If they do the actual reveal as the last scene of Season 4 I can see them making it the meeting with Brienne rather than some random Frey being the one that recognises Cat. Or maybe a combo of the two, Brienne is captured and is brought to the camp as a Frey is being hanged.
Episode 4 is called Oathkeeper so will feature Brienne setting off from King's Landing (which I think happens near the end of ASOS) so they probably are moving up Brienne's capture to make it the reveal of Lady Stoneheart.
Who will take the blame for Lysa, didn't they already kill Marillion? Perhaps they'll keep Dontos around and use him as a scapegoat...
Marillion wasn't actually killed, just had his tongue cut out.
They might have had him make his way back to the Eyrie but only playing instrumentals now
Somewhat harder for him to deny his involvement as well
They could of course use Dontos but It would be just as easy to introduce some random guard/bard at the Eyrie one scene before and have them as the scapegoat.
I HOPE they end it that way! For those who havent read the books it'll be a real WTF moment
Me too. Those last two scenes in the book are full of WTF moments- Littlefinger revealing he engineered Jon Arryn's murder; Lysa's fall through the moon door and Catelyn's return. If the last episode also shows Tyrion and Tywin's final confrontation, that episode will be mind blowing for viewers who haven't read the books.
They could of course use Dontos but It would be just as easy to introduce some random guard/bard at the Eyrie one scene before and have them as the scapegoat.
I agree, it'll be easy to show a guard or someone in an earlier episode maybe trying to make a move on Sansa (like in the books) and then be present in Lysa's murder scene before being framed by Littlefinger. Marillion isn't really neccesary to be honest. I can see Dontos being murdered by Littlefinger after Sansa's escape like in the books too.
I also agree about what you said about Brienne and Lady Stoneheart. I can defintely see Brienne being involved in Lady Stoneheart's first appearance- whether she's been captured by her or if she's watching a Frey being hung from afar.
I wonder if the writers are going to start dropping hints about
R+L
as a nod to that theory .
Oberyn mentioned Rhaegar falling in love with someone else but he didn't say who IIRC?
(similar to how snippets have been given in the books and pieced together!)
It would be very interesting to see if non-readers pick up on it!
Did you ever read the Totally unspoiled Speculation thread at the Television Without Pity Forums?
You're only allowed to post in the thread if you have no prior knowledge of the books/show (so no Wiki/articles/interviews/next time previews etc).
Anyway they picked up on the fact that Jon's Mother could end up being important and R +L was even suggested at one point.
There was at least one book reader pretending to be a non reader in the early days though and it may well have been them that planted the R+L seed.
They've moved forums recently as TWOP is shutting down so things are a bit chaotic but I don't think anyone has yet worked out that Oberyn was talking about Lyanna.
Did you ever read the Totally unspoiled Speculation thread at the Television Without Pity Forums?
You're only allowed to post in the thread if you have no prior knowledge of the books/show (so no Wiki/articles/interviews/next time previews etc).
Anyway they picked up on the fact that Jon's Mother could end up being important and R +L was even suggested at one point.
There was at least one book reader pretending to be a non reader in the early days though and it may well have been them that planted the R+L seed.
They've moved forums recently as TWOP is shutting down so things are a bit chaotic but I don't think anyone has yet worked out that Oberyn was talking about Lyanna.
Wow there is some interesting stuff there. A couple have touched on a theory that i see as plausible - dont want to say exactly what right now as its spoilerific!
I just re-watched the first episode of season 4 again last night and there are definite clues as to whether Lady Stoneheart will make an appearance.
Sansa mentioning in graphic detail what happened to her mother. Her neck being sliced to the bone (a very significant aspect of LS's entire character is the fact that she doesn't speak).
The end scene with The hound and Arya where there was a corpse with a noose around their neck and then later we see them ride off into the riverlands which were burning. All references directly from the books in connection to LS.
I missed it first time round but picked up Olenna palming the amethyst the second time round. I'm wondering if anyone who didn't know about this would have picked up on it.
