When you think about it though, an explanation of how someone managed to appear to jump of a tall building and walk away outside a Hospital in a busy city centre street without any of the passers by so much as blinking is always going to not ring true in one way or another.
Like all magic tricks the solution is always going to be prosaic and be a bit of a let down. A cast of thousands, backroom organisation from Men in Suits and an emotionally charged Watson believing his eyes is probably one of the more believable ones!
It did say that the street was closed off though didn't it so it was like a big film set?
Laughed at John's middle finger in the air as he pulled on the latex glove.
Laughed at the comment from Sherlock "He told me to f..." juxtaposed with John's request to his patient to "Cough".
Funny, and inventive. But emotional as well.
Yes I agree that it was a brilliant sequence which showed cutaway edits to hilarious effect. I also particularly liked the one where Sherlock was asked what John's reply to him was to which they cut away to Watson in his doctor's surgery asking a patient to 'cough'.:D
The story mimicked V for Vendetta in that both involved exploding a tube train under the Houses of Parliament.
The footage of the exploding HoP was completely different, in that in V it was much more expensively done, with close-ups, and the viewing side was the North side of the Thames, but with Sherlock it was from the South Bank (allowing not so detailed CGI/models to be used?)
That's exactly what I was reminded of too, V. Overall it was a good episode and I'm looking forward to the next one.
I really liked this episode; it's not been my favourite, the top two being The Great Game and A Scandal In Belgravia (yes, I liked ASiB, despite what tumblr would think of me, I'm not the devil). I think the issue with writing for sherlock is the huge fan base is going to mean one group of fans won't be impressed and another will. Similar to DW, I've seen people who love Moffats writing and people who hate it.
I liked Sherlock and Mycrofts' conversations and I think they've really brought them on as characters. I thought Mary was great and I'm interested to see if they write her out or if she fits into the Holmes/Watson dynamic. Anderson was hilarious with his mad theories as was fan club girl and I thought Lestrade and Sherlocks reunion was lovely. Really suited his character and made me laugh.
I thought the humour was on point in this with the references to canon and the cutting from Mrs Hudson and Sherlock to John and his patient. I quite enjoyed the mix of crime show with drama. I thought it was a nice balance! I also love Molly a little bit more although I desperately want Sherlock to deduce Tom/Tim, I've forgotten his name. Budget Benedict is what I'll call him
I took the character's reaction as a joke about fandom (of any TV show, book, game, etc), and how it can generate staggeringly elaborate theories to the point that when the actual reveal happens they either are disappointed or can't accept it.
Me too. That when given an actual reveal it's still not good enough for them and they think there must be more so carry on speculating new fantastical theories.
I'm surprised that quite a few people actually felt it was a hint that Sherlock didn't actually reveal the true explanation.
I doubt very much that this will be revisited.
I don't agree with posters who say that a reveal of a magic trick is disappointing, as I often find that explanations of magic tricks can be brilliant. In fact after most episodes of Sherlock, or shows like Hustle, we are always treated to a reveal, and for the most part I really enjoy seeing how something was pulled off. I remember watching the Penn and Teller magic show in the nineties and the trick reveals were probably more entertaining and satisfying than the actual tricks themselves.
With the TV series Hustle it was always about how delicious the reveal was going to turn out to be and the anticipation of the explanation.
Sherlock is a show which is usually full of reveals of 'tricks' so I don't understand how some posters can say that they find trick reveals disappointing.
The great Sherlock holmes , Knowing the H of P are to be blown up ....walks alone into a tunnel, into a bomb carraige , and NEVER for a moment thought ....I could be trapped here !!!!!
what an idiot. anyone who half suspected that on Nov 5th, a tube train was going to explode would NOT get themselves caught with the bomb , underground, with no mobile signal.... ( yet the bomd couyld remotely be triggered !! ) ... telling no back up in case they got stranded....DUMB DUMB DUMB.
My impression was he was letting Watson think they were going to die so he'd forgive Sherlock. Sherlock *had* called the police, and the bomb squad.
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I really enjoyed the episode, particularly the nods to the fans and the fanfiction. I thought John repeatedly punching Sherlock was maybe a little OTT but it definitely needed a punch.
I actually quite liked Mary - she wasn't forced down our throats. I didn't think I'd like Amanda Abbington but she was really quite tolerable
For me it was a great return. I hope we get a little more plot driven in the next episode though, although it was all necesary in this one.
