Regardless of how stubbornly 'loyal' the board appears to be, if we don't make the Champions League next season then Moyes has to be gone.
And to reach the top four now, would require form from the teams curently fighting for that spot (Arsenal and Everton) that they just haven't shown for the whole season, so that seems very unlikely indeed.
But no matter what we say or think here, I still think that he is here for next season at the very least, so we might as well get used to it (as much as that might seem a bad idea).
And to reach the top four now, would require form from the teams curently fighting for that spot (Arsenal and Everton) that they just haven't shown for the whole season, so that seems very unlikely indeed.
But no matter what we say or think here, I still think that he is here for next season at the very least, so we might as well get used to it (as much as that might seem a bad idea).
Top 4 next season isn't good enough IMO. That was this seasons target for a new manager finding his feet. We need a title challenge next season as a minimum requirement.
Top 4 next season isn't good enough IMO. That was this seasons target for a new manager finding his feet. We need a title challenge next season as a minimum requirement.
Do you think that the board will see it like that?
I certainly hope so, but I have my doubts. If we make top 4, then I can see Moyes keeping his job.
Do you think that the board will see it like that?
I certainly hope so, but I have my doubts. If we make top 4, then I can see Moyes keeping his job.
I would expect him to keep his job with a top 4 finish, i just personally don't think thats good enough. Moyes shouldn't be allowed to lower expectations like this. If he is handed a pile of cash in addition to what has already been spent then i think that should come with a bit of expectation. Taking the squad he inherited, adding two £30m players plus whatever he does in the Summer should produce a title challenging side IMO.
I would expect him to keep his job with a top 4 finish, i just personally don't think thats good enough. Moyes shouldn't be allowed to lower expectations like this. If he is handed a pile of cash in addition to what has already been spent then i think that should come with a bit of expectation. Taking the squad he inherited, adding two £30m players plus whatever he does in the Summer should produce a title challenging side IMO.
I completely agree. I just fear that the board will use anything as justification to not sack him. Making the top 4 next season gives them an excuse to not act.
Top 4 next season isn't good enough IMO. That was this seasons target for a new manager finding his feet. We need a title challenge next season as a minimum requirement.
Do you think that the board will see it like that?
I certainly hope so, but I have my doubts. If we make top 4, then I can see Moyes keeping his job.
A lot will depend on our sqaud next season, who stays, goes, and who we bring in, as we might well have a very different make up to the one we have at the moment.
So any potential title challenge or top four push, will need to take into account how we perform in the summer, then we can decide what sort of season we should be having, but one thing is for sure, having another season like this current one, is in no way shape or form acceptable (not that it is this season).
A lot will depend on our sqaud next season, who stays, goes, and who we bring in, as we might well have a very different make up to the one we have at the moment.
So any potential title challenge or top four push, will need to take into account how we perform in the summer, then we can decide what sort of season we should be having, but one thing is for sure, having another season like this current one, is in no way shape or form acceptable (not that it is this season).
Who stays and who goes dent matter one iota. If changes are made they are being made by Moyes and therefore he will be carrying the can for these changes. If he brings in players and can't make it work then thats a further indication that he is the wrong man for the job, as if our performances this season weren't indication enough.
Who stays and who goes dent matter one iota. If changes are made they are being made by Moyes and therefore he will be carrying the can for these changes. If he brings in players and can't make it work then thats a further indication that he is the wrong man for the job, as if our performances this season weren't indication enough.
The sqaud makeup for next season will play a huge role in deciding what sort of season we have, if for example in a hypothetical world, we sign Messi and Ronaldo, we would expect to have a better season, then if we signed say Downing, and Marcus Bent.
(Extreme examples I know, but I was just putting the point out there, that the players at your disposal does determine to a large degree what sort of season one can expect to have).
So until we know for certain, (by the time the window shuts) who are sqaud is going to be made up of, we really wil not be able to asertain the sort of season we should be aiming for.
The sqaud makeup for next season will play a huge role in deciding what sort of season we have, if for example in a hypothetical world, we sign Messi and Ronaldo, we would expect to have a better season, then if we signed say Downing, and Marcus Bent.
(Extreme examples I know, but I was just putting the point out there, that the players at your disposal does determine to a large degree what sort of season one can expect to have).
So until we know for certain, (by the time the window shuts) who are sqaud is going to be made up of, we really wil not be able to asertain the sort of season we should be aiming for.
The point is that Moyes is responsible for the squad make-up.
We should be challenging for the title. Moyes should be acquiring the players to enable us to do that.
Moyes knew full well what was expected of him, when he was appointed. I have no doubt that he's feeling the same frustrations as the rest of us.
He will go into next season looking at challenging for the title, of that I have no doubt.
Unfortunately, it would appear that despite this, he just doesn't have what it takes.
I agree with Jim here, whilst Moyes may or may not be out of his depth with us, the one thing that I think that he wants with us is to be as high up in the league table as possible, and so I don't think he see's this season as a success whatsoever, or even if we got into the Europa League (be it via our league position, or down to what happens in the cup final).
