Let's do a wild stupid one.
Some fear it's going more soapy. Apart from Sherlock changing a lot, there's only one episode like that so far. But let's say it would.
In soap-opera, there's that old cliché; who's the father?
Imagine the intrigue if the father is Mycroft! He did check his belly in the scene he was exercising
On a more serious note, i did think that scene was weird to put in. There's so many ways to show he trying to lose weight (to fit the fact that the original was supposed to be bigger). They could have shown him pedaling at the same time he talks to Sherlock on the phone. It seemed deliberate to show Mycroft in such a way.
Ah let's not go all Eastenders, please!
Mycroft exercising and checking his belly - isn't that more (as you say) a reference to him supposedly being quite portly in the original stories, and his brother making fun of that? Is there more to it?
Oh I give up - there's far too much going on in this current series! I want to know what Redbeard means though, I've been trying to figure it out for days and I just can't.
It depends how much of the bit following the fall is Moriatied.
Would it just be easier to have a body for the undertaker and funeral rather than have to find/pay a compliant chap and bury a coffin full of rocks?
In the whole scheme of things, I don't think a bodyless funeral would be that hard to arrange. Also, if they used a lookalike as a stand in body for Sherlock, they would still be short of a body when it came to burying the dead look alike.
Mycroft exercising and checking his belly - isn't that more (as you say) a reference to him supposedly being quite portly in the original stories, and his brother making fun of that? Is there more to it?
Oh I give up - there's far too much going on in this current series! I want to know what Redbeard means though, I've been trying to figure it out for days and I just can't.
Damn you Gatiss, damn you
But so much fun. I admit it makes me very excited. So much that when i go to write for other shows, it has become almost auto-pilot compared to Sherlock.
Sherlock is like a giant 3D chess game like in Star Trek, where Sherlock has regenerated with a bit of Masterchef thrown in when i could say 'watching a tv show doesn't get tougher than this'
Having a ball with this thread
THank you everyone. Of course you're not doing it for me but the result is the same; been a while since i was stimulated like this by a popular tv show.
And given i'm in very good mood with an excellent begining of the year, i wish everyone a happy and fruitful 15th year of the 21st century
In the whole scheme of things, I don't think a bodyless funeral would be that hard to arrange. Also, if they used a lookalike as a stand in body for Sherlock, they would still be short of a body when it came to burying the dead look alike.
Agreed, it wouldn't be a problem.
As for missing a body, all they have to do is come up with an urn full of ashes.
Can they analyse ashes for DNA comparison?
About the fall.
Let's say i accept Sherlock's explaination (third in the episode). There's been a lot of talk about the body used that looked like Sherlock.
My interrogation is: why would they need another body at all?
If Watson wasn't able to see the impact, why another body? Just for the sound of the impact? It could have been done with a recording. They were so well organised, surely a simple recording would have been easy?
If there's another reason to use another body even though Watson was unable to see the impact, please enlighten me.
Of course, that's all in the frame that we accept Sherlock's explaination. I have a big doubt because of the ending where Watson asks Sherlock about it. Sherlock answers. But Watson asks a second time and Sherlock doesn't answer, just smile. To me, that's a clue of the same family that's was discussed here. I don't think ther are many in Sherlock, who relies more on hard fact. But it's true, it is being used a lot in mystery solving stories. Mostly in Poirot like stories when there's a clear selection of suspects. When one of them is asked a question, he or she reacts to make think the audience; this one has something to hide. Mostly to misdirect audience, i think. But not always.
Re bib. I'm not sure what you mean here. I thought that Watson had said that he didn't want to know how Sherlock did the fall, but why he did it.
Let's do a wild stupid one.
Some fear it's going more soapy. Apart from Sherlock changing a lot, there's only one episode like that so far. But let's say it would.
In soap-opera, there's that old cliché; who's the father?
Imagine the intrigue if the father is Mycroft! He did check his belly in the scene he was exercising
On a more serious note, i did think that scene was weird to put in. There's so many ways to show he trying to lose weight (to fit the fact that the original was supposed to be bigger). They could have shown him pedaling at the same time he talks to Sherlock on the phone. It seemed deliberate to show Mycroft in such a way.
It may probably be more down less to trying to make Gatiss fit in with the original physical image of Mycroft, and more to do with highlighting Mycroft's insecurity in face of Sherlock's jibes at him asking him how his diet is going.