Of course we all knew that John and Sherlock were going to escape the bomb, but I did have a scary thought that Moffat may have been teasing us all along and was going to black out right there and kill them off, to give the fans a taste of their own medecine for coming up with the Moriarty/Sherlock pairing.
Also, loved Sherlock being grateful to Molly. I hope she can be happy...I think she's the everywoman in Sherlock, to be honest.
No I admit that I haven't seen Tumblr and the Sherlock stuff.
Really though it does seem like the show has sought out this extreme fanbase and made more of a big deal of it than it actually is.
I expect even shows The One Show have extreme fans, but I doubt that they are truly representative in any way of the population of viewers out there.
I'd agree with that. The Moriarty/Sherlock near kiss scene seemed like a nod to the hardcore fanbase, what with all their "fanfiction". There were plenty of others that I didn't catch.
I think they even suggested that one was in his mind - Sherlock disappears (we catch a glimpse of him moving off though) and he goes crazy; it could all have been imagined for all we know and Sherlock was never there.
Perhaps, but I still think that would be about trying to introduce doubt into 'our' minds, even after having been given the truth.
It all felt a bit too "look at us having fun making a hit tv show" to me. then again,I couldn't take the Watson marriage proposal seriously either - Knowing about the "tax" situation of the pair in real life :-)
It did feel way too self aware and self referential than it usually does for my liking.
It felt like the show was saying 'look at how popular we are. Look at how everyone is talking about us. Look at how everyone is speculating about our last show'. Which is probably true, but I don't think I liked that aspect of it. It felt like the show was preening itself and smugly patting itself on its back.
So something which many on this thread say they loved when it was addressing the show's own fans, I didn't.
I still enjoyed it and it was simply too good compared to the vast majority of TV shows out there for me to be too critical about that.
But I really hope that this episode was a brief excursion into this territory and it doesn't become a habit.
I hope service is resumed in the next two episodes.
The thing is that they only have 3 episodes per series and they don't really have a lot of time to play around like this and have the show massage its own ego when it's such a long wait between series for only 3 episodes at a time.
My impression was he was letting Watson think they were going to die so he'd forgive Sherlock. Sherlock *had* called the police, and the bomb squad.
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I really enjoyed the episode, particularly the nods to the fans and the fanfiction. I thought John repeatedly punching Sherlock was maybe a little OTT but it definitely needed a punch.
I actually quite liked Mary - she wasn't forced down our throats. I didn't think I'd like Amanda Abbington but she was really quite tolerable
For me it was a great return. I hope we get a little more plot driven in the next episode though, although it was all necesary in this one.
Of course we all knew that John and Sherlock were going to escape the bomb, but I did have a scary thought that Moffat may have been teasing us all along and was going to black out right there and kill them off, to give the fans a taste of their own medecine for coming up with the Moriarty/Sherlock pairing.
Also, loved Sherlock being grateful to Molly. I hope she can be happy...I think she's the everywoman in Sherlock, to be honest.
Really ? by that time i had lost the will to live.
Emotional, deep, romantic drama I can find anywhere.
I want Sherlock Holmes.
Not this Dr Who in a deerstalker, fan hysteria, dragged out, implausible drivel.
Really ? by that time i had lost the will to live.
Emotional, deep, romantic drama I can find anywhere.
I want Sherlock Holmes.
Not this Dr Who in a deerstalker, fan hysteria, dragged out, implausible drivel.
Fair enough I understand where you're coming from, shows can quite easily become victims of their own success. It really worked for me but I can see exactly why it wouldn't work for other people. Then again, I want Sherlock's babies, so I'll forgive the show pretty much anything
I haven't read The Empty House and now I must do so. The 2 year gap in this show may have been by design, in order to create a similar hiatus as in the original Conan Doyle stories. I remember that originally, Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes and was forced to bring him back, therefore he had to come up with a plausible explanation for his faked death. In Sherlock, the whole plot has been planned in advance and is not a response to the audience's shock at Sherlock's apparent death. However, they have included a nod to the audience reaction, so that's quite a clever angle.
As far as I am concerned, the writers are still sticking to the overall plan, of modernising the Holmes stories. I don't think this episode has driven the whole project off track and some people are suggesting.
Personally, I really enjoyed it and I'm waiting to see what happens in the other episodes.
Me too.
Re the bit in bold, there was close to two years between seasons one and two, and a two-year cycle has always been intentional, I believe.
