23% of Russians are already fascists, that's how many there voted for extreme right wing nutjob Zhironovsky. Putin himself has been doing his best to impersonate Hitler with his "protecting Russian citizens" act in Crimea and the same thing is going to happen in Eastern Ukraine.
Lavrov is just a typical Kremlin mouthpiece, spews the same propaganda as RT.
Putin himself is a Right wing politician, of course, but not as Right wing as the Ukrainian nationalists.
Also, the second placed candidate in the last presidential election in Russia was the Communist candidate, who polled 17% of the vote.
Zhironovsky polled just 6%, so I don't know where your 23% comes from.
Zhironovsky, the man who only a month ago wrote letters to Poland, Hungary and Romania, suggesting they take back regions of the Ukraine which previously belonged to them.
Zhironovsky, the man who only a month ago wrote letters to Poland, Hungary and Romania, suggesting they take back regions of the Ukraine which previously belonged to them.
He's a primitive nutter, but could be dangerous.
Zhirinovsky is a Fascist - like some of the Ukrainian ultra-nationalists.
23% of Russians are already fascists...
Lavrov is just a typical Kremlin mouthpiece, spews the same propaganda as RT.
The quite scary thing is that western media has gone downhill with the advent of the free internet.
Real investigative reporting is now more unaffordable and we all suffer because of it.
Thus the utter lies that RT often comes out with gets blurred by much of the regurgitated dross western media now utter.
And that awful Bush Blair legacy makes it feel like we have a far more unsafe confused world.
But what I do wonder, with the advent of the internet, how much do Russians really believe from their state controlled brain washing propaganda machines?
Zhironovsky, the man who only a month ago wrote letters to Poland, Hungary and Romania, suggesting they take back regions of the Ukraine which previously belonged to them.
He's a primitive nutter, but could be dangerous.
In his slightly younger days, apparently on something.
With adoring young male admirers and before his illness really set in:
Ideally, he would receive the medical assistance he needs.
What mental illness does he have then? Please cite the DSMIV or similar diagnostic manual listing the sysmptoms he demonstartes to justify your diagnosis or give your medical qualifications.
What mental illness does he have then? Please cite the DSMIV or similar diagnostic manual listing the sysmptoms he demonstartes to justify your diagnosis or give your medical qualifications.
Extensive life experience - and employment with what was Bromley Health Authority Mental Health Services at a hospital for the mentally ill, now closed.
I am certainly not prepared to refer to the American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) which is as faddish as high street fashion.
For example, in 1952 DSMI classified homosexuality as a mental illness.
Extensive life experience - and employment with what was Bromley Health Authority Mental Health Services at a hospital for the mentally ill, now closed.
I am certainly not prepared to refer to the American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) which is as faddish as high street fashion.
For example, in 1952 DSMI classified homosexuality as a mental illness.
Yes.
Employment as what? I asked what your medical qualifications were to make such a diagnosis. Are you a qualified Psychiatrist? And if you are how do you justify claiming someone is mentally ill based off youtube videos, what symptoms are they exhibiting, justify your diagnosis. The DSMIV is the standard diagnostic manual used for the diagnosis of mental illnesses and I am not asking you to use the 1952 version, if you prefer you can use the ICD10. To list their symptoms vs the diagnostic criteria for whatever mental illness you claim they have.
You are calling someone mentally ill as an insult. That you claim to have worked at a mental health hospital does not make doing so justified if anything it makes doing so worse.
Those leaflets were exposed as fake within hours. Of course, this did not stop the idiotic bungling embarrassment John Kerry from touting them as 'the real deal'.
Employment as what? I asked what your medical qualifications were to make such a diagnosis. Are you a qualified Psychiatrist? And if you are how do you justify claiming someone is mentally ill based off youtube videos, what symptoms are they exhibiting justify your diagnosis. The DSMIV is the standard diagnostic manual used for the diagnoses of mental illnesses and I am not asking you to use the 1952 version, if you prefer you can use the ICD10. To list their symptoms vs the diagnostic criteria for whatever mental illness you claim they have.
