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Radio Caroline ... Is it time for a change now?

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    G.F.M.G.F.M. Posts: 4,065
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    zorbas wrote: »
    My sentiments exactly. I was a big supporter of Caroline, but musically the "official" Radio Caroline just does not appeal to me one bit. Caroline North from Liverpool has been a breath of fresh air. Dare I suggest that the future lies with the "official" Radio Caroline adopting a 60's 70's 80's format as the main service, with a Caroline Extra providing the "hippy" service, like in the Caroline Overdrive days.

    I doubt that this will happen, I get the impression that the main body of the 'official' radio Caroline supporters see it as more of a 'club' rather than a traditional radio station. And they are quite happy with that club. (I dont mean any criticism here, before anyone kicks off).
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    MikeBrMikeBr Posts: 7,905
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    zorbas wrote: »
    My sentiments exactly. I was a big supporter of Caroline, but musically the "official" Radio Caroline just does not appeal to me one bit. Caroline North from Liverpool has been a breath of fresh air. Dare I suggest that the future lies with the "official" Radio Caroline adopting a 60's 70's 80's format as the main service, with a Caroline Extra providing the "hippy" service, like in the Caroline Overdrive days.

    Can't see a need for Radio Caroline to switch to a different name if/when a second stream is launched, each stream would stand as a separate service, you might want to rethink the name Caroline Extra. The presenters, many of whom do live shows and have worked on the stations for years including offshore, do so voluntarily because they like the present format and the freedom it gives them to select material for their shows within a decades based format, so that there's not a preponderance of 70s music for example which came out in the Top 500 choices. It's the same format as was used on the Mi Amigo in the late 70's period, I think there's been a slight tweak to encourage more new music to be played hence the separate Countdown programme. You'd need extra volunteers to run any second stream, as well as cover the additional costs.
    G.F.M. wrote: »
    I doubt that this will happen, I get the impression that the main body of the 'official' radio Caroline supporters see it as more of a 'club' rather than a traditional radio station. And they are quite happy with that club. (I dont mean any criticism here, before anyone kicks off).

    The phrase "being part of a musical club" or similar was used by someone on the 70s Caroline panel at either Rochester or Amsterdam, there wasn't a station with that format in Europe then, because of the MOA there was little if anything in the press and albums were racking up large sales figures. As well as listening to Caroline I was subscribing to music magazines which you couldn't get at Smiths such as Zigzag. All listener supported radio stations with a music format are in essence that, as I said earlier in the thread there are many well established ones in the US.
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    AmaraAmara Posts: 5,376
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    The fact that there appears to be no one in charge of programming at Radio Caroline is the problem. I know there was often a struggle on the ships in the 70's and 80's where certain egos wanted to dictate music policy which was why the sound of the station often changed following a tender.
    I appreciate that presenters are volunteers but surely they could adhere to the music policy?
    It is obvious with the many comments being posted about Radio Caroline North that a 60/70/80's format would go down well with listeners. I do agree that a Caroline Extra could perhaps be run on the lines of Caroline Overdrive to satisfy those who prefer the more obsecure music.
    Its just a shame that Radio Caroline is so set in this time warp that nothing will change.
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    MikeBrMikeBr Posts: 7,905
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    Amara wrote: »
    The fact that there appears to be no one in charge of programming at Radio Caroline is the problem.

    Cliff Osborne is the Caroline programme manager, has been for quite some years, writes articles in just about every issue of Horizon for supporters, including one called "No need to reinvent the wheel, everything's just fine" in Jan/Feb 2013. He also was in charge of preparing the community licence application forms, which are quite detailed.

    Music policy and format, which is the more or less the same format as on the Mi Amigo from at least, and possibly before, it sailed over after the MOA, explained in more detail than I have been doing here:
    http://www.woodleynet.co.uk/caroline/presenters/c-osbourne.htm

    As he says as well as doing all this voluntarily he has a day job.

    Many other interviews with Caroline staff available here for those interested, click presenters menu.
    Amara wrote: »
    = I appreciate that presenters are volunteers but surely they could adhere to the music policy?

    They do as explained in my post earlier today.

