Excellent, we should see more of this interviewer! Are the BBC still looking for a replacement for Paxman? If so, look no further!
To be fair to Farage he handled the difficult questions quite well. To use a footballing metaphor, I thought it was going to be a 4-0 hammering, but he brought it back to 4-3. It was not an interview his spin doctors will be reminding us of, but it was manageable in the context of the longer term campaign.
As you used the words 'your' friends on the far right (instead of our friends) it suggested that your allegiances are left of centre. As UKIP are often associated with ex centre-right voters I merely added a link to suggest that is not always the case...
If we go back to the start, the question was "why does Farage continually get called a racist?"
Lets break down what he said,
He wouldn't want to live next door to 10 Romanian men.
He doesn't like hearing non-English languages on trains.
He's worried that some schools the pupils don't speak English as a first language.
These aren't extreme views, in fact these are the views (and others) that have been mumbled in pubs, workplaces and lets face it LBC phone ins for years. These are the questions that that the mainstream political parties have ignored for years.
If a potential UKIP voter tuned in on Friday to hear Farage being exposed as a racist, they wouldn't have heard probably anything that they didn't agree with. That's why in my opinion JOB failed.
Farage has filled a vacuum, that can't be denied, like I said it's worrying, a "feel good factor" a "national pride" in voting for a political party that has these views as the mainstay of its agenda.
In simple terms he has disambiguated politics, there is no doubt in anyones mind what he stands for, so any critique would only serve to make up the mind of his opponents that they like him less.
If we go back to the start, the question was "why does Farage continually get called a racist?"
Lets break down what he said,
He wouldn't want to live next door to 10 Romanian men.
He doesn't like hearing non-English languages on trains.
He's worried that some schools the pupils don't speak English as a first language.
These aren't extreme views, in fact these are the views (and others) that have been mumbled in pubs, workplaces and lets face it LBC phone ins for years. These are the questions that that the mainstream political parties have ignored for years.
If a potential UKIP voter tuned in on Friday to hear Farage being exposed as a racist, they wouldn't have heard probably anything that they didn't agree with. That's why in my opinion JOB failed.
Farage has filled a vacuum, that can't be denied, like I said it's worrying, a "feel good factor" a "national pride" in voting for a political party that has these views as the mainstay of its agenda.
In simple terms he has disambiguated politics, there is no doubt in anyones mind what he stands for, so any critique would only serve to make up the mind of his opponents that they like him less.
And this is why the major parties are terrified as the lid is now off and they don't know how to deal with it. The more they should "racist" at Farage and UKIP, the more they are accusing a significant portion of the electorate of being exactly the same and alienating them even further.
Where a lot of UKIP's support is coming from is not from Labour and Tory allegiances being switched, but the dormant apathetic voter who suddenly sees a bit of a everyday person side to politics which has been missing for many years. The current parties love this voter apathy as lower turnouts is not a problem with the first past the post system in place, but the people who previously couldn't be arsed are now wondering what all the fuss is about and seeing straight through what the main parties are trying to achieve with smear tactics and dredging up of all sorts of stuff.
He wouldn't want to live next door to 10 Romanian men..
I don't think anyone would want to live next to 10 men, full stop. Why does he raise the sceptre of them being Romanian. It appears he would be happy to live next to Germans, though.
He doesn't like hearing non-English languages on trains.
I'm sure the Spanish aren't thrilled to hear English all the time either, but there you go. We're in a different place than 10-15 years ago. People speak other languages - get used to it. I speak 3 languages - should I desist from speaking French and German because some knuckledragger 'doesn't like it'?
in fact these are the views (and others) that have been mumbled in pubs, workplaces and lets face it LBC phone ins for years
So has "Bring back hanging/kill paedophiles without trial/send them all back". Just because a view is popular doesn't make it right. I often hear people saying we pay too much tax. A populist would increase spending and reduce taxation - how would that work. Just because something is popular, that doesn't make it workable.
iThese are the questions that that the mainstream political parties have ignored for years.
And rightly so - they reek of bigotry. I actually heard a UKIP candidate say he thought that the speaking of a foreign language on the streets "should be banned".
If a potential UKIP voter tuned in on Friday to hear Farage being exposed as a racist, they wouldn't have heard probably anything that they didn't agree with. That's why in my opinion JOB failed.
