My kids school does not allow them to wear coats in the building, but they don't have desks/lockers/cloak rooms to leave them in. The result is that NOONE wears a coat to school even in six inches of snow. A few weeks ago they had the nerve to text all the parents reminding them to make sure their children wear coats because we had had torrential rain and the entire school population resembled drowned rats! Either let them wear coats indoors or give them somewhere to put them, don't confiscate them! I am with you on this one
When my son was in school, he was allowed to use a locker to keep his coat in but the lockers were so far away that if he went to fetch his coat from it, he would miss the school bus! Same result no-one wore a coat no matter what the weather.
Well, to state the obvious, in a school of say 1600 pupils, if every one of them chose to go against the system there would be absolute chaos and no-one would learn anything.
Surely this is just part of a bigger picture here about social control. For kids to learn about discipline, rules etc, things that seem to have taken over and controlling every part of modern society today.
Sadly the PC brigade brought this on and nobody saw sense to challenge it. Now H&S rules seem to be the over ruling mechanism now that controls everyone, regardless of how petty or demeaning the rules are.
I had a conversation with someone the other day about schools and how we had a situation about 10 years or so ago where teachers had no control over pupils in class. I know some schools still have isolated incidents of this but by making drachonian style rules and plenty of them, the kids soon learn their place. Not saying its right but something had to be done. Its a tough balancing act with kids because you give them an inch, they take a mile. Like it or not its not easy controlling a school with over 1000 pupils from various backgrounds.
Surely this is just part of a bigger picture here about social control. For kids to learn about discipline, rules etc, things that seem to have taken over and controlling every part of modern society today.
Sadly the PC brigade brought this on and nobody saw sense to challenge it. Now H&S rules seem to be the over ruling mechanism now that controls everyone, regardless of how petty or demeaning the rules are.
I had a conversation with someone the other day about schools and how we had a situation about 10 years or so ago where teachers had no control over pupils in class. I know some schools still have isolated incidents of this but by making drachonian style rules and plenty of them, the kids soon learn their place. Not saying its right but something had to be done. Its a tough balancing act with kids because you give them an inch, they take a mile. Like it or not its not easy controlling a school with over 1000 pupils from various backgrounds.
be controlling of the kids ,you will end up with adults that employers and government can be controlling of,as they do not like free will and free think they just want people to obay never trust your own eyes believe what you are told,but I prefer dangerous freedom over placefull slavery
Ugh. 20 years working in schools and while I'm a fan of uniforms I've never come across some of the ridiculous Jobsworth rules I read about in the press. Measuring skirt length, girls banned from wearing trousers and the one that irks me most - hairstyles. As long as children are clean and obviously cared for, and school colours/tie worn then who cares? There are far bigger issues to worry about than whether a kid has pierced ears or a mohawk, or are carrying their coat over their shoulder... (in all my years I've never heard of a shoulder coat causing injury).
Yes, uniforms create a sense of belonging and identity, and may reduce bullying over designer labels but there's nothing wrong with kids expressing their individuality in terms of hairstyle or girls wearing trousers in school colours or carrying their coat over their shoulder.
Why can't schools just concentrate on education instead if such trivial nonsense?
My son recently got a negative for - wait for it - "blasphemy". (The teacher's very word. Think she's a nutjob). In a lesson, my son blurted out "Jesus Christ!" and was lambasted by jebus's little helper. And then given a negative and sent out of the room. It's not a church school, and only the teacher was offended.
As he already had negatives for other crimes, (most of em deserved), this last one gave automatic detention. Which he refused to go to, as it would be after school and we live miles away so he'd miss the bus home. I felt it wasn't a crime, teacher an idiot, so supported him in that. Mysteriously, they haven't insisted, and he hasn't had any further consequences.
I have told him to say the f word next time, as she finds JC objectionable. Any complaints can be directed towards me.
My Primary school especially felt like a prison, we couldn't do anything.
They banned Pokemon cards, they banned playing bulldog, we had to take turns to play on the grass at lunchtime, there wasn't enough good food at lunch time so they would take it in turns on what year would be first in line to get food. Whenever anything became too popular it would be banned. It's still not a great school now and if i had it my way my niece wouldn't be going there.
Secondary school wasn't so bad, i felt i had a lot more freedom, the no wearing coats indoors rule was there though :rolleyes:
Under the classroom door
trickles
a thin stream of blood
what wrong with "Fight the power! / Stick it the man!" we should not and must not just obay,.
I had a headmaster who said dont rock the boat don't question your teachers just obay and do as told and everyone will be happy,:mad:
That's a great attitude to have if you're doing something meaningful with it, though I have a nagging doubt that the world's true anarchists and revolutionaries spend their time recruiting on the DS general discussion forum
My son recently got a negative for - wait for it - "blasphemy". (The teacher's very word. Think she's a nutjob). In a lesson, my son blurted out "Jesus Christ!" and was lambasted by jebus's little helper. And then given a negative and sent out of the room. It's not a church school, and only the teacher was offended.