But so much fun. I admit it makes me very excited. So much that when i go to write for other shows, it has become almost auto-pilot compared to Sherlock.
Sherlock is like a giant 3D chess game like in Star Trek, where Sherlock has regenerated with a bit of Masterchef thrown in when i could say 'watching a tv show doesn't get tougher than this'
Having a ball with this thread
THank you everyone. Of course you're not doing it for me but the result is the same; been a while since i was stimulated like this by a popular tv show.
And given i'm in very good mood with an excellent begining of the year, i wish everyone a happy and fruitful 15th year of the 21st century
I agree. Lots of fun. Not at all important, but lots of fun
Mycroft exercising and checking his belly - isn't that more (as you say) a reference to him supposedly being quite portly in the original stories, and his brother making fun of that? Is there more to it?
Oh I give up - there's far too much going on in this current series! I want to know what Redbeard means though, I've been trying to figure it out for days and I just can't.
Damn you Gatiss, damn you
A Fairy Story I think about a King Redbeard who didn't really die but stayed hidden in a mountain until needed. Sherlock didn't die but hid until he was needed by Mycroft.
Mycroft exercising and checking his belly - isn't that more (as you say) a reference to him supposedly being quite portly in the original stories, and his brother making fun of that? Is there more to it?
Oh I give up - there's far too much going on in this current series! I want to know what Redbeard means though, I've been trying to figure it out for days and I just can't.
Damn you Gatiss, damn you
Well apart from the reference to the pirate comics, and the Kurasawa film, I like another poster also noted on Wikipedia that it may also be referring to a British tactical nuclear weapon.
Also Consider the ages of Mycroft and Sherlock, that Sherlock angrily replied to Mycroft that he's not a child anymore, and that the Red Beard tactical nuclear weapon was brought into service between 1962 to 1971.
When you consider the terrorist plot in the first episode, and also the mention that Lord Moran had been working in North Korea, the nuclear weapon theory could be quite compelling.
However it could be something entirely different and may also only become apparent in the final episode.
It may probably be more down less to trying to make Gatiss fit in with the original physical image of Mycroft, and more to do with highlighting Mycroft's insecurity in face of Sherlock's jibes at him asking him how his diet is going.
If there's no significance to a plot, that would be the best explanation for me too in addiion to a wink to the fans of the original.
But I think the the version sherlock gave Anderson was the most plausible theory, I think they jokingly didn't say it was the absolute truth because they didn't want internet detectives picking holes in it because if they had given that as the real truth many fans of the show had guessed this theory already but it does seem the most likely, have to admit I thought rubbish truck filled with soft stuff but that only happens in cartoons and James Bond movies, realistically you would need a proper stunt guy mattress but then the whole why fake his death in front of John but not the sniper guy seems a bit unbelievable
I think they faked his death had an idea of how it was to work out but then saw that people wouldn't believe he jumped off a building that tall into a waiting truck without injury so changed the story after reading people's comments on the internet, they even mentioned the reason they didn't use the van in the show
Sorry for keep going on about this but yes, the theories that Sherlock gave to Anderson were indeed worked out pretty quickly on the Sherlock threads on DS and elsewhere. One of us even ended up in the newspapers where they lifted a direct quote from here regarding the squash ball theory (ahem !) Steven Moffat kept saying that nobody had got it and that there is only one way to break a fall etc. Some on here have said that Moffat doesn't tell the truth a la Doctor Who.... I don't watch Dr Who at all so I'm unfamiliar with that side of him if it's true.
I think I will be disappointed if the theory Sherlock told Anderson is the right one. Why? I don't know, it just looked too easy when we saw it all on screen in The Empty Hearse, and also because we, the fans, had already worked it out much earlier.
And the fact that Sherlock told Anderson and not John gives me hope that there is something more to this. I may have a long wait, though (if I'm reading in between the lines correctly on what is being discussed on here).
I agree. Lots of fun. Not at all important, but lots of fun
Respectfuly disagree (see, i'm not only a positive guy, grrrr!)
If it makes us happy, it is important.
Let's all sing Kumbaya, shall we?
NOT.
Let's go back to the speculations, some wild to have fun, some serious also to have fun.
