So we should be able to freely go about offending anyone we want with no consequence?
I think it should be a crime.
What is offence though? What is it "to be offended" ? If it is as I said above, merely that strange feeling which is somewhere between indignation and embarrassment, then why is that such an affront as to be worthy of sending the person who has caused it to prison?
I have to disagree with you, it's a lot of money to be wasting sending someone to prison for putting bacon on a door handle, Infact it's absurd.
Give him a fine or whatever but a prison sentence for bacon on a door handle is just ridiculous
It's just a load of crap.
I've seen times where a bloke was jailed for kicking a cat up the arse and on the same day a fella who assaulted an elderly man who was also a cancer sufferer and beat him almost to death walked free.
It's a dangerous path we are on when we can be jailed for "offending" people. It also seems to always be one-way too. The muslim protests I have seen look extremely offensive but nothing is done.
Prisons should mainly be for violent criminals and paedophiles, with the latter having the key thrown away.
I've seen times where a bloke was jailed for kicking a cat up the arse and on the same day a fella who assaulted an elderly man who was also a cancer sufferer and beat him almost to death walked free.
It's a dangerous path we are on when we can be jailed for "offending" people. It also seems to always be one-way too. The muslim protests I have seen look extremely offensive but nothing is done.
Prisons should mainly be for violent crimes and paedophiles, with the latter having the key thrown away.
It's a dangerous path we are on when we can be jailed for "offending" people.
Quoted for truth. It's outrageous. Although, I would muster that most of the muslims at that particular mosque would have settled for an apology. It's the dunderheaded magistrate in this matter who has decided to be offended on the behalf of muslims everywhere, the idiot.
In which case that is different, you would prefer to make all crimes of harressment carry the same punishment, which I see no problem with.
Yes, we appear to pretty much agree on that. I still think there would be "degrees" of harassment, and the single "bacon on the door" event would be towards the lower end of the scale. Unless it was a case of persistent harassment, the 10 month sentence still seems excessive ?
Quoted for truth. It's outrageous. Although, I would muster that most of the muslims at that particular mosque would have settled for an apology. It's the dunderheaded magistrate in this matter who has decided to be offended on the behalf of muslims everywhere, the idiot.
I think you're right. Liberals are extremely keen on being offended on the behalf of muslims or black people or any other "minority".
I wonder how many people from minority groups for example are so sensitive that they need a new groovy word devised for referring to them every few months.
Liberals are creating and perpetuating resentment and division in society with this behaviour. What is their aim in doing this!?
I've seen times where a bloke was jailed for kicking a cat up the arse and on the same day a fella who assaulted an elderly man who was also a cancer sufferer and beat him almost to death walked free.
It's a dangerous path we are on when we can be jailed for "offending" people. It also seems to always be one-way too. The muslim protests I have seen look extremely offensive but nothing is done.
Prisons should mainly be for violent criminals and paedophiles, with the latter having the key thrown away.
Yes, we appear to pretty much agree on that. I still think there would be "degrees" of harassment, and the single "bacon on the door" event would be towards the lower end of the scale. Unless it was a case of persistent harassment, the 10 month sentence still seems excessive ?
But we don't know whether that particular mosque has been subject to persistent harrassment, and perhaps this was the final straw.
It could have been that this guy could have been doing such things for months and has only just been caught, we don't really know.
To be honest I can't answer whether it is excessive as I wasn't the one being offended.
Can't help thinking that the kiddy-fiddler's sentence might've been different if he'd been part of the great unwashed, rather than a former member of the legal profession.
Can't help thinking that the kiddy-fiddler's sentence might've been different if he'd been part of the great unwashed, rather than a former member of the legal profession.
I'm all for hate crimes being taken seriously as crime - race hate, homophobia etc it is about time these were tackled. But where it gets blurred for me is religion. As we are in the 21stC, should we even accept the construct of "blasphemy" (against any religion)? That is an interesting q.
I'm all for hate crimes being taken seriously as crime - race hate, homophobia etc it is about time these were tackled. But where it gets blurred for me is religion. As we are in the 21stC, should we even accept the construct of "blasphemy" (against any religion)? That is an interesting q.
No, we should not indulge these fantasies. Had the guy been threatening or violent or caused damage to the mosque, then there would have been cause to maybe jail him. To inflict our severest sanction on somebody because their actions caused these people to apparently have their beliefs "offended", by a piece of bacon, well that has us heading backwards I feel.
How come it isn't illegal for someone to preach that you will burn in hellfire for being gay but if you leave a piece of bacon lying around you will get 10 months in prison?
It should be a crime for offending someone. Come on. What if you offend someone by accident. How does that go? How does that work?
But it involved more than just causing offence. We wouldn't like it if someone scrawled something on our front door, or even on our car. This was only a piece of bacon, but I also wouldn't like it if local youths were sticking a piece of meat on my door persistently either.
I've said, I don't think a custodial sentence was appropriate if this was a one-off offence. But if it was part of a persistent campaign of harassment, maybe it's time to make an example of somebody. I just don't think it should only apply to cases where religion or race are involved, we all deserve the same protection from mindless idiots.
These things make good DM/DS headlines, but without knowing all of the facts from each case, it is pretty pointless trying to play one against the other, unless you are trying to make an 'outrage' headline.
