I also loved Sacha's putting down of Bonnie - spelling out how bad it would have made Jac feel, that it can happen to any parent no matter how loving or devoted (not many more loving or devoted than Sacha) and obliquely labeling Bonnie a stranger to Emma.
Again, and I guess we're all projecting our own feelings onto the characters here, I didn't see Sacha's remarks as being him taking a pro-Jac anti-Bonnie stance, subtly or otherwise.I agree that he was sympathising with Jac and wanted to make the point that it's something that happens to all parents and doesn't reflect on her abilities as a mother, but I'm not sure that necessarily translates as a desire to burst Bonnie's bubble.
The best line for me was the anal cyst patient when he said to Guy Self (in his no-nonsense Northern accent) "so you can do brains but you can't do bums" - laughed out loud at that one.
Do you think that Jonny, Bonnie and Elliot were supposed to be able to hear what she said to Sacha as well as just see them? They were certainly paying enough attention. I'd like to think it would make them more sympathetic, getting an insight into how she feels (though anyone with half a brain might figure it out anyway) and maybe Jonny was trying at the end and Bonnie had the sense to make herself scarce but I can't help thinking that if it got nastier, it could be used against her. Even she admits she can't do it so the baby would be better off with us scenario.
I think they could hear what she was saying, I don't think the camera would have specifically cut to them otherwise, but their reactions were, well, nothing. If they did hear Jac coming out with all this self-doubt and insecurity, I would've thought that there may have been looks of guilt or sympathy (especially from Jonny)on their faces. Instead they just seemed to stare blankly, so there was no way to gauge what they were thinking/feeling about what Jac said.
Again, and I guess we're all projecting our own feelings onto the characters here, I didn't see Sacha's remarks as being him taking a pro-Jac anti-Bonnie stance, subtly or otherwise.I agree that he was sympathising with Jac and wanted to make the point that it's something that happens to all parents and doesn't reflect on her abilities as a mother, but I'm not sure that necessarily translates as a desire to burst Bonnie's bubble.
As you say, perception and i'm not sure he actually wanted to upset Bonnie but maybe try to subtly suggest they not go on about it as Jac would already be feeling bad enough that it happened without it being the main topic of conversation at the party - should she arrive.
Aside from 'it just happens' there are several practical reasons that Emma might have started crying. Jac had just been running to make the appointment so maybe her body temperature was raised or her heart beating too fast which Emma felt or heard? I know Jac said she wasn't breast feeding but she was expressing milk a few weeks ago - if she is still producing Emma might have smelt it and wanted feeding?
Yes, Jac has always been shown to have a way with babies in the past - Daisha's Joe, Daniel, even the one that came in with her Mum a few months ago. Indeed Emma was fine the fast time she held her whereas she'd cried when given to Jonny. Just one of those things. I do find it utterly bizarre that she was passed to Bonnie though rather than at least Jonny trying to hold her. I have never been to a Christening where one of the parents or Vicar didn't hold the child through the service no matter how much noise they make.
I think they could hear what she was saying, I don't think the camera would have specifically cut to them otherwise, but their reactions were, well, nothing. If they did hear Jac coming out with all this self-doubt and insecurity, I would've thought that there may have been looks of guilt or sympathy (especially from Jonny)on their faces. Instead they just seemed to stare blankly, so there was no way to gauge what they were thinking/feeling about what Jac said.
I did think Jonny looked a tad concerned / guilty and also when he said he didn't know where she was when asked by Elliot. Perhaps he was trying to genuinely help at the end because of over hearing that conversation (as I say, at least Bonnie didn't go with him to talk to Jac which showed some consideration) but he went the wrong way about it - as he seems to be doing everything these days.
I think I said this yesterday but he really needs to start thinking about why Jac is willing to talk to Elliot, Sacha, even Mo but not him and wondering how and why they've got to that stage and whether his actions and attitude have caused it. He said it is okay to ask for help - she is doing, at least emotional help from people - just not him because she obviously no longer trusts him.