With all this talk about fun, i'm warming up to the new Sherlock. Why shouldn't he have more fun too!
Re bib. I'm not sure what you mean here. I thought that Watson had said that he didn't want to know how Sherlock did the fall, but why he did it.
At about 1h23m30s of TEH
Watson: Sherlock, you are going to tell me how you did it? How you jumped from that building and survived?
Sherlock: You know my methods John, i'm known to be undestructable!
Watson: no but seriously. (then a bit long to transcribe about how he went to Sherlock's grave and asked him not to be dead).
Sherlock: i heard you. Anyway, time to be Sherlock Holmes! (and smile).
Not saying it is definitive but at the time, i took it that Watson didn't believe the explanation and Sherlock wasn't ready to give him the true story.
Went back and looked at THAT shot of Mary last night. As well as the horns, I also noticed there's a clear Dark and Light side to her face - one side is in almost complete shadow. No DOP worth his salt will have lit her like that for 'no reason', so she's got a dark side.
She's also wearing a top that has thumbs UP and thumbs DOWN, another blatant clue that she's both good and bad in some way.
My prediction is that she will be used to put Holmes, Watson and her in a situation where Holmes has to save either her or Watson and he picks Watson.
All very interesting, especially Mary's top with a thumbs up and thumbs down on it. I hadn't noticed that at all.
I love the discussions about Sherlock on here, and how we can look into and collate the vast symbolism etc. that we are given by the writers. In fact, I can say that the Sherlock threads are my all time favourites on DS.
The whole thing with Mary will not sit right with me either way.
1. She is evil, and not pregnant. That will make Watson heartbroken and sad for many months if not years.
2. She is an angel, and gets killed together with her unborn child. Now, that would make Watson mad with grief and unable to do anything for years, maybe the rest of his life.
3. She is normal, and lives with Watson and has their baby. Nope, don't like that either. I want Watson and Sherlock living together, solving crime.
I have read the books, and know what happens to Mary originally, but she was never a big (if any) part of the crime solving.
I find this very interesting too, and I've seen it mentioned on here a few times now. But how is Mary an angel? I'm not getting that one.
At about 1h23m30s of TEH
Watson: Sherlock, you are going to tell me how you did it? How you jumped from that building and survived?
Sherlock: You know my methods John, i'm known to be undestructable!
Watson: no but seriously. (then a bit long to transcribe about how he went to Sherlock's grave and asked him not to be dead).
Sherlock: i heard you. Anyway, time to be Sherlock Holmes! (and smile).
Not saying it is definitive but at the time, i took it that Watson didn't believe the explanation and Sherlock wasn't ready to give him the true story.
Can I just ask what the number of Sholtos room was again?
We were given two specific camera angles in this scene. In the left side camera action it looked like room 267, and room 207 in the right camera angle.
It may have been deliberate or maybe just the way the light fell on the room number.
It did make me think, though, and reminded me of the sinking feeling I've had since the Reichenbach Fall episode that this is all an illusion. I hope to goodness that I'm totally wrong for even daring to think such a thing.
Agreed, it wouldn't be a problem.
As for missing a body, all they have to do is come up with an urn full of ashes.
Can they analyse ashes for DNA comparison?
It's probably a similar procedure to dusting for vomit.
All very interesting, especially Mary's top with a thumbs up and thumbs down on it. I hadn't noticed that at all.
I love the discussions about Sherlock on here, and how we can look into and collate the vast symbolism etc. that we are given by the writers. In fact, I can say that the Sherlock threads are my all time favourites on DS.
I find this very interesting too, and I've seen it mentioned on here a few times now. But how is Mary an angel? I'm not getting that one.
I didn't notice that either.
Can somebody repost a link to that screencap of it please?
I can't believe people are saying how Sherlock survived doesn't matter. It was the whole cliffhanger, the whole drawing point for series 3, Moffat kept going on about us not having guessed it then 'revealed' it was the theory guessed immediately after the episode by countless fans online! If he doesn't explain it then he has no need to resolve any cliffhanger in the future. This is the equivalent of starting season 2 with John and Sherlock outside the pool going 'crikey, that got hairy for a moment'. It will be explained by the end of episode 3, it has to be.