    As to Caroline's music policy remember that the Tom Lodge format, on Caroline North and later Caroline South, before the Solomon plug records came in, was total free choice.

    "For their shows they were not allowed preparation for their programs. But they were allowed to collect the music that they might want to play, LPs and 45s, and place them all around them in the studio. Then they could only pick the next record when the one before was playing. So they had to be spontaneous and feel their show." (See interview with Tom on the presenter profiles)

    Tom broadcast regularly on the Radio Caroline satellite/internet service and his son continues to do so.
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    Mark WatkinsMark Watkins Posts: 169
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    Picking up the point that "some people like to moan" that write letters (in order to gauge whether a particular view represents a quantity of opinion) I would say writing in (or ringing in for that matter) actually requires effort and is more likely to be valid (as an opinion) and representative of a number of other people's views who are often too busy or lazy or shy to make contact. There's a difference of course if the same person writes often (poss. perceived as moaning on a hobby horse or two), even so, it still requires a thought and an action = effort = validity. Everyone has a valid input into Caroline, stats or no stats, but one has to be careful if one is actually involved in the radio stn, as it looks like one is defending it all the time instead of considering an alternative point of view . For me, radio cannot be taught in a classroom but learned in the studio.
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    MikeBrMikeBr Posts: 7,905
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    Picking up the point that "some people like to moan" that write letters (in order to gauge whether a particular view represents a quantity of opinion) I would say writing in (or ringing in for that matter) actually requires effort and is more likely to be valid (as an opinion) and representative of a number of other people's views who are often too busy or lazy or shy to make contact. There's a difference of course if the same person writes often (poss. perceived as moaning on a hobby horse or two), even so, it still requires a thought and an action = effort = validity. Everyone has a valid input into Caroline, stats or no stats, but one has to be careful if one is actually involved in the radio stn, as it looks like one is defending it all the time instead of considering an alternative point of view . For me, radio cannot be taught in a classroom but learned in the studio.

    Everyone's opinion is no more or less valid than anyone elses, all you often see on messageboards, in newspapers, and on social media is the opinion of a very tiny, often in single figures, self selecting unrepresentative sample. Some people write the same thing over and over and over again, outside of social media often not posting under their own name, which I've no problem with up to a point but if things get too personal I do, and sometimes using multiple identities.

    The only valid input into, as opposed to opinion about, any radio station are to the BBC stations as we all pay for them, which is why I have for many years supported subscription rather than the licence fee despite the fact according to a regular poster on here this is fascist propaganda, which in itself says why Private Eye has a regular column satirising messageboards and many of the people who use them.

    Commercial radio stations, as well as the BBC, do their own properly set up representative research, look at audience figures, demographics of the audience, whether that is what they are aiming for etc etc. and internet radio stations, many of whom like Radio Caroline are listener supported and/or run from the stations staff's own resources can do whatever they like, they don't even have a licenced format.

    Charlie Brooker made this point very well in one of his Newswipe or Screenwipe programme, in the past letters from the green ink brigade got thrown away, now their opinions get published giving them an undeserved validity in some eyes. He quit his Guardian column because they refused to turn off online comments on his articles, which no one takes a scrap of notice of, unless they are based on personal experience or add facts to an article, they are just a way to attract people to newspaper websites.
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    bigd558bigd558 Posts: 215
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    I first heard Radio Caroline from the North Sea in the early 70's with it's Album format. The current Caroline does an excellent job overall in keeping that format relevant for today.
    Caroline PC Cliff O wrote an excellent presenters guide which allows the DJs maximum freedom of choice within that format and the current Caroline has some excellent broadcasters.

    I would never advocate throwing away Carolines uniqueness. Long may she continue to provide a genuine alternative, which is obviously popular with those that support her financially

    However I do think that a separate oldies formatted Caroline, IF DONE REALLY WELL, would bring additional listeners and revenue. While I have huge respect for what Caroline has achieved, I'm not sure that the current Caroline organisation has the people to make an oldies pop format work? This may be why Caroline Extra never happened

    I do believe that a 2nd Caroline with an oldies format would be hugely popular. It could still be run along the "non commercial" lines that Caroline has pioneered.

