What you said was clear both times. I should have posted it as a separate train of thought. My bad
I agree "scream" seems an unusual word for him.
I can accept some tailoring of his words, after all he's defending against accusations and you tend to reflect the terms used by your accuser. I can also accept things in the trial will jog his memory or things are now more in the spotlight than last year and he thinks well that's easily explained by x or y so he will want to bring it to the court's attention. That said, there's an awful lot of it !
Did I actually say something that makes sense for a change?
Just some thoughts..
He liked to humiliate Reeva.
He pushed her away when she touched his neck in public.
He would berate her loudly in public.
In a friends car he put a song on with bad language throughout, when she's a devout Christian who listens to Christian music.
He would snap at her, showing at that time a lack of respect.
Generally he was pretty shit to her in such a young relationship. It really didn't bode well.
The night he killed her I believe he humiliated her , as it seems his want to do and she ran to lock herself away, to put distance between them with a locked door...this incensed him to the point he fired his gun without much thought.
She was deathly quiet, he would have us believe, in his intruder fairytale. Alll through this fear filled, screaming and ranting episode, so absent of any speech that she was by all intention and purpose already dead in his mind.
.it is just not plausible that the events that night unfolded in that way . In fact so many impossible details, that it has gone beyond reasonable doubt that THAT many improbable things could happen. IMO.
I'm glad that its just a judge and her two advisors that will decide his fate . I feel confident that they will make the correct decision either way.
I was interested and somewhat comforted the other day when the Judge made that comment about the mistakes OP was making and the discussion about whether it would be safe for the court to proceed. For all the pontificating that we do here, it doesn't matter in a jot what we say or think. Thank Gawd for that I say.
This.
Great Post imo.
Pistorius's defense team will have been hugely concerned about the overheard argument and raised voices shouting and screaming scenario.
They would need to know almost exactly what he was shouting in case other witnesses collaborated their versions and that potentially conflicted with the defenses take on it.
In which case given that as a possibility:
Has anyone yet suggested that OP could very easily been shouting at Reeva "Get out of my house"?
if they'd argued, that would be one of the first things he could easily have barked at her.
If she had indeed been perceived by OP to have been belittling him he may well have told her to "get down". perhaps to see what the world felt like from his perspective.
Her reaction to this possible scenario could well have been to say "I'm calling the police. let me out. you're scaring me"
His cocky response "Call the police"?
Knowing full well she probably wouldn't, so she runs to the bathroom for some air because he's closed the balcony doors as he didn't want neighbors hearing them arguing...
it's all the right words, just in a completely different context!
Interestingly the jeans don't look to be on top of the duvet in that picture.
Doesn't alter the fact that Oscar would have to walk over the duvet on his stumps to get from the fan to the hifi unit........and Reeva was supposed to be underneath it in bed.
Compared Kap's photo with trial photo
All the creases on duvet and on jeans match perfectly
So no movement of jeans or duvet between the time both photos were taken
Kap, can you give link to how we can access more of these photos ?
It's surprising how often van Rensburg is allowed to say 'I don't know', 'I can't remember', 'I'm not sure', etc. etc. Roux should've said "I'm sorry Mr van Rensburg but that is not good enough. The court will not accept that. Why don't you know? Why can't you remember?'.
ALL South Africans have been touched by crime in some way or another- he is not unique. People just get on with it over there. Its a part of life (I know I lived there for over
30 years) He exaggerates these fears of his and tbh his examples of being a victim of crime were laughable- were they even true? One was most certainly a lie.
Are you referring to a "flash from a muzzle"?
I think OP is a compulsive liar to big himself up, I've known one or two like him. I daresay the driver in the black Mercedes was lighting himself a cigarette and OP went into combat mode. Slamming on his brakes indeed. ^_^ I'm not aware that he even noted the car's number.
I don't even believe he drew his gun at the washing machine.
Are you referring to a "flash from a muzzle"?
I think OP is a compulsive liar to big himself up, I've known one or two like him. I daresay the driver in the black Mercedes was lighting himself a cigarette and OP went into combat mode. Slamming on his brakes indeed. ^_^ I'm not aware that he even noted the car's number.
I don't even believe he drew his gun at the washing machine.