The airbag theory can't be correct because as many people pointed out its full of holes, and just all very neat, not to mention involving 327 accomplices and the closing down of an entire London street, as well as Molly magically finding a Sherlock lookalike corpse to lie on the ground for 5 seconds to then switch with Sherlock anyway. As theories go, it's the worst of the 'plausible' ones and I think that was the point.
All very interesting, especially Mary's top with a thumbs up and thumbs down on it. I hadn't noticed that at all.
I love the discussions about Sherlock on here, and how we can look into and collate the vast symbolism etc. that we are given by the writers. In fact, I can say that the Sherlock threads are my all time favourites on DS.
I find this very interesting too, and I've seen it mentioned on here a few times now. But how is Mary an angel? I'm not getting that one.
Oh, I only meant that she is almost the perfect woman, kind, loving, a wonderful wife and mother.
In detective fiction, I’m familiar with being given a load of potential clues and red herrings. Actual events which can be misinterpreted, people using phrases which can be interpreted in different ways or people’s expression etc can provide these clues. Then there are events which are recorded and may or may not be significant. We then have an opportunity to try and deduce the answer for ourselves. Then, at the end, when all is explained, we can see how the relevant clues fit together to prove how the events transpired. In the best detective fiction of this type, the pieces of the jigsaw fit together snugly with no other sensible solution.
On here, several people have talked more about symbolism – associated camera angles, apparently obscure props in the background etc. It is not something I tend to notice. Has such symbolism, as opposed to more tangible and what I would call “proper” clues, been used in any of the previous series of Sherlock. I don’t remember any, off the top of my head. Can anyone think of any? Is it actually a method already being used by the writers to foretell the future of the story?
I don't know if your post has been answered yet (haven't caught up yet), but yes, there have been.
For example: in RF episode, these were on the walls:
Eater, I'm specifically looking for the one in the scene in Kitty Riley's flat with Richard Brook. Perhaps someone else can provide a link with a pic? It's also in a post on one of the Sherlock threads here, somewhere.
Maybe Redbeard is a Redherring? Or not.
To be honest I'm Sherlocked out right now, and am starting not to care about any of it.
At the end of ASiB Mycroft tells Watson that Sherlock wanted to be a pirate when he was a child. So maybe "Redbeard" was Mycroft's way of telling Sherlock he was trying to be something he could never be. Or maybe Mycroft was testing to see if Sherlock really is Sherlock. Or maybe its some kind of reference to Irene Adler, (ie, Mycroft's discovered that she's still alive).
Comments
Ah let's not go all Eastenders, please!
Mycroft exercising and checking his belly - isn't that more (as you say) a reference to him supposedly being quite portly in the original stories, and his brother making fun of that? Is there more to it?
Oh I give up - there's far too much going on in this current series! I want to know what Redbeard means though, I've been trying to figure it out for days and I just can't.
Damn you Gatiss, damn you
Maybe Redbeard is a Redherring? Or not.
To be honest I'm Sherlocked out right now, and am starting not to care about any of it.
In the whole scheme of things, I don't think a bodyless funeral would be that hard to arrange. Also, if they used a lookalike as a stand in body for Sherlock, they would still be short of a body when it came to burying the dead look alike.
But so much fun. I admit it makes me very excited. So much that when i go to write for other shows, it has become almost auto-pilot compared to Sherlock.
Sherlock is like a giant 3D chess game like in Star Trek, where Sherlock has regenerated with a bit of Masterchef thrown in when i could say 'watching a tv show doesn't get tougher than this'
Having a ball with this thread
THank you everyone. Of course you're not doing it for me but the result is the same; been a while since i was stimulated like this by a popular tv show.
And given i'm in very good mood with an excellent begining of the year, i wish everyone a happy and fruitful 15th year of the 21st century
Agreed, it wouldn't be a problem.
As for missing a body, all they have to do is come up with an urn full of ashes.
Can they analyse ashes for DNA comparison?
Re bib. I'm not sure what you mean here. I thought that Watson had said that he didn't want to know how Sherlock did the fall, but why he did it.
It may probably be more down less to trying to make Gatiss fit in with the original physical image of Mycroft, and more to do with highlighting Mycroft's insecurity in face of Sherlock's jibes at him asking him how his diet is going.
I agree. Lots of fun. Not at all important, but lots of fun
A Fairy Story I think about a King Redbeard who didn't really die but stayed hidden in a mountain until needed. Sherlock didn't die but hid until he was needed by Mycroft.
