Just because you live in a society where religion is on the decline, doesn't mean the same goes for the rest of the world. Religion will never 'die' out...
I'm sorry... but I don't think he said anything offensive. He just shared HIS opinion, which he should be allowed to have.
It's okay if gay people are allowed to fight for their beliefs, but not okay for someone who is religious and believes in God to share theirs?! What kind of world are we living in here?! I'm not saying his views are right or wrong BUTTTT he's allowed to have them as long as he expresses them in a civilized and respectful manner.
People shouldn't discriminate. That is all. Other than that, each individual is entitled to their own opinion - take the Digital Spy forum rules for example.
Take what about the digitalspy forum rules?
Celebrity big brother has rules. They are freely available for any housemate to read, and I am pretty sure they are made clear beforehand. One of the rules is that language that may be offensive (racist, homophobic, threatening) is not permitted. Stephen Baldwin, another American conservative Christian, was visibly careful with his words when the conversation turned to homosexuality. If Holyfield does not want to comply by the rules of a secular European gameshow, he should not do it. Presumably he knows the way the land lies now.
no not to everyone which is why handing out warnings for things which doesnt offend everyone is stupid
It seems absolutely ludicrous to me to suggest that something is only offensive if it 'offends everyone'. That would be nothing, and the house would be obliged to allow racism, insults relating to extreme sexual violence, everything. They really are entitled to tailor the rules to normal expectations re. British tv. It is not generally considered acceptable to say that gay people are broken and should get themselves fixed. It is right that that should be challenged.
Totally and utterly correct. If BB want a non thinking PC household then dont invite a christian on. Or a muslim. Or a jew. Religious views are your own and you should not be terrified to express them.
What a gigantic straw man. We have had several muslims, a lot of Christians and several Jewish people. None of them have appeared frightened. BB invites, and the people themselves may accept or not as they choose; if they accept, they are accepting that they will be on a show where homophobic language is not allowed.
It's not quite the same as gay people fighting for their beliefs.
One is about fighting for the right to be treated equally, the other is about prohibiting others from the same rights as others.
As far as im concerned he can think and say whatever he wants. Some will agree and some won't. Simples.
No one can 'say whatever they want', in any circumstances. Someone may want to put someone into a state of fear, or bully them, or abuse them on grounds of race, religion or sexuality; they may contrive lies that put someone into a state of great distress; they may endanger someone with false information.
To be fair, Evander never said at any point that he does not like gay people...
That really is not the point. Dismissing a whole section of humanity as being broken, and saying that they should just get themselves fixed and solve the 'problem' can hardly fail to be felt as a hostile attitude. It really wouldn't have made it any better if he had said, "but I know a gay person whom I don't hate".
I don't understand your point. Being gay isn't a disability so it is offensive for Evander to compare the two. Nothing to do with being a horrendous affliction.
I'd say comparing homosexuals to handicapped people is offensive.
why? being handicapped/disabled/whatever is not some obscene evil that makes it offensive to be likened to. posts like this are just as ignorant, ill thought out and disgusting to hear as evanders views. disabilities are variations in genetics just as homosexuality, that much was right in what evander was saying, so his comparison was logical but what was offensive was him saying they needed to be fixed, just as many disabled people may find that view offensive when applied to their disability.
why? being handicapped/disabled/whatever is not some obscene evil that makes it offensive to be likened to. posts like this are just as ignorant, ill thought out and disgusting to hear as evanders views. disabilities are variations in genetics just as homosexuality, that much was right in what evander was saying, so his comparison was logical but what was offensive was him saying they needed to be fixed, just as many disabled people may find that view offensive when applied to their disability.
Nobody is saying that being disabled is some obscene evil. I don't understand why it's not clear why equating homosexuality to a handicap wouldn't be offensive?