I do agree with you that the mainstream political parties have failed to bring the fight to Farage - the flimsiest push, and his whole pathetic golfclub drivel comes crashing down. He has to be rescued by his publicity director. I think they regard engaging with UKIP as being below them, or that if they ignore him, he'll go away. Meanwhile, the press love a good story and Garage is enough of a rentaquote gobshite to keep them in copy for weeks.
Farage has filled a vacuum, that can't be denied, like I said it's worrying, a "feel good factor" a "national pride" in voting for a political party that has these views as the mainstay of its agenda.
National pride is not wrong, but when it excludes other groups - as UKIP's 'pride' obviously does - then it is just plain prejudice
In simple terms he has disambiguated politics, there is no doubt in anyones mind what he stands for, so any critique would only serve to make up the mind of his opponents that they like him less.
He stands for the kind of inarticulate bigotry that a certain generation of Britons who've grown up with a sense of entitlement want. Throw into that some far right dogma - getting rid of most, if not all workers' rights, destroying the public sector, privatising the NHS, bringing back selection and privilege in education - and you have a heady, and toxic brew.
Where a lot of UKIP's support is coming from is not from Labour and Tory allegiances being switched, but the dormant apathetic voter who suddenly sees a bit of a everyday person side to politics which has been missing for many years. The current parties love this voter apathy as lower turnouts is not a problem with the first past the post system in place, but the people who previously couldn't be arsed are now wondering what all the fuss is about and seeing straight through what the main parties are trying to achieve with smear tactics and dredging up of all sorts of stuff.
In what sense is Nigel Farage an "everyday person"? I know no former London-bred millionaires who earn millions more in EU expenses.
In what sense is Nigel Farage an "everyday person"? I know no former London-bred millionaires who earn millions more in EU expenses.
I said a bit of everyday person side to politics. Which is clearly resonating with the electorate and panicking those who see the lurch from red to blue and then back again as the way things should be.
Most politicians are identikit drones who just wheel out the same old crap like "lessons will be learned" when they rarely are. Granted, UKIP may well not be any different, but clearly a large amount of the electorate have taken all they are willing to stomach from the current bunch.
In what sense is Nigel Farage an "everyday person"? I know no former London-bred millionaires who earn millions more in EU expenses.
I think the phrase was meant in terms of perception though. A perception can often be different from the brutal reality, but the point is that Farage is saying things, in terms of EU membership and immigration, which other party leaders will not say and this is clearly striking a chord with previously disconnected voters.
He stands for the kind of inarticulate bigotry that a certain generation of Britons who've grown up with a sense of entitlement want. Throw into that some far right dogma - getting rid of most, if not all workers' rights, destroying the public sector, privatising the NHS, bringing back selection and privilege in education - and you have a heady, and toxic brew.[/QUOTE]
But what is your answer ?
The same as we've had from the all prevailing orthodoxy ? Ignore the immigration question? Set an agenda for debate that doesn't include It ?
You are aware of what happens if you continually do that ?
In the 60s Unions marched against "Black" labour, in 1955 Churchill wanted to use the slogan "keep Britain white " for the Tory election campaign. Tony Benn hated Europe, it's a complex issue.
I totally believe that if Farage had said "most people wouldn't want to live next door to a family of Muslims" although there would have been a much bigger outcry from the media, it wouldn't have made the slightest difference to the majority of UKIP voters.
That's where we are, Farage is a moderate in relation to the views of those who will support him.
If we go back to the start, the question was "why does Farage continually get called a racist?"
Lets break down what he said,
He wouldn't want to live next door to 10 Romanian men.
He doesn't like hearing non-English languages on trains.
He's worried that some schools the pupils don't speak English as a first language.
These aren't extreme views, in fact these are the views (and others) that have been mumbled in pubs, workplaces and lets face it LBC phone ins for years. These are the questions that that the mainstream political parties have ignored for years.
If a potential UKIP voter tuned in on Friday to hear Farage being exposed as a racist, they wouldn't have heard probably anything that they didn't agree with. That's why in my opinion JOB failed.
Farage has filled a vacuum, that can't be denied, like I said it's worrying, a "feel good factor" a "national pride" in voting for a political party that has these views as the mainstay of its agenda.
In simple terms he has disambiguated politics, there is no doubt in anyones mind what he stands for, so any critique would only serve to make up the mind of his opponents that they like him less.
