The one piece of firm evidence we have been given is that human/humans turned the systems off. This does not fit with your scenario.
Isn't firm evidence. It was said the only way to turn off that system was to go into a menu and select off.
No mention of a fault, power cut or what happens if damaged.
Systems went off over a period of time too.
The pilot spoke to traffic control after it was turned off. Seemingly normal. How do they know if it was a severe fault or a series of events??
Execp that I and others have already been saying that.
The thread is going in circles with the most simple things being brushed over by daft conspiracy theories and terrorism.
The plane had a problem, pilot turned back, hypoxia, plane continued in a path, ran out of fuel and ditched some hours later.
If indeed it did crash sooner the pings could still have been sent as power may not have completely failed if floating or under water.
The pings are sent to a communications antenna which I don't think will still be attached if the plane has hit the water.
This just gets weirder by the day, every hour where this huge massive plane is not found, the mystery gets more baffling. So many twists and turns to it. I hate to say this, with so many people's lives at risk, but it is fascinating to watch unfold /Try and work out theories for yourself. I just hope we get answers soon, well - I hope the families of the missing crew and passengers get answers soon, but tell us what happened afterwards :P
Could have been a system failure with ACARS. The pilot may not have even been aware of it. Then later on, perhaps related, maybe not, a failure of the rear-pressure bulkhead blows off the tail, taking out the comms aerials at the same time (hence transponder and radios go offline) and the hydraulics. The plane goes into erratic climbs and descents (as planes do without any control surface input). The captain tries to fly the plane using the only input he has left - the engines. It is possible to steer planes to some degree with engine thrust and to try and counter the altitude oscillations. He manages to get it back to the straits of Mallaca in preparation for an attempted landing in KL before his oxygen generator runs out and hypoxia takes its toll. At this point the aircraft simply flies in a straight line, oscillating up and down until the fuel runs out, somewhere in the south Indian Ocean.
We have
The straightforward:
a) catastrophic failure, unknown cause, plane in deep sea
b) eventually fatal series of mechanical failures, plane in deep sea or uninhabited jungle areas of Malaysia (includes hypoxia where plane full of fatalities flies on until fuel runs out)
More complicated, including "some know more than they are saying right now"
c) Plane hijacked and taken to unknown destination, passenger condition unknown
d) Piracy by crew; plane, someone or something on it to be sold, secretly landed
e) Plane crashes after hijack attempt when passengers / crew fight back
f) Plane shot down by as yet unidentified state fearing 911 after hijack
g) suicide by pilot into deep sea
Interesting. Especially given that those actually leading this investigation (not just anon intel sources but the Malaysian PM) have already declared that this was the result of "a deliberate act."
It seems two diametrically opposed camps are at odds here. Those on one extreme that are easily seduced by the more sensational explanations. And then those that are determined to cling to the supposed straight forward explanations. This despite information that even many (if not most) aviation experts say makes those more mundane explanations evermore unlikely.
The one piece of firm evidence we have been given is that human/humans turned the systems off. This does not fit with your scenario.
No. We have not had that evidence. We have been told that the ACARS stopped reporting back to the engineering base before the transponder and other comms stopped.
Some people have taken that to implicitly mean that it was turned off by a human, but it doesn't rule out that it simply developed a fault.
First rule of investigation: rule out nothing until you can totally eliminate it by evidence.
It seems two diametrically opposed camps are at odds here. Those on one extreme that are easily seduced by the more sensational explanations. And then those that are determined to cling to the supposed straight forward explanations
Not just two camps! There is the third camp, those of us who don't have any pet theory and just accept that at the moment, nobody knows what happened or why, but who are following developments with interest and having a bit of a chuckle at the first two camps in their increasingly desperate attempts to be first to guess right.
I think they've got an approximate route/location for the plane but they're keeping it under wraps until they've found it.
Although the focus seems to be on the final ping, the satellite was pinging the plane hourly so they'll have 6-7 arcs to play with along with the last known radar location.