I don't prefer ICD10, DSMIV or any other secular bible. Such categorisation has always been about order and control rather than health and illness. The very last place anyone sensible should seek absolutes is in such broad brush devices. DSMIV will of course be replaced by a V, VI and VII and that negates everything else about it.
The first question anyone should ask is not whether another has qualifications to make a diagnosis but whether they have individual relevant experience. Political and economic research which reduces people to numbers is always going to be way off the mark. But for those engaged in it it is a fine way to turn their issues into earnings.
Better the devil you know has been my mantra and, at times, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Lavrov particularly has been impressive in this crisis and that should not have been wholly unexpected to the west.
This is very true - Lavrov has been consistently impressive, and not just in the current Ukraine crisis, but he was instrumental in heading off the bombing of Syria by the Obama regime, and also the deal to rid Syria of chemical weapons.
This is of course a stark contrast to the US side, where we have the halfwit bungler John Kerry and the raving lunatic Samantha Power.
This is very true - Lavrov has been consistently impressive, and not just in the current Ukraine crisis, but he was instrumental in heading off the bombing of Syria by the Obama regime, and also the deal to rid Syria of chemical weapons.
This is of course a stark contrast to the US side, where we have the halfwit bungler John Kerry and the raving lunatic Samantha Power.
Thursday’s agreement laid out concrete steps to "restore security for all citizens" and crucially urged "all illegal armed groups" to disarm and vacate "seized buildings".
.."All sides must refrain from any violence, intimidation or provocative actions," a joint statement issued after the Geneva talks said.
..Lavrov, speaking to reporters after the seven-hour negotiation, also spoke about the need for disarmament of unofficial armed groups, saying weapons should only be held by legitimate groups, and that the deal included "all regions of Ukraine".
So that excludes Crimea, because that's Russia now. It includes the Ukraine, so means their Su-27s and helicopters can return to base and stop intimidating the people they're flying over. And-
Ukraine’s former Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko, who is running for president with the Batkivshchina (Fatherland) party has announced the formation of the national resistance movement.
“Law enforcement structures and the army are failing to cope with their tasks because they have been plundered,” Batkivshchina’s press service quoted Timoshenko as saying on Tuesday. “That is why it is necessary to form special brigades in each city. Mobilization centres will be set up on the basis of our party’s offices, where everyone will be able to join people’s volunteer corps.”
and other private militias will need to be disarmed and disbanded by their leaders. It raises some other potentially tricky questions, like whether it was legal for the coup leaders to disband Berkut.
It's also largely dependent on whether the people in East or West Ukraine will actually listen and obey.
The population of east Ukraine are now, quite rightly, pointing out that the government buildings in Kiev are all illegally occupied by the unconstitutional and illegitimate 'government'. They say that they will leave their buildings when the Kiev fascist clique leave theirs, which seems fair enough.
Tymoshenko's idea to recreate the brown shirts in Ukraine sounds particularly ominous and desperate.
I don't prefer ICD10, DSMIV or any other secular bible. Such categorisation has always been about order and control rather than health and illness. The very last place anyone sensible should seek absolutes is in such broad brush devices. DSMIV will of course be replaced by a V, VI and VII and that negates everything else about it.
The first question anyone should ask is not whether another has qualifications to make a diagnosis but whether they have individual relevant experience. Political and economic research which reduces people to numbers is always going to be way off the mark. But for those engaged in it it is a fine way to turn their issues into earnings.
So in other words it is not your qualified medical opinion or based on any medical knowledge. You are using mental illness as an insult based on your prejudice and bigotry because to you they are obviously mentally ill as to be mentally ill is to be like them, telling people to rape a pregnant woman.
So in other words it is not your qualified medical opinion or based on any medical knowledge. You are using mental illness as an insult based on your prejudice and bigotry because to you they are obviously mentally ill as to be mentally ill is to be like them, telling people to rape a pregnant woman.
You are for some reason choosing to twist my words around. I do hope that it isn't wilful. During periods in the past when I have been on medication and in counselling at Mind etc for an anxiety condition I wasn't telling people to rape a pregnant woman. Nor no doubt were the majority of other people who were suffering from a mental illness. The same is true of the majority of people I met, and whose case notes I read in detail, when working in mental health and indeed Joey Deacon when earlier I met him socially, although he officially had a mental handicap. As did people our family raised money for via Scope. Well, actually that was called the Spastic Society in those days.