I'm starting to think now even Oscar is believing his own lies. Before I think he knew was lying but I think he's convinced himself now.
I think there is something mentally wrong with him, Im sure of it.
Another big inconsistency in his testimony - in his sworn affidavit he said: "On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police." (c+p'd from his original affidavit)
So did he scream, or whisper, or just softly spoke???
Thats a good question
In his testimony in court yesterday he used "spoke" "whispered" "shouted" and "spoke softly" when he was telling her to get down and call the police. The "shouted" was when he had gone off and was near/in the passageway, the other words used were when he got his gun under the bed and spoke to her as he was by the bed.
Thing is, after saying SEVERAL times in his testimony, not just yesterday, that he whispered to her, he threw some clanger yesterday that he DIDNT whisper to her. Sheesh you couldnt make this stuff up. listen here:
Someone on here (fatal words, I know) said that Roux claimed to have evidence that the duvet had originally been on the bed.
I can't see that happening myself. Nel would know what photos were available and I can't see him making a big deal about the duvet being on the floor if he knew Roux would simply produce a photo of the Duvet on the bed at a later date. It would make a mockery on the prosecution case. Nel would have been forced to abandon the questioning regarding the duvet because it would be unsound evidence. So I'm doubtful Roux has anything of that nature. He may have evidence that the duvet moved between photos but it has to be on the floor at all times in all photos.
I'm reserving judgement for now because this trial has a way to run yet and Roux may have some pretty convincing evidence himself. I can see how Oscar has cooked up a fantasy scenario to excuse him killing his girlfriend but I'm still not ready to accept 100% that it happened that way. I'm waiting for Roux to finish.
Something I didn't know .. Roux and Nel know each other very well. They're regarded as the best at what they do in SA and quite often go up against each other in trials. This isn't the first time.
Something I didn't know .. Roux and Nel know each other very well. They're regarded as the best at what they do in SA and quite often go up against each other in trials. This isn't the first time.
Not surprised… most prominent attorneys know each other very well and have faced off in Court…would not surprise me if they were friends…most are.
I can't see that happening myself. Nel would know what photos were available and I can't see him making a big deal about the duvet being on the floor if he knew Roux would simply produce a photo of the Duvet on the bed at a later date. It would make a mockery on the prosecution case. Nel would have been forced to abandon the questioning regarding the duvet because it would be unsound evidence. So I'm doubtful Roux has anything of that nature. He may have evidence that the duvet moved between photos but it has to be on the floor at all times in all photos.
I'm reserving judgement for now because this trial has a way to run yet and Roux may have some pretty convincing evidence himself. I can see how Oscar has cooked up a fantasy scenario to excuse him killing his girlfriend but I'm still not ready to accept 100% that it happened that way. I'm waiting for Roux to finish.
I expected a rebuttal yesterday morning about the duvet, but it didn't come.
I am fairly sure it can be accepted that the duvet was on the floor when the SAPS arrived at approx 4am and that knocks another hole in OP's version.
It will be interesting to see where it goes from here.
Something I didn't know .. Roux and Nel know each other very well. They're regarded as the best at what they do in SA and quite often go up against each other in trials. This isn't the first time.
3 to 0 in Nels favour. Or that's what someone posted earlier .
Alternatively, if he says he doesn't know or can't remember Nel says 'that not good enough'. It seems he can't win most of the time.
Well to be honest, it really isn't good enough to say I don't remember to all those crucial details. OP has evaded and fabricated all the way through his evidence.
Not surprised… most prominent attorneys know each other very well and have faced off in Court…would not surprise me if they were friends…most are.
Why wouldn't they be?
They are work colleagues and probably enjoy pitting their wits against each other like a game of chess.
They don't invest their emotions into the cases they work on.......like what we do ;-)
Comments
Did I actually say something that makes sense for a change?
Gosh, I'm late for my TAA* class now.
*Trial Addicts Anonymous
This.
Great Post imo.
Pistorius's defense team will have been hugely concerned about the overheard argument and raised voices shouting and screaming scenario.
They would need to know almost exactly what he was shouting in case other witnesses collaborated their versions and that potentially conflicted with the defenses take on it.