I missed it first time round but picked up Olenna palming the amethyst the second time round. I'm wondering if anyone who didn't know about this would have picked up on it.
I saw her fiddling with the necklace but did not see if there was a stone missing afterwards.
I think it may have been Margaery who actually placed it in the cup but it was left on the table next to Olenna for a while so it may have been her.
I was hoping they would have had Tyrions suspicions that Joff was behind the failed assassination of Bran but nothing.
Maybe they'll have Jaime and/or Tyrion mention it at some point but they really needed the exchange about Valyrian steel at the Wedding breakfast for Tyrion to be suspicious.
Now that Joff's dead they may never give the answer or maybe the show will actually reveal that someone else was behind it and not Joff
I missed it first time round but picked up Olenna palming the amethyst the second time round. I'm wondering if anyone who didn't know about this would have picked up on it.
Well, there's always the focussing on her when Tyrion picks up the offending cup.
I missed it first time round but picked up Olenna palming the amethyst the second time round. I'm wondering if anyone who didn't know about this would have picked up on it.
I missed it too, spent too long wondering why Sansa wasn't wearing a hairnet, and thinking that if the necklace was going to be the substitute then those stones were far too big, for one to go missing and no-one notice. So then I was focusing on that little gold hair ornament she had.
Of course it was the giant amethyst that got palmed, I just watched that scene again, and the stone is missing.
Ignoring the 'big event' itself what about Cersei fronting Brienne about loving Jamie...I don't recall anything like that happening in the books (although a while since I read). Are the writers going for a more overtly romanticised relationship between B & J?
I am a third of the way through A Feast for Crows and to be honest nothings really happened. Everything I have read could be condensed in to about ten minutes of screen time. If the rest of the book and a Dance of Dragons is the same, both books could fit in series 5.
If GRRM does not complete his next book until 2015 and series 5 comes out in 2015 he's never going to complete the last in one year.
The series producers said seven series, but I figured at least eight or nine. I am not so sure now.
Ignoring the 'big event' itself what about Cersei fronting Brienne about loving Jamie...I don't recall anything like that happening in the books (although a while since I read). Are the writers going for a more overtly romanticised relationship between B & J?
I'm pretty sure there was nothing like that in the book, I'm well into my second reading of the series, up to A Dance with Dragons, about 200 pages in, and apart from the fact that they keep thinking about each other, there is no romance in the relationship, or hints of feelings involved. This is the writers taking a slight poetic licence from nothing more than possible hints in the book.
I'm pretty sure there was nothing like that in the book, I'm well into my second reading of the series, up to A Dance with Dragons, about 200 pages in, and apart from the fact that they keep thinking about each other, there is no romance in the relationship, or hints of feelings involved. This is the writers taking a slight poetic licence from nothing more than possible hints in the book.
Yeah, as you say, it's not like that in the books. Cercei doesn't confront Brienne. In fact, for a while, Jaime has Brienne imprisoned and guarded for her own good (Loras and Renly's ex-bannermen are about, believing her to be a "kingslayer"). Jaime and Brienne's relationship is more mutual respect, at least at the time of the story being depicted by the show, with the vague hint that it might blossom into something more, but nothing more than that.
So that undead Horse we saw in Bran's vision, was it the same one the WW was riding back in Season 2 or could it have been a glimpse of Cold Hands (riding an undead Horse rather than an Elk)?
I'm pretty sure there was nothing like that in the book, I'm well into my second reading of the series, up to A Dance with Dragons, about 200 pages in, and apart from the fact that they keep thinking about each other, there is no romance in the relationship, or hints of feelings involved. This is the writers taking a slight poetic licence from nothing more than possible hints in the book.
As George RR Martin wrote the episode himself, I think I would call it more than poetic licence. Perhaps more an intention that was not fully expressed in the books.
