.-you'll see the brother rub his finger across his lip in the gallery,(probably to say SHUT UP !!) ...anyway.....important bit, is you'll hear OP say
I was scared.... I wanted to ask Reeva why she's phoning the Police :o:o
Not important but later on you'll hear Nel pressing OP about the Duvet, he pressed and pressed OP on this point - ....I lurved the way Nel said 'Duvay' ..............
Brilliant!! 17.00. And just before Aimee and Carl really on the edge of their seats with Carl doing the lip rubby thing.
I would love to know what the official court transcript says as it is as clear as a very very clear thing.
I'm sure it's probably been said, from page 562 ( where I am). Lots of talk about Frank. Could he be the person who picked OP up after the highway shooting? Frank or OPs father?
.-you'll see the brother rub his finger across his lip in the gallery,(probably to say SHUT UP !!) ...anyway.....important bit, is you'll hear OP say
I was scared.... I wanted to ask Reeva why she's phoning the Police :o:o
Not important but later on you'll hear Nel pressing OP about the Duvet, he pressed and pressed OP on this point - ....I lurved the way Nel said 'Duvay' ..............
I'm glad you have found this. This is one of the times when I wondered whether everything that the witnesses were saying could actually be heard in court (and not just on the recording). I couldn't understand why it wasn't followed up.
Probably seems like I'm just contradicting you, but you bring up valuable points.
Disease or brain damage has to be supported by solid medical evidence. We were talking about this last week.....there'd have to be reports, x-rays, a neurosurgeon.
This would amount to a plea of diminished responsibility, I think....and Roux has not breathed the slightest word about this. And it does not form part of the plea explanation. His defence is putative self-defence, even if he does appear to have buggered that up.
Panic attacks, a sense of vulnerability, perhaps severe anxiety......quite probably. I expect they've got someone on board for this.
Interestingly, so does Nel. If Roux brings in psychiatric evidence, then. Nel can request to re-open his case and bring his own psychiatrist/psychologist in rebuttal. I think that's the bald guy behind Nel who wasn't there today.
Should add, that we know Nel has a psychologist because he mentioned him today.
The thing is would Oscar being as arrogant and narcissistic ever be willing to admit there is something wrong with mentally, he doesn't see himself as anything less than perfect.
I'm glad you have found this. This is one of the times when I wondered whether everything that the witnesses were saying could actually be heard in court (and not just on the recording). I couldn't understand why it wasn't followed up.
Hopefully, and i'll eat Oldiwage if i'm wrong - Nel knows, it will be in his closing argument, and the bit when OP contradicted himself, saying he found Reeva and she was not breathing and he broke down and Court had to adjourn......and then next day under continued cross exam with Nel, he said when he found Reeva she was breathing !
I like how he calls jeans "denims".......like they used to in the 60s.
I was thinking today, although my heart remains with Nel, I think. Prof Saayman is quite sexy in a lanky, academic kind of way.
:D:D:D I know what you mean, , in his younger days, at College, he was probably gorge , intelligent, played basketball, open doors for the girlies, read poetry, bit of carpentry,
The thing is would Oscar being as arrogant and narcissistic ever be willing to admit there is something wrong with mentally, he doesn't see himself as anything less than perfect.
:D:D:D I know what you mean, , in his younger days, at College, he was probably gorge , intelligent, played basketball, open doors for the girlies, read poetry, bit of carpentry,
He just put his leg on the chair and the girls swooned
The thing is would Oscar being as arrogant and narcissistic ever be willing to admit there is something wrong with mentally, he doesn't see himself as anything less than perfect.
Well, he's been at great pains to tell us about his trauma, having to take medication, hiding in cupboards and so on. I think he'd be delighted to hear someone rabbiting on about poor little Oscar.
I noticed that he quite often got tearful talking about how very terrible everything has been for him.....far more often than he cried about Reeva.
And Nel is right....not once in all of his five days of testimony did OP address how utterly terrified Reeva must have been in that toilet. OP contradicted Nel by saying he had talked about what Reeva must have been thinking......how she must have hidden from the intruder and so on.