I think that's very perceptive and therein lies the crux of that issue. Are voters in favour of further integration or are they are against it? Is there any room for a compromised position on that topic and if so, where on that spectrum is reasonable?
...Where a lot of UKIP's support is coming from is not from Labour and Tory allegiances being switched, but the dormant apathetic voter who suddenly sees a bit of a everyday person side to politics which has been missing for many years. The current parties love this voter apathy as lower turnouts is not a problem with the first past the post system in place....
Got to agree there. It will be exactly what happens with many a revolution.
But as we know, political revolutions usually end up one big disaster.
India has just had a small revolution, so some hope there for them.
He earns MILLIONS in EU expenses ........... You need help .
This is what demonstrates the blind adulation that the UKIPers show in their desire to have their racism and bigotry legitimised. They will follow farage to the bitter end.
Howard, five years ago Farage boasted that he had earned two million pounds in expenses and gloated that he had done nothing for it. I would imnagine that in the following five years, he has added to that quite considerably.
O'Brien's performance was barrel-scraping almost from start to finish. It was a pathetic, almost schoolboyish attempt at character assassination that failed dismally.
O'Brien's performance was everything you say it was but I'm not sure I'd agree that it failed in its objective by virtue of the number of people in this thread that seem to be revelling in it.
O'Brien's performance was everything you say it was but I'm not sure I'd agree that it failed in its objective by virtue of the number of people in this thread that seem to be revelling in it.
Because he plays a very canny game of not actually saying (but implying) lots of fairly dodgy things
I don't think anyone would want to live next to 10 men, full stop. Why does he raise the sceptre of them being Romanian. It appears he would be happy to live next to Germans, though.
I'm sure the Spanish aren't thrilled to hear English all the time either, but there you go. We're in a different place than 10-15 years ago. People speak other languages - get used to it. I speak 3 languages - should I desist from speaking French and German because some knuckledragger 'doesn't like it'?
Weird isn't it that these kids often scire the highest GCSE and KS2 results. Perhaps it has something to do with motivation ?
They are certainly not mainstream political views
So has "Bring back hanging/kill paedophiles without trial/send them all back". Just because a view is popular doesn't make it right. I often hear people saying we pay too much tax. A populist would increase spending and reduce taxation - how would that work. Just because something is popular, that doesn't make it workable.
And rightly so - they reek of bigotry. I actually heard a UKIP candidate say he thought that the speaking of a foreign language on the streets "should be banned".
I do agree with you that the mainstream political parties have failed to bring the fight to Farage - the flimsiest push, and his whole pathetic golfclub drivel comes crashing down. He has to be rescued by his publicity director. I think they regard engaging with UKIP as being below them, or that if they ignore him, he'll go away. Meanwhile, the press love a good story and Garage is enough of a rentaquote gobshite to keep them in copy for weeks.
National pride is not wrong, but when it excludes other groups - as UKIP's 'pride' obviously does - then it is just plain prejudice
He stands for the kind of inarticulate bigotry that a certain generation of Britons who've grown up with a sense of entitlement want. Throw into that some far right dogma - getting rid of most, if not all workers' rights, destroying the public sector, privatising the NHS, bringing back selection and privilege in education - and you have a heady, and toxic brew.
But we still want control of our borders. And that is what it all boils down too!
Years gone by a typical UKIP supporter has been suppressed yet respectful about immigration. As immigration has got out of control proved by labours apologies UKIP supporters have voiced their concerns.
What gives the voters of other parties the right to criticise UKIP for having a different view to them.
the poll on the other thread shows more people would rather NOT live next to 10 romanians.
We as a country have been so liberal and politically correct we even let abu hanza preach in a London street! We have been to liberal for to long and its lurching the other way!!
My point is UKIP do have diffrent views but thats democracy.
Years gone by a typical UKIP supporter has been suppressed yet respectful about immigration. As immigration has got out of control proved by labours apologies UKIP supporters have voiced their concerns.
What gives the voters of other parties the right to criticise UKIP for having a different view to them.
What is a "typical UKIP supporter"? As far as I can tell they are a broad church including disillusioned Tories, disillusioned Labour, ex-BNP and people that weren't that interested in politics at all until recently.
the poll on the other thread shows more people would rather NOT live next to 10 romanians.
