I don't think anyone would want to live next to 10 men, full stop. Why does he raise the sceptre of them being Romanian. It appears he would be happy to live next to Germans, though.
That sounds sexist. Are you "cannily" implying that people would be happy to live next door to 10 women? That sounds "dodgy" to me.
You know why he raises "the sceptre (sic) of them being Romanian"; because the official Metropolitan Police crime statistics show that 92% of all ATM crime in London is committed by Romanians and that 28,000 Romanians were arrested in the last five years in the Metropolitan Police area alone. Within the EU , Europol statistics show that 7% of all crime across the 28 EU member states was caused by Romanian gangs.
The argument that "everyone is the same" is the damaging politically correct mantra we've had for decades and it's time we faced up to reality with the facts that dare not speak their name.
UKIP is daring to speak up and that's why so many people are feeling relieved that there's a political movement on their side.
That sounds sexist. Are you "cannily" implying that people would be happy to live next door to 10 women? That sounds "dodgy" to me.
You know why he raises "the sceptre (sic) of them being Romanian"; because the official Metropolitan Police crime statistics show that 92% of all ATM crime in London is committed by Romanians and that 28,000 Romanians were arrested in the last five years in the Metropolitan Police area alone. Within the EU , Europol statistics show that 7% of all crime across the 28 EU member states was caused by Romanian gangs.
The argument that "everyone is the same" is the damaging politically correct mantra we've had for decades and it's time we faced up to reality with the facts that dare not speak their name.
UKIP is daring to speak up and that's why so many people are feeling relieved that there's a political movement on their side.
The point isn't that "everyone is the same" but that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Grouping whole communities together and deciding they are all guilty is racism / xenophobia. Substitute "black" for "Romanian" and tell me that wasn't a racist statement.
The point isn't that "everyone is the same" but that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Grouping whole communities together and deciding they are all guilty is racism / xenophobia. Substitute "black" for "Romanian" and tell me that wasn't a racist statement.
That's exactly the point , the ethnicity of those targeted might have changed in the last few decades but it's not less unacceptable .
I find it incredible that it's just glossed over it's frankly a pretty horrible and divisive statement but it's no longer Jews, Irish or blacks that are being targeted. If we have concerns over issues then the key is to have a debate not to vilify a section of our community .
The point isn't that "everyone is the same" but that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Grouping whole communities together and deciding they are all guilty is racism / xenophobia. Substitute "black" for "Romanian" and tell me that wasn't a racist statement.
No, the point is that there are official statistics that indicate that a disproportionate number of Romanians are committing crime. That's not racist.
28,000 Romanians were arrested in the last five years in the Metropolitan Police area alone.
No true the tabloids and channel 4s factcheck have erronously reported figures for the whole UK as for the Met only, because the Met provided the figures in response to a freedom of information request.
How many foreign nationals have been arrested in the UK in the past five years
They are revelling in it and trying to make out it was something that it wasn't because O'Brien was essentially preaching to the converted.
Definately an element of that but I'm mindful that he would have been targetting the fence sitters who might have been toying with the idea of voting UKIP.
You've only got to look at the hysteria of opportunist people (probably with agendas) who jump all over the backs of someone in the public eye who might send a politically incorrect tweet, e-mail or even wear the wrong fancy dress costume to assume it must work because it's everywhere.
You know why he raises "the sceptre (sic) of them being Romanian"; because the official Metropolitan Police crime statistics show that 92% of all ATM crime in London is committed by Romanians and that 28,000 Romanians were arrested in the last five years in the Metropolitan Police area alone. Within the EU , Europol statistics show that 7% of all crime across the 28 EU member states was caused by Romanian gangs.
That UKIP 'statistic' was exposed on Newsnight as a lie.
That UKIP 'statistic' was exposed on Newsnight as a lie.
Is the actual figure the point?
I'd have thought the whole point is the fact that it's an open door policy open to all aspects of european society, the good, the bad and the indifferent.
I don't think people are as bothered about the "actual" number as they are that principle hence why UKIP appear to be immune according to the poll ratings.
I'm too pushed for time at the moment to go digging around for the link to rewatch it, but I think he said something like "there's a lot of criminality". Which isn't the same as saying - or even implying - that all of them are criminals.
I'd have thought the whole point is the fact that it's an open door policy open to all aspects of european society, the good, the bad and the indifferent.
I don't think people are as bothered about the "actual" number as they are that principle hence why UKIP appear to be immune according to the poll ratings.
If your a political party aspiring to be influential surely if your going to quote figures or statistics they should be correct surely ? Otherwise what's the point of a debate .
As regards the 'ATM crime ' it seems , from media reports I've seen , that no such statistics are available . If you want a grown up debate then as I've said surely you have to present accurate facts ?
The point isn't that "everyone is the same" but that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Grouping whole communities together and deciding they are all guilty is racism / xenophobia. Substitute "black" for "Romanian" and tell me that wasn't a racist statement.
What is institutional racism but