I did think Jonny looked a tad concerned / guilty and also when he said he didn't know where she was when asked by Elliot. Perhaps he was trying to genuinely help at the end because of over hearing that conversation (as I say, at least Bonnie didn't go with him to talk to Jac which showed some consideration) but he went the wrong way about it - as he seems to be doing everything these days
I think I said this yesterday but he really needs to start thinking about why Jac is willing to talk to Elliot, Sacha, even Mo but not him and wondering how and why they've got to that stage and whether his actions and attitude have caused it. He said it is okay to ask for help - she is doing, at least emotional help from people - just not him because she obviously no longer trusts him.
What annoys me is the way he's acting like her attitude/behaviour is totally new to him. Way before Bonnie was on the scene, he knew Jac's personality and it used to amuse him a lot because he knew there was underlying softness and feeling in her. Jac's not the easiest person to handle at the best of times and he knows this, yet it seems he's deliberately setting her off these days; but then gets all confused when she reacts badly to him. Their whole dynamic's been all over the place for ages, but this is on another level. Jonny's not stupid, he knows what'll create tension and conflict but he allows it to happen anyway. Why? Is it deliberate loss of self-awareness or what? I can't gt my head around the change in character at all
So where is the lovely Clovers review then please?
Has she posted it already? Please can somebody post a link to it?
Thank you! I just love reading her blog on the episode, Such an awesome read!
I don't think it has been done yet - she always posts a link to it herself on here as soon as it's ready. It's quite possible she hasn't seen it or been able to write the review yet if she was out last night or busy today.
What annoys me is the way he's acting like her attitude/behaviour is totally new to him. Way before Bonnie was on the scene, he knew Jac's personality and it used to amuse him a lot because he knew there was underlying softness and feeling in her. Jac's not the easiest person to handle at the best of times and he knows this, yet it seems he's deliberately setting her off these days; but then gets all confused when she reacts badly to him. Their whole dynamic's been all over the place for ages, but this is on another level. Jonny's not stupid, he knows what'll create tension and conflict but he allows it to happen anyway. Why? Is it deliberate loss of self-awareness or what? I can't gt my head around the change in character at all
I totally agree - i've been saying ths same thing over on the Jac thread for months now. I'm reminded of the Dusty Springfield lyric "it wasn't me who changed but you". Jac is exactly the same as she has always been with him (except now more hurt, vulnerable and nervous) - it is his reaction to her which has changed (which seems really unfair to me) seemingly just because bonnie turned up and along with those annoying relatives commented on Jac's manner and saying he's under the thumb. The worm then turned but what he has failed to realise is he's now just under Bonnie's influence instead!
As you say he used to just find her ways funny, entertaining, endearing and a challenge - he just used to laugh at her 'me doctor, you girlie nurse" stuff and banter (in a nice way) back. Which I think is what caught her interest. Now, it is as though he despised everything about her.
I hate to blame Kent for everything but it does seem like this personality change coincided with the change of EP. Strikes me that his way of adding 'spice' to the Janny baby plot was to turn it into a triangle so they introduce Bonnie and start making Jonny behave in a completely different way to his established character - at least toward Jac and even sometimes Patients. He's always been friendly, unjudgemental but kept his counsel, now he gossips, speaks out of turn, is abrupt with Patients (remember how short he was with that teenage boy who used his heart condition to get stuff off his Mum) and just not very nice.
I womder what Michael Thomson feels about it? I do think he is sometimes trying to play it more sympathetically than it is written - the odd glance in Jac's direction.
Yeah, Bonnie definitely seems to be the driving force now. It could be a case of frying pan, fire. Admittedly, there were times when I thought Jac's harshness towards Jonny was a bit OTT and I could see why he'd get fed up/snap, but now it almost seems as if he's retro-actively paying her back her for her behaviour in the past. Then, at other times, he seems understanding and more willing to ease up on Jac. The dynamic is really messy and confusing, but the inconsistency of their relationship has been an issue for a while anyway.
It's all gone too much down the soap route where personality transplants are handed out like sweets. I always wonder how actors feel when their character is changed so much so quickly. I imagine if asked MT would have to stay loyal and justify Jonny's behaviour in whatever way necessary, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's a bit peeved about the direction the whole story has taken.
