Not the devil incarnate. Just the eighties Labour version of what Bill Cash has been to the Tories overthe past couple of decades.
Not often I see Bill Cash being bigged up...
I agree they are both intransigent characters but Cash isn't in Benn's league (nowhere near) and while I have endless questions over Cash's motives, few politicians have ever stuck quite so solidly to their principles as Benn.
Perhaps given the above you will then understand why there are many of us who felt the same way about Margaret Thatcher (although I hold that distinct from the abuse she received from some quarters).
Of course.
Generally I think when someone dies you don't like you should shut up. I don't respect celebrating death, misery or the sadness of others. But neither do I the hypocrisy of changing your mind when someone dies.
In any democracy you need both those who are willing to compromise and those that are prepared to argue their own beliefs until the end. If you only have the first then you have a political process with no principles and if you only have the latter you have no political process at all.
Out of interest Flagpole - do you think it's fundamentally wrong for someone to be a Socialist?
No. I don't think it's wrong to have any particular view.
Generally I think when someone dies you don't like you should shut up. I don't respect celebrating death, misery or the sadness of others. But neither do I the hypocrisy of changing your mind when someone dies.
I agree - and times change.
When it came to the death of Lady Thatcher, I was very easily able to put in the modern context of believing that Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron/Clegg had all quite shockingly been far more detrimental to this country.
A strange man. He believed in democracy and saw the EU for what it was, but also supported Irish fascism. He believed in making up the ordinary people better off, but squandered billions (in today's money) on Concorde.
It is depressing to think that few of today's politicians are in the same league.
Indeed i wish Tony Benn all the best in october 2013 i saw Tony Benn in Norwich he spoke very well although quite frail.
I saw Tony Benn some 40 years ago. I spoke to him, I asked him questions. I found him no less duplicitous than other politicians.
One thing a lot of people who celebrate Margaret Thatchers convictions forget is that Tony Benn was a conviction politician wether you agreed with him or not,convictions are something very lacking in todays politicians.
Both had far less convictions than they'd have people believe.
He also flew a Hurricane in WW2 so he is one of a few left.
I'm morte for mourning those who were killed and injured during the war, whatever their role.
I am glad i saw him in october last year.
I'm glad I saw him back in the seventies for what he was.
And another thing if it had not been for Tony Benn intervening Concorde would probably have not been developed.
I agree they are both intransigent characters but Cash isn't in Benn's league (nowhere near) and while I have endless questions over Cash's motives, few politicians have ever stuck quite so solidly to their principles as Benn.
Comparing Tony Benn to Bill Cash is akin to comparing Oprah to Christine Bleakley.
I saw Tony Benn some 40 years ago. I spoke to him, I asked him questions. I found him no less duplicitous than other politicians.
Both had far less convictions than they'd have people believe.
I'm morte for mourning those who were killed and injured during the war, whatever their role.
I'm glad I saw him back in the seventies for what he was.
Where on earth did you get that impression?
The Concorde project was well advanced when Tony Benn became aviation minister in 1968, but he then played a major part in keeping it on track when the Treasury wanted to cancel it because of spiralling costs. Here he recalls the political battle to get Concorde into the air, and his own flights on it.
The Guardian, Friday 17 October 2003
Source
In answer to allaorta post 33 where said poster asked about Tony Benns involvement in the concorde project.without any obvious research.
That's right, it is my opinion, which is a bit more informed than yours I would say. ;-)
Much to simplistic to say religion is the cause of conflict in Ireland.
Bear in mind about half of Catholics would vote to remain within the UK
Why is your opinion more informed then mime after all opinions are personal things,?
Maybe simplistic please explain why certaInly most of the opinions of the DUP seem to be based on such, with the former firebrand Rev Ian Paisley at the helm.
But i fear we may need another thread, suffice to say i agreed with Tony Benn on a united Ireland,in the interest of respect i respectfully suggest we leave it there.:)
But i fear we may need another thread, suffice to say i agreed with Tony Benn on a united Ireland,in the interest of respect i respectfully suggest we leave it there.:)
Fair enough Richard, already said it should not be derailed any further.
Though I feel I need to reply to misinformed posts.
The Concorde project was well advanced when Tony Benn became aviation minister in 1968, but he then played a major part in keeping it on track when the Treasury wanted to cancel it because of spiralling costs. Here he recalls the political battle to get Concorde into the air, and his own flights on it.
Tony Benn was never aviation minister. His responsibility for Concorde was as Minister of Technology, a position he took in 1966. At that time, Concorde was barely well advanced. Given the choice, Benn would never have entered into the Concorde deal....or at least that's what he told me and the rest of an audience; it was one of the matters I questioned him on.
The Guardian, Friday 17 October 2003
Write to The Guardian and tell them they got it wrong.
In answer to allaorta post 33 where said poster asked about Tony Benns involvement in the concorde project.without any obvious research.
I didn't need to research it, I was fully aware of the Concord project and the fact that it was a commercial disaster.
The man had his principles and he stuck to them, good on him I say.
But arguing over a sick man, that's just disgusting, almost as bad as the vermin that attacked Thatcher at her death.
