Do they not have general police to call in emergency.. my hubby I told about Mrs Stipp and the screaming for 15 mins... he said the police could have got there if called..
which is true.. did no one just call the actual police rather than the security and even then... on thinking no one rang them very quickly... she may have been saved...
I was assuming she did all the screaming in the toilet... Sandy, you think she was being chased around and dashed in there last minute, that could be the reason for the scream getting louder, as she headed for the toilet their side of the house, so they heard it more... I guess the bedroom would be in disarray if they were chasing around... goodness knows...
Don't we perhaps assume that the first three noises mrs. stipp heard were the door being bashed,,.. I thought that was the thinking... then the screaming going on and on, then the final shots and silence.. have I got that wrong?
perhaps she did open the little window=,. mrs. stipp said it got louder...
I was thinking that only a relatively small bit of panel was bashed.(first bangs)
Then shots (second bangs)
Then OP would have to break rest of top panel to get to the key. It is the last bit that might make noise that could be heard.
Yes I agree def. pre med... I agree very much with all your posts you write some sensible stuff (well to me it sounds logical and likely) and |I totally agree he had plenty of time to calm down and realise what he was doing... the screaming so long, actually if you time 15 mins is an amazing length of time...for her to be screaming ..must say my hubby wonders what on earth I am doing so long on here always and I just said to him about the screaming and Mrs. Stipp ..... and he just said ... why on earth did no one call the police if she was screaming 15 mins ... they would have been there surely in time... I need to check that out, when the Stipps DID actually report it, becos on thinking that is a very long time to hear and do nothing ...
If you look at Porky's posts then phoned quite quickly I think and the whole thing went on for about fifteen minutes, that's waking, or hearing, puzzling, on balcony, phoning, dressing moving to other balcony etc.
And Stipps went out to see if he could help. I don't think they did nothing but acted quite understandably if they weren't sure at first what was properly happening.
As for the screaming, I suspect there were a couple of gaps here and there, for breath, at least, and the stipps were busy trying to sort themselves out at the same time.
But Mrs Stip was clear - about fifteen minutes start to finish, and yes, that's a lot of screaming.
I was thinking that only a relatively small bit of panel was bashed.(first bangs)
Then shots (second bangs)
Then OP would have to break rest of top panel to get to the key. It is the last bit that might make noise that could be heard.
I was thinking that only a relatively small bit of panel was bashed.(first bangs)
Then shots (second bangs)
Then OP would have to break rest of top panel to get to the key. It is the last bit that might make noise that could be heard.
Although on second thoughts the panel might have lifted out fairly easily if it was just jointed in.
Do they not have general police to call in emergency.. my hubby I told about Mrs Stipp and the screaming for 15 mins... he said the police could have got there if called..
which is true.. did no one just call the actual police rather than the security and even then... on thinking no one rang them very quickly... she may have been saved...
trouble is a lot of those witnesses said they didn't want to get involved - not just in this case, but that night it happened - it's not the kind of thing that they expected to hear in middle of the night, and so calling their Security on the Estate sounds like most expected thing they'd do, as they're on site patrolling !! so different to here.
If you look at Porky's posts then phoned quite quickly I think and the whole thing went on for about fifteen minutes, that's waking, or hearing, puzzling, on balcony, phoning, dressing moving to other balcony etc.
And Stipps went out to see if he could help. I don't think they did nothing but acted quite understandably if they weren't sure at first what was properly happening.
As for the screaming, I suspect there were a couple of gaps here and there, for breath, at least, and the stipps were busy trying to sort themselves out at the same time.
But Mrs Stip was clear - about fifteen minutes start to finish, and yes, that's a lot of screaming.
What about the house actually next door to OP with lights all on... surely they should have heard something you would think?? they did not testify or go to the house to see what was going on, and they were actual neighbours... with lights on at 3am
So Nel has sat on a smoking gun ?
and didn't inform the court that there's more to come that's damning to the Defence ?
OF COURSE THERE'S MORE TO COME
Cellphone analysis expert Francois Moller in witness box questioned by Nel
Moller is showing Reeva’s phone GPRS connections…
Nel: “Now to establish if this was a Whatsapp or what this was, one could refer back to the download report of her handset?”
