there isn't a one of us who hasn't seen the press pack and trailer and E1 synopsis, so go for it.
Again, if you read the press pack or E1 synopsis, or watched the trailer, this is a pretty commonly known spoiler now, but a spoiler nevertheless. It's a photo. Look at the Doc's face.
Wow, new article out with even more spoilers from MC: 1) This won't be the last series, and 2) His mom returns to PW and he learns she forgot to invite him to his dad's funeral. Then more damage control on some of the negative press this past year.
Wow, new article out with even more spoilers from MC: 1) This won't be the last series, and 2) His mom returns to PW and he learns she forgot to invite him to his dad's funeral. Then more damage control on some of the negative press this past year.
It's actually a pretty good article, spoilers aside. He does repeat the canard about how American medical shows just make stuff up (I wish someone would disabuse him of this, but he clearly doesn't like House, etc.). But as he tells it now, the incident at the ER makes a little more sense -- the surgeon now seems to have diagnosed appendicitis and NOT a gall bladder problem. I still think, BTW, that he did relay something of that incident in the interview, b/c while Reader's Digest clearly embellished his telling of it, they didn't make it up out of whole cloth.
Here's another interview (first spotted by Leannethemouse)
Here's an interesting (non-spoiler) quote from it:
"Odd to say for such an enduring series but it feels like ‘Doc Martin’ still struggles with its tone – at times it seems to aim for sitcom chuckles, at others a degree of dramatic heft. Still, Clunes is likeably lugubrious and it makes a pleasant change to see a primetime ITV drama that doesn’t seem too desperate to please everyone."
Wow, new article out with even more spoilers from MC: 1) This won't be the last series, and 2) His mom returns to PW and he learns she forgot to invite him to his dad's funeral. Then more damage control on some of the negative press this past year.
The part of this article that points out the parallels with MC's own life (his father died estranged from his family) is rather unsettling, to me anyway. I think he has said that he "comes late" to the story-crafting process, but still.... and the way MC apparently chose to deal with this issue is to become a devoted family man himself. It is a terrible loss for a person when a parent dies -- even when they are estranged -- b/c now it is no longer possible to repair that relationship or win that parent's love and approval (among other things). It will be very interesting to see what direction his help from AR takes.
NewPark says, [/QUOTE]here's an interesting (non-spoiler) quote from it: "Odd to say for such an enduring series but it feels like ‘Doc Martin’ still struggles with its tone – at times it seems to aim for sitcom chuckles, at others a degree of dramatic heft. Still, Clunes is likeably lugubrious and it makes a pleasant change to see a primetime ITV drama that doesn’t seem too desperate to please everyone." What do others think about that comment?[/QUOTE]
I think this is a fair analysis, because many of us inside and outside this forum have talked about the story lines, the use of crazy locals, the caricaturization of the Doc, the writers' search for his humanity, the unevenness of the characters (including taking many of them - the Doc, Louisa, AJ - in an increasingly negative direction). Beneath all this is the question of what this show is all about. Is it about a medical detective, a high-functioning Aspergers success story, a man searching to be a fully-realized person, a frustrating romance, a debate about whether people can and should change or ??? Good or bad, Dominic Minghella's original conception of the show has shifted. And it sounds like after S5 they were frantically searching for something different and new that would allow them to make a compelling S6. That's why MC kept talking about pulling the plug. When the creators and writers and directors and actors, who contributed so mightily to DM's success, could not see a road to fresh, creative fodder - they moved on. Ultimately this show - from inception to present - has been the product of its canny producers. Was and is this a struggle between consistency/predictability and inconsistency/freshness?
Here's an interesting (non-spoiler) quote from it:
"Odd to say for such an enduring series but it feels like ‘Doc Martin’ still struggles with its tone – at times it seems to aim for sitcom chuckles, at others a degree of dramatic heft. Still, Clunes is likeably lugubrious and it makes a pleasant change to see a primetime ITV drama that doesn’t seem too desperate to please everyone."