.-you'll see the brother rub his finger across his lip in the gallery,(probably to say SHUT UP !!)
Nel : Why are you screaming out ? OP says : I was scared.... I wanted to ask Reeva why she's phoning the Police :o:o
Not important but later on you'll hear Nel pressing OP about the Duvet, he pressed and pressed OP on this point - ....I lurved the way Nel said 'Duvay' ..............
Blooming heck....missed that one!!.....and so did Nel.!!....surely someone in the prosecution team will have picked this up when reviewing the court record.....unless this was a genuine slip of the tongue he's just given the prosecution a motive for intent.....I wonder if this has been picked up in reviews or blogs of the trial
I'm glad you have found this. This is one of the times when I wondered whether everything that the witnesses were saying could actually be heard in court (and not just on the recording). I couldn't understand why it wasn't followed up.
wonder if it translates as something else ? or he's speaking quickly ..............and said
I wanted to ask Reeva why she wasn't phoning the police, ??
but it definitely sounded like ' I wanted to ask Reeva why she's phoning the police'
he was scared Reeva was going to phone the police .............ON HIM,,,,, which could be why he fired...to stop her phoning the police , or anyone for that matter !!
What does it sound like to anyone else ?
Nel has jumped at OP before when he's slipped up.....For example when OP said he 'checked the balcony' .by mistake and quickly changed what he'd said.
As soon as OP said it , Nel jumped in..........'What did you just say ? '
|Bit of a concern.
.-you'll see the brother rub his finger across his lip in the gallery,(probably to say SHUT UP !!)
Nel : Why are you screaming out ? OP says : I was scared.... I wanted to ask Reeva why she's phoning the Police :o:o
Not important but later on you'll hear Nel pressing OP about the Duvet, he pressed and pressed OP on this point - ....I lurved the way Nel said 'Duvay' ..............
Don't understand what the big fuss is about ?
It's a slip of the tongue… and those are more often than not totally innocent.
Nel did one as well in that same reference, he said : you kept your eyes on the toilet and on the ladder…. there is no ladder…he meant window… what should we infer from that ??
And the brother wiping or scratching his lips at no particular important moment… guess you can read anything into anything if you try hard enough.
wonder if it translates as something else ? or he's speaking quickly ..............and said
I was scared that Reeva wasn't phoning the police,
but it definitely sound like he was scared Reeva was going to phone the police .............ON HIM,,,,, which could be why he fired...to stop her phoning the police , or anyone for that matter !!
Was this comment discussed on the day.....or has someone just spotted it today when re-watching a vid.....If he really said what we think he said then he's just given the prosecution their much sought after motive......If this is what appears in the court record and the prosecution pick it up...which they will....surely OP has to be stuffed
It's a slip of the tongue… and those are more often than not totally innocent.
Nel did one as well in that same reference, he said : you kept your eyes on the toilet and on the ladder…. there is no ladder…he meant window… what should we infer from that ??
And the brother wiping or scratching his lips at no particular important moment… guess you can read anything into anything if you try hard enough.
It's a slip of the tongue… and those are more often than not totally innocent.
Nel did one as well in that same reference, he said : you kept your eyes on the toilet and on the ladder…. there is no ladder…he meant window… what should we infer from that ??
And the brother wiping or scratching his lips at no particular important moment… guess you can read anything into anything if you try hard enough.
AJ this is OP giving his testimony , he's being cross examined by Nel, pressured into getting the truth out of him, he was stressed, scared, worried about slipping up, and Nel put pressure on him, why can't OP have said that, it sounded like that's what he said, and Nel got what he wanted did n't he, so perhaps that IS why he moved on, it was golddust to Nel, that's what he wanted from OP and got it,
we don't know that, we can only go on what OP said ---
And Nel corrects himself all the time, a slip of the tongue by NEL isn't the same is it as a SLIP of the tongue from OP recalling what happened that night, a slip of the tongue is OP incriminating himself and being shown to be a liar !! really, can't believe you're so blase about that , it's on the VT, listen to it,
-- OP 's slipped up more than once, he checked the balcony he said, and he said he hadn't meant to say that, he said Reeva was breathing, then next day not breathing, - Nel didn't say anything about that slip up either did he - it was golddust again to Nel.............!!