I can't speak about the EP (because I'm not aware of him at all!!) but I definitely feel that something has changed with Holby, for the worse too. It could just be going through a bad patch and it will pick up again, but recently it's lost its mojo. Whether that's down to the changes at the top, I suppose it makes sense. Just look at EE!
I don't think Jonny has had a personality transplant at all. As is generally quite well-known on here, I have seen this side of him for the whole time he has been in the show, though the other viewers don't seem to be noticing it until now. I won't pretend that we haven't seen any change in him; the more unpleasant side of him has definitely come to the forefront a lot more now than it was. I tend to think that no one is inherently good or bad, we all have different sides to us, some people see more of one side than the other and sometimes something happens to make a different side take dominance. I feel that in this case, Bonnie's presence is the catalyst for that side of Jonny to take over - certain individuals have an effect on you and make you behave in another way, even if they're not doing it deliberately. I don't think that Jonny is even aware of it. But as I have said, that side of him has always been there; as it happens, that has been the side of him that I have always seen of him, though I appreciate that I'm one of the few on this thread. The more fun, relatable side of him hasn't gone, it's just a little bit dormant. I think that that is very true to life actually.
One other thing that annoyed me about this episode (we were actually having a discussion about this on the Casualty thread recently) - I have been watching Holby City since 2008, and Jac's patient was the third patient since then who has been played by Tilly Gaunt. It very much irritates me when actors are re-used in different roles so close to the last occasion that they were in it. It's fine if it is so much later that the actor has aged enough for them to justifiably be someone different, but I find it frustrating that they honestly expect us to believe that there are this many people in Holby who look so similar to one another. If they have to bring actors back because of limited number of people available, they should bring them back in the same role as before. (That said, in the case of Tilly Gaunt, I was hoping that they'd cast her as Linden's wife Olivia in the flashbacks, as her first appearance on the show was as a patient who reminded him of his wife so that would have showed good continuity, but they cast someone else who looked nothing like her.)
So where is the lovely Clovers review then please?
Has she posted it already? Please can somebody post a link to it?
Thank you! I just love reading her blog on the episode, Such an awesome read!
Awww, thank you frenchie21! I had to go out to my daughter's parents' evening at school last night (why are these school things always on a Tuesday? Do they not realise that it's Holby night???) so I'm a bit behind. Will try to get it done ASAP and will post the link here when it's up.
I did think Jonny looked a tad concerned / guilty and also when he said he didn't know where she was when asked by Elliot. Perhaps he was trying to genuinely help at the end because of over hearing that conversation (as I say, at least Bonnie didn't go with him to talk to Jac which showed some consideration) but he went the wrong way about it - as he seems to be doing everything these days.
I think I said this yesterday but he really needs to start thinking about why Jac is willing to talk to Elliot, Sacha, even Mo but not him and wondering how and why they've got to that stage and whether his actions and attitude have caused it. He said it is okay to ask for help - she is doing, at least emotional help from people - just not him because she obviously no longer trusts him.
I do think he was being genuine there."You can't do everything":I think he was trying to say that if she goes on trying to be the perfect doctor and perfect mother on her own then she'll fail at both, she needs to trust other people to keep an eye on one while she focuses on the other.I think his offer to stay with Emma was more about letting her go home, recharge her batteries and approach tomorrow as a new day rather than an attempt to force her out.
I do think he was being genuine there."You can't do everything":I think he was trying to say that if she goes on trying to be the perfect doctor and perfect mother on her own then she'll fail at both, she needs to trust other people to keep an eye on one while she focuses on the other.I think his offer to stay with Emma was more about letting her go home, recharge her batteries and approach tomorrow as a new day rather than an attempt to force her out.
You really don't like having spaces in between sentences, do you?
I do think he was being genuine there."You can't do everything":I think he was trying to say that if she goes on trying to be the perfect doctor and perfect mother on her own then she'll fail at both, she needs to trust other people to keep an eye on one while she focuses on the other.I think his offer to stay with Emma was more about letting her go home, recharge her batteries and approach tomorrow as a new day rather than an attempt to force her out.
