Yes, that's what I've been saying in previous posts. It would be like you just turned off but time had passed - like having had general aneastheic but quicker. It would be a state of transcendence. The difference would be , on return to everyday consciousness, that you would be affected by it but according to your own individuality, beliefs and boundaries. So for example you might feel a great sense of peace, love, silence, awe or you might have had visions or meaningful dramas - you may even have returned with something metaphorical but useful. Eventually there would be a state where the selfish ego-mind has lost it's fear and allowed itself union with the higher Self - this has been referred to as enlightenment. It would be like the parable of the return of the prodigal son. IMO..
That's what I try and fail to express. Anthropomorphising transcendental experience is impossible. Nothing is preordained or controlled, it's all a "work in progress". No "God" has control over us in any way.
If you don't think the planet is alive, then wait until it dies more and get back to me.
Thanks for the advice, but wouldn't I be better advised to help it stay alive? Or doesn't it matter. (I guess it wouldn't if there's some god in control.)
It isn't that the planet's alive, unless you want to call geothermal activity 'life', but there's a thin sliver of soil, water and air surrounding it, without which - life as we like it can not exist.
Saying the planet's alive suggests something so big and old should be able to look after itself, and indeed it can. There are other planets near by which are doing what planets do just fine. It's what's on this planet which is incredibly special and may be incredibly rare.
Thanks for the advice, but wouldn't I be better advised to help it stay alive? Or doesn't it matter. (I guess it wouldn't if there's some god in control.)
It isn't that the planet's alive, unless you want to call geothermal activity 'life', but there's a thin sliver of soil, water and air surrounding it, without which - life as we like it can not exist.
Saying the planet's alive suggests something so big and old should be able to look after itself, and indeed it can. There are other planets near by which are doing what planets do just fine. It's what's on this planet which is incredibly special and may be incredibly rare.
BIB. Maybe this is why Bohm called all matter "conscious" to a certain degree.
The Gaia hypothesis indicates the earth can fight back, but it depends how much devastation selfish humans can do first.
This is from Lovelock's The Vanishing Face of Gaia:
In his latest book, The Vanishing Face of Gaia: A Final Warning, he argues that Earth’s system of self-regulation is being overwhelmed by greenhouse gas pollution and that Earth will soon jump from its current cool, stable state into a dramatically hotter one. All climatologists acknowledge the existence of such climatic jumps—as occurred for example at the end of the last ice age. But chaos theory dictates that the scale and timing of such leaps are inherently unpredictable, which means that they cannot be incorporated into the computer models of Earth’s climate system that such scientists use to project future climate change. Yet this is precisely what Lovelock attempts to do—using his own computer modeling—in The Vanishing Face of Gaia. A new climatic jump, he concludes, will occur within the next few years or decades, and will involve an abrupt increase in average global surface temperature of 9 degrees Celsius—from 15 to 24 degrees Celsius
The Earth is not a conscious entity in any sense at all. It amuses and amazes me in equal measure that some of the same people who adamantly deny that the human brain cannot form consciousness manage to convince themselves that a planet can.
The Earth is not a conscious entity in any sense at all. It amuses and amazes me in equal measure that some of the same people who adamantly deny that the human brain cannot form consciousness manage to convince themselves that a planet can.
Who said that the planet can form its own consciousness?
Bohm said that all matter is conscious.
He didn't say it formed itself but emerged from consciousness.
the bloke who stands on a soapbox in front of my local shopping centre and rants for hours never "brings corpses back to life". always seems to be some charismatic pastor in s america or africa ......
It's a bit more convenient when the claimed healee is some anonymous local in a remote and uncontactable locale. When they work their magic at home it tends to attract bothersome scrutiny of both parties that never ends well.
The Earth is not a conscious entity in any sense at all. It amuses and amazes me in equal measure that some of the same people who adamantly deny that the human brain cannot form consciousness manage to convince themselves that a planet can.
Who said that the planet can form its own consciousness?
Bohm said that all matter is conscious.
He didn't say it formed itself but emerged from consciousness.
If he did he did not say it as a scientist because there is not a shred of evidence for any such thing. My opinion that it is nonsense holds as much authority.
If he did he did not say it as a scientist because there is not a shred of evidence for any such thing. My opinion that it is nonsense holds as much authority.
He said it as a scientist, after observing plasma.
He didn't say it as a pastry chef, did he.
Is there a shred of evidence that life logically proceeds from the simple to the complex, as Dawkins said?
And Max Planck said this:
I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.
The Gaia hypothesis indicates the earth can fight back, but it depends how much devastation selfish humans can do first.
This is from Lovelock's The Vanishing Face of Gaia:
(...) A new climatic jump, he concludes, will occur within the next few years or decades, and will involve an abrupt increase in average global surface temperature of 9 degrees Celsius—from 15 to 24 degrees Celsius
He said he still thought that climate change was happening, but that its effects would be felt farther in the future than he previously thought.
“We will have global warming, but it’s been deferred a bit,” Lovelock said.
We are already seeing the effects of temperature changes.
According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the leading body on the subject, the world’s average temperature has risen by about 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit since 1900. By 2100, it predicts it will rise by another 2 to 11.5 degrees, depending upon the levels of greenhouse gases emitted.
The Earth is not a conscious entity in any sense at all. It amuses and amazes me in equal measure that some of the same people who adamantly deny that the human brain cannot form consciousness manage to convince themselves that a planet can.
It's obviously because all atoms are conscious. Didn't you realise?
The brain cannot create consciousness because consciousness is an irreducible force of love which permeates through the universe and its energy fills us so we can become one with the universe and feel its pain and anguish, but also its love and happiness. I know this to be true because some fringe scientist told me so.
That bit I'd accept as true. The brain is only matter, like a lump of rock.