Was this comment discussed on the day.....or has someone just spotted it today when re-watching a vid.....If he really said what we think he said then he's just given the prosecution their much sought after motive......If this is what appears in the court record and the prosecution pick it up...which they will....surely OP has to be stuffed
It has been discussed on here before, but the VT is online, - I want to know if that evening discussion Oscar Trial Panel discussed it, because they have discussed a few things that were 'missed' by those in Court before now, they don't seem to miss anything and they do a daily round up of the trial !
AJ this is OP giving his testimony , he's being cross examined by Nel, pressured into getting the truth out of him, he was stressed, scared, worried about slipping up, and Nel put pressure on him, why can't OP have said that, it sounded like that's what he said, and Nel got what he wanted did n't he, so perhaps that IS why he moved on, it was golddust to Nel, that's what he wanted from OP and got it,
we don't know that, we can only go on what OP said ---
And Nel corrects himself all the time, a slip of the tongue by NEL isn't the same is it as a SLIP of the tongue from OP recalling what happened that night, a slip of the tongue is OP incriminating himself and being shown to be a liar !! really, can't believe you're so blase about that , it's on the VT, listen to it,
-- OP 's slipped up more than once, he checked the balcony he said, and he said he hadn't meant to say that, he said Reeva was breathing, then next day not breathing, - Nel didn't say anything about that slip up either did he - it was golddust again to Nel.............!!
Never suggested that a slip-up from Nel was the same as a slip-up from the accused.
But slip-ups happen to everybody all the time… especially if under pressure and nervous… it's perfectly natural and expected… that's why Nel didn't jump on it... because it was an innocent slip-up (or not) but Nel couldn't use it anyway, so why bother…he didn't
If accused were convicted or witnesses deemed not credible on the basis of slip-ups… where would we be ??
There are far more significant, relevant and concrete ways of demonstrating to the Court an accused is lying… if slip-ups is all you have to go on…you haven't go much.
Never suggested that a slip-up from Nel was the same as a slip-up from the accused.
But slip-ups happen to everybody all the time… especially if under pressure and nervous… it's perfectly natural and expected… that's why Nel didn't jump on it... because it was an innocent slip-up (or not) but Nel couldn't use it anyway, so why bother…he didn't
If accused were convicted or witnesses deemed not credible on the basis of slip-ups… where would we be ??
There are far more significant, relevant and concrete ways of demonstrating to the Court an accused is lying… if slip-ups is all you have to go on…you haven't go much.
Yes you did, you insinuated that Nel makes slip ups all the time, so what ? that was your insinuation. Why can't Nel 'use' it ., it's OP, the accused on the Stand recounting his version to the Prosecution, course it can be USED, it's now on RECORD !! It's not called a SLIP UP , it was OP , so it was OP getting confused between his version, story he's memorised and telling the truth.
This was OP being taken BACK to that night and that's what Nel was pressing OP for, for him to SLIP UP and he did,,.....he then reverted back to his VERSION immediately after he said it......just listen to it,just because you didn't flag it up, doesn't mean it has to be dismissed, you move on, but others have discussed it and viewed it as slip up but in the sense of OP incriminating himself ....and OP saying what really happened, when under pressure. -- that' what cross-exam is FOR !!
OP slipping up about firing the gun, accident, didn't mean to shoot, didn't 'think' , all those slip ups to ignore too - that part of his cross exam he contradicted himself, he changed his version a few times, and didn't know what his Defence was ! OP's cross exam is THE most important part of this trial, - ANYTHING that OP said that was inconsistent can't be dismissed, because the Judge won't dismiss it ! If OP was telling the truth, why the SLIP UPS and 'mistakes' , it's obviously incriminating himself.
This is OP being taken BACK to that night and that's what Nel was pressing OP for, for him to SLIP UP and he did,,.....he then reverted back to his VERSION immediately after he said it......just listen to it,just because you didn't flag it up, doesn't mean it has to be dismissed, you move on, but others have discussed it and viewed it as slip up and OP saying what really happened, under cross exam , under pressure.