To be fair, Evander never said at any point that he does not like gay people...
exactly, he didnt appear to show any homophobia whatsoever, just complete ignorance due to the brainwahsing of his religion. people like him NEED debate on the subject in order for him to understand his views are wrong, he'll never be convinced otherwise
I wasn't bothered by what he said at all. It's his opinion, he's free to share it. I actually don't think he meant to come across like he was comparing being gay to having a disability, but he was struggling in ways in which to explain what he meant properly.
I'm sorry... but I don't think he said anything offensive. He just shared HIS opinion, which he should be allowed to have.
It's okay if gay people are allowed to fight for their beliefs, but not okay for someone who is religious and believes in God to share theirs?! What kind of world are we living in here?! I'm not saying his views are right or wrong BUTTTT he's allowed to have them as long as he expresses them in a civilized and respectful manner.
People shouldn't discriminate. That is all. Other than that, each individual is entitled to their own opinion - take the Digital Spy forum rules for example.
Err, opinions aren't immune from being offensive. Or being libellous. Or breaking the law. Or stupid. Etc.
As for "as long as [t]he[y] expresses them in a civilized and respectful manner" - Yeah. Because you can really put across a civilised racist or homophobic opinion, right? :rolleyes:
why? being handicapped/disabled/whatever is not some obscene evil that makes it offensive to be likened to. posts like this are just as ignorant, ill thought out and disgusting to hear as evanders views. disabilities are variations in genetics just as homosexuality, that much was right in what evander was saying, so his comparison was logical but what was offensive was him saying they needed to be fixed, just as many disabled people may find that view offensive when applied to their disability.
The inference was that homosexuals could receive treatment. Presumably to be "cured".
His opinion was certainly offensive but it is his opinion and I want to hear it and have it debated properly rather than have him admonished by BB like him and us are children who cannot cope with differing opinions. This has the effect of stifling debate and how is that helpful to anyone.
Agreed - Big Brother is very safe these days. Under the rules they set out it clearly was offensive and they were always going to pull him up on it but I wish there was a little more room for debate
I remember being frustrated in BB11 that we never really got to see a proper debate between Dave and Caiomhe on these sort of issues as Dave was very careful about discussing anything like that. Under BB rules he was clearly doing the correct thing, but it would have been much more interesting to see two people with strong opinions having a good debate.
why? being handicapped/disabled/whatever is not some obscene evil that makes it offensive to be likened to. posts like this are just as ignorant, ill thought out and disgusting to hear as evanders views. disabilities are variations in genetics just as homosexuality, that much was right in what evander was saying, so his comparison was logical but what was offensive was him saying they needed to be fixed, just as many disabled people may find that view offensive when applied to their disability.
No, but being homosexual does not mean you are in any way handicapped, disfigured or unable to go about your life like any healthy person. So yeah, I stick by my initial statement.
Nobody is saying that being disabled is some obscene evil. I don't understand why it's not clear why equating homosexuality to a handicap wouldn't be offensive?
because in evanders mind, both are negative traits which need to be fixed. when in fact, neither are negative and its societys perception of them that need to be fixed.
But evidently not the particular sects that Evander and Jim follow.
Evander is from America and various parts of the USA are strictly religious. Jim Davison stated that he found comfort from the Bible owing to the previous year. I think you might find the Koran has stronger views with regards sexual preferences than Christianity, if you want to bring other religions into the equation. I do not condone what Evander has said, but it was a private conversation, between an elderly gentleman and one other person. He stated his reasons behind the comment, based on his religious teachings.
Bigotry is someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust, hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's opinion, ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.
If I said I thought the Bible was a piece of fiction, I'd fully understand a Christian finding that offensive. I wouldn't jump down their throat and call them unreasonable.
A member of the gay community has every right to be offended by what Evander said.
I'm sorry... but I don't think he said anything offensive. He just shared HIS opinion, which he should be allowed to have.
It's okay if gay people are allowed to fight for their beliefs, but not okay for someone who is religious and believes in God to share theirs?! What kind of world are we living in here?! I'm not saying his views are right or wrong BUTTTT he's allowed to have them as long as he expresses them in a civilized and respectful manner.