As he already had negatives for other crimes, (most of em deserved), this last one gave automatic detention. Which he refused to go to, as it would be after school and we live miles away so he'd miss the bus home. I felt it wasn't a crime, teacher an idiot, so supported him in that. Mysteriously, they haven't insisted, and he hasn't had any further consequences.
I have told him to say the f word next time, as she finds JC objectionable. Any complaints can be directed towards me.
What you say sounds totally reasonable.
Looking back to my schooldays, I do remember we once had a very "liberal" English teacher.
After the first few "Please Sir, can I go to the toilet ?", he said, "Oh now look, this is ridiculous, asking to go to the lavatory at your age (14/15). If you need to go, just say you are nipping to the loo, and go. You don't need my permission"
So that's what happened, and because the guy was a good teacher, and always behaved fairly, nobody abused that little bit of freedom.
What's wrong with "Fight the power! / Stick it to the man."
One man's unfair rule is another man's essential guarantee of fairness and decency. Who decides which rules should be broken?
Let's assume you're at the Supermarket queuing up and somebody pushes in front of you because they feel that queuing is a stupid rule. They believe they have every right to push in as they are in a rush. Are they right to go against the rules? Are you honestly happy in this situation that they have fought the system?
You see, most people who like the idea of people breaking rules, usually only want to encourage it when it won't impact negatively on them.
My daughters school is the same with the coat thing. The problem is that there is nowhere near enough lockers so the majority of pupils end up spending the winter shivering in blazers rather than carrying coats around in a certain manner.
While I do think a lot of rules are there for a good reason, some of them are quite petty and I found it interesting that this year my daughter is doing best in the class she has with a teacher who isn't a stickler and breaks a few of the less important rules herself.
It was like that when I was a kid too. No coats allowed indoors. Of course my school had a heating system that never worked, and the radiators were death traps anyway, so that rule was ignored
I loathed the Head teacher at our kids school and I was a thorn in his side because I questioned everything petty. It got so bad he said I could always go to another school if I didnt like his, to which I replied dont patronise me, my kids go to your school as its the nearest one and i dont drive so it would be an inconvenience to go elsewhere, I dont like you much either but Im not going anywhere , it didnt alter the fact his school was full of petty rules and regulations which I was determined to challenge. I didnt raise a bunch of deliquents, I raised 3 kids who have got rods of steel down their backbones and take no shit from anyone, eldest just graduated with a high 2:1 with honours, next one at university and a 3rd on the way to Uni. End of the day Im on my kids side not some jumped up little Hitler on a power trip. Plus im not the meekly obeying type.
I loathed the Head teacher at our kids school and I was a thorn in his side because I questioned everything petty. It got so bad he said I could always go to another school if I didnt like his, to which I replied dont patronise me, my kids go to your school as its the nearest one and i dont drive so it would be an inconvenience to go elsewhere, I dont like you much either but Im not going anywhere , it didnt alter the fact his school was full of petty rules and regulations which I was determined to challenge. I didnt raise a bunch of deliquents, I raised 3 kids who have got rods of steel down their backbones and take no shit from anyone, eldest just graduated with a high 2:1 with honours, next one at university and a 3rd on the way to Uni. End of the day Im on my kids side not some jumped up little Hitler on a power trip. Plus im not the meekly obeying type.
but sadly some people think you should back up the school.
If there have to be 'rules' at school, why can't they be focused upon treating fellow pupils and teachers with respect, listening to other peoples' point of view as well as stating one's own, trying different ways of looking at a 'problem' and helping to find ways of articulating/ defending oneself without resorting to violence and abuse? Isn't that far more useful?
It seems that some schools are defaulting to the 'easier' methods of establishing control rather than tackling the real life skills kids will need in order to cope with later life. Easier to establish blanket rules about coats, playground rules and uniforms per se rather than work on some of the more challenging aspects of child development. Or is it that some schools are more worried about being sued if little Johnny gets a whack in the eye from little James's duffel coat toggle than helping little Johnny and James develop their common sense skills?
My son has arrived home from school and apologised for being a little late, It turns out that he had to stay behind and collect his belongings as they were confiscated at lunchtime.
His crime was placing his coat over one shoulder for ease of carrying whilst he walked around during his lunch break, Apparently "wearing" a coat at lunchtime is against school rules. :mad:
He wasn't even allowed a chance to get his pens from his coat pocket, I think he has shown restraint by not telling them to do something unsavoury because I would have.
In December? What possible justification can there be for that?