In which case given that as a possibility:
Has anyone yet suggested that OP could very easily been shouting at Reeva "Get out of my house"?
if they'd argued, that would be one of the first things he could easily have barked at her.
If she had indeed been perceived by OP to have been belittling him he may well have told her to "get down". perhaps to see what the world felt like from his perspective.
Her reaction to this possible scenario could well have been to say "I'm calling the police. let me out. you're scaring me"
His cocky response "Call the police"?
Knowing full well she probably wouldn't, so she runs to the bathroom for some air because he's closed the balcony doors as he didn't want neighbors hearing them arguing...
it's all the right words, just in a completely different context!
whats their phone number
Compared Kap's photo with trial photo
All the creases on duvet and on jeans match perfectly
So no movement of jeans or duvet between the time both photos were taken
Kap, can you give link to how we can access more of these photos ?
Thanks
Maybe that's why Nel asked Oscar if he tripped over it or knocked it over?
Op said that jeans where on the floor when he picked them up
Maybe RS or/and OP are more messy (or les OCD) than you ;-)
Thought you were referring to Oscar.
The photo was on this link of updates:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-recap-updates-3399437
Not sure there are any others.
most victims say being hit by a bullet is like being hit by a truck, it knocks the wind out of you.
I await with interest.
My word, he really does seem to have every excuse for Any eventuality,
I think OP is a compulsive liar to big himself up, I've known one or two like him. I daresay the driver in the black Mercedes was lighting himself a cigarette and OP went into combat mode. Slamming on his brakes indeed. ^_^ I'm not aware that he even noted the car's number.
I don't even believe he drew his gun at the washing machine.
Alternatively, if he says he doesn't know or can't remember Nel says 'that not good enough'. It seems he can't win most of the time.
I'm starting to think now even Oscar is believing his own lies. Before I think he knew was lying but I think he's convinced himself now.
I think there is something mentally wrong with him, Im sure of it.
Thats a good question
In his testimony in court yesterday he used "spoke" "whispered" "shouted" and "spoke softly" when he was telling her to get down and call the police. The "shouted" was when he had gone off and was near/in the passageway, the other words used were when he got his gun under the bed and spoke to her as he was by the bed.
Thing is, after saying SEVERAL times in his testimony, not just yesterday, that he whispered to her, he threw some clanger yesterday that he DIDNT whisper to her. Sheesh you couldnt make this stuff up. listen here:
1.20.50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBvvA4cL5Zc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
You can scroll a couple mins back to get context
Eta anyone any ideas why he did that?
I can't see that happening myself. Nel would know what photos were available and I can't see him making a big deal about the duvet being on the floor if he knew Roux would simply produce a photo of the Duvet on the bed at a later date. It would make a mockery on the prosecution case. Nel would have been forced to abandon the questioning regarding the duvet because it would be unsound evidence. So I'm doubtful Roux has anything of that nature. He may have evidence that the duvet moved between photos but it has to be on the floor at all times in all photos.
I'm reserving judgement for now because this trial has a way to run yet and Roux may have some pretty convincing evidence himself. I can see how Oscar has cooked up a fantasy scenario to excuse him killing his girlfriend but I'm still not ready to accept 100% that it happened that way. I'm waiting for Roux to finish.
Ok thanks anyways
Not surprised… most prominent attorneys know each other very well and have faced off in Court…would not surprise me if they were friends…most are.
I expected a rebuttal yesterday morning about the duvet, but it didn't come.
I am fairly sure it can be accepted that the duvet was on the floor when the SAPS arrived at approx 4am and that knocks another hole in OP's version.
It will be interesting to see where it goes from here.
3 to 0 in Nels favour. Or that's what someone posted earlier .
Botha said on the "side of the bed" (ambiguous)
From 24 mins ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwzV3uB9UrI
Wasn't there a time/place where OP referred to closing the balcony doors, closing the blinds and closing the curtains ?
I don't see any blinds in the photos…only doors and curtains.
Well to be honest, it really isn't good enough to say I don't remember to all those crucial details. OP has evaded and fabricated all the way through his evidence.
Why wouldn't they be?
They are work colleagues and probably enjoy pitting their wits against each other like a game of chess.
They don't invest their emotions into the cases they work on.......like what we do ;-)