My work took place from 1984 no less than 32 years into the time of DSM. Many were in hospital for decades on account of "illness" that was nothing other than a reaction to unjust incarceration. Often for pregnancy out of wedlock. The DSM didn't help them. It turned their reaction into an illness with a label based on bogus science. Others were there having been gay in the 1940s and hence "ill". A few were merely occasional naturists. They had become more disturbed through institutionalisation until they couldn't live in the outside world and were then given another bogus label of illness. Most of it had been the dumping on them of illness not in them but society. There is absolutely no reason to believe that isn't precisely what happens via DSM and similar nonsense now.
That is not to say that telling people to rape a pregnant woman indicates an absence of mental illness. The manner in which it was done in the case of the Russian politician, and the fact that he has displayed a similar manner on very many occasions over decades, certainly isn't such an indicator. In fact, as I said, it is the opposite. Now you might persist in disagreeing with me for whatever reason only known to yourself. If that is based on your own experience of what you perceive to be health, so be it. However unstable anyone you have met might be, they won't have come close to having their finger close to a nuclear button. He has and yet his health isn't up to it.
The man was shouting incoherently and violently pushing men towards a pregnant woman ordering them to rape her so that the woman was sufficiently traumatised she ended up in hospital. If you consider not merely inaccurate to describe him as mentally ill but an insult then you clearly see mental illness as having a stigma. And it seems to me in rallying to his cause that you have some highly unusual - some might say downright peculiar - sympathies.
Turchynov's comments came as the United States deployed troops to Poland to begin a series of military exercises in four countries across Eastern Europe.
Strange how this things can begin with a simple bit of exercise. Just warming up and then <oops> an invasion..
The exercises are part of an effort announced last week aimed at reassuring NATO allies of America's commitment to the region's defence.
This is great news, and must be very reassuring for the NATO allies in question. Such committment in the face of 40,000+ troops massed on Ukraine's borders out of a possible 750,000+ active duty personnel and 2,000,000 reserves.
Pentagon press secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby said the exercises would last about a month, and involve roughly 600 troops.
Errm.. OK. Perhaps not.
ps.. Mixing metaphors maybe?
"No nation should threaten its neighbour by massing troops on the border. We call on Russia to pull these forces back. We call on Russia to stop supporting men, hiding behind masks, sewing unrest in eastern Ukraine."
I'm sure the babushkas of eastern Ukraine are quite happy to sew balaclavas. If not, they originated in the Crimea anyway, so could be considered national dress?
The "murdered councillor" has the same surname as the Chairman of the Ukraine Parliament. The one who stood down "for reasons of ill health" immediately following the replacing of democracy with "thugocracy". His first name starts with the same letter too but in the case of the "murdered" one that name is Vladimir. It would be of course.
Turchynov, a close ally of "Nukem" Tymoshenko, is the warmongering President not supported by well over three quarters of all Ukrainian people. This beacon of western desirability was from 1987 to 1990 Head of the Agitation and Propaganda Division of the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast Komsomol (Communist Youth League) Committee.
He was subsequently political adviser to Leonid Kuchma, then Head of the Dnipropetrovsk-based Pivdenmash missile manufacturer. Between 2005 and 2008 he was the Head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU). Any expectation of an honest account of occurrences and a non-military solution from him is wholly crackers.
With all of the persistent calls from the Ukraine "Government", the United States and the EU for Putin to stop what is happening in the East, one question is never asked. Just how exactly can he achieve the impossible? They know he can't do anything and that is why they are asking him to do something. They aren't serious about peace.
As for today's pictures depicting members of the Russian army in Ukraine, they are Forrest Gump when he grew a long beard and are fast approaching 70. If nothing else, I think we can safely say on the basis of what is being presented that Uncle Sam never travelled to the moon. It is very possible, though, the moon travelled into him.