I loathed the Head teacher at our kids school and I was a thorn in his side because I questioned everything petty. It got so bad he said I could always go to another school if I didnt like his, to which I replied dont patronise me, my kids go to your school as its the nearest one and i dont drive so it would be an inconvenience to go elsewhere, I dont like you much either but Im not going anywhere , it didnt alter the fact his school was full of petty rules and regulations which I was determined to challenge.
What kind of parent keeps their children in a school that they think is terrible? To me that says more about the parent than the school.
Comments
When my son was in school, he was allowed to use a locker to keep his coat in but the lockers were so far away that if he went to fetch his coat from it, he would miss the school bus! Same result no-one wore a coat no matter what the weather.
Well, to state the obvious, in a school of say 1600 pupils, if every one of them chose to go against the system there would be absolute chaos and no-one would learn anything.
Having said that, some rules are a bit stupid.
Sadly the PC brigade brought this on and nobody saw sense to challenge it. Now H&S rules seem to be the over ruling mechanism now that controls everyone, regardless of how petty or demeaning the rules are.
I had a conversation with someone the other day about schools and how we had a situation about 10 years or so ago where teachers had no control over pupils in class. I know some schools still have isolated incidents of this but by making drachonian style rules and plenty of them, the kids soon learn their place. Not saying its right but something had to be done. Its a tough balancing act with kids because you give them an inch, they take a mile. Like it or not its not easy controlling a school with over 1000 pupils from various backgrounds.
The rest of the population wears a coat when it needs to, with no drama.
be controlling of the kids ,you will end up with adults that employers and government can be controlling of,as they do not like free will and free think they just want people to obay never trust your own eyes believe what you are told,but I prefer dangerous freedom over placefull slavery
Might be a good idea to enquire as to why that rule exists. Might be some daft safety issue, but it's worth finding out.
As for the rest of the thread and all this "Fight the power! / Stick it the man!" nonsense. Err, whatever lol
what wrong with "Fight the power! / Stick it the man!" we should not and must not just obay,.
I had a headmaster who said dont rock the boat don't question your teachers just obay and do as told and everyone will be happy,:mad:
Yes, uniforms create a sense of belonging and identity, and may reduce bullying over designer labels but there's nothing wrong with kids expressing their individuality in terms of hairstyle or girls wearing trousers in school colours or carrying their coat over their shoulder.
Why can't schools just concentrate on education instead if such trivial nonsense?
As he already had negatives for other crimes, (most of em deserved), this last one gave automatic detention. Which he refused to go to, as it would be after school and we live miles away so he'd miss the bus home. I felt it wasn't a crime, teacher an idiot, so supported him in that. Mysteriously, they haven't insisted, and he hasn't had any further consequences.
I have told him to say the f word next time, as she finds JC objectionable. Any complaints can be directed towards me.
Under the classroom door
trickles
a thin stream of blood
For here begins
the massacre
of the innocents
Miroslav Holub
Cracking bit of parenting there. Have you considered writing a text book on the subject?
That's a great attitude to have if you're doing something meaningful with it, though I have a nagging doubt that the world's true anarchists and revolutionaries spend their time recruiting on the DS general discussion forum
What you say sounds totally reasonable.
Looking back to my schooldays, I do remember we once had a very "liberal" English teacher.
After the first few "Please Sir, can I go to the toilet ?", he said, "Oh now look, this is ridiculous, asking to go to the lavatory at your age (14/15). If you need to go, just say you are nipping to the loo, and go. You don't need my permission"
So that's what happened, and because the guy was a good teacher, and always behaved fairly, nobody abused that little bit of freedom.
One man's unfair rule is another man's essential guarantee of fairness and decency. Who decides which rules should be broken?
Let's assume you're at the Supermarket queuing up and somebody pushes in front of you because they feel that queuing is a stupid rule. They believe they have every right to push in as they are in a rush. Are they right to go against the rules? Are you honestly happy in this situation that they have fought the system?
You see, most people who like the idea of people breaking rules, usually only want to encourage it when it won't impact negatively on them.
While I do think a lot of rules are there for a good reason, some of them are quite petty and I found it interesting that this year my daughter is doing best in the class she has with a teacher who isn't a stickler and breaks a few of the less important rules herself.
but sadly some people think you should back up the school.
It seems that some schools are defaulting to the 'easier' methods of establishing control rather than tackling the real life skills kids will need in order to cope with later life. Easier to establish blanket rules about coats, playground rules and uniforms per se rather than work on some of the more challenging aspects of child development. Or is it that some schools are more worried about being sued if little Johnny gets a whack in the eye from little James's duffel coat toggle than helping little Johnny and James develop their common sense skills?
I wonder what explanation the school gave the OP for this punishment; I can only hope it was a one off.
In December? What possible justification can there be for that?
But this example is just daft and is the kind of thing that just teaches kids to have no respect for rules.
What kind of parent keeps their children in a school that they think is terrible? To me that says more about the parent than the school.