People should have some respect.
why? bearing in mind that you have just called everyone in this thread disgusting.
why should we have some respect? does having respect mean not discussing the man at all? only saying nice things about him? what does respect mean to you?
A strange man. He believed in democracy and saw the EU for what it was, but also supported Irish fascism. He believed in making up the ordinary people better off, but squandered billions (in today's money) on Concorde.
It is depressing to think that few of today's politicians are in the same league.
Yes of course they do whatever made you think they would not D/S is a forum for individual views i have given mine yours differ possibly i do not know which is what the politics forum is all about.:)
Tony Benn was never aviation minister. His responsibility for Concorde was as Minister of Technology, a position he took in 1966. At that time, Concorde was barely well advanced. Given the choice, Benn would never have entered into the Concorde deal....or at least that's what he told me and the rest of an audience; it was one of the matters I questioned him on.
Write to The Guardian and tell them they got it wrong.
I didn't need to research it, I was fully aware of the Concord project and the fact that it was a commercial disaster.
No concorde was not a commercial disaster the B/A one actually made cash.
After posting large losses on their Concorde flights in the early 1980s, British Airways paid a flat sum of £16.5 million in 1984 to the UK government to buy their Concordes outright. After doing a market survey, and discovering that their target customers thought that Concorde was more expensive than it actually was, BA progressively raised prices to match. It seems extremely likely that BA then ran Concorde at a handsome profit probably unlike their French counterparts. Although BA refused to open the accounts, it has been reported to be up to £30-£50 million per year and a total profit of £1.75 billion on costs of £1 billion.
A Very prestigious project for the UK to have taken part in probably one of the UKs last great achievements.
My point was that Tony Benn helped rescue it when the treasury after already having spent millions wanted to cancel it.
i have to say i struggle to understand this point of view..
Mainly because there's a whole whelter of politicians who are happy enough to say they believe in anything to get elected, whilst quite often doing something quite different.
i don't see that the strength with which one holds ones convictions is automatically something to be celebrated. particularly in the event that i judge those convictions to be wrong...
It depends on the beliefs and how you put them into practice.
nobody i know has ever saluted a suicide bomber for his courage of conviction. or someone who has worked diligently for the KKK all his life in the face of much pressure, by saying well i disagreed with him but you have to admire his conviction. i think he was wrong, i think he was a danger to this country. it is a personal tragedy for him and his family, obviously. but that is all.
We're talking about political beliefs, not blind religious fervour here.
Comments
Not the devil incarnate. Just the eighties Labour version of what Bill Cash has been to the Tories overthe past couple of decades.
Not often I see Bill Cash being bigged up...
I agree they are both intransigent characters but Cash isn't in Benn's league (nowhere near) and while I have endless questions over Cash's motives, few politicians have ever stuck quite so solidly to their principles as Benn.
Of course.
Generally I think when someone dies you don't like you should shut up. I don't respect celebrating death, misery or the sadness of others. But neither do I the hypocrisy of changing your mind when someone dies.
No. I don't think it's wrong to have any particular view.
But I do think you need to be open to persuasion.
I agree - and times change.
When it came to the death of Lady Thatcher, I was very easily able to put in the modern context of believing that Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron/Clegg had all quite shockingly been far more detrimental to this country.
It is depressing to think that few of today's politicians are in the same league.
Comparing Tony Benn to Bill Cash is akin to comparing Oprah to Christine Bleakley.
Thats your opinion religion however in Ireland is the problem catholics/protestants.
You said not to that am i allowed to disagree.?
I certainly shared Tony Benns views on a united Ireland.
That's right, it is my opinion, which is a bit more informed than yours I would say. ;-)
Much to simplistic to say religion is the cause of conflict in Ireland.
Bear in mind about half of Catholics would vote to remain within the UK
Why is your opinion more informed then mime after all opinions are personal things,?
Maybe simplistic please explain why certaInly most of the opinions of the DUP seem to be based on such, with the former firebrand Rev Ian Paisley at the helm.
But i fear we may need another thread, suffice to say i agreed with Tony Benn on a united Ireland,in the interest of respect i respectfully suggest we leave it there.:)
Don't the people of NI have a say?
Fair enough Richard, already said it should not be derailed any further.
Though I feel I need to reply to misinformed posts.
But arguing over a sick man, that's just disgusting, almost as bad as the vermin that attacked Thatcher at her death.
People should have some respect.
why? bearing in mind that you have just called everyone in this thread disgusting.
why should we have some respect? does having respect mean not discussing the man at all? only saying nice things about him? what does respect mean to you?
Why should people not be able to express an opinion? How is that disrespectful? Benn himself would support our right to free speech.
Calling people vermin isn't very respectful is it?
Pardon?:o
Yes of course they do whatever made you think they would not D/S is a forum for individual views i have given mine yours differ possibly i do not know which is what the politics forum is all about.:)
He would he was arguing for the right to free speech at the meeting i saw him at last october as he helped fight for it i world war 2.:);
Mainly because there's a whole whelter of politicians who are happy enough to say they believe in anything to get elected, whilst quite often doing something quite different.
It depends on the beliefs and how you put them into practice.
We're talking about political beliefs, not blind religious fervour here.
No idea. Is this a guessing game?