. If nothing else, I think we can safely say on the basis of what is being presented that Uncle Sam never travelled to the moon. It is very possible, though, the moon travelled into him.
The west is acting on hard evidence, not the words of a Ukrainian politician, screenwriter, and economist who has branched out from writing to acting. The quality of the evidence has been enough to convince global leaders like Kerry that Russia is backing an anti-Jewish campaign.
This evidence is sufficient for the US to have despatched a Sacrifical Goat class frigate to the Black Sea-
Having previously been delayed by running aground. It's an odd choice of vessel given the Perry-class frigates were originally designed as anti-air, but then had all their anti-air and most of their anti-ship capability removed. She is due to be decommissioned in 2015, or possibly scrapped this year.
The "murdered councillor" has the same surname as the Chairman of the Ukraine Parliament. The one who stood down "for reasons of ill health" immediately following the replacing of democracy with "thugocracy". His first name starts with the same letter too but in the case of the "murdered" one that name is Vladimir. It would be of course.
Turchynov, a close ally of "Nukem" Tymoshenko, is the warmongering President not supported by well over three quarters of all Ukrainian people. This beacon of western desirability was from 1987 to 1990 Head of the Agitation and Propaganda Division of the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast Komsomol (Communist Youth League) Committee.
He was subsequently political adviser to Leonid Kuchma, then Head of the Dnipropetrovsk-based Pivdenmash missile manufacturer. Between 2005 and 2008 he was the Head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU). Any expectation of an honest account of occurrences and a non-military solution from him is wholly crackers.
With all of the persistent calls from the Ukraine "Government", the United States and the EU for Putin to stop what is happening in the East, one question is never asked. Just how exactly can he achieve the impossible? They know he can't do anything and that is why they are asking him to do something. They aren't serious about peace.
As for today's pictures depicting members of the Russian army in Ukraine, they are Forrest Gump when he grew a long beard and are fast approaching 70. If nothing else, I think we can safely say on the basis of what is being presented that Uncle Sam never travelled to the moon. It is very possible, though, the moon travelled into him.
"Thugocracy" "Warmongering president" and "nukem Tymoshenko"!
What utter nonsense, you've obviously had an overdose of RT.
The thugs are the Russian provacatuers in Eastern Ukraine sent by Putin.
In what way is Turchynov a warmonger? He's trying to avoid war, it's Putin who's the warmonger this is the second country he's invaded in recent years.
"Nukem" Tymoshenko, as Ukraine doesn't currently have any nuclear weapons that is a ridiculous statement, though it now has a right to after Putin broke the conditions of the 1994 Budapest treaty.
Russian soldiers on Ukraine's Eastern border is not something which can be dismissed lightly, Putin is trying to divide and destroy Ukraine, his recent comments have made that obvious, that despot is the biggest threat to World peace today.
"Thugocracy" "Warmongering president" and "nukem Tymoshenko"!
What utter nonsense, you've obviously had an overdose of RT.
The thugs are the Russian provacatuers in Eastern Ukraine sent by Putin.
In what way is Turchynov a warmonger? He's trying to avoid war, it's Putin who's the warmonger this is the second country he's invaded in recent years.
"Nukem" Tymoshenko, as Ukraine doesn't currently have any nuclear weapons that is a ridiculous statement, though it now have a right to after Putin broke the conditions of the 1994 Budapest treaty. Russian soldiers on Ukraine's Eastern border is not something which can be dismissed lightly, Putin is trying to divide and destroy Ukraine, his recent comments have made that obvious, that despot is the biggest threat to World peace today.
Indeed. I mean, what right have Russian soldiers to be in Russia?
I hear the Yanks are sending a few troops to Poland, for "training" purposes too.
Comments
Putin himself is a Right wing politician, of course, but not as Right wing as the Ukrainian nationalists.
Also, the second placed candidate in the last presidential election in Russia was the Communist candidate, who polled 17% of the vote.
Zhironovsky polled just 6%, so I don't know where your 23% comes from.
He's a primitive nutter, but could be dangerous.
Zhirinovsky is a Fascist - like some of the Ukrainian ultra-nationalists.
Fortunately his following is small.
