I approached it from the other way. Both the Stipps said there was light in the toilet. Mrs Stipp that the intensity of the light in the toilet was the same as in the bathroom. At that point just after the first bangs, the only way that could be there was from a fairly big hole in the panel. So OP story cannot be true as it has him firing first and bullet holes let in very little light.
As for what triggered it all. We will probably never know but if the toilet light evidence holds I don't think it will matter.
(This may all change at 7.35 on Monday April 7th )
yes I agree.. I don't think a phone would light up all that for stipp to see, it would be thro the panel
they didn't hear the panel because it wasn't as loud in sound as screaming for your life and gunshots
the light would not have been seen from outside that far away from a mobile - the light she saw was probably that from the main bathroom illuminating a fader light naturally in the toilet next door
she didn't open the window in the toilet because she was shot as soon as she went in there and locked the door, no time . She may however have opened the larger bathroom window and screamed out before hiding in the toilet.
Don't think that works coz Mrs S was awake just before the bat hits and would have heard. At the time Reeva would have been moving fast from Oscar armed either with a bat or not. She was not fleeing for her life. If it was from the gun then yes she would be and might have screamed out the window but then I think she would have been found crouching in the corner of the toilet. Not up at the door trying to cope with an escalating situation.
Must just say... Rhumba made me think about this...... Mrs. Stipp said the screaming got more intense towards the end... rhumba said perhaps she saw him coming with the gun
(earlier the bat) and realised her fate.... that does fit with the screaming ...... if she had been in the toilet a while, she would not know the gun was about to be used unless she could see out!! so that theory is plausible...... she saw thro the panel or being chased in there but she KNEW he now had a gun
Just coming out of the toilet and changing the subject ....... I do not see OP father in court at all..... I also thought it a strange thing to say, when Carl his brother spoke to June steenkamp and said something to like "we are trying to save a life" meaning OP and the trial... an odd thing to say surely
I don't personally agree rhumba, I think he was just in a bl++dy massive rage...I don't think he was sort of enjoying the power...
I have a problem with him going into a massive rage at any time before he first hits the door with the bat bacause Mrs Stipp might well have heard it through the open window. One way round this might be to say that Reeva opened it to climb out but then why didnt she scream then. Could have been she thought that would send him ballistic. If he had the gun straight away she might have tried the window but would then be found dead crouched in the toilet.
I see a row where Reeva was trying everything to keep him from blowing whilst trying to get away. She was still up at the door when shot after all. If he followed her into the bathroom it is reasonable she was not screaming at that stage.
I think what really sent him over the edge was not being able to get to her, for him a humiliating loss of control, respect and power. Not good for his type
Just coming out of the toilet and changing the subject ....... I do not see OP father in court at all..... I also thought it a strange thing to say, when Carl his brother spoke to June steenkamp and said something to like "we are trying to save a life" meaning op and the trial... an odd thing to say surely
if he said that then wow
wasn't he brother trailed for murder as well? if so what a dodgy family
Yes, too far. But enjoying the anger, enjoying the power he had.
At least to some degree. This isn't unusual, enjoying a fight, bullying people etc. some people find it exciting and pleasurable without it being 'psychotic'.
I need to account for the prolonged experience of terror that Reeva screamed through.
And to account for him eventually shooting her after all that.
I have a problem with him going into a massive rage at any time before he first hits the door with the bat bacause Mrs Stipp might well have heard it through the open window. One way round this might be to say that Reeva opened it to climb out but then why didnt she scream then. Could have been she thought that would send him ballistic. If he had the gun straight away she might have tried the window but would then be found dead crouched in the toilet.
I see a row where Reeva was trying everything to keep him from blowing whilst trying to get away. She was still up at the door when shot after all. If he followed her into the bathroom it is reasonable she was not screaming at that stage.