What do others think about that comment?
He's contradicting himself. It is a dramedy after all.
Spoilers regarding the one I started--answer to BodminDM:
Oh, I complete agree BodminDM! If they think the next step is for DM to become nice and have great bedside manner, they've lost the entire character many of us are attracted to. Or for him to have a breakdown because he is not nice; even worse! He's won over LG being who he is, and frankly, who cares what the rest of the village thinks of him? They need to respect him, not like him.
But, notice the promo article said DM is making medical mistakes, etc. I hope they don't take things too far.
Here's another interview (first spotted by Leannethemouse)
Beneath all this is the question of what this show is all about. Is it about a medical detective, a high-functioning Aspergers success story, a man searching to be a fully-realized person, a frustrating romance, a debate about whether people can and should change or ???
That's a super good concise question about all the different stages the show has danced upon, Statesidefan. One wonders which one of them MC/PB, etc choose to call their guiding star, if they have one singular view as a show concept.
To be honest, I'm not sure they do. That's not good or bad, but it does explain some of the uneven aspects of the shows and the apparent seasonal themes.
What is interesting about the article is that Martin Clunes still is not getting correct PR representation after the "Reader's Digest" matter. Not only does he go after the "House" TV show, he also stupidly states that the women in the Iranian version of Doc Martin won't be able to speak. Since he presumably is making money from the Iranian's use of the Doc Martin character, it would seem some PR person should have told him that about 75 percent of the physicians in Iran are women, and the Iranian Doc Martin is statistically more likely to be a woman than a man. His comments about America and now Iran are bordering on xenophobia. He really needs some PR help.
But as he tells it now, the incident at the ER makes a little more sense -- the surgeon now seems to have diagnosed appendicitis and NOT a gall bladder problem.
Well, I would hate to think NHS doctors cannot accurately differentially diagnose appendicitis from cholecystitis. That's a worse thought than misinterpreting MC called off the surgery!
Calling off an appendectomy when a patient has appendicitis is idiocy. Calling off removal of the gallbladder (and let's throw in the appendix while we're at it) due to gallstones causing a temporary cholecystitis is, on the other hand, reasonable.
That's a super good concise question about all the different stages the show has danced upon, Statesidefan. One wonders which one of them MC/PB, etc choose to call their guiding star, if they have one singular view as a show concept.
To be honest, I'm not sure they do. That's not good or bad, but it does explain some of the uneven aspects of the shows and the apparent seasonal themes.
Well, I would hate to think NHS doctors cannot accurately differentially diagnose appendicitis from cholecystitis. That's a worse thought than misinterpreting MC called off the surgery!
Calling off an appendectomy when a patient has appendicitis is idiocy. Calling off removal of the gallbladder (and let's throw in the appendix while we're at it) due to gallstones causing a temporary cholecystitis is, on the other hand, reasonable.
Now that you mention it, it does seem idiotic to leave the ER if appendicitis is a possible diagnosis, particularly if you decide you know better than the attending physician. I wonder what on earth really happened? The story is getting so garbled on re-telling that there is no way to tell (short of reading the hospital chart). I still think some version of this happened, but will give it a rest now.
It's actually a pretty good article, spoilers aside. He does repeat the canard about how American medical shows just make stuff up (I wish someone would disabuse him of this, but he clearly doesn't like House, etc.).
Someone should send him this-Grey's Anatomy Medical Case File. They even provide links so you can find out more information on the medical cases used in episodes. Then ask him if he thinks the medical advisers on that show-Stanford graduate and board certified surgeon Dr. Karen Lisa Pike is a 'real doctor' or if 20 year veteran ER/surgical nurse Linda Klein is a 'real nurse'.