Well apart from the reference to the pirate comics, and the Kurasawa film, I like another poster also noted on Wikipedia that it may also be referring to a British tactical nuclear weapon.
Also Consider the ages of Mycroft and Sherlock, that Sherlock angrily replied to Mycroft that he's not a child anymore, and that the Red Beard tactical nuclear weapon was brought into service between 1962 to 1971.
When you consider the terrorist plot in the first episode, and also the mention that Lord Moran had been working in North Korea, the nuclear weapon theory could be quite compelling.
However it could be something entirely different and may also only become apparent in the final episode.
If there's no significance to a plot, that would be the best explanation for me too in addiion to a wink to the fans of the original.
Sorry for keep going on about this but yes, the theories that Sherlock gave to Anderson were indeed worked out pretty quickly on the Sherlock threads on DS and elsewhere. One of us even ended up in the newspapers where they lifted a direct quote from here regarding the squash ball theory (ahem
I think I will be disappointed if the theory Sherlock told Anderson is the right one. Why? I don't know, it just looked too easy when we saw it all on screen in The Empty Hearse, and also because we, the fans, had already worked it out much earlier.
And the fact that Sherlock told Anderson and not John gives me hope that there is something more to this. I may have a long wait, though
Respectfuly disagree (see, i'm not only a positive guy, grrrr!)
If it makes us happy, it is important.
Let's all sing Kumbaya, shall we?
NOT.
Let's go back to the speculations, some wild to have fun, some serious also to have fun.
With all this talk about fun, i'm warming up to the new Sherlock. Why shouldn't he have more fun too!
At about 1h23m30s of TEH
Watson: Sherlock, you are going to tell me how you did it? How you jumped from that building and survived?
Sherlock: You know my methods John, i'm known to be undestructable!
Watson: no but seriously. (then a bit long to transcribe about how he went to Sherlock's grave and asked him not to be dead).
Sherlock: i heard you. Anyway, time to be Sherlock Holmes! (and smile).
Not saying it is definitive but at the time, i took it that Watson didn't believe the explanation and Sherlock wasn't ready to give him the true story.
All very interesting, especially Mary's top with a thumbs up and thumbs down on it. I hadn't noticed that at all.
I love the discussions about Sherlock on here, and how we can look into and collate the vast symbolism etc. that we are given by the writers. In fact, I can say that the Sherlock threads are my all time favourites on DS.
I find this very interesting too, and I've seen it mentioned on here a few times now. But how is Mary an angel? I'm not getting that one.
Thanks, I'd missed that.
We were given two specific camera angles in this scene. In the left side camera action it looked like room 267, and room 207 in the right camera angle.
It may have been deliberate or maybe just the way the light fell on the room number.
It's probably a similar procedure to dusting for vomit.
:eek:
Nooo. Please don't make my brain explode.
I can't find the direct quote for this BUT:
I didn't notice that either.
Can somebody repost a link to that screencap of it please?
The airbag theory can't be correct because as many people pointed out its full of holes, and just all very neat, not to mention involving 327 accomplices and the closing down of an entire London street, as well as Molly magically finding a Sherlock lookalike corpse to lie on the ground for 5 seconds to then switch with Sherlock anyway. As theories go, it's the worst of the 'plausible' ones and I think that was the point.
Oh, I only meant that she is almost the perfect woman, kind, loving, a wonderful wife and mother.
I don't know if your post has been answered yet (haven't caught up yet), but yes, there have been.
For example: in RF episode, these were on the walls:
ETA: links don't work.
ETA2: Here's one of them:
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/64880050854538924/
Eater, I'm specifically looking for the one in the scene in Kitty Riley's flat with Richard Brook. Perhaps someone else can provide a link with a pic? It's also in a post on one of the Sherlock threads here, somewhere.
At the end of ASiB Mycroft tells Watson that Sherlock wanted to be a pirate when he was a child. So maybe "Redbeard" was Mycroft's way of telling Sherlock he was trying to be something he could never be. Or maybe Mycroft was testing to see if Sherlock really is Sherlock. Or maybe its some kind of reference to Irene Adler, (ie, Mycroft's discovered that she's still alive).
Or more likely, none of the above.