So that undead Horse we saw in Bran's vision, was it the same one the WW was riding back in Season 2 or could it have been a glimpse of Cold Hands (riding an undead Horse rather than an Elk)?
My feeling was a preview of Cold Hands..made sense in context with the 3 eyed crow and the weirwood face etc.
I feel this series is much pacier over all the characters story lines. No bad thing as the last couple of books were overlong and drawn out.
My feeling was a preview of Cold Hands..made sense in context with the 3 eyed crow and the weirwood face etc.
I feel this series is much pacier over all the characters story lines. No bad thing as the last couple of books were overlong and drawn out.
Just looked up some images and it was the same horse as before (I couldn't recall the original horse having reins made from chains).
To be honest I'm pretty sure Cold Hands has been cut from the show, half the stuff he did in the books (with Sam) has already happened in the show and Bran getting a vision of where to go means he doesn't need a guide.
Summer, Jojen, Meera and Hodor will provide any protection Bran needs as they (unlike the book) have Dragonglass weapons in case a WW attacks them.
Ignoring the 'big event' itself what about Cersei fronting Brienne about loving Jamie...I don't recall anything like that happening in the books (although a while since I read). Are the writers going for a more overtly romanticised relationship between B & J?
This episode was written by GRRM so this comes directly from him, as opposed to the other writers making it up.
As George RR Martin wrote the episode himself, I think I would call it more than poetic licence. Perhaps more an intention that was not fully expressed in the books.
Well as there's two more books to go, so far unwritten, in that case, he's probably speeding things up for the TV series.
Actually I thought that the way it was done was rather crass and heavy handed, Cersei clearly had no inkling of anything much that had taken place on the journey, and suddenly she accuses Brienne of being in love with her brother. WTF? I'm going to have to go watch that bit again, I think I must have missed something.
Ignoring the 'big event' itself what about Cersei fronting Brienne about loving Jamie...I don't recall anything like that happening in the books (although a while since I read). Are the writers going for a more overtly romanticised relationship between B & J?
It seems that way, and I really dislike the change. It would have been so much more original (for television), if a male and female character could have that kind of relationship without becoming explicitly romantic. I don't want Brienne to just end up as Jaime's love interest. >:(
Comments
Marillion wasn't actually killed, just had his tongue cut out.
They might have had him make his way back to the Eyrie but only playing instrumentals now
Somewhat harder for him to deny his involvement as well
They could of course use Dontos but It would be just as easy to introduce some random guard/bard at the Eyrie one scene before and have them as the scapegoat.
Me too. Those last two scenes in the book are full of WTF moments- Littlefinger revealing he engineered Jon Arryn's murder; Lysa's fall through the moon door and Catelyn's return. If the last episode also shows Tyrion and Tywin's final confrontation, that episode will be mind blowing for viewers who haven't read the books.
I agree, it'll be easy to show a guard or someone in an earlier episode maybe trying to make a move on Sansa (like in the books) and then be present in Lysa's murder scene before being framed by Littlefinger. Marillion isn't really neccesary to be honest. I can see Dontos being murdered by Littlefinger after Sansa's escape like in the books too.
I also agree about what you said about Brienne and Lady Stoneheart. I can defintely see Brienne being involved in Lady Stoneheart's first appearance- whether she's been captured by her or if she's watching a Frey being hung from afar.
I wonder if the writers are going to start dropping hints about
Oberyn mentioned Rhaegar falling in love with someone else but he didn't say who IIRC?
(similar to how snippets have been given in the books and pieced together!)
It would be very interesting to see if non-readers pick up on it!
Did you ever read the Totally unspoiled Speculation thread at the Television Without Pity Forums?
You're only allowed to post in the thread if you have no prior knowledge of the books/show (so no Wiki/articles/interviews/next time previews etc).
Anyway they picked up on the fact that Jon's Mother could end up being important and R +L was even suggested at one point.
There was at least one book reader pretending to be a non reader in the early days though and it may well have been them that planted the R+L seed.