The quite scary thing is that western media has gone downhill with the advent of the free internet.
Real investigative reporting is now more unaffordable and we all suffer because of it.
Thus the utter lies that RT often comes out with gets blurred by much of the regurgitated dross western media now utter.
And that awful Bush Blair legacy makes it feel like we have a far more unsafe confused world.
But what I do wonder, with the advent of the internet, how much do Russians really believe from their state controlled brain washing propaganda machines?
I suppose John Kerry isn't a White House mouthpiece but is totally objective?
Government Minsters are expected to quote Government policy in case you hadn't noticed.
:rolleyes:
In his slightly younger days, apparently on something.
With adoring young male admirers and before his illness really set in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le4H_txnY-o
Had it not been for Putin, many of us wouldn't be here by now.
Are you calling someone mentally ill as an insult?
He is quite clearly mentally ill.
That is a statement and not an insult.
Ideally, he would receive the medical assistance he needs.
He's clearly drunk in that video.
Extensive life experience - and employment with what was Bromley Health Authority Mental Health Services at a hospital for the mentally ill, now closed.
I am certainly not prepared to refer to the American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) which is as faddish as high street fashion.
For example, in 1952 DSMI classified homosexuality as a mental illness.
Yes.
You are calling someone mentally ill as an insult. That you claim to have worked at a mental health hospital does not make doing so justified if anything it makes doing so worse.
Those leaflets were exposed as fake within hours. Of course, this did not stop the idiotic bungling embarrassment John Kerry from touting them as 'the real deal'.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/.premium-1.586174
I don't prefer ICD10, DSMIV or any other secular bible. Such categorisation has always been about order and control rather than health and illness. The very last place anyone sensible should seek absolutes is in such broad brush devices. DSMIV will of course be replaced by a V, VI and VII and that negates everything else about it.
The first question anyone should ask is not whether another has qualifications to make a diagnosis but whether they have individual relevant experience. Political and economic research which reduces people to numbers is always going to be way off the mark. But for those engaged in it it is a fine way to turn their issues into earnings.
This is very true - Lavrov has been consistently impressive, and not just in the current Ukraine crisis, but he was instrumental in heading off the bombing of Syria by the Obama regime, and also the deal to rid Syria of chemical weapons.
This is of course a stark contrast to the US side, where we have the halfwit bungler John Kerry and the raving lunatic Samantha Power.
Totally agree.
The population of east Ukraine are now, quite rightly, pointing out that the government buildings in Kiev are all illegally occupied by the unconstitutional and illegitimate 'government'. They say that they will leave their buildings when the Kiev fascist clique leave theirs, which seems fair enough.
Tymoshenko's idea to recreate the brown shirts in Ukraine sounds particularly ominous and desperate.
You are for some reason choosing to twist my words around. I do hope that it isn't wilful. During periods in the past when I have been on medication and in counselling at Mind etc for an anxiety condition I wasn't telling people to rape a pregnant woman. Nor no doubt were the majority of other people who were suffering from a mental illness. The same is true of the majority of people I met, and whose case notes I read in detail, when working in mental health and indeed Joey Deacon when earlier I met him socially, although he officially had a mental handicap. As did people our family raised money for via Scope. Well, actually that was called the Spastic Society in those days.
My work took place from 1984 no less than 32 years into the time of DSM. Many were in hospital for decades on account of "illness" that was nothing other than a reaction to unjust incarceration. Often for pregnancy out of wedlock. The DSM didn't help them. It turned their reaction into an illness with a label based on bogus science. Others were there having been gay in the 1940s and hence "ill". A few were merely occasional naturists. They had become more disturbed through institutionalisation until they couldn't live in the outside world and were then given another bogus label of illness. Most of it had been the dumping on them of illness not in them but society. There is absolutely no reason to believe that isn't precisely what happens via DSM and similar nonsense now.
That is not to say that telling people to rape a pregnant woman indicates an absence of mental illness. The manner in which it was done in the case of the Russian politician, and the fact that he has displayed a similar manner on very many occasions over decades, certainly isn't such an indicator. In fact, as I said, it is the opposite. Now you might persist in disagreeing with me for whatever reason only known to yourself. If that is based on your own experience of what you perceive to be health, so be it. However unstable anyone you have met might be, they won't have come close to having their finger close to a nuclear button. He has and yet his health isn't up to it.