OP slipping up about firing the gun, accident, didn't mean to shoot, didn't 'think' , all those slip ups to ignore too - that part of his cross exam he contradicted himself, he changed his version a few times, and didn't know what his Defence was ! OP's cross exam is THE most important part of this trial, - ANYTHING that OP said that was inconsistent can't be dismissed, because the Judge won't dismiss it ! If OP was telling the truth, why the SLIP UPS and 'mistakes' , it's obviously incriminating himself.
You are putting anything and everything into the same sack…relevant and irrelevant things to prove the accused is lying… you don't need to do that… and Nel didn't do that.
Whether it was a honest slip-up or a tell-tale slip-up, it remains an unusable slip-up.
What do you suppose OP would have said if Nel had 'jumped' on this slip-up ?
OP would have said : I meant to say why is Reeva not calling the police
And where would have Nel gone with that… no where… because there is NO evidence that RS called or tried to call the police.
Jeez… we don't even know if RS truly had her phone with her, if the toilet door was truly locked, etc…
Anyone with advanced knowledge of sound effects can manipulate a recording of a cricket bat to sound like a gunshot; a 3 minute job. I could make the sound of tapping a window with my fingernails sound like a gunshot for god's sake! Two recordings made in a studio with no independent observers and presented to the court as irrefutable evidence that the sounds are indistinguishable lol. You couldn't make it up!
I get the feeling roux knows there's not a lot he can do now. this week has been very half-arsed. mind you, nel Isn't doing an awful lot either. maybe he's satisfied with the work done?
He doesn't need to. Nel has Pistorius by the short and curlies. The defence witnesses are laughable.
Comments
Brilliant!! 17.00. And just before Aimee and Carl really on the edge of their seats with Carl doing the lip rubby thing.
I would love to know what the official court transcript says as it is as clear as a very very clear thing.
I like how he calls jeans "denims".......like they used to in the 60s.
I was thinking today, although my heart remains with Nel, I think. Prof Saayman is quite sexy in a lanky, academic kind of way.
I'm glad you have found this. This is one of the times when I wondered whether everything that the witnesses were saying could actually be heard in court (and not just on the recording). I couldn't understand why it wasn't followed up.
I know it's later than 16.08, but you need the build up to that comment, as Nel puts the pressure on ! so clever.
The thing is would Oscar being as arrogant and narcissistic ever be willing to admit there is something wrong with mentally, he doesn't see himself as anything less than perfect.
Hopefully, and i'll eat Oldiwage if i'm wrong - Nel knows, it will be in his closing argument, and the bit when OP contradicted himself, saying he found Reeva and she was not breathing and he broke down and Court had to adjourn......and then next day under continued cross exam with Nel, he said when he found Reeva she was breathing !
:D:D:D I know what you mean, , in his younger days, at College, he was probably gorge , intelligent, played basketball, open doors for the girlies, read poetry, bit of carpentry,
You forget that he'll do anything to save his ass
whole meaning of a sentence can be lost !!
rather annoying and a worry !
He just put his leg on the chair and the girls swooned
Well, he's been at great pains to tell us about his trauma, having to take medication, hiding in cupboards and so on. I think he'd be delighted to hear someone rabbiting on about poor little Oscar.
I noticed that he quite often got tearful talking about how very terrible everything has been for him.....far more often than he cried about Reeva.
And Nel is right....not once in all of his five days of testimony did OP address how utterly terrified Reeva must have been in that toilet. OP contradicted Nel by saying he had talked about what Reeva must have been thinking......how she must have hidden from the intruder and so on.
Duh. Not quite what Nel meant.
Blooming heck....missed that one!!.....and so did Nel.!!....surely someone in the prosecution team will have picked this up when reviewing the court record.....unless this was a genuine slip of the tongue he's just given the prosecution a motive for intent.....I wonder if this has been picked up in reviews or blogs of the trial
I wanted to ask Reeva why she wasn't phoning the police, ??
but it definitely sounded like ' I wanted to ask Reeva why she's phoning the police'
he was scared Reeva was going to phone the police .............ON HIM,,,,, which could be why he fired...to stop her phoning the police , or anyone for that matter !!