    For comparison; an earlier post mention Caroline having 3000 likes on facebook. Caroline North from Liverpool achieved over 1300 likes in only a matter of weeks.
    In terms of streaming numbers, another post mentioned, I think, over 400 simultaneous listeners to Caroline.
    I know that Caroline North peaked at around 330 simultaneous listeners towards the end of its four (ish) weeks on air.
    I also agree with other posters that the destruction of "Gold" has left an open goal for a real , wide playlist, professionally presented, oldies station to mop up listeners.
    This is the perfect time for Caroline to capitalise on its 60's heritage, perhaps in partnership with others who love the kind of format delivered by Caroline North.
    I do hope that the opportunity is taken
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    richie wildrichie wild Posts: 9,896
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    bigd558 wrote: »
    I do hope that the opportunity is taken

    So do I, especially for those south of a Magic AM's coverage
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    Mark WatkinsMark Watkins Posts: 169
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    Mike , you certainly have valid facts & figures & considered views - but - perhaps this stats mind leads you to "talk" in absolutes? - and so - can I please suggest - the unintended result is to sometimes miss the validity of what other posters are actually saying? not just on this thread? Please try and see the other side put e.g why not acknowledge (at least) some of the suggestions for improvements in Radio Caroline, even if you disagree with them, or can't effect changes (not sure if you are a presenter on the stn or not. If you are then you will be associated (by default) with defending Caroline at times, not helpful to open debate). Radio Caroline is a great stn, I think what we all are saying (if I may be so bold and make a sweeping statement not based on stats but gut instinct) is that in some respects it perhaps needs to get with it a bit more (based on constructive feedback here & elsewhere) and so get away from forever dining out on a 60's pirate meal ticket... Cheers for taking this on board (pun intended)...oh, quoting Charlie Brooker holds no sway with me!
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    MikeBrMikeBr Posts: 7,905
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    Mike , you certainly have valid facts & figures & considered views - but - perhaps this stats mind leads you to "talk" in absolutes? - and so - can I please suggest - the unintended result is to sometimes miss the validity of what other posters are actually saying? not just on this thread? Please try and see the other side put e.g why not acknowledge (at least) some of the suggestions for improvements in Radio Caroline, even if you disagree with them, or can't effect changes (not sure if you are a presenter on the stn or not. If you are then you will be associated (by default) with defending Caroline at times, not helpful to open debate). Radio Caroline is a great stn, I think what we all are saying (if I may be so bold and make a sweeping statement not based on stats but gut instinct) is that in some respects it perhaps needs to get with it a bit more (based on constructive feedback here & elsewhere) and so get away from forever dining out on a 60's pirate meal ticket... Cheers for taking this on board (pun intended)...oh, quoting Charlie Brooker holds no sway with me!

    I'm not a presenter on the station, nor ever a member of the Ross Revenge support group, either by making monthly contributions or by spending weekends working on the ship. I'm posting my own personal opinion, no more, no less, sometimes based on facts or perspectives that I don't think have been considered. Use the webshop for pirate radio anorak stuff, not branded souvenirs, do Easy Fund Raising which costs me nothing and so far has bought Caroline a tin of paint, did a one minimum donation towards the Ross on a fund raising weekend when I thought I would have a good chance of winning one of the many Dylan and other prizes they had on offer but didn't. That's how US listener funded radio works, prize draw fundraisers for non regular donators, and if you don't win the money goes to the station costs, or in Caroline's case more the Ross Revenge.

    Any constructive opinion on here is fine, sometimes I reply, sometimes not, I've read the two posts before yours and not replied. I was quoting Charlie Brooker to emphasize the point I'd already made about some people who use messageboards and social media., I could give you a long list of others I could quote. To me you are failing to acknowledge this, I've experienced or seen this time and time again, including personal abuse and harrassment when helping to moderate a list and directly on social media due to daring to have a different opinion or objecting to harrassment, abuse and false information being posted, and that was when discussing Radio Caroline.