I don't think he was deliberately trying to force her out either but surely he'd realise that it could be misconstrued - especially after the day's events. The fact is that he has constantly been attacking her for not spending time with Emma, not bonding both to her face and behind her back (which she probably knows anout - she keeps her ear to the ground) so of course she might be suspicious that there was an ultrior motive. I would be if I were in her shoes. Plus, she just might not want Bonnie spending time with Emma in her place, especially when she'd already seemed to prefer her at the Christening and you'd think that Jonny would have enough basic understanding of human nature to consider that.
Unfortunately, he has spent so much time attacking and beratingher recently, she's not going to respond to him even shen he tried to help whereas she will with other people like Sacha and Elliot. She will show weakness, allow people to help her but not him because she no longer trusts him.
They really need to do an episode where Jac walks on water.Her comment to Elliot about his daughter, "at least she had a dad" was damn out of order when all he was doing was trying to give her some real world parenting advice based on his own short-comings. If anyone had said to her "at least you had a mom", the forum would be in uproar
Serena was spot on in what she said to Saucer, bout time someone did.
The northern blockage dude was funny as hell. Best patient in ages. He's a builder so they should get him a recurring role as a maintenance contractor. He was pure comedy gold.
Was glad Harry got one over on Dr Arrogant. he can take his world wide medical advances and use them on the moon for all I care, the dingbat.
They really need to do an episode where Jac walks on water.Her comment to Elliot about his daughter, "at least she had a dad" was damn out of order when all he was doing was trying to give her some real world parenting advice based on his own short-comings. If anyone had said to her "at least you had a mom", the forum would be in uproar.
She barely did have a mum though; her mum hardly bothered with her and put her into care. Okay, she technically had one, but biologically she must have had a dad as well. Emotionally, she had no parents. Her point to Elliot was that whilst he may not have spent as much time with his children as he maybe should have done, he did live with them and at least spend enough time with them for them to know who he was, and for them to have an emotional relationship. You can't seriously compare Elliot to Jac's mum.
They really need to do an episode where Jac walks on water.Her comment to Elliot about his daughter, "at least she had a dad" was damn out of order when all he was doing was trying to give her some real world parenting advice based on his own short-comings. If anyone had said to her "at least you had a mom", the forum would be in uproar
Serena was spot on in what she said to Saucer, bout time someone did.
The northern blockage dude was funny as hell. Best patient in ages. He's a builder so they should get him a recurring role as a maintenance contractor. He was pure comedy gold.
Was glad Harry got one over on Dr Arrogant. he can take his world wide medical advances and use them on the moon for all I care, the dingbat.
Nobody thinks Jac walks on water. A few of us just sympathize with her feelings towards Emma and than Jonny and Bonnie are (intentionally or not) making her feel worse about everything. I've yet to see anyone that thinks it was okay for Jac to decide to do the OP and risk missing the Christening.
If that comment had been made about her mother there would be uproar because she didn't have one from the age of 12 and apparently was also abandoned on the day of her birth, I assume coming back later. Also that even when her mother was around she wasn't supportive - either emotionally or financially.
I agree that Elliot was trying to dispense good, personal wisdom and she could have taken it in better grace but I saw her point. Having a father in your life when growing up, even if you didn't get to see him during the week is very different to not having one at all. I didn't see much of my father during the week due to his job and long commute but I had him at the weekends and I had the comfort and security his employment brought the family and a mother in the house with me providing care. Very different to not having a father at all, having a mother who was prone to abandoning you and had virtually no money (as we've previously been told).
That Northern patient was fantastic and I agree that Zosia needed to be asked to consider Guy's situation and feelings.
She barely did have a mum though; her mum hardly bothered with her and put her into care. Okay, she technically had one, but biologically she must have had a dad as well. Emotionally, she had no parents. Her point to Elliot was that whilst he may not have spent as much time with his children as he maybe should have done, he did live with them and at least spend enough time with them for them to know who he was, and for them to have an emotional relationship. You can't seriously compare Elliot to Jac's mum.