Indeed, it was this broad window which allowed Cumberbatch to shoot Star Trek 2 (and other films - he's been busy!) and Freeman to do The Hobbit (I know BC is in it too, but he was providing voice only rather than being the star of the piece). And from previous interviews we know that it was Peter Jackson that rearranged the Hobbit shooting schedule to fit around Sherlock, and not the other way round - which is quite something when you think about it.
As I've said in my review and elsewhere, I loved this. Offering no definitive solution (which is how I read the Sherlock version to Anderson - I see it as him toying with him rather than telling him the truth) was a clever way of sidestepping the inevitable issue of coming up with an 'answer' that half the fans disagree with.
Unlike some others here, I really enjoyed the character piece too. Conan Doyle reset the relationship too quickly on Holmes' return in my opinion (Watson faints, then all's well again), so I appreciated the examination of how the relationship had fractured and actually needed the high-stress situation of the bomb to fully repair it by forcing John to forgive Sherlock out loud.
People seem to over think shows like this. It is not like we need to watch and there will be a test afterwards on logic!
I really liked the old fella in his surgery that John thought was Holmes. I am so used to seeing Holmes dressed up. I actually thought it was Mark Gatiss's voice. Hence I though Mycroft had put on a disguise to bring John around. That had me fooled.
It's a hat-tip to the original story. Holmes appears to Watson disguised as an elderly, wizened book collector carrying books about tree worshipping, British birds and the Holy War among others. The man in Watson's GP surgery shows John a DVD about tree worship, a 'British birds' porn mag - which, if you'd spotted the link by then, is hilarious - and a DVD about the Holy War. A subtle nod that doesn't detract from the scene, but a funny one for the geeks (like me).
There's a recent Radio Times interview floating about where Steven Moffat has said that the team knew where the Reichenbach Fall episode was to go from the start. Therefore, in my estimation, that means that they know how Sherlock faked his death. This was presumably before the episode aired, so whatever the reaction and theorising afterwards by the fans, Moffat et al already knew. Therefore, we have not seen their 'version' yet. We have only seen fandoms' theories. If some fans have got got the solution right, then why don't they say so? If they haven't, then hopefully the team will tell us so, too. If they leave the solution hanging in the air for all time, then I think that would be lazy writing and they are taking us for a ride whilst laughing at us at the same time.
Just my interpretation up to now, of course. I could very well be wrong.
I think this may have been the interview after the BFI preview screening. I believe Moffat/Gatiss mentioned that they already filmed some of the scenes at the end of season 2, having mapped out what they wanted to show. They then came back in the season 3 shooting block for a day to shoot the rest of it.
so anyway back to my original question Is Sherlock in Love with Molly as he kept saying that Moriarty had overlooked the most important person to him or did he just mean she was important in that she waskey to the plot succeeding
That's how I took it at first - he was disappointed because all his theories (and the time he had spent developing them) were shown to be a waste of his time.
I'm still not convinced about the Sherlock look-a-like body referred to in Sherlock's explanation. Watson sees the real Sherlock jump. He then gets knocked down and disorientated by the the cyclist. When he finally arrives at Sherlock's side, the real Sherlock has replaced the body double - so, for Watson to be convinced, we didn't need the body double at all. Everyone else is in on the dedception, so we didn't need any dead body to pull off the trick.
In my iopinion, it would have made much more sense to have just used the dead body double to trick Watson. If such a good look alike was available (as it can be in fiction), then Watson (particularly if disorientated) would be fooled. Also, as Moriarty was so thorough, he would have found a good double, and clearly did as the yound girl could not tell them apart.
So, Sherlock jumps onto an air bag (or still more likely into the back of a vehicle - just because Sherlock says it wasn't in the right place doesn't mean anything, he can get it put in the right place). They then dump the already dead look-a-like on the pavement in readiness for John Watson.
It looks like I'm trapped in the Gatiss/Moffat world. I'll have to get some pictures on the wall and bits of string to connect them.
Although I may be wrong, I think the point of the fake body double was to buy Sherlock enough time to get down from the top of the building to where he was supposed to end up.
so anyway back to my original question Is Sherlock in Love with Molly as he kept saying that Moriarty had overlooked the most important person to him or did he just mean she was important in that she waskey to the plot succeeding
I don't think Sherlock knows *love*, certainly the Sherlock of s1 and s2 knows nothing of it. I think part of that was he knew how much it would mean to Molly for him to say it, but she was the most important part of the plan. I don't think he's in love with her but I wish he was!