Moller:”That is correct M‘Lady, one would have to go back and have a look in the download report if one can actually find any application that made use of the internet for communication and mostly, in this case that she was a regular user on Whatsapp, one will have to go and look at the Whatsapp messages.”
Nel:”So if there’s a Whatsapp message at the same time that would indicate this connection with the internet?”
None of the actual security guys heard anything obviously, their office is presumably not close to OP house and they did not patrol there at that time...
I was assuming she did all the screaming in the toilet... Sandy, you think she was being chased around and dashed in there last minute, that could be the reason for the scream getting louder, as she headed for the toilet their side of the house, so they heard it more... I guess the bedroom would be in disarray if they were chasing around... goodness knows...
that's what I suggest - that the screams got louder due to movement from bedroom area as she moved into the bathroom, opened window calling for help, went into toilet locked door , was shot screaming got louder and more desperate, she's in pain now ,, not just fearful - so that's how the sound would escalate.
I was assuming she did all the screaming in the toilet... Sandy, you think she was being chased around and dashed in there last minute, that could be the reason for the scream getting louder, as she headed for the toilet their side of the house, so they heard it more... I guess the bedroom would be in disarray if they were chasing around... goodness knows...
I think she was in the toilet either when the bangings started or just before.
In bathroom together, Oscar with bat, angry, hits bath panel, phone dropped, Reeva runs to toilet locks it, hard bangs on the door, angry and intimidating,
Panel breaks, light in toilet screaming,
During this time we don't know what OP was doing at all, mocking her, threatening her in a lower voice, saying he was going to kill her and leaving for the bedroom, pacing working himself up, who knows.
Reeva still screaming - OP gets gun comes back, she sees he's got his gun and she knows she's going to die and the volume goes up as high as she can go as she's screaming for her life.
Sounds of two voices - Reevas and OPs what he's shouting we don't know, if he screams we don't know if the was mocking or trying to drown her out or what.
I can believe that she couldn't believe it was actually happening and was sort of frozen, just screaming. Not really thinking of what she could possibly do and unable to plan.
I think the bangs damaged the panel enough for light, but the panel was prised off with his hands after OP shot her.
I think the mobile phone was dropped before she got into the toilet and that they rowed in the bathroom (bath panel)
The first bit yes. The BIB...
I thought at first the panel was kicked in when OP had his prosthetics on. The Bat Man said he couldn't determine what made the mark. That is difficult to fit in the story. If he kicked it before she went in the toilet it would probably have been heard by Mrs Stipp if she was awake by then since the window would probably have already been open.
I would love to have some evidence that the phone was dropped outside the toilet and she did not have it in there with her. Fits much better.
What about the house actually next door to OP with lights all on... surely they should have heard something you would think?? they did not testify or go to the house to see what was going on, and they were actual neighbours... with lights on at 3am
I don't know. Did their house have lights on?
Used air con, windows shut, heavy sleepers, like a drink, Didn't want to get involved. Perhaps older people.
I really don't know.
But it's been very hard for the witnesses that did come forward.
The first bit yes. The BIB...
I thought at first the panel was kicked in when OP had his prosthetics on. The Bat Man said he couldn't determine what made the mark. That is difficult to fit in the story. If he kicked it before she went in the toilet it would probably have been heard by Mrs Stipp if she was awake by then since the window would probably have already been open.
I would love to have some evidence that the phone was dropped outside the toilet and she did not have it in there with her. Fits much better.
No blood on the phone though, that makes it clear it wasn't in with her when she died.
I think she was in the toilet either when the bangings started or just before.
In bathroom together, Oscar with bat, angry, hits bath panel, phone dropped, Reeva runs to toilet locks it, hard bangs on the door, angry and intimidating,
Panel breaks, light in toilet screaming,
During this time we don't know what OP was doing at all, mocking her, threatening her in a lower voice, saying he was going to kill her and leaving for the bedroom, pacing working himself up, who knows.
Reeva still screaming - OP gets gun comes back, she sees he's got his gun and she knows she's going to die and the volume goes up as high as she can go as she's screaming for her life.