They really need to do an episode where Jac walks on water.Her comment to Elliot about his daughter, "at least she had a dad" was damn out of order when all he was doing was trying to give her some real world parenting advice based on his own short-comings. If anyone had said to her "at least you had a mom", the forum would be in uproar
Serena was spot on in what she said to Saucer, bout time someone did.
The northern blockage dude was funny as hell. Best patient in ages. He's a builder so they should get him a recurring role as a maintenance contractor. He was pure comedy gold.
Was glad Harry got one over on Dr Arrogant. he can take his world wide medical advances and use them on the moon for all I care, the dingbat.
BIB - I really didn't think Jac was doing anything here other than pointing out that she personally would have been happy to have had a dad like Elliot, even if all she got was headlights on the ceilings on weeknights. My interpretation was that Jac thought that if Emma got that much, she'd be doing ok. I didn't think she was being smart or rude to Elliot at all - so funny how we all have our own take on things.
And much as I love Jac, I don't think she walks on water at all. She's flawed, most definitely. Sometimes she says or does things that make my heart sink, but overall I can forgive her for them because I do believe that she is a decent person who has had a hard life and just can't trust people enough to let them in. Her default position is ice queen and sarcastic/rude but that is her defence mechanism to survive in this world. We all have them.
I totally agree about Raf, though. I thought he had potential in his first episode but I went right off him in this one. He is coming across as very up himself.
And I loved the northern patient too - he was very funny!
Can;t understand why people are so forgiving of Harry. This wasn't the first time he caused needless suffering. Necrotising fasciitis spreads very fast, and we never discovered how much of her leg that poor woman had to lose, thanks to his slapdash doctoring.
I think Harry is a poor excuse for a doctor, and for a human being to boot. I've never taken to him.
People feel sorry for him because of the way Raf is treating him, which, I agree is not very well. But it only makes me dislike Raf as well as Harry, it does not make me suddenly think Harry is not so bad.
What he did to both the leg ulcer lady and the obese girl was very wrong. I think the obese girl with the crush on him will be back again, so he may still get his come-uppence for his shabby treatment of her - I hope he does, anyway.
Can;t understand why people are so forgiving of Harry. This wasn't the first time he caused needless suffering. Necrotising fasciitis spreads very fast, and we never discovered how much of her leg that poor woman had to lose, thanks to his slapdash doctoring.
Harry / 'W'Ollie
Good looking posh boys - the ladies are suckers for em !
Comments
Where is Clovers review? It always brightens my day up whenever I read it. She truly does have a great way of storytelling! It is an awesome read
I think they could hear what she was saying, I don't think the camera would have specifically cut to them otherwise, but their reactions were, well, nothing. If they did hear Jac coming out with all this self-doubt and insecurity, I would've thought that there may have been looks of guilt or sympathy (especially from Jonny)on their faces. Instead they just seemed to stare blankly, so there was no way to gauge what they were thinking/feeling about what Jac said.
As you say, perception and i'm not sure he actually wanted to upset Bonnie but maybe try to subtly suggest they not go on about it as Jac would already be feeling bad enough that it happened without it being the main topic of conversation at the party - should she arrive.
Aside from 'it just happens' there are several practical reasons that Emma might have started crying. Jac had just been running to make the appointment so maybe her body temperature was raised or her heart beating too fast which Emma felt or heard? I know Jac said she wasn't breast feeding but she was expressing milk a few weeks ago - if she is still producing Emma might have smelt it and wanted feeding?
Yes, Jac has always been shown to have a way with babies in the past - Daisha's Joe, Daniel, even the one that came in with her Mum a few months ago. Indeed Emma was fine the fast time she held her whereas she'd cried when given to Jonny. Just one of those things. I do find it utterly bizarre that she was passed to Bonnie though rather than at least Jonny trying to hold her. I have never been to a Christening where one of the parents or Vicar didn't hold the child through the service no matter how much noise they make.