I liked the first two series, but the moment I saw the face-swap/backwards jump/celeb cameo thing in the first three minutes, I turned off and refuse to watch it
Moffat is urinating all over Doctor Who, but to empty his bladder over Sherlock is a crime against television drama. I lasted until Derren Brown turned up to collect a pay-cheque, then switched over to enjoy Blackadder on Dave.
I won't be watching Sherlock again unless and until Moff leaves.
Are you saying that you don't know what happened from the point where you said you switched it over?
Oh well, never mind. Moff has already come close to ruining Who, I'm not going to miss having the p--- taken out of me on two shows (which is all Moff seems to do)
Well I think you did miss it all if you didn't watch beyond the point you said that you turned it over. I think the red mist may have got the better of you and you missed out.
I sort of understand what you're saying though. It may be the case that some fans may get obsessed with Doctor Who, but by the same token it feels like the writers on Doctor Who have become obsessed with 'fans' and it has become a war of attrition.:D
To the point where writers on Doctor Who have allowed this to infect them when working on another show, in this case Sherlock.
I don't think Moffat actually goes as far as hating fans, but I get the sense of an extremely patronising attitudue towards them in this episode of Sherlock, in a 'Aren't they sweet' kind of way.
I think it offered a very blinkered and prejudiced view of what fans of a TV show are like. It's true that extremes will exist, but this was depicting a view of fans of Sherlock with incredibly thick brush strokes.
I did find it a little jarring and more misplaced in this TV series.
It also felt like it was bragging at the fact that it feels that the show has obsessive fans and was making too much of a point of this as if it was wearing it as a badge of honour.
I think that they work very closely together.
I don't think that they write completely independently of each other. Especially in this short 3 episode series where they need a good continuity of point plotting.
Although I may be wrong, I think the point of the fake body double was to buy Sherlock enough time to get down from the top of the building to where he was supposed to end up.
Comments
It did say that the street was closed off though didn't it so it was like a big film set?
Yes I agree that it was a brilliant sequence which showed cutaway edits to hilarious effect. I also particularly liked the one where Sherlock was asked what John's reply to him was to which they cut away to Watson in his doctor's surgery asking a patient to 'cough'.:D
That's exactly what I was reminded of too, V. Overall it was a good episode and I'm looking forward to the next one.
I liked Sherlock and Mycrofts' conversations and I think they've really brought them on as characters. I thought Mary was great and I'm interested to see if they write her out or if she fits into the Holmes/Watson dynamic. Anderson was hilarious with his mad theories as was fan club girl and I thought Lestrade and Sherlocks reunion was lovely. Really suited his character and made me laugh.
I thought the humour was on point in this with the references to canon and the cutting from Mrs Hudson and Sherlock to John and his patient. I quite enjoyed the mix of crime show with drama. I thought it was a nice balance! I also love Molly a little bit more although I desperately want Sherlock to deduce Tom/Tim, I've forgotten his name. Budget Benedict is what I'll call him
Then "His last vow."
Then a 6 year break presumably.
Me too. That when given an actual reveal it's still not good enough for them and they think there must be more so carry on speculating new fantastical theories.
I'm surprised that quite a few people actually felt it was a hint that Sherlock didn't actually reveal the true explanation.
I doubt very much that this will be revisited.
I don't agree with posters who say that a reveal of a magic trick is disappointing, as I often find that explanations of magic tricks can be brilliant. In fact after most episodes of Sherlock, or shows like Hustle, we are always treated to a reveal, and for the most part I really enjoy seeing how something was pulled off. I remember watching the Penn and Teller magic show in the nineties and the trick reveals were probably more entertaining and satisfying than the actual tricks themselves.
With the TV series Hustle it was always about how delicious the reveal was going to turn out to be and the anticipation of the explanation.
Sherlock is a show which is usually full of reveals of 'tricks' so I don't understand how some posters can say that they find trick reveals disappointing.
My impression was he was letting Watson think they were going to die so he'd forgive Sherlock. Sherlock *had* called the police, and the bomb squad.
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I really enjoyed the episode, particularly the nods to the fans and the fanfiction. I thought John repeatedly punching Sherlock was maybe a little OTT but it definitely needed a punch.
I actually quite liked Mary - she wasn't forced down our throats. I didn't think I'd like Amanda Abbington but she was really quite tolerable
For me it was a great return. I hope we get a little more plot driven in the next episode though, although it was all necesary in this one.