The phones issue:
Malaysia Airlines has in seat satellite phone service in first and business class:
Communications and connectivity
Your in-flight entertainment controller doubles as an air-to-ground phone. Make calls or send text messages to anywhere using your credit card. You can also call your friends on the same flight.
This just gets weirder by the day, every hour where this huge massive plane is not found, the mystery gets more baffling. So many twists and turns to it. I hate to say this, with so many people's lives at risk, but it is fascinating to watch unfold /Try and work out theories for yourself. I just hope we get answers soon, well - I hope the families of the missing crew and passengers get answers soon, but tell us what happened afterwards :P
A guy on BBC news summed that up.
Basically saying how wrong it is for people to think its so strange not to find a plane..... Forgetting that there's miles and miles and miles and miles of ocean larger than whole nations to search and cover. Not only that, such a small object in the grand scale of things.
So no, its not weird or unusual really if your looking for something where you don't really know its location and where such vast distances are involved.
Not just two camps! There is the third camp, those of us who don't have any pet theory and just accept that at the moment, nobody knows what happened or why, but who are following developments with interest and having a bit of a chuckle at the first two camps. .
Isn't firm evidence. It was said the only way to turn off that system was to go into a menu and select off.
No mention of a fault, power cut or what happens if damaged.
Systems went off over a period of time too.
The pilot spoke to traffic control after it was turned off. Seemingly normal. How do they know if it was a severe fault or a series of events??
They said it was a deliberate act. As they have said so little it seems they will only say something if they are definite.
The phones issue:
Malaysia Airlines has in seat satellite phone service in first and business class:
Communications and connectivity
Your in-flight entertainment controller doubles as an air-to-ground phone. Make calls or send text messages to anywhere using your credit card. You can also call your friends on the same flight.
You couldn't do that if you had hypoxia or crashed already.
Not just two camps! There is the third camp, those of us who don't have any pet theory and just accept that at the moment, nobody knows what happened or why, but who are following developments with interest and having a bit of a chuckle at the first two camps in their increasingly desperate attempts to be first to guess right. . .
Personally, I haven't ruled out hijack. It's just that some people do seem to have automatically ruled out the "mundane" electro-mechanical failure mechanisms.
They said it was a deliberate act. As they have said so little it seems they will only say something if they are definite.
Its a deliberate act to turn it off manually yes, not if there was a fault or damage of some kind. Comma was lost gradually too. Why not deliberately turn it all off at the same time?
The phones issue:
Malaysia Airlines has in seat satellite phone service in first and business class:
Communications and connectivity
Your in-flight entertainment controller doubles as an air-to-ground phone. Make calls or send text messages to anywhere using your credit card. You can also call your friends on the same flight.
You can also turn off the inflight entrainment and satellite phones from inside the cockpit.
Its a deliberate act to turn it off manually yes, not if there was a fault or damage of some kind. Comma was lost gradually too. Why not deliberately turn it all off at the same time?
We have been told that they were in various parts of the plane.
You couldn't do that if you had hypoxia or crashed already.
Well that's obvious.
But some people on the flight must have used the system prior to whatever happened. My sister has called me from Quantas and Emirates flights. No doubt the authorities will be trying to check when the last calls were made by passengers, and what was said.
Interestingly, after a bit of Googling, it seems that on a 777, the VHF (including ACARS), ATC (radio comms), TCAS (secondary radar transponder) and DME (traditional guidance system, which doesn't transmit) antennae are all located in a small cluster directly underneath the front fuselage, just aft of the avionics bay under the rear part of the cockpit.
There are other antennae on the 777, including GPS on the top of the fuselage above the same point, HF on the front edge of the vertical stabliser (used for in-flight data-link voice communications before Inmarsat), the VOR (used for identifying track to ground VOR arrays, but again not transmitting) on the top of the vertical stabliser, and the COMSAT array (used for in-flight entertainment comms) on top of the rear part of the fuselage.
eta: Oh, and the ILS localiser and weather radar, in the nose cone.
Notice anything here? All the antennae that identify the aircraft to ATC/secondary radar are all in one place. The one thing that continued to identify the aircraft's existence was in a completely different part of the aircraft.