I did think Jonny looked a tad concerned / guilty and also when he said he didn't know where she was when asked by Elliot. Perhaps he was trying to genuinely help at the end because of over hearing that conversation (as I say, at least Bonnie didn't go with him to talk to Jac which showed some consideration) but he went the wrong way about it - as he seems to be doing everything these days.
I think I said this yesterday but he really needs to start thinking about why Jac is willing to talk to Elliot, Sacha, even Mo but not him and wondering how and why they've got to that stage and whether his actions and attitude have caused it. He said it is okay to ask for help - she is doing, at least emotional help from people - just not him because she obviously no longer trusts him.
What annoys me is the way he's acting like her attitude/behaviour is totally new to him. Way before Bonnie was on the scene, he knew Jac's personality and it used to amuse him a lot because he knew there was underlying softness and feeling in her. Jac's not the easiest person to handle at the best of times and he knows this, yet it seems he's deliberately setting her off these days; but then gets all confused when she reacts badly to him. Their whole dynamic's been all over the place for ages, but this is on another level. Jonny's not stupid, he knows what'll create tension and conflict but he allows it to happen anyway. Why? Is it deliberate loss of self-awareness or what? I can't gt my head around the change in character at all
Has she posted it already? Please can somebody post a link to it?
Thank you! I just love reading her blog on the episode, Such an awesome read!
I don't think it has been done yet - she always posts a link to it herself on here as soon as it's ready. It's quite possible she hasn't seen it or been able to write the review yet if she was out last night or busy today.
It'll be coming soon i'm sure x
I totally agree - i've been saying ths same thing over on the Jac thread for months now. I'm reminded of the Dusty Springfield lyric "it wasn't me who changed but you". Jac is exactly the same as she has always been with him (except now more hurt, vulnerable and nervous) - it is his reaction to her which has changed (which seems really unfair to me) seemingly just because bonnie turned up and along with those annoying relatives commented on Jac's manner and saying he's under the thumb. The worm then turned but what he has failed to realise is he's now just under Bonnie's influence instead!
As you say he used to just find her ways funny, entertaining, endearing and a challenge - he just used to laugh at her 'me doctor, you girlie nurse" stuff and banter (in a nice way) back. Which I think is what caught her interest. Now, it is as though he despised everything about her.
I hate to blame Kent for everything but it does seem like this personality change coincided with the change of EP. Strikes me that his way of adding 'spice' to the Janny baby plot was to turn it into a triangle so they introduce Bonnie and start making Jonny behave in a completely different way to his established character - at least toward Jac and even sometimes Patients. He's always been friendly, unjudgemental but kept his counsel, now he gossips, speaks out of turn, is abrupt with Patients (remember how short he was with that teenage boy who used his heart condition to get stuff off his Mum) and just not very nice.
I womder what Michael Thomson feels about it? I do think he is sometimes trying to play it more sympathetically than it is written - the odd glance in Jac's direction.
It's all gone too much down the soap route where personality transplants are handed out like sweets. I always wonder how actors feel when their character is changed so much so quickly. I imagine if asked MT would have to stay loyal and justify Jonny's behaviour in whatever way necessary, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's a bit peeved about the direction the whole story has taken.
I can't speak about the EP (because I'm not aware of him at all!!) but I definitely feel that something has changed with Holby, for the worse too. It could just be going through a bad patch and it will pick up again, but recently it's lost its mojo. Whether that's down to the changes at the top, I suppose it makes sense. Just look at EE!
One other thing that annoyed me about this episode (we were actually having a discussion about this on the Casualty thread recently) - I have been watching Holby City since 2008, and Jac's patient was the third patient since then who has been played by Tilly Gaunt. It very much irritates me when actors are re-used in different roles so close to the last occasion that they were in it. It's fine if it is so much later that the actor has aged enough for them to justifiably be someone different, but I find it frustrating that they honestly expect us to believe that there are this many people in Holby who look so similar to one another. If they have to bring actors back because of limited number of people available, they should bring them back in the same role as before. (That said, in the case of Tilly Gaunt, I was hoping that they'd cast her as Linden's wife Olivia in the flashbacks, as her first appearance on the show was as a patient who reminded him of his wife so that would have showed good continuity, but they cast someone else who looked nothing like her.)