The polls shows that people that responded to the poll would rather not live next door to 10 Romanians, which is very different. Polls on DS are totally unscientific.
We as a country have been so liberal and politically correct we even let abu hanza preach in a London street! We have been to liberal for to long and its lurching the other way!!
I don't see a connection between our complex legal system taking far too long extradite Abu Hanza and Liberal/Politically Correct politics. Both Labour and LibCon governments tried to get him convicted.
My point is UKIP do have diffrent views but thats democracy.
I think you've got a little over heated. What's the connection between having different views, and democracy?
Years gone by a typical UKIP supporter has been suppressed yet respectful about immigration. As immigration has got out of control proved by labours apologies UKIP supporters have voiced their concerns.
What gives the voters of other parties the right to criticise UKIP for having a different view to them.
The same right as you and your fellow UKIP supporters have - and use - to criticise the views of others, obviously.
Why is it that you think UKIP should be allowed to say whatever they want without anyone picking them up on it?
O'Brien's performance was everything you say it was but I'm not sure I'd agree that it failed in its objective by virtue of the number of people in this thread that seem to be revelling in it.
They are revelling in it and trying to make out it was something that it wasn't because O'Brien was essentially preaching to the converted.
Comments
To be fair to Farage he handled the difficult questions quite well. To use a footballing metaphor, I thought it was going to be a 4-0 hammering, but he brought it back to 4-3. It was not an interview his spin doctors will be reminding us of, but it was manageable in the context of the longer term campaign.
As you used the words 'your' friends on the far right (instead of our friends) it suggested that your allegiances are left of centre. As UKIP are often associated with ex centre-right voters I merely added a link to suggest that is not always the case...
Lets break down what he said,
He wouldn't want to live next door to 10 Romanian men.
He doesn't like hearing non-English languages on trains.
He's worried that some schools the pupils don't speak English as a first language.
These aren't extreme views, in fact these are the views (and others) that have been mumbled in pubs, workplaces and lets face it LBC phone ins for years. These are the questions that that the mainstream political parties have ignored for years.
If a potential UKIP voter tuned in on Friday to hear Farage being exposed as a racist, they wouldn't have heard probably anything that they didn't agree with. That's why in my opinion JOB failed.
Farage has filled a vacuum, that can't be denied, like I said it's worrying, a "feel good factor" a "national pride" in voting for a political party that has these views as the mainstay of its agenda.
In simple terms he has disambiguated politics, there is no doubt in anyones mind what he stands for, so any critique would only serve to make up the mind of his opponents that they like him less.
And this is why the major parties are terrified as the lid is now off and they don't know how to deal with it. The more they should "racist" at Farage and UKIP, the more they are accusing a significant portion of the electorate of being exactly the same and alienating them even further.
Where a lot of UKIP's support is coming from is not from Labour and Tory allegiances being switched, but the dormant apathetic voter who suddenly sees a bit of a everyday person side to politics which has been missing for many years. The current parties love this voter apathy as lower turnouts is not a problem with the first past the post system in place, but the people who previously couldn't be arsed are now wondering what all the fuss is about and seeing straight through what the main parties are trying to achieve with smear tactics and dredging up of all sorts of stuff.
Because he plays a very canny game of not actually saying (but implying) lots of fairly dodgy things
I don't think anyone would want to live next to 10 men, full stop. Why does he raise the sceptre of them being Romanian. It appears he would be happy to live next to Germans, though.
I'm sure the Spanish aren't thrilled to hear English all the time either, but there you go. We're in a different place than 10-15 years ago. People speak other languages - get used to it. I speak 3 languages - should I desist from speaking French and German because some knuckledragger 'doesn't like it'?
Weird isn't it that these kids often scire the highest GCSE and KS2 results. Perhaps it has something to do with motivation ?
They are certainly not mainstream political views
So has "Bring back hanging/kill paedophiles without trial/send them all back". Just because a view is popular doesn't make it right. I often hear people saying we pay too much tax. A populist would increase spending and reduce taxation - how would that work. Just because something is popular, that doesn't make it workable.
And rightly so - they reek of bigotry. I actually heard a UKIP candidate say he thought that the speaking of a foreign language on the streets "should be banned".