Ha. I was taking the piss.
I actually hold a hyper-reductionist viewpoint. I firmly believe consciousness is created by the brain in its entirety and cannot exist in any form without the brain.
Plenty of people disagree with me of course. In fact, I'll be debating this with a group of people next Friday and I expect I'll have to defend my position from attacks from all sides.
This is from Lovelock's The Vanishing Face of Gaia:
(...) A new climatic jump, he concludes, will occur within the next few years or decades, and will involve an abrupt increase in average global surface temperature of 9 degrees Celsius—from 15 to 24 degrees Celsius
The climate is doing its usual tricks. There’s nothing much really happening yet. We were supposed to be halfway toward a frying world now. (...)
The world has not warmed up very much since the millennium. Twelve years is a reasonable time… it (the temperature) has stayed almost constant, whereas it should have been rising -- carbon dioxide is rising, no question about that (...)
The problem is we don’t know what the climate is doing. We thought we knew 20 years ago. That led to some alarmist books – mine included – because it looked clear-cut, but it hasn’t happened (...)
All right, I made a mistake.
But Lovelock is relaxed about how this reversal might be perceived. He says being allowed to change your mind and follow the evidence is one of the liberating marvels of being an independent scientist
Comments
Yet atheists seem to talk about God as much as the religious do.
That's what I try and fail to express. Anthropomorphising transcendental experience is impossible. Nothing is preordained or controlled, it's all a "work in progress". No "God" has control over us in any way.
It isn't that the planet's alive, unless you want to call geothermal activity 'life', but there's a thin sliver of soil, water and air surrounding it, without which - life as we like it can not exist.
Saying the planet's alive suggests something so big and old should be able to look after itself, and indeed it can. There are other planets near by which are doing what planets do just fine. It's what's on this planet which is incredibly special and may be incredibly rare.
Want to buy a rainforest?
https://www.rainforesttrust.org/
Only on here Bolly. We are the soapbox people ... the people of the soapbox. That's us.
BIB. Maybe this is why Bohm called all matter "conscious" to a certain degree.
The Gaia hypothesis indicates the earth can fight back, but it depends how much devastation selfish humans can do first.
This is from Lovelock's The Vanishing Face of Gaia:
In his latest book, The Vanishing Face of Gaia: A Final Warning, he argues that Earth’s system of self-regulation is being overwhelmed by greenhouse gas pollution and that Earth will soon jump from its current cool, stable state into a dramatically hotter one. All climatologists acknowledge the existence of such climatic jumps—as occurred for example at the end of the last ice age. But chaos theory dictates that the scale and timing of such leaps are inherently unpredictable, which means that they cannot be incorporated into the computer models of Earth’s climate system that such scientists use to project future climate change. Yet this is precisely what Lovelock attempts to do—using his own computer modeling—in The Vanishing Face of Gaia. A new climatic jump, he concludes, will occur within the next few years or decades, and will involve an abrupt increase in average global surface temperature of 9 degrees Celsius—from 15 to 24 degrees Celsius
The earth can't fight. It's up to (selfish) humans and most are dreaming of heaven. >:(
OK then.
Well you would not say a tree is conscious in the same way a human is conscious, would you?
Does the tree complain all day about God's errors?
It's also unfair to make it appear as if the religious and spiritual are not involved in ecology.
Some of the most ecologically conscious people I know are religious and/or spiritual.
I see so much God-blaming for the things people do themselves.
Who said that the planet can form its own consciousness?
Bohm said that all matter is conscious.
He didn't say it formed itself but emerged from consciousness.
It's a bit more convenient when the claimed healee is some anonymous local in a remote and uncontactable locale. When they work their magic at home it tends to attract bothersome scrutiny of both parties that never ends well.
who said that?
If he did he did not say it as a scientist because there is not a shred of evidence for any such thing. My opinion that it is nonsense holds as much authority.
He said it as a scientist, after observing plasma.
He didn't say it as a pastry chef, did he.
Is there a shred of evidence that life logically proceeds from the simple to the complex, as Dawkins said?
And Max Planck said this:
You would have to call both nonsensical, then.
He changed his mind in 2012 -
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/04/23/11144098-gaia-scientist-james-lovelock-i-was-alarmist-about-climate-change
He didn't "change his mind."
We are already seeing the effects of temperature changes.
It was Bohm's belief not a scientifically evidenced finding of any kind. Read the Platt article again.
It's obviously because all atoms are conscious. Didn't you realise?
The brain cannot create consciousness because consciousness is an irreducible force of love which permeates through the universe and its energy fills us so we can become one with the universe and feel its pain and anguish, but also its love and happiness. I know this to be true because some fringe scientist told me so.
That bit I'd accept as true. The brain is only matter, like a lump of rock.
Ha. I was taking the piss.
I actually hold a hyper-reductionist viewpoint. I firmly believe consciousness is created by the brain in its entirety and cannot exist in any form without the brain.
Plenty of people disagree with me of course. In fact, I'll be debating this with a group of people next Friday and I expect I'll have to defend my position from attacks from all sides.
It was his hypothesis as a scientist based on his observations.
No one said he studied all the matter of the universe and found it conscious.
I don't accept that your opinon and Bohm/ Planck's are of equal weight.
Yes he did, on the quote I specifically snipped -
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/04/23/11144098-gaia-scientist-james-lovelock-i-was-alarmist-about-climate-change
More -
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/jun/15/james-lovelock-interview-gaia-theory
http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2012/04/lovelock-and-temperature-rise/
http://www.science20.com/science_20/james_lovelock_whats_eating_godfather_global_warming-91406
Well I yap too much most times so thought I'd cut right to the shizz, innit?
Possibly your brain.
I like to think better of mine.
Especially the right hemisphere, that is my pet.