Awww, thank you frenchie21!
Bonnie is an annoyance!
You really don't like having spaces in between sentences, do you?
I don't think he was deliberately trying to force her out either but surely he'd realise that it could be misconstrued - especially after the day's events. The fact is that he has constantly been attacking her for not spending time with Emma, not bonding both to her face and behind her back (which she probably knows anout - she keeps her ear to the ground) so of course she might be suspicious that there was an ultrior motive. I would be if I were in her shoes. Plus, she just might not want Bonnie spending time with Emma in her place, especially when she'd already seemed to prefer her at the Christening and you'd think that Jonny would have enough basic understanding of human nature to consider that.
Unfortunately, he has spent so much time attacking and beratingher recently, she's not going to respond to him even shen he tried to help whereas she will with other people like Sacha and Elliot. She will show weakness, allow people to help her but not him because she no longer trusts him.
Serena was spot on in what she said to Saucer, bout time someone did.
The northern blockage dude was funny as hell. Best patient in ages. He's a builder so they should get him a recurring role as a maintenance contractor. He was pure comedy gold.
Was glad Harry got one over on Dr Arrogant. he can take his world wide medical advances and use them on the moon for all I care, the dingbat.
She barely did have a mum though; her mum hardly bothered with her and put her into care. Okay, she technically had one, but biologically she must have had a dad as well. Emotionally, she had no parents. Her point to Elliot was that whilst he may not have spent as much time with his children as he maybe should have done, he did live with them and at least spend enough time with them for them to know who he was, and for them to have an emotional relationship. You can't seriously compare Elliot to Jac's mum.
Nobody thinks Jac walks on water. A few of us just sympathize with her feelings towards Emma and than Jonny and Bonnie are (intentionally or not) making her feel worse about everything. I've yet to see anyone that thinks it was okay for Jac to decide to do the OP and risk missing the Christening.
If that comment had been made about her mother there would be uproar because she didn't have one from the age of 12 and apparently was also abandoned on the day of her birth, I assume coming back later. Also that even when her mother was around she wasn't supportive - either emotionally or financially.
I agree that Elliot was trying to dispense good, personal wisdom and she could have taken it in better grace but I saw her point. Having a father in your life when growing up, even if you didn't get to see him during the week is very different to not having one at all. I didn't see much of my father during the week due to his job and long commute but I had him at the weekends and I had the comfort and security his employment brought the family and a mother in the house with me providing care. Very different to not having a father at all, having a mother who was prone to abandoning you and had virtually no money (as we've previously been told).
That Northern patient was fantastic and I agree that Zosia needed to be asked to consider Guy's situation and feelings.
Seconded.
BIB - I really didn't think Jac was doing anything here other than pointing out that she personally would have been happy to have had a dad like Elliot, even if all she got was headlights on the ceilings on weeknights. My interpretation was that Jac thought that if Emma got that much, she'd be doing ok. I didn't think she was being smart or rude to Elliot at all - so funny how we all have our own take on things.
And much as I love Jac, I don't think she walks on water at all. She's flawed, most definitely. Sometimes she says or does things that make my heart sink, but overall I can forgive her for them because I do believe that she is a decent person who has had a hard life and just can't trust people enough to let them in. Her default position is ice queen and sarcastic/rude but that is her defence mechanism to survive in this world. We all have them.
I totally agree about Raf, though. I thought he had potential in his first episode but I went right off him in this one. He is coming across as very up himself.
And I loved the northern patient too - he was very funny!
People feel sorry for him because of the way Raf is treating him, which, I agree is not very well. But it only makes me dislike Raf as well as Harry, it does not make me suddenly think Harry is not so bad.
What he did to both the leg ulcer lady and the obese girl was very wrong. I think the obese girl with the crush on him will be back again, so he may still get his come-uppence for his shabby treatment of her - I hope he does, anyway.
Harry / 'W'Ollie
Good looking posh boys - the ladies are suckers for em !