I do agree with you that the mainstream political parties have failed to bring the fight to Farage - the flimsiest push, and his whole pathetic golfclub drivel comes crashing down. He has to be rescued by his publicity director. I think they regard engaging with UKIP as being below them, or that if they ignore him, he'll go away. Meanwhile, the press love a good story and Garage is enough of a rentaquote gobshite to keep them in copy for weeks.
National pride is not wrong, but when it excludes other groups - as UKIP's 'pride' obviously does - then it is just plain prejudice
He stands for the kind of inarticulate bigotry that a certain generation of Britons who've grown up with a sense of entitlement want. Throw into that some far right dogma - getting rid of most, if not all workers' rights, destroying the public sector, privatising the NHS, bringing back selection and privilege in education - and you have a heady, and toxic brew.
In what sense is Nigel Farage an "everyday person"? I know no former London-bred millionaires who earn millions more in EU expenses.
I said a bit of everyday person side to politics. Which is clearly resonating with the electorate and panicking those who see the lurch from red to blue and then back again as the way things should be.
Most politicians are identikit drones who just wheel out the same old crap like "lessons will be learned" when they rarely are. Granted, UKIP may well not be any different, but clearly a large amount of the electorate have taken all they are willing to stomach from the current bunch.
Would you like to say what those questions were?
I think the phrase was meant in terms of perception though. A perception can often be different from the brutal reality, but the point is that Farage is saying things, in terms of EU membership and immigration, which other party leaders will not say and this is clearly striking a chord with previously disconnected voters.
Really and was it the same with the BBC debate?
The questions come from the public and not LBC or the BBC.
But what is your answer ?
The same as we've had from the all prevailing orthodoxy ? Ignore the immigration question? Set an agenda for debate that doesn't include It ?
You are aware of what happens if you continually do that ?
In the 60s Unions marched against "Black" labour, in 1955 Churchill wanted to use the slogan "keep Britain white " for the Tory election campaign. Tony Benn hated Europe, it's a complex issue.
I totally believe that if Farage had said "most people wouldn't want to live next door to a family of Muslims" although there would have been a much bigger outcry from the media, it wouldn't have made the slightest difference to the majority of UKIP voters.
That's where we are, Farage is a moderate in relation to the views of those who will support him.
I think that's very perceptive and therein lies the crux of that issue. Are voters in favour of further integration or are they are against it? Is there any room for a compromised position on that topic and if so, where on that spectrum is reasonable?
Got to agree there. It will be exactly what happens with many a revolution.
But as we know, political revolutions usually end up one big disaster.
India has just had a small revolution, so some hope there for them.
He earns MILLIONS in EU expenses ........... You need help .
How about you refer me to the help I apparently need and I refer you to a guide on punctuation?
This is what demonstrates the blind adulation that the UKIPers show in their desire to have their racism and bigotry legitimised. They will follow farage to the bitter end.
Howard, five years ago Farage boasted that he had earned two million pounds in expenses and gloated that he had done nothing for it. I would imnagine that in the following five years, he has added to that quite considerably.
O'Brien's performance was everything you say it was but I'm not sure I'd agree that it failed in its objective by virtue of the number of people in this thread that seem to be revelling in it.
I have them in my recycling bin.
But we still want control of our borders. And that is what it all boils down too!
What gives the voters of other parties the right to criticise UKIP for having a different view to them.
the poll on the other thread shows more people would rather NOT live next to 10 romanians.
We as a country have been so liberal and politically correct we even let abu hanza preach in a London street! We have been to liberal for to long and its lurching the other way!!
My point is UKIP do have diffrent views but thats democracy.
What is a "typical UKIP supporter"? As far as I can tell they are a broad church including disillusioned Tories, disillusioned Labour, ex-BNP and people that weren't that interested in politics at all until recently.
The polls shows that people that responded to the poll would rather not live next door to 10 Romanians, which is very different. Polls on DS are totally unscientific.
I don't see a connection between our complex legal system taking far too long extradite Abu Hanza and Liberal/Politically Correct politics. Both Labour and LibCon governments tried to get him convicted.
I think you've got a little over heated. What's the connection between having different views, and democracy?
The same right as you and your fellow UKIP supporters have - and use - to criticise the views of others, obviously.
Why is it that you think UKIP should be allowed to say whatever they want without anyone picking them up on it?
They are revelling in it and trying to make out it was something that it wasn't because O'Brien was essentially preaching to the converted.