Yes, we can have a go at him, for the way this season has gone, but he will know that it has been not good enough, and will want to improve on this season.
Will he be able to do so, well that is for next season to tell us for certain, as at the moment, it is all guesswork by others, saying either way.
You're Manchester United - you should ALWAYS be able to ascertain the sort of season you're aiming for.
Yes, under Sir Alex, where we were (without trying to sound too big headed, or anything like that) kind of assured of being involved in a title battle, but this is a new era, with a new manager, and by the looks of things, next season will be with a new sqaud almost, so at the moment, it is hard to gague what sort of season it will be, without having an idea of who will be in that sqaud.
We should be looking to aim for a title challenge, but until we know the makeup of the sqaud, then it is hard to say if we will be up there or not.
Top 4 next season isn't good enough IMO. That was this seasons target for a new manager finding his feet. We need a title challenge next season as a minimum requirement.
What I don't get is the talk - I know it's just talk, but still ... - that Moyes gets a summer, and if the season goes pear shaped and it's becoming apparent 4th will be a distant dream, he gets sacked at Christmas.
Who on earth is going to be available to take over, at Christmas?! The 'quality' managers will be elsewhere in the summer.
That's why I don't understand the 'he gets a summer transfer window; talk.
He's had a season. If he was at another PL club with the performances and results he's been responsbile for, he'd have been sacked by now, with the reason being given, as it usually is, (however it's worded) that they need someone else to take the club forward because this manager is not capable of it and is showing no signs of being capable of it.
I would expect him to keep his job with a top 4 finish, i just personally don't think thats good enough. Moyes shouldn't be allowed to lower expectations like this. If he is handed a pile of cash in addition to what has already been spent then i think that should come with a bit of expectation. Taking the squad he inherited, adding two £30m players plus whatever he does in the Summer should produce a title challenging side IMO.
He should have been sacked as soon as he said that City is the level Manchester United should aspire to.
An unforgiivable remark.
Course, that's what he'd have said as an Everton manager. He still thinks and acts like an Everton manager, but lucky for Everton he's not still their manager.
Wait til he says it about Liverpool as well, though. Even Fergie might baulk at his beloved son saying that!
I don't think that he'll be gone at Christmas, unless we're in relegation trouble.
He'll get next season, I suspect.
Considering how much not being in the Ch League will cost the Glazers once, I just can't imagine they'd put up with losing it twice. And with Moyes in charge they'll lose it every season.
Considering how much not being in the Ch League will cost the Glazers once, I just can't imagine they'd put up with losing it twice. And with Moyes in charge they'll lose it every season.
If it was that important to them, then surely he'd be sacked before next season?
If they've honestly fallen for this rubbish about the squad needing a massive overhaul, then I reckon that Moyes gets the whole of next year.
I have not been Moyes biggest fan this season, but you look at the table, and you look at the quality of the squads above us, and - being brutally honest - we're about where we should be.
The teams above us have better squads. Yes, we have a few world-class individual attacking players, but we have a below-average midfield and a defence consisting of aging and inexperienced players - nobody at the peak of their career. If we finish 6th, then that's about right for the squad.
You can't compare winning the league under SAF last year to this. He was one-of-a-kind and we won the league on the strength of that fact, Van Persie having a stormer, and the inadequacies of our rivals.
I remember Brendan Rogers got a whole load of stick from Liverpool fans last year, but I always said he had done a good job - his first year on the job, trying to change the playing style, needing to add and mould new players into the squad - to finish 7th was about where they deserved to be. And now look at them this year.
Moyes is no SAF, but nobody is. Mouriniho was never going to join us over Chelsea, and Guardiola had already signed a lucrative contract with Bayern. There's not really anybody else in their league. Keeping that in mind, I'd rather we give Moyes the benefit of the doubt for the moment. I'm happy to give him another season, and if there's improvement (ie. a top 4 finish), then keep him on. If not, then maybe we need to look elsewhere. But for all we know, Moyes could be the Brendan Rogers of next year.
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I don't think any United fan thought that we would have the type of season that we have had, and it has been a shock to the system to say the least.
Hopefully this has woken up a few people, and next season we will see an improvement, lord knows we certainly need to see a huge improvement.
Even if we had an actual flood like that Moyes would be like a barnacle clung on to the side of the boat.
Glad I wasn't around in those days though, look how much we moan at little floods today, they used to be much worse.
And to reach the top four now, would require form from the teams curently fighting for that spot (Arsenal and Everton) that they just haven't shown for the whole season, so that seems very unlikely indeed.
But no matter what we say or think here, I still think that he is here for next season at the very least, so we might as well get used to it (as much as that might seem a bad idea).
I meant if we don't make the top 4 next season.
It's long gone, this year.
i think it would be beneficial to qualify for it personally.
Do you think that the board will see it like that?
I certainly hope so, but I have my doubts. If we make top 4, then I can see Moyes keeping his job.
I would expect him to keep his job with a top 4 finish, i just personally don't think thats good enough. Moyes shouldn't be allowed to lower expectations like this. If he is handed a pile of cash in addition to what has already been spent then i think that should come with a bit of expectation. Taking the squad he inherited, adding two £30m players plus whatever he does in the Summer should produce a title challenging side IMO.