    We are not discussing anything of great importance in the real world.
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    AmaraAmara Posts: 5,376
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    I agree Caroline to me is set in a time warp from the 70's musically it was more with it in the 80's when it came back from the Ross. The only thing missing is the Loving Awareness jingles. I feel it needs a new direction which in part would get it back to its roots. UK radio has a void since Global crucified Gold and Caroline is the ideal station to fill it. Time to leave the obsecure albums to Seagull.
    There is no need for two album stations out there after all Seagull was derived from Caroline anyway.
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    morayloonmorayloon Posts: 216
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    MikeBr wrote: »
    I'm not a presenter on the station
    And there was me thinking you were Mike Brill, presenter and person looking after the computers at Radio Caroline. On air 5pm-8pm this very evening.
    You certainly seem to know a lot about the station:)
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    MikeBrMikeBr Posts: 7,905
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    morayloon wrote: »
    And there was me thinking you were Mike Brill, presenter and person looking after the computers at Radio Caroline. On air 5pm-8pm this very evening.
    You certainly seem to know a lot about the station:)

    I see the confusion now :) Mike's not a presenter I regularly listen to either.
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    LaurelandHardyLaurelandHardy Posts: 3,806
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    Amara wrote: »
    I agree Caroline to me is set in a time warp from the 70's musically it was more with it in the 80's when it came back from the Ross. The only thing missing is the Loving Awareness jingles. I feel it needs a new direction which in part would get it back to its roots. UK radio has a void since Global crucified Gold and Caroline is the ideal station to fill it. Time to leave the obsecure albums to Seagull.
    There is no need for two album stations out there after all Seagull was derived from Caroline anyway.

    Which is what I was suggesting at the start if this thread. I think it is time for the station to buck up it's ideas a little. I am quite happy for it to stay as it is (apart from those awful Tuesday evening programmes!) but I feel it can do better.
    Many times I have walked around various towns wearing my 5 Ships Radio Caroline T-shirt and people have commented "Radio Caroline? That's going back a bit isn't it?" or "I used to listen to Radio Caroline, such a pity it is no longer with us!" People just don't realise that Caroline is still with us and the only people to blame for this are Radio Caroline themselves as they don't let people know of their existence unless something drastic or celebratory happens.
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    MikeBrMikeBr Posts: 7,905
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    Amara wrote: »
    Whilst that is true there are also 2 Dutch run oldies internet stations Caroline 259 & Caroline 319 plus Caroline Extra which is from Neil Gates I believe so adding Kent can be useful.

    Everyone knows that Radio Caroline is the station being talked about in this thread, it's been clear throughout. If you put Radio Caroline into google you get the station website and then their Wikipedia entry.

    If you put Caroline Kent in you get the twitter feed, Linkedin entry, Telegraph biography, Instagram page and Sabotage Times entry of one or possibly two journalists of that name followed by endless entries about others.
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    zigthedogzigthedog Posts: 344
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    With the exception of Dell Richardson's Good Rocking Tonight Show on Tuesday evenings I rarley now listen to Radio Caroline. It's sad but I've listened to Caroline since those very first transmissions in 1964 but this days I feel it has very little to offer. Apart from that one show they no longer cater for my musical tastes, in otherwords Rockabilly, Rock 'n' Roll, Doo Wop etc. There is far more out there than the regular stuff from the 50s & 60s played by the "Oldies stations" and shows such as Dell's are few and far between. I long for a genuine Oldies Station that plays a good selection of music from the 50s & 60s in particular recordings that are rarely played over the air these days.
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    number6number6 Posts: 1,131
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    zigthedog wrote: »
    With the exception of Dell Richardson's Good Rocking Tonight Show on Tuesday evenings I rarley now listen to Radio Caroline. It's sad but I've listened to Caroline since those very first transmissions in 1964 but this days I feel it has very little to offer. Apart from that one show they no longer cater for my musical tastes, in otherwords Rockabilly, Rock 'n' Roll, Doo Wop etc. There is far more out there than the regular stuff from the 50s & 60s played by the "Oldies stations" and shows such as Dell's are few and far between. I long for a genuine Oldies Station that plays a good selection of music from the 50s & 60s in particular recordings that are rarely played over the air these days.
    We're a strange bunch. Good Rocking Tonight is one of the few shows that I switch off on Caroline.
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    Les WiresLes Wires Posts: 6,610
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    I agree with the comments made by bigd558 earlier in the thread.
    It would be a pity to change this unique album format, it is so different from almost anything else today across all platforms. Listening to the top500 I was impressed at not only the music selection but excellent balanced presentation.