I think what really sent him over the edge was not being able to get to her, for him a humiliating loss of control, respect and power. Not good for his type
I agree totally with your last para... I am not sure about the events leading up... soud be interesting to know if prev girlfriend who testified, could have shed any light on how a massive row with OP usually goes! she was with him 18 months... I don't think they walked into the bathroom as such together discussing, I feel she fled in there whenever it was in fear, but I agree, a very small room but she would be huddled down if he had been showing the gun....
wasn't he brother trailed for murder as well? if so what a dodgy family
I believe his borther was yes.... not totally sure.. ut yet ... and I am pos he said those words, I will try to check, but I thought at the time it was not the ideal thing to say surely..
it was OP uncle who said it,, see quote
Sitting next to the grieving mum briefly in the morning before proceedings began, he told her: "I am so sorry for your loss.
"We as a family are just as heartroken for the life that has been lost.
"Like your family we are trying to fight for a life and also for a life that has been lost."
I think mrs. stipp said ALL their lights were on next door, and in OP it was the upstairs light bathroom I guess she meant.... surely they woul d have heard all this racket going on...
Yes you would have thought so. I bet the defence will say that the voices Estelle van der Merwe heard were coming from this house not Oscar's!
it was OP uncle who said it,, see quote
Sitting next to the grieving mum briefly in the morning before proceedings began, he told her: "I am so sorry for your loss.
"We as a family are just as heartroken for the life that has been lost.
"Like your family we are trying to fight for a life and also for a life that has been lost."
I agree totally with your last para... I am not sure about the events leading up... soud be interesting to know if prev girlfriend who testified, could have shed any light on how a massive row with OP usually goes! she was with him 18 months... I don't think they walked into the bathroom as such together discussing, I feel she fled in there whenever it was in fear, but I agree, a very small room but she would be huddled down if he had been showing the gun....
Me neither. Anything would fit in there as long as it ends up with Reeva locked in the toilet. Not too much noise and Reeva not so scared out of her skin that she could not stand at the door. Maybe someone will come up with something so compelling and such a good fit that it will be irresistible. Then its just a matter of the bathroom light shining through a hole that Reeva can scream through "unmuffled" and there's your premeditated murder
it was OP uncle who said it,, see quote
Sitting next to the grieving mum briefly in the morning before proceedings began, he told her: "I am so sorry for your loss.
"We as a family are just as heartroken for the life that has been lost.
"Like your family we are trying to fight for a life and also for a life that has been lost."
Me neither. Anything would fit in there as long as it ends up with Reeva locked in the toilet. Not too much noise and Reeva not so scared out of her skin that she could not stand at the door. Maybe someone will come up with something so compelling and such a good fit that it will be irresistible. Then its just a matter of the bathroom light shining through a hole that Reeva can scream through "unmuffled" and there's your premeditated murder
Yes this has got to the the general idea hasn't it. huge row and ending up in the toilet
etc..... I was just thinking though sitting here, it had to be something big I think, I know rows escalate out of nothing... but to get the gun I wonde what the catalyst was... sure it escalates, but surely it could not have started over where they wer e going for a meal the next night, .....or something like that... but she DID say in one of those texts to him, how upset he gets if she mentions an ex didn't she.... perhaps it sparked from nothing but to escalate that far is something else...
Yes this has got to the the general idea hasn't it. huge row and ending up in the toilet
etc..... I was just thinking though sitting here, it had to be something big I think, I know rows escalate out of nothing... but to get the gun I wonde what the catalyst was... sure it escalates, but surely it could not have started over where they wer e going for a meal the next night, .....or something like that... but she DID say in one of those texts to him, how upset he gets if she mentions an ex didn't she.... perhaps it sparked from nothing but to escalate that far is something else...
Yes I agree. I have not thought too much about the texts yet. I can see OP may have been bottling things up and occasions like Christmas, moving house tend to be when things come out as people are faced with how they really feel about people. In this case for a relatively short relationship I guess Valentine day might do it. The trouble is reading all those messages never really gets you any further than a maybe because with the likes of OP no one ever really knows what goes on in his head.