The man was shouting incoherently and violently pushing men towards a pregnant woman ordering them to rape her so that the woman was sufficiently traumatised she ended up in hospital. If you consider not merely inaccurate to describe him as mentally ill but an insult then you clearly see mental illness as having a stigma. And it seems to me in rallying to his cause that you have some highly unusual - some might say downright peculiar - sympathies.
Turchynov's comments came as the United States deployed troops to Poland to begin a series of military exercises in four countries across Eastern Europe.
Strange how this things can begin with a simple bit of exercise. Just warming up and then <oops> an invasion..
The exercises are part of an effort announced last week aimed at reassuring NATO allies of America's commitment to the region's defence.
This is great news, and must be very reassuring for the NATO allies in question. Such committment in the face of 40,000+ troops massed on Ukraine's borders out of a possible 750,000+ active duty personnel and 2,000,000 reserves.
Pentagon press secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby said the exercises would last about a month, and involve roughly 600 troops.
Errm.. OK. Perhaps not.
ps.. Mixing metaphors maybe?
"No nation should threaten its neighbour by massing troops on the border. We call on Russia to pull these forces back. We call on Russia to stop supporting men, hiding behind masks, sewing unrest in eastern Ukraine."
I'm sure the babushkas of eastern Ukraine are quite happy to sew balaclavas. If not, they originated in the Crimea anyway, so could be considered national dress?
Turchynov, a close ally of "Nukem" Tymoshenko, is the warmongering President not supported by well over three quarters of all Ukrainian people. This beacon of western desirability was from 1987 to 1990 Head of the Agitation and Propaganda Division of the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast Komsomol (Communist Youth League) Committee.
He was subsequently political adviser to Leonid Kuchma, then Head of the Dnipropetrovsk-based Pivdenmash missile manufacturer. Between 2005 and 2008 he was the Head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU). Any expectation of an honest account of occurrences and a non-military solution from him is wholly crackers.
With all of the persistent calls from the Ukraine "Government", the United States and the EU for Putin to stop what is happening in the East, one question is never asked. Just how exactly can he achieve the impossible? They know he can't do anything and that is why they are asking him to do something. They aren't serious about peace.
As for today's pictures depicting members of the Russian army in Ukraine, they are Forrest Gump when he grew a long beard and are fast approaching 70. If nothing else, I think we can safely say on the basis of what is being presented that Uncle Sam never travelled to the moon. It is very possible, though, the moon travelled into him.
The west is acting on hard evidence, not the words of a Ukrainian politician, screenwriter, and economist who has branched out from writing to acting. The quality of the evidence has been enough to convince global leaders like Kerry that Russia is backing an anti-Jewish campaign.
This evidence is sufficient for the US to have despatched a Sacrifical Goat class frigate to the Black Sea-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Taylor_%28FFG-50%29
Having previously been delayed by running aground. It's an odd choice of vessel given the Perry-class frigates were originally designed as anti-air, but then had all their anti-air and most of their anti-ship capability removed. She is due to be decommissioned in 2015, or possibly scrapped this year.
What utter nonsense, you've obviously had an overdose of RT.
The thugs are the Russian provacatuers in Eastern Ukraine sent by Putin.
In what way is Turchynov a warmonger? He's trying to avoid war, it's Putin who's the warmonger this is the second country he's invaded in recent years.
"Nukem" Tymoshenko, as Ukraine doesn't currently have any nuclear weapons that is a ridiculous statement, though it now has a right to after Putin broke the conditions of the 1994 Budapest treaty.
Russian soldiers on Ukraine's Eastern border is not something which can be dismissed lightly, Putin is trying to divide and destroy Ukraine, his recent comments have made that obvious, that despot is the biggest threat to World peace today.
Indeed. I mean, what right have Russian soldiers to be in Russia?
I hear the Yanks are sending a few troops to Poland, for "training" purposes too.