Sounds of two voices - Reevas and OPs what he's shouting we don't know, if he screams we don't know if the was mocking or trying to drown her out or what.
OP shoots her.
what a cold blooded man
i wonder what they were arguing about that made him shoot her.
Cellphone analysis expert Francois Moller in witness box questioned by Nel
Moller is showing Reeva’s phone GPRS connections…
Nel: “Now to establish if this was a Whatsapp or what this was, one could refer back to the download report of her handset?”
Moller:”That is correct M‘Lady, one would have to go back and have a look in the download report if one can actually find any application that made use of the internet for communication and mostly, in this case that she was a regular user on Whatsapp, one will have to go and look at the Whatsapp messages.”
Nel:”So if there’s a Whatsapp message at the same time that would indicate this connection with the internet?”
Moller:”That is correct M’Lady.”
Reference: March 25, Session 1, 18:15 to 19:01
I know the above was said ---- and after he explained that ,,,he THEN read out the WhatsApp messaging between the two of them ? I think you are 'hoping there's more that's been withheld than there actually has - And why not present all the messages to the Court then ? so Defence can rebuttal ? that's procedure.
I agree, we are not looking at a psycho... I think he was in a blind rage... but wonde what on earth it was that set off SUCH a situation that is why I cant see him killing her face on.. and I wonder if the panel broken would shed enuf light for mrs. stipp to have seen light in that cublcle.. if it was a b rightly lit main bathroom then yes, I guess it would thro a cracked panel..
I approached it from the other way. Both the Stipps said there was light in the toilet. Mrs Stipp that the intensity of the light in the toilet was the same as in the bathroom. At that point just after the first bangs, the only way that could be there was from a fairly big hole in the panel. So OP story cannot be true as it has him firing first and bullet holes let in very little light.
As for what triggered it all. We will probably never know but if the toilet light evidence holds I don't think it will matter.
(This may all change at 7.35 on Monday April 7th )
I approached it from the other way. Both the Stipps said there was light in the toilet. Mrs Stipp that the intensity of the light in the toilet was the same as in the bathroom. At that point just after the first bangs, the only way that could be there was from a fairly big hole in the panel. So OP story cannot be true as it has him firing first and bullet holes let in very little light.
As for what triggered it all. We will probably never know but if the toilet light evidence holds I don't think it will matter.
(This may all change at 7.35 on Monday April 7th )
Used air con, windows shut, heavy sleepers, like a drink, Didn't want to get involved. Perhaps older people.
I really don't know.
But it's been very hard for the witnesses that did come forward.
I think mrs. stipp said ALL their lights were on next door, and in OP it was the upstairs light bathroom I guess she meant.... surely they woul d have heard all this racket going on...
I know the above was said ---- and after he explained that ,,,he THEN read out the WhatsApp messaging between the two of them ? I think you are 'hoping there's more that's been withheld than there actually has - And why not present all the messages to the Court then ? so Defence can rebuttal ? that's procedure.
Nel did not read out the Whatsapp messages of that night
What was read was some Whatsapp messages in the past between Oscar and Reeva that showed she was "unhappy with him"
I'm not hoping for more… you should go back and listen to that testimony and see for yourself!
Nel did not present the messages on PURPOSE… because he will use them during Oscar's cross when they will matter and be effective
All of the application data is in evidence and Nel does not have to present it when cellphone expert is testifying
Comments
which is true.. did no one just call the actual police rather than the security and even then... on thinking no one rang them very quickly... she may have been saved...
I was thinking that only a relatively small bit of panel was bashed.(first bangs)
Then shots (second bangs)
Then OP would have to break rest of top panel to get to the key. It is the last bit that might make noise that could be heard.
If you look at Porky's posts then phoned quite quickly I think and the whole thing went on for about fifteen minutes, that's waking, or hearing, puzzling, on balcony, phoning, dressing moving to other balcony etc.
And Stipps went out to see if he could help. I don't think they did nothing but acted quite understandably if they weren't sure at first what was properly happening.