Of course we all knew that John and Sherlock were going to escape the bomb, but I did have a scary thought that Moffat may have been teasing us all along and was going to black out right there and kill them off, to give the fans a taste of their own medecine for coming up with the Moriarty/Sherlock pairing.
Also, loved Sherlock being grateful to Molly. I hope she can be happy...I think she's the everywoman in Sherlock, to be honest.
I'd agree with that. The Moriarty/Sherlock near kiss scene seemed like a nod to the hardcore fanbase, what with all their "fanfiction". There were plenty of others that I didn't catch.
Perhaps, but I still think that would be about trying to introduce doubt into 'our' minds, even after having been given the truth.
So why should there be a new series every year?
It did feel way too self aware and self referential than it usually does for my liking.
It felt like the show was saying 'look at how popular we are. Look at how everyone is talking about us. Look at how everyone is speculating about our last show'. Which is probably true, but I don't think I liked that aspect of it. It felt like the show was preening itself and smugly patting itself on its back.
So something which many on this thread say they loved when it was addressing the show's own fans, I didn't.
I still enjoyed it and it was simply too good compared to the vast majority of TV shows out there for me to be too critical about that.
But I really hope that this episode was a brief excursion into this territory and it doesn't become a habit.
I hope service is resumed in the next two episodes.
The thing is that they only have 3 episodes per series and they don't really have a lot of time to play around like this and have the show massage its own ego when it's such a long wait between series for only 3 episodes at a time.
Really ? by that time i had lost the will to live.
Emotional, deep, romantic drama I can find anywhere.
I want Sherlock Holmes.
Not this Dr Who in a deerstalker, fan hysteria, dragged out, implausible drivel.
Fair enough
Re the bit in bold, there was close to two years between seasons one and two, and a two-year cycle has always been intentional, I believe.
Indeed, it was this broad window which allowed Cumberbatch to shoot Star Trek 2 (and other films - he's been busy!) and Freeman to do The Hobbit (I know BC is in it too, but he was providing voice only rather than being the star of the piece). And from previous interviews we know that it was Peter Jackson that rearranged the Hobbit shooting schedule to fit around Sherlock, and not the other way round - which is quite something when you think about it.
As I've said in my review and elsewhere, I loved this. Offering no definitive solution (which is how I read the Sherlock version to Anderson - I see it as him toying with him rather than telling him the truth) was a clever way of sidestepping the inevitable issue of coming up with an 'answer' that half the fans disagree with.
Unlike some others here, I really enjoyed the character piece too. Conan Doyle reset the relationship too quickly on Holmes' return in my opinion (Watson faints, then all's well again), so I appreciated the examination of how the relationship had fractured and actually needed the high-stress situation of the bomb to fully repair it by forcing John to forgive Sherlock out loud.
Although I may be wrong, I think the point of the fake body double was to buy Sherlock enough time to get down from the top of the building to where he was supposed to end up.
I don't think Sherlock knows *love*, certainly the Sherlock of s1 and s2 knows nothing of it. I think part of that was he knew how much it would mean to Molly for him to say it, but she was the most important part of the plan. I don't think he's in love with her but I wish he was!
Are you saying that you don't know what happened from the point where you said you switched it over?
I didn't really get it either, I went on to assume it was something Anderson made up to catch Sherlock's attention and get him out of the woodwork?
Well I think you did miss it all if you didn't watch beyond the point you said that you turned it over. I think the red mist may have got the better of you and you missed out.
I sort of understand what you're saying though. It may be the case that some fans may get obsessed with Doctor Who, but by the same token it feels like the writers on Doctor Who have become obsessed with 'fans' and it has become a war of attrition.:D
To the point where writers on Doctor Who have allowed this to infect them when working on another show, in this case Sherlock.
I don't think Moffat actually goes as far as hating fans, but I get the sense of an extremely patronising attitudue towards them in this episode of Sherlock, in a 'Aren't they sweet' kind of way.
I think it offered a very blinkered and prejudiced view of what fans of a TV show are like. It's true that extremes will exist, but this was depicting a view of fans of Sherlock with incredibly thick brush strokes.
I did find it a little jarring and more misplaced in this TV series.
It also felt like it was bragging at the fact that it feels that the show has obsessive fans and was making too much of a point of this as if it was wearing it as a badge of honour.
I think that they work very closely together.
I don't think that they write completely independently of each other. Especially in this short 3 episode series where they need a good continuity of point plotting.
He jumped onto the airbag??