People shouldn't discriminate. That is all. Other than that, each individual is entitled to their own opinion - take the Digital Spy forum rules for example.
So you think it would be ok for white people to label a black person as inferior to a white person?
I`m sick to death of people like yourself who attempt to justify homophobia or sexism yet condemn other forms of prejudice you cannot pick and choose which prejudice is more important than the other all prejudice is wrong full stop.
This form of passive homophobia that comes from people who say well I`m not homophobic but or I don`t agree but is really quite pathetic in 2014 because anything that comes before that "but" means jack sh*t.
There are laws now in place in this country that have put homophobia on exactly the same footing as racism with regards to discrimination, hate speech and hate crime its as simple as that.
Why is it ok for you to say that and not ok for someone to say they dont like the gays?
Is it cooler for the young people to stand up for gay than it it is to stand up for religion?
Gays and religious people should both have the same right to speech and the same protection from haters. You can have a go at Religion and also complain about people having a go at gays
Because gay people tend to be real and don't cause suffering to others and religion is a crackpot fairytale that does.
If I said I thought the Bible was a piece of fiction, I'd fully understand a Christian finding that offensive. I wouldn't jump down their throat and call them unreasonable.
A member of the gay community has every right to be offended by what Evander said.
I wouldn't have thought any Christian would mind you saying that the Bible was a work of fiction. A faith has to be worth fighting for. I assume that you would not say that Christians need to go to a doctor and get 'fixed' via a long and painful process of extreme mental pressure.
So you think it would be ok for white people to label a black person as inferior to a white person?
I`m sick to death of people like yourself who attempt to justify homophobia or sexism yet condemn other forms of prejudice you cannot pick and choose which prejudice is more important than the other all prejudice is wrong full stop.
This form of passive homophobia that comes from people who say well I`m not homophobic but or I don`t agree but is really quite pathetic in 2014 because anything that comes before that "but" means jack sh*t.
There are laws now in place in this country that have put homophobia on exactly the same footing as racism with regards to discrimination, hate speech and hate crime its as simple as that.
Exactly! It's amazing how there are so many "everyone is entitled to their own opinion.....but only if it's a negative one about homosexuals". I can't believe how many people think it is okay to have a homophobic opinion, not realising it's as disgusting as a racist opinion. It's almost as though if something hateful is said calmly then it's suddenly okay!
I wouldn't have thought any Christian would mind you saying that the Bible was a work of fiction. A faith has to be worth fighting for. I assume that you would not say that Christians need to go to a doctor and get 'fixed' via a long and painful process of extreme mental pressure.
He said being gay IS a choice. Considering he's not gay or bisexual himself, how would he know? It was an insensitive thing to say, and a very stupid thing to say on national television. And comparing it to handicapped people is going too far I'm afraid. He deserved the warning 100%.
Men/Women who think same-sex relationships is a choice made are only judging by their own urges
THEY could swing either way and THEY'VE CHOSEN to go for the opposite sex for whatever reason (mostly guilt)so they think a gay man or woman has that same choice to make, they can't identify with being from one SINGULAR persuasion, anyone TRULY comfortable with their own sexuality feels no threat from Gay people
But regardless to 'my' opinion I still feel Evander has the right to his opinion too and shouldn't be chastised for his own belief just to avoid hurting others (jeez I'm sure Gays have had a tad worse)
Comments
The irony you are showing is fantastic
Exactly, i'm gonna have to stay away from this place for a while.