    Certainly a separate oldies format may work, particularly with the demise of Gold. It would be a pleasure to hear a 50/60/70s format with some known and lesser known tracks presented in the less familiar but professional Caroline way.
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    MrRayDOMrRayDO Posts: 1,144
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    MikeBr wrote: »
    Everyone knows that Radio Caroline is the station being talked about in this thread, it's been clear throughout. If you put Radio Caroline into google you get the station website and then their Wikipedia entry.

    If you put Caroline Kent in you get the twitter feed, Linkedin entry, Telegraph biography, Instagram page and Sabotage Times entry of one or possibly two journalists of that name followed by endless entries about others.

    i just google caroline kent and you know what caroline kent pop up and photos of the ross lol
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    MikeBrMikeBr Posts: 7,905
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    MrRayDO wrote: »
    i just google caroline kent and you know what caroline kent pop up and photos of the ross lol

    You've put Radio in front of it I think unless I have a different Google. You essentially get the same result as Radio Caroline so no need to put Kent after the name as Google, the press, BBC, any member of the public who is not as savvy as people on this forum will be directed to the same place anyway as was said earlier.
    number6 wrote: »
    We're a strange bunch. Good Rocking Tonight is one of the few shows that I switch off on Caroline.

    I don't listen to Dell but do listen to Bernie Keith's Rock N Roll Heaven for my two hour weekly rock n roll fix, he mentioned and complimented Dell's long running show recently. I think there's a gap in UK radio coverage of rock n roll, particularly since Mark Lamarr left Radio 2 so the more shows the better for me. The sponsors of the show are the listeners themselves.
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    Condor7Condor7 Posts: 423
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    Which is what I was suggesting at the start if this thread. I think it is time for the station to buck up it's ideas a little. I am quite happy for it to stay as it is (apart from those awful Tuesday evening programmes!) but I feel it can do better.
    Many times I have walked around various towns wearing my 5 Ships Radio Caroline T-shirt and people have commented "Radio Caroline? That's going back a bit isn't it?" or "I used to listen to Radio Caroline, such a pity it is no longer with us!" People just don't realise that Caroline is still with us and the only people to blame for this are Radio Caroline themselves as they don't let people know of their existence unless something drastic or celebratory happens.

    I couldn't agree more.
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    reverse_diodereverse_diode Posts: 950
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    Radio Caroline is still with us??? Blimey, I shall tune into 963Khz straight away.
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    Kitt 2000Kitt 2000 Posts: 1,108
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    I've listened to Caroline since I was in my pram in 70's...

    I can honestly say its as good today as its always been.
    I would hate the station I have known and loved all my life to change..

    Caroline works because of the great team behind it, lots of hard work goes on both on and off air..

    The turn out at the 50th party birthday was amazing, such great people there..

    I hope Caroline keeps its unique format for many many years to come..
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    oscar1oscar1 Posts: 5,080
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    Kitt 2000 wrote: »
    I've listened to Caroline since I was in my pram in 70's...

    I can honestly say its as good today as its always been.
    I would hate the station I have known and loved all my life to change..

    Caroline works because of the great team behind it, lots of hard work goes on both on and off air..

    The turn out at the 50th party birthday was amazing, such great people there..

    I hope Caroline keeps its unique format for many many years to come..

    I listened from the first time she set sail in the 60's and to me THAT was the best time ......
    Regards
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    Kitt 2000Kitt 2000 Posts: 1,108
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    oscar1 wrote: »
    I listened from the first time she set sail in the 60's and to me THAT was the best time ......
    Regards

    I have to disagree..

    People seem to have rose tinted glasses about the 60's..

    I do with the 80's as i was growing up and I was of course young...

    Technology has changed of course, times have change, but at the end of the day, its still Radio Caroline..
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