What is interesting about the article is that Martin Clunes still is not getting correct PR representation after the "Reader's Digest" matter. Not only does he go after the "House" TV show, he also stupidly states that the women in the Iranian version of Doc Martin won't be able to speak. Since he presumably is making money from the Iranian's use of the Doc Martin character, it would seem some PR person should have told him that about 75 percent of the physicians in Iran are women, and the Iranian Doc Martin is statistically more likely to be a woman than a man. His comments about America and now Iran are bordering on xenophobia. He really needs some PR help.
Cut him some slack - he can't be knowledgeable about every thing.
It's actually a pretty good article, spoilers aside. He does repeat the canard about how American medical shows just make stuff up (I wish someone would disabuse him of this, but he clearly doesn't like House, etc.).
When I first read the quote about the American medical shows it sounded a bit harsh, but then I remembered that sometimes MC's joking doesn't come out well in writing. But this new article gives another clue that he is joking when he says the Americans take out all the blood and replace it with antifreeze.
I think it is just a matter of not everyone (mostly the interviewers) understanding his sense of humor.
Comments
1) Not really, the same scheming fellow. I really hated it when he tried to trick money from Al when he was in charge of the Chippie. Besides, even Louisa's Dad knew that Bert doesn't shy away from doing everything for money.
2) He provided more interruptions in DM's relationship to LG than anyone else, so without Bert they might have been able to talk at some point during the five series.
3) I guess he's a friendly face from her childhood and is also part of the village which makes her feel at home. Professionally I don't think her regard for him is not very high, judging her response to the news in S5E8 that BL would be in charge of the canteen.
4) Strangely enough, he had made a good job of bringing up Al, but he can't let go. So I guess Al would have lead a different life if he wouldn't feel responsible for Bert. At least he wouldn't have had to steal.
5) I guess in villages like that it's not really an issue, as he is Bert, part of the village, and just the way he is and always was.
The press pack also suggested, I think, that Martin did the proposing -- hence deciding one of the items we "voted" on. And I was dead wrong -- I thought it would be Louisa.
I like my Doc rough around the edges, as long as he has some nice moments with LG and JH. Again, not all a bed of roses, but enough to carry a relationship.
I also think that his doubts seeded by Mr Porter about making Louisa happy are still there.
But I don't really think he's sad.
When Julie is lying on the bed, confronted by Mark about her multiple personalities, she declared she wanted to find the "real me". Mark responds with "Whoever that may be" (or something to that effect).
Later in that episode we have Louisa making Martin drunk to see a glimpse of the "real you".
Did we ever had any talk about the "real someone" in any episode?
Is it significant that we do have it twice in this one?
New article with two between-takes photos. In one, CC has her hands in that same way, clasped and up near her chin. She also has her arms in one of those big green coats. Since in another interview, MC said the place was freezing cold, I figure in both photos, she's got her hands like that just trying to stay warm. That's what someone here already speculated too (apologies -- can't find that post).
Here's the link. Spoiler warning, but I bet there isn't a one of us who hasn't seen the press pack and trailer and E1 synopsis, so go for it.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/424442/Laughter-is-the-best-medicine-as-Doc-Martin-finally-marries
Two very, very nice photos.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151816541356826&set=gm.545010522215457&type=1&theater
Again, if you read the press pack or E1 synopsis, or watched the trailer, this is a pretty commonly known spoiler now, but a spoiler nevertheless. It's a photo. Look at the Doc's face.
It's actually a pretty good article, spoilers aside. He does repeat the canard about how American medical shows just make stuff up (I wish someone would disabuse him of this, but he clearly doesn't like House, etc.). But as he tells it now, the incident at the ER makes a little more sense -- the surgeon now seems to have diagnosed appendicitis and NOT a gall bladder problem. I still think, BTW, that he did relay something of that incident in the interview, b/c while Reader's Digest clearly embellished his telling of it, they didn't make it up out of whole cloth.
Here's another interview (first spotted by Leannethemouse)
Here's an interesting (non-spoiler) quote from it:
"Odd to say for such an enduring series but it feels like ‘Doc Martin’ still struggles with its tone – at times it seems to aim for sitcom chuckles, at others a degree of dramatic heft. Still, Clunes is likeably lugubrious and it makes a pleasant change to see a primetime ITV drama that doesn’t seem too desperate to please everyone."