I completely agree. I just fear that the board will use anything as justification to not sack him. Making the top 4 next season gives them an excuse to not act.
If it was up to me, he'd be gone already.
A lot will depend on our sqaud next season, who stays, goes, and who we bring in, as we might well have a very different make up to the one we have at the moment.
So any potential title challenge or top four push, will need to take into account how we perform in the summer, then we can decide what sort of season we should be having, but one thing is for sure, having another season like this current one, is in no way shape or form acceptable (not that it is this season).
Who stays and who goes dent matter one iota. If changes are made they are being made by Moyes and therefore he will be carrying the can for these changes. If he brings in players and can't make it work then thats a further indication that he is the wrong man for the job, as if our performances this season weren't indication enough.
In the same way, despite what he might say publicly, getting 4th would be his aim cos that's another success.
I can't agree with this.
Moyes knew full well what was expected of him, when he was appointed. I have no doubt that he's feeling the same frustrations as the rest of us.
He will go into next season looking at challenging for the title, of that I have no doubt.
Unfortunately, it would appear that despite this, he just doesn't have what it takes.
The sqaud makeup for next season will play a huge role in deciding what sort of season we have, if for example in a hypothetical world, we sign Messi and Ronaldo, we would expect to have a better season, then if we signed say Downing, and Marcus Bent.
(Extreme examples I know, but I was just putting the point out there, that the players at your disposal does determine to a large degree what sort of season one can expect to have).
So until we know for certain, (by the time the window shuts) who are sqaud is going to be made up of, we really wil not be able to asertain the sort of season we should be aiming for.
The point is that Moyes is responsible for the squad make-up.
We should be challenging for the title. Moyes should be acquiring the players to enable us to do that.
I agree with Jim here, whilst Moyes may or may not be out of his depth with us, the one thing that I think that he wants with us is to be as high up in the league table as possible, and so I don't think he see's this season as a success whatsoever, or even if we got into the Europa League (be it via our league position, or down to what happens in the cup final).
Yes, we can have a go at him, for the way this season has gone, but he will know that it has been not good enough, and will want to improve on this season.
Will he be able to do so, well that is for next season to tell us for certain, as at the moment, it is all guesswork by others, saying either way.
Yes, under Sir Alex, where we were (without trying to sound too big headed, or anything like that) kind of assured of being involved in a title battle, but this is a new era, with a new manager, and by the looks of things, next season will be with a new sqaud almost, so at the moment, it is hard to gague what sort of season it will be, without having an idea of who will be in that sqaud.
We should be looking to aim for a title challenge, but until we know the makeup of the sqaud, then it is hard to say if we will be up there or not.
What I don't get is the talk - I know it's just talk, but still ... - that Moyes gets a summer, and if the season goes pear shaped and it's becoming apparent 4th will be a distant dream, he gets sacked at Christmas.
Who on earth is going to be available to take over, at Christmas?! The 'quality' managers will be elsewhere in the summer.
That's why I don't understand the 'he gets a summer transfer window; talk.
He's had a season. If he was at another PL club with the performances and results he's been responsbile for, he'd have been sacked by now, with the reason being given, as it usually is, (however it's worded) that they need someone else to take the club forward because this manager is not capable of it and is showing no signs of being capable of it.
He should have been sacked as soon as he said that City is the level Manchester United should aspire to.
An unforgiivable remark.
Course, that's what he'd have said as an Everton manager. He still thinks and acts like an Everton manager, but lucky for Everton he's not still their manager.
Wait til he says it about Liverpool as well, though. Even Fergie might baulk at his beloved son saying that!
He'll get next season, I suspect.
Considering how much not being in the Ch League will cost the Glazers once, I just can't imagine they'd put up with losing it twice. And with Moyes in charge they'll lose it every season.
If it was that important to them, then surely he'd be sacked before next season?
If they've honestly fallen for this rubbish about the squad needing a massive overhaul, then I reckon that Moyes gets the whole of next year.
The teams above us have better squads. Yes, we have a few world-class individual attacking players, but we have a below-average midfield and a defence consisting of aging and inexperienced players - nobody at the peak of their career. If we finish 6th, then that's about right for the squad.
You can't compare winning the league under SAF last year to this. He was one-of-a-kind and we won the league on the strength of that fact, Van Persie having a stormer, and the inadequacies of our rivals.
I remember Brendan Rogers got a whole load of stick from Liverpool fans last year, but I always said he had done a good job - his first year on the job, trying to change the playing style, needing to add and mould new players into the squad - to finish 7th was about where they deserved to be. And now look at them this year.
Moyes is no SAF, but nobody is. Mouriniho was never going to join us over Chelsea, and Guardiola had already signed a lucrative contract with Bayern. There's not really anybody else in their league. Keeping that in mind, I'd rather we give Moyes the benefit of the doubt for the moment. I'm happy to give him another season, and if there's improvement (ie. a top 4 finish), then keep him on. If not, then maybe we need to look elsewhere. But for all we know, Moyes could be the Brendan Rogers of next year.