Is it so unreasonable to accept that a fire or electrical explosion could create a series of events that started to take out all those communications? What about the hydraulics from the avionics bay to the wings/tail/stabiliser? Could they have been routed through the same area? Again, not saying that this *is* the cause of MH370s disappearance, but it is food for thought....
eta: Hypothesis: A problem in the ACARS transmitter causes a fire/explosion that takes out much of the avionics in the avionics bay - including the fly-by-wire computers?
I get home from work and try to catch up with the thread, why on earth are some talking about Kay bloody Burley, her sweat,clothes or interviews do not belong in a thread where 239 people are missing presumed dead.
I really appreciate reading the facts from people that have a much greater knowledge than myself on the topic.
Please do not belittle the facts of this incident by posting mundane things about Burley.
Sorry rant over
Interestingly, after a bit of Googling, it seems that on a 777, the VHF (including ACARS), ATC (radio comms), TCAS (secondary radar transponder) and DME (traditional guidance system, which doesn't transmit) antennae are all located in a small cluster directly underneath the front fuselage, just aft of the avionics bay under the rear part of the cockpit.
There are other antennae on the 777, including GPS on the top of the fuselage above the same point, HF on the front edge of the vertical stabliser (used for in-flight data-link voice communications before Inmarsat), the VOR (used for identifying track to ground VOR arrays, but again not transmitting) on the top of the vertical stabliser, and the COMSAT array (used for in-flight entertainment comms) on top of the rear part of the fuselage.
eta: Oh, and the ILS localiser and weather radar, in the nose cone.
Notice anything here? All the antennae that identify the aircraft to ATC/secondary radar are all in one place. The one thing that continued to identify the aircraft's existence was in a completely different part of the aircraft.
Is it so unreasonable to accept that a fire or electrical explosion could create a series of events that started to take out all those communications? What about the hydraulics from the avionics bay to the wings/tail/stabiliser? Could they have been routed through the same area? Again, not saying that this *is* the cause of MH370s disappearance, but it is food for thought....
I suppose the problem with this is that one of the communication systems shut down before the pilot last spoke to ground control. He didn't give any indication of a problem. So why was he not aware? The plane couldn't have suffered a total power failure in those circumstances. http://www.arabnews.com/news/541526
I get home from work and try to catch up with the thread, why on earth are some talking about Kay bloody Burley, her sweat,clothes or interviews do not belong in a thread where 239 people are missing presumed dead.
I really appreciate reading the facts from people that have a much greater knowledge than myself on the topic.
Please do not belittle the facts of this incident by posting mundane things about Burley.
Sorry rant over
Is it so unreasonable to accept that a fire or electrical explosion could create a series of events that started to take out all those communications? What about the hydraulics from the avionics bay to the wings/tail/stabiliser? Could they have been routed through the same area? Again, not saying that this *is* the cause of MH370s disappearance, but it is food for thought....
eta: Hypothesis: A problem in the ACARS transmitter causes a fire/explosion that takes out much of the avionics in the avionics bay - including the fly-by-wire computers?
I have reservations about the 'definite' story so far, based on a single ping at 8.11am and the Malaysian PM's assurance that they are convinced of maldoing, but without sharing their evidence with the public.
(Military radar track also only surmised to be MH370)
Comments
Isn't firm evidence. It was said the only way to turn off that system was to go into a menu and select off.
No mention of a fault, power cut or what happens if damaged.
Systems went off over a period of time too.
The pilot spoke to traffic control after it was turned off. Seemingly normal. How do they know if it was a severe fault or a series of events??
The pings are sent to a communications antenna which I don't think will still be attached if the plane has hit the water.
This just gets weirder by the day, every hour where this huge massive plane is not found, the mystery gets more baffling. So many twists and turns to it. I hate to say this, with so many people's lives at risk, but it is fascinating to watch unfold /Try and work out theories for yourself. I just hope we get answers soon, well - I hope the families of the missing crew and passengers get answers soon, but tell us what happened afterwards :P
Interesting. Especially given that those actually leading this investigation (not just anon intel sources but the Malaysian PM) have already declared that this was the result of "a deliberate act."