Sentences are bounded by guidelines and are effected by how the accused/defendant acts and/or pleads, alongside countless other parameters.
So we should be able to freely go about offending anyone we want with no consequence?
I think it should be a crime.
If we're talking about simply offending (i.e not on the level of persistent harassment or intimidation) then yes. The mere concept of someone being "offended" is far too much of a blank slate to make it a criminal act. Frankly I'm offended by the idea of it, so do we begin prosecuting you and others like you who voice support for it? Of course not, that would be a nonsense, not far off the level of a bit of ham getting someone's blood up because a book of fairy tales tells them it displeases the king fairy.
These things make good DM/DS headlines, but without knowing all of the facts from each case, it is pretty pointless trying to play one against the other, unless you are trying to make an 'outrage' headline.
Sentences are bounded by guidelines and are effected by how the accused/defendant acts and/or pleads, alongside countless other parameters.
tbh I think this argument is a cop out. Of course other factors come into it but if we're left at the end of the day with a guy who puts ham on a door handle in jail and a guy involved in the proliferation of child porn not...that's just an inescapably wrong state of affairs.
tbh I think this argument is a cop out. Of course other factors come into it but if we're left at the end of the day with a guy who puts ham on a door handle in jail and a guy involved in the proliferation of child porn not...that's just an inescapably wrong state of affairs.
I don't care what he's done before. This act alone warrants the sentence.
See, I disagree. Pragmatically, bacon is harmless. If it offends people on religious grounds then we must bring back the blasphemy laws of yore, where saying "Jesus Christ" would land you in clink for a year.
Otherwise, it's hypocritical.
There seems to be a reluctance from some to admit to exactly what the harmful effects of being "offended" (especially due to religious reasons) actually are. In my experience it's little more than slightly elevated indignation, and a hot flush. Might invoke a response of choice language at most. Nothing that an apology can't usually put right. I don't remember ever feeling miffed with somebody and wanting them put in prison though, but then again, I don't have magical beings and other fantasy characters telling me what to do.
Comments
What is offence though? What is it "to be offended" ? If it is as I said above, merely that strange feeling which is somewhere between indignation and embarrassment, then why is that such an affront as to be worthy of sending the person who has caused it to prison?
It's just a load of crap.
I've seen times where a bloke was jailed for kicking a cat up the arse and on the same day a fella who assaulted an elderly man who was also a cancer sufferer and beat him almost to death walked free.
It's a dangerous path we are on when we can be jailed for "offending" people. It also seems to always be one-way too. The muslim protests I have seen look extremely offensive but nothing is done.
Prisons should mainly be for violent criminals and paedophiles, with the latter having the key thrown away.
Could not agree more.
Quoted for truth. It's outrageous. Although, I would muster that most of the muslims at that particular mosque would have settled for an apology. It's the dunderheaded magistrate in this matter who has decided to be offended on the behalf of muslims everywhere, the idiot.
Yes, we appear to pretty much agree on that. I still think there would be "degrees" of harassment, and the single "bacon on the door" event would be towards the lower end of the scale. Unless it was a case of persistent harassment, the 10 month sentence still seems excessive ?
I think you're right. Liberals are extremely keen on being offended on the behalf of muslims or black people or any other "minority".
I wonder how many people from minority groups for example are so sensitive that they need a new groovy word devised for referring to them every few months.
Liberals are creating and perpetuating resentment and division in society with this behaviour. What is their aim in doing this!?
Aren't you a Christian?
Not very Christian like.
But we don't know whether that particular mosque has been subject to persistent harrassment, and perhaps this was the final straw.
It could have been that this guy could have been doing such things for months and has only just been caught, we don't really know.
To be honest I can't answer whether it is excessive as I wasn't the one being offended.
That's how it works.
The fact you think it should be a crime offends me.
6 months for you.
It should be a crime for offending someone. Come on. What if you offend someone by accident. How does that go? How does that work?
No, we should not indulge these fantasies. Had the guy been threatening or violent or caused damage to the mosque, then there would have been cause to maybe jail him. To inflict our severest sanction on somebody because their actions caused these people to apparently have their beliefs "offended", by a piece of bacon, well that has us heading backwards I feel.
But it involved more than just causing offence. We wouldn't like it if someone scrawled something on our front door, or even on our car. This was only a piece of bacon, but I also wouldn't like it if local youths were sticking a piece of meat on my door persistently either.
I've said, I don't think a custodial sentence was appropriate if this was a one-off offence. But if it was part of a persistent campaign of harassment, maybe it's time to make an example of somebody. I just don't think it should only apply to cases where religion or race are involved, we all deserve the same protection from mindless idiots.
Each case needs to be reviewed as it does now.
I can't see an alternative frankly otherwise you'll have many more cases of bullying and harrassment.
Sentences are bounded by guidelines and are effected by how the accused/defendant acts and/or pleads, alongside countless other parameters.
We will agree to differ then.
Exactly, poppy burners were given a slap on the wrist, that's all bacon man should've got.
See, I disagree. Pragmatically, bacon is harmless. If it offends people on religious grounds then we must bring back the blasphemy laws of yore, where saying "Jesus Christ" would land you in clink for a year.
Otherwise, it's hypocritical.