Comments
yes I agree.. I don't think a phone would light up all that for stipp to see, it would be thro the panel
Don't think that works coz Mrs S was awake just before the bat hits and would have heard. At the time Reeva would have been moving fast from Oscar armed either with a bat or not. She was not fleeing for her life. If it was from the gun then yes she would be and might have screamed out the window but then I think she would have been found crouching in the corner of the toilet. Not up at the door trying to cope with an escalating situation.
(earlier the bat) and realised her fate.... that does fit with the screaming ...... if she had been in the toilet a while, she would not know the gun was about to be used unless she could see out!! so that theory is plausible...... she saw thro the panel or being chased in there but she KNEW he now had a gun
monday....isnt it the 7th?
I have a problem with him going into a massive rage at any time before he first hits the door with the bat bacause Mrs Stipp might well have heard it through the open window. One way round this might be to say that Reeva opened it to climb out but then why didnt she scream then. Could have been she thought that would send him ballistic. If he had the gun straight away she might have tried the window but would then be found dead crouched in the toilet.
I see a row where Reeva was trying everything to keep him from blowing whilst trying to get away. She was still up at the door when shot after all. If he followed her into the bathroom it is reasonable she was not screaming at that stage.
I think what really sent him over the edge was not being able to get to her, for him a humiliating loss of control, respect and power. Not good for his type
if he said that then wow
wasn't he brother trailed for murder as well? if so what a dodgy family
Very good questions.
I agree totally with your last para... I am not sure about the events leading up... soud be interesting to know if prev girlfriend who testified, could have shed any light on how a massive row with OP usually goes! she was with him 18 months... I don't think they walked into the bathroom as such together discussing, I feel she fled in there whenever it was in fear, but I agree, a very small room but she would be huddled down if he had been showing the gun....
I believe his borther was yes.... not totally sure.. ut yet ... and I am pos he said those words, I will try to check, but I thought at the time it was not the ideal thing to say surely..
You bet :cool:
Sitting next to the grieving mum briefly in the morning before proceedings began, he told her: "I am so sorry for your loss.
"We as a family are just as heartroken for the life that has been lost.
"Like your family we are trying to fight for a life and also for a life that has been lost."
Yes you would have thought so. I bet the defence will say that the voices Estelle van der Merwe heard were coming from this house not Oscar's!
Maybe they are to appear for the defence.
That sounds like a Roux move.. yes! No doubt THEY were have a huge family row... now it is solved... according to roux
wwww what a creepy family
yes an odd thing to say... they all seem somehow unlikeable IMO... the vibes they give off |His words sounded rather rehearsed too.. I feel
Me neither. Anything would fit in there as long as it ends up with Reeva locked in the toilet. Not too much noise and Reeva not so scared out of her skin that she could not stand at the door. Maybe someone will come up with something so compelling and such a good fit that it will be irresistible. Then its just a matter of the bathroom light shining through a hole that Reeva can scream through "unmuffled" and there's your premeditated murder
Or maybe playing their "Sound Effects Album - Domestic row edition" very loudly with the window open
The Adams Family.
Yes this has got to the the general idea hasn't it. huge row and ending up in the toilet
etc..... I was just thinking though sitting here, it had to be something big I think, I know rows escalate out of nothing... but to get the gun I wonde what the catalyst was... sure it escalates, but surely it could not have started over where they wer e going for a meal the next night, .....or something like that... but she DID say in one of those texts to him, how upset he gets if she mentions an ex didn't she.... perhaps it sparked from nothing but to escalate that far is something else...
you have hit the nail on the head... perfect
ha ha, that IS funny ;-)
Yes I agree. I have not thought too much about the texts yet. I can see OP may have been bottling things up and occasions like Christmas, moving house tend to be when things come out as people are faced with how they really feel about people. In this case for a relatively short relationship I guess Valentine day might do it. The trouble is reading all those messages never really gets you any further than a maybe because with the likes of OP no one ever really knows what goes on in his head.