It seems two diametrically opposed camps are at odds here. Those on one extreme that are easily seduced by the more sensational explanations. And then those that are determined to cling to the supposed straight forward explanations. This despite information that even many (if not most) aviation experts say makes those more mundane explanations evermore unlikely.
No. We have not had that evidence. We have been told that the ACARS stopped reporting back to the engineering base before the transponder and other comms stopped.
Some people have taken that to implicitly mean that it was turned off by a human, but it doesn't rule out that it simply developed a fault.
First rule of investigation: rule out nothing until you can totally eliminate it by evidence.
Not just two camps! There is the third camp, those of us who don't have any pet theory and just accept that at the moment, nobody knows what happened or why, but who are following developments with interest and having a bit of a chuckle at the first two camps in their increasingly desperate attempts to be first to guess right.
Although the focus seems to be on the final ping, the satellite was pinging the plane hourly so they'll have 6-7 arcs to play with along with the last known radar location.
Malaysia Airlines has in seat satellite phone service in first and business class:
Communications and connectivity
Your in-flight entertainment controller doubles as an air-to-ground phone. Make calls or send text messages to anywhere using your credit card. You can also call your friends on the same flight.
A guy on BBC news summed that up.
Basically saying how wrong it is for people to think its so strange not to find a plane..... Forgetting that there's miles and miles and miles and miles of ocean larger than whole nations to search and cover. Not only that, such a small object in the grand scale of things.
So no, its not weird or unusual really if your looking for something where you don't really know its location and where such vast distances are involved.
I've been pitched up in that camp too.
They said it was a deliberate act. As they have said so little it seems they will only say something if they are definite.
You couldn't do that if you had hypoxia or crashed already.
Personally, I haven't ruled out hijack. It's just that some people do seem to have automatically ruled out the "mundane" electro-mechanical failure mechanisms.
Its a deliberate act to turn it off manually yes, not if there was a fault or damage of some kind. Comma was lost gradually too. Why not deliberately turn it all off at the same time?
You can also turn off the inflight entrainment and satellite phones from inside the cockpit.
We have been told that they were in various parts of the plane.
Well that's obvious.
But some people on the flight must have used the system prior to whatever happened. My sister has called me from Quantas and Emirates flights. No doubt the authorities will be trying to check when the last calls were made by passengers, and what was said.
I was thinking you could do that when reading that post., so that would stop anyone from using it.
There are other antennae on the 777, including GPS on the top of the fuselage above the same point, HF on the front edge of the vertical stabliser (used for in-flight data-link voice communications before Inmarsat), the VOR (used for identifying track to ground VOR arrays, but again not transmitting) on the top of the vertical stabliser, and the COMSAT array (used for in-flight entertainment comms) on top of the rear part of the fuselage.
eta: Oh, and the ILS localiser and weather radar, in the nose cone.
Notice anything here? All the antennae that identify the aircraft to ATC/secondary radar are all in one place. The one thing that continued to identify the aircraft's existence was in a completely different part of the aircraft.
Is it so unreasonable to accept that a fire or electrical explosion could create a series of events that started to take out all those communications? What about the hydraulics from the avionics bay to the wings/tail/stabiliser? Could they have been routed through the same area? Again, not saying that this *is* the cause of MH370s disappearance, but it is food for thought....
eta: Hypothesis: A problem in the ACARS transmitter causes a fire/explosion that takes out much of the avionics in the avionics bay - including the fly-by-wire computers?
But if the plane is never found, this thread could go on and on
Meh, it's still getting obliterated by Bladerunner's thread.
I really appreciate reading the facts from people that have a much greater knowledge than myself on the topic.
Please do not belittle the facts of this incident by posting mundane things about Burley.
Sorry rant over
Gallows humour
I have reservations about the 'definite' story so far, based on a single ping at 8.11am and the Malaysian PM's assurance that they are convinced of maldoing, but without sharing their evidence with the public.
(Military radar track also only surmised to be MH370)