They've moved forums recently as TWOP is shutting down so things are a bit chaotic but I don't think anyone has yet worked out that Oberyn was talking about Lyanna.
Wow there is some interesting stuff there. A couple have touched on a theory that i see as plausible - dont want to say exactly what right now as its spoilerific!
Sansa mentioning in graphic detail what happened to her mother. Her neck being sliced to the bone (a very significant aspect of LS's entire character is the fact that she doesn't speak).
The end scene with The hound and Arya where there was a corpse with a noose around their neck and then later we see them ride off into the riverlands which were burning. All references directly from the books in connection to LS.
I missed it first time round but picked up Olenna palming the amethyst the second time round. I'm wondering if anyone who didn't know about this would have picked up on it.
I saw her fiddling with the necklace but did not see if there was a stone missing afterwards.
I think it may have been Margaery who actually placed it in the cup but it was left on the table next to Olenna for a while so it may have been her.
Maybe they'll have Jaime and/or Tyrion mention it at some point but they really needed the exchange about Valyrian steel at the Wedding breakfast for Tyrion to be suspicious.
Now that Joff's dead they may never give the answer or maybe the show will actually reveal that someone else was behind it and not Joff
Well, there's always the focussing on her when Tyrion picks up the offending cup.
I missed it too, spent too long wondering why Sansa wasn't wearing a hairnet, and thinking that if the necklace was going to be the substitute then those stones were far too big, for one to go missing and no-one notice. So then I was focusing on that little gold hair ornament she had.
Of course it was the giant amethyst that got palmed, I just watched that scene again, and the stone is missing.
If GRRM does not complete his next book until 2015 and series 5 comes out in 2015 he's never going to complete the last in one year.
The series producers said seven series, but I figured at least eight or nine. I am not so sure now.
BTW: The book is an enjoyable read though.
I'm pretty sure there was nothing like that in the book, I'm well into my second reading of the series, up to A Dance with Dragons, about 200 pages in, and apart from the fact that they keep thinking about each other, there is no romance in the relationship, or hints of feelings involved. This is the writers taking a slight poetic licence from nothing more than possible hints in the book.
Yeah, as you say, it's not like that in the books. Cercei doesn't confront Brienne. In fact, for a while, Jaime has Brienne imprisoned and guarded for her own good (Loras and Renly's ex-bannermen are about, believing her to be a "kingslayer"). Jaime and Brienne's relationship is more mutual respect, at least at the time of the story being depicted by the show, with the vague hint that it might blossom into something more, but nothing more than that.
As George RR Martin wrote the episode himself, I think I would call it more than poetic licence. Perhaps more an intention that was not fully expressed in the books.
My feeling was a preview of Cold Hands..made sense in context with the 3 eyed crow and the weirwood face etc.
I feel this series is much pacier over all the characters story lines. No bad thing as the last couple of books were overlong and drawn out.
Just looked up some images and it was the same horse as before (I couldn't recall the original horse having reins made from chains).
To be honest I'm pretty sure Cold Hands has been cut from the show, half the stuff he did in the books (with Sam) has already happened in the show and Bran getting a vision of where to go means he doesn't need a guide.
Summer, Jojen, Meera and Hodor will provide any protection Bran needs as they (unlike the book) have Dragonglass weapons in case a WW attacks them.
This episode was written by GRRM so this comes directly from him, as opposed to the other writers making it up.
Well as there's two more books to go, so far unwritten, in that case, he's probably speeding things up for the TV series.
Actually I thought that the way it was done was rather crass and heavy handed, Cersei clearly had no inkling of anything much that had taken place on the journey, and suddenly she accuses Brienne of being in love with her brother. WTF? I'm going to have to go watch that bit again, I think I must have missed something.
It seems that way, and I really dislike the change. It would have been so much more original (for television), if a male and female character could have that kind of relationship without becoming explicitly romantic. I don't want Brienne to just end up as Jaime's love interest. >:(