What do others think about that comment?
NewPark says, [/QUOTE]here's an interesting (non-spoiler) quote from it: "Odd to say for such an enduring series but it feels like ‘Doc Martin’ still struggles with its tone – at times it seems to aim for sitcom chuckles, at others a degree of dramatic heft. Still, Clunes is likeably lugubrious and it makes a pleasant change to see a primetime ITV drama that doesn’t seem too desperate to please everyone." What do others think about that comment?[/QUOTE]
I think this is a fair analysis, because many of us inside and outside this forum have talked about the story lines, the use of crazy locals, the caricaturization of the Doc, the writers' search for his humanity, the unevenness of the characters (including taking many of them - the Doc, Louisa, AJ - in an increasingly negative direction). Beneath all this is the question of what this show is all about. Is it about a medical detective, a high-functioning Aspergers success story, a man searching to be a fully-realized person, a frustrating romance, a debate about whether people can and should change or ??? Good or bad, Dominic Minghella's original conception of the show has shifted. And it sounds like after S5 they were frantically searching for something different and new that would allow them to make a compelling S6. That's why MC kept talking about pulling the plug. When the creators and writers and directors and actors, who contributed so mightily to DM's success, could not see a road to fresh, creative fodder - they moved on. Ultimately this show - from inception to present - has been the product of its canny producers. Was and is this a struggle between consistency/predictability and inconsistency/freshness?
He's contradicting himself. It is a dramedy after all.
But, notice the promo article said DM is making medical mistakes, etc. I hope they don't take things too far.
That's a super good concise question about all the different stages the show has danced upon, Statesidefan. One wonders which one of them MC/PB, etc choose to call their guiding star, if they have one singular view as a show concept.
To be honest, I'm not sure they do. That's not good or bad, but it does explain some of the uneven aspects of the shows and the apparent seasonal themes.
Well, I would hate to think NHS doctors cannot accurately differentially diagnose appendicitis from cholecystitis. That's a worse thought than misinterpreting MC called off the surgery!
Calling off an appendectomy when a patient has appendicitis is idiocy. Calling off removal of the gallbladder (and let's throw in the appendix while we're at it) due to gallstones causing a temporary cholecystitis is, on the other hand, reasonable.
I agree with this, Mona.
Now that you mention it, it does seem idiotic to leave the ER if appendicitis is a possible diagnosis, particularly if you decide you know better than the attending physician. I wonder what on earth really happened? The story is getting so garbled on re-telling that there is no way to tell (short of reading the hospital chart). I still think some version of this happened, but will give it a rest now.
Someone should send him this-Grey's Anatomy Medical Case File. They even provide links so you can find out more information on the medical cases used in episodes. Then ask him if he thinks the medical advisers on that show-Stanford graduate and board certified surgeon Dr. Karen Lisa Pike is a 'real doctor' or if 20 year veteran ER/surgical nurse Linda Klein is a 'real nurse'.
As far as 'House' goes (a program that I've never seen) they freely admit they 'tart' things up and half of the time the producers of that show don't listen to what their medical advisers tell them. I found this article in one web search on the first page of that search, there were others but the article I cite sums up the rest nicely and the comments associated with it are interesting. Search engines are wonderful things, Mr. Clunes, perhaps you should try one sometime.
Cut him some slack - he can't be knowledgeable about every thing.
When I first read the quote about the American medical shows it sounded a bit harsh, but then I remembered that sometimes MC's joking doesn't come out well in writing. But this new article gives another clue that he is joking when he says the Americans take out all the blood and replace it with antifreeze.
I think it is just a matter of not everyone (mostly the interviewers) understanding his sense of humor.
Wonder if it was anyone who reads or contributes here or in one of the FB forums? :rolleyes:
Interesting that they know she comes from Texas.:)