What does it sound like to anyone else ?
Nel has jumped at OP before when he's slipped up.....For example when OP said he 'checked the balcony' .by mistake and quickly changed what he'd said.
As soon as OP said it , Nel jumped in..........'What did you just say ? '
|Bit of a concern.
Don't understand what the big fuss is about ?
It's a slip of the tongue… and those are more often than not totally innocent.
Nel did one as well in that same reference, he said : you kept your eyes on the toilet and on the ladder…. there is no ladder…he meant window… what should we infer from that ??
And the brother wiping or scratching his lips at no particular important moment… guess you can read anything into anything if you try hard enough.
Was this comment discussed on the day.....or has someone just spotted it today when re-watching a vid.....If he really said what we think he said then he's just given the prosecution their much sought after motive......If this is what appears in the court record and the prosecution pick it up...which they will....surely OP has to be stuffed
Agreed. Nothing to see here.
AJ this is OP giving his testimony , he's being cross examined by Nel, pressured into getting the truth out of him, he was stressed, scared, worried about slipping up, and Nel put pressure on him, why can't OP have said that, it sounded like that's what he said, and Nel got what he wanted did n't he, so perhaps that IS why he moved on, it was golddust to Nel, that's what he wanted from OP and got it,
we don't know that, we can only go on what OP said ---
And Nel corrects himself all the time, a slip of the tongue by NEL isn't the same is it as a SLIP of the tongue from OP recalling what happened that night, a slip of the tongue is OP incriminating himself and being shown to be a liar !! really, can't believe you're so blase about that , it's on the VT, listen to it,
-- OP 's slipped up more than once, he checked the balcony he said, and he said he hadn't meant to say that, he said Reeva was breathing, then next day not breathing, - Nel didn't say anything about that slip up either did he - it was golddust again to Nel.............!!
Never suggested that a slip-up from Nel was the same as a slip-up from the accused.
But slip-ups happen to everybody all the time… especially if under pressure and nervous… it's perfectly natural and expected… that's why Nel didn't jump on it... because it was an innocent slip-up (or not) but Nel couldn't use it anyway, so why bother…he didn't
If accused were convicted or witnesses deemed not credible on the basis of slip-ups… where would we be ??
There are far more significant, relevant and concrete ways of demonstrating to the Court an accused is lying… if slip-ups is all you have to go on…you haven't go much.
… move along everybody… nothing to see here
This was OP being taken BACK to that night and that's what Nel was pressing OP for, for him to SLIP UP and he did,,.....he then reverted back to his VERSION immediately after he said it......just listen to it,just because you didn't flag it up, doesn't mean it has to be dismissed, you move on, but others have discussed it and viewed it as slip up but in the sense of OP incriminating himself ....and OP saying what really happened, when under pressure. -- that' what cross-exam is FOR !!
OP slipping up about firing the gun, accident, didn't mean to shoot, didn't 'think' , all those slip ups to ignore too - that part of his cross exam he contradicted himself, he changed his version a few times, and didn't know what his Defence was ! OP's cross exam is THE most important part of this trial, - ANYTHING that OP said that was inconsistent can't be dismissed, because the Judge won't dismiss it ! If OP was telling the truth, why the SLIP UPS and 'mistakes' , it's obviously incriminating himself.
You are putting anything and everything into the same sack…relevant and irrelevant things to prove the accused is lying… you don't need to do that… and Nel didn't do that.
Whether it was a honest slip-up or a tell-tale slip-up, it remains an unusable slip-up.
What do you suppose OP would have said if Nel had 'jumped' on this slip-up ?
OP would have said : I meant to say why is Reeva not calling the police
And where would have Nel gone with that… no where… because there is NO evidence that RS called or tried to call the police.
Jeez… we don't even know if RS truly had her phone with her, if the toilet door was truly locked, etc…
He doesn't need to. Nel has Pistorius by the short and curlies. The defence witnesses are laughable.