As for the screaming, I suspect there were a couple of gaps here and there, for breath, at least, and the stipps were busy trying to sort themselves out at the same time.
But Mrs Stip was clear - about fifteen minutes start to finish, and yes, that's a lot of screaming.
yes ic yes
Although on second thoughts the panel might have lifted out fairly easily if it was just jointed in.
What about the house actually next door to OP with lights all on... surely they should have heard something you would think?? they did not testify or go to the house to see what was going on, and they were actual neighbours... with lights on at 3am
OF COURSE THERE'S MORE TO COME
Cellphone analysis expert Francois Moller in witness box questioned by Nel
Moller is showing Reeva’s phone GPRS connections…
Nel: “Now to establish if this was a Whatsapp or what this was, one could refer back to the download report of her handset?”
Moller:”That is correct M‘Lady, one would have to go back and have a look in the download report if one can actually find any application that made use of the internet for communication and mostly, in this case that she was a regular user on Whatsapp, one will have to go and look at the Whatsapp messages.”
Nel:”So if there’s a Whatsapp message at the same time that would indicate this connection with the internet?”
Moller:”That is correct M’Lady.”
Reference: March 25, Session 1, 18:15 to 19:01
I think she was in the toilet either when the bangings started or just before.
In bathroom together, Oscar with bat, angry, hits bath panel, phone dropped, Reeva runs to toilet locks it, hard bangs on the door, angry and intimidating,
Panel breaks, light in toilet screaming,
During this time we don't know what OP was doing at all, mocking her, threatening her in a lower voice, saying he was going to kill her and leaving for the bedroom, pacing working himself up, who knows.
Reeva still screaming - OP gets gun comes back, she sees he's got his gun and she knows she's going to die and the volume goes up as high as she can go as she's screaming for her life.
Sounds of two voices - Reevas and OPs what he's shouting we don't know, if he screams we don't know if the was mocking or trying to drown her out or what.
OP shoots her.
The first bit yes. The BIB...
I thought at first the panel was kicked in when OP had his prosthetics on. The Bat Man said he couldn't determine what made the mark. That is difficult to fit in the story. If he kicked it before she went in the toilet it would probably have been heard by Mrs Stipp if she was awake by then since the window would probably have already been open.
I would love to have some evidence that the phone was dropped outside the toilet and she did not have it in there with her.
I don't know. Did their house have lights on?
Used air con, windows shut, heavy sleepers, like a drink, Didn't want to get involved. Perhaps older people.
I really don't know.
But it's been very hard for the witnesses that did come forward.
No blood on the phone though, that makes it clear it wasn't in with her when she died.
what a cold blooded man
i wonder what they were arguing about that made him shoot her.
Probably very similar to loads of other domestic arguments that go bad.
Jealousy, name calling, contempt, anger, violence.
Could be over anything big or small.
I approached it from the other way. Both the Stipps said there was light in the toilet. Mrs Stipp that the intensity of the light in the toilet was the same as in the bathroom. At that point just after the first bangs, the only way that could be there was from a fairly big hole in the panel. So OP story cannot be true as it has him firing first and bullet holes let in very little light.
As for what triggered it all. We will probably never know but if the toilet light evidence holds I don't think it will matter.
(This may all change at 7.35 on Monday April 7th
very very true
she has been a victim of domestic violence before i remember her best friend saying. Wow how sad, she died a brutal death.:( I feel for her family.
lol your counting down the days innit?
Aren't we all
Still this bit of time has helped us sort it out in our heads a bit more.
Now it should start again Monday, but ...... lets hope the Judge ladyperson gets better soon.
I think mrs. stipp said ALL their lights were on next door, and in OP it was the upstairs light bathroom I guess she meant.... surely they woul d have heard all this racket going on...
Nel did not read out the Whatsapp messages of that night
What was read was some Whatsapp messages in the past between Oscar and Reeva that showed she was "unhappy with him"
I'm not hoping for more… you should go back and listen to that testimony and see for yourself!
Nel did not present the messages on PURPOSE… because he will use them during Oscar's cross when they will matter and be effective
All of the application data is in evidence and Nel does not have to present it when cellphone expert is testifying