Celebrity big brother has rules. They are freely available for any housemate to read, and I am pretty sure they are made clear beforehand. One of the rules is that language that may be offensive (racist, homophobic, threatening) is not permitted. Stephen Baldwin, another American conservative Christian, was visibly careful with his words when the conversation turned to homosexuality. If Holyfield does not want to comply by the rules of a secular European gameshow, he should not do it. Presumably he knows the way the land lies now. It seems absolutely ludicrous to me to suggest that something is only offensive if it 'offends everyone'. That would be nothing, and the house would be obliged to allow racism, insults relating to extreme sexual violence, everything. They really are entitled to tailor the rules to normal expectations re. British tv. It is not generally considered acceptable to say that gay people are broken and should get themselves fixed. It is right that that should be challenged. What a gigantic straw man. We have had several muslims, a lot of Christians and several Jewish people. None of them have appeared frightened. BB invites, and the people themselves may accept or not as they choose; if they accept, they are accepting that they will be on a show where homophobic language is not allowed. Perfectly put.
Off you trot then.
More crass and religiously brainwashed than muddled I would have thought.
Err, opinions aren't immune from being offensive. Or being libellous. Or breaking the law. Or stupid. Etc.
As for "as long as [t]he[y] expresses them in a civilized and respectful manner" - Yeah. Because you can really put across a civilised racist or homophobic opinion, right? :rolleyes:
The inference was that homosexuals could receive treatment. Presumably to be "cured".
Agreed - Big Brother is very safe these days. Under the rules they set out it clearly was offensive and they were always going to pull him up on it but I wish there was a little more room for debate
I remember being frustrated in BB11 that we never really got to see a proper debate between Dave and Caiomhe on these sort of issues as Dave was very careful about discussing anything like that. Under BB rules he was clearly doing the correct thing, but it would have been much more interesting to see two people with strong opinions having a good debate.
Evander is from America and various parts of the USA are strictly religious. Jim Davison stated that he found comfort from the Bible owing to the previous year. I think you might find the Koran has stronger views with regards sexual preferences than Christianity, if you want to bring other religions into the equation. I do not condone what Evander has said, but it was a private conversation, between an elderly gentleman and one other person. He stated his reasons behind the comment, based on his religious teachings.
Bigotry is someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust, hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's opinion, ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.
A member of the gay community has every right to be offended by what Evander said.
Tell that to Evander :cool:
So you think it would be ok for white people to label a black person as inferior to a white person?
I`m sick to death of people like yourself who attempt to justify homophobia or sexism yet condemn other forms of prejudice you cannot pick and choose which prejudice is more important than the other all prejudice is wrong full stop.
This form of passive homophobia that comes from people who say well I`m not homophobic but or I don`t agree but is really quite pathetic in 2014 because anything that comes before that "but" means jack sh*t.
There are laws now in place in this country that have put homophobia on exactly the same footing as racism with regards to discrimination, hate speech and hate crime its as simple as that.
Because gay people tend to be real and don't cause suffering to others and religion is a crackpot fairytale that does.
I wouldn't have thought any Christian would mind you saying that the Bible was a work of fiction. A faith has to be worth fighting for. I assume that you would not say that Christians need to go to a doctor and get 'fixed' via a long and painful process of extreme mental pressure.
Exactly! It's amazing how there are so many "everyone is entitled to their own opinion.....but only if it's a negative one about homosexuals". I can't believe how many people think it is okay to have a homophobic opinion, not realising it's as disgusting as a racist opinion. It's almost as though if something hateful is said calmly then it's suddenly okay!
Atheist debaters have said far worse.
It's about a bulls*** Bible-led way of thinking
also..
Men/Women who think same-sex relationships is a choice made are only judging by their own urges
THEY could swing either way and THEY'VE CHOSEN to go for the opposite sex for whatever reason (mostly guilt)so they think a gay man or woman has that same choice to make, they can't identify with being from one SINGULAR persuasion, anyone TRULY comfortable with their own sexuality feels no threat from Gay people
But regardless to 'my' opinion I still feel Evander has the right to his opinion too and shouldn't be chastised for his own belief just to avoid hurting others (jeez I'm sure Gays have had a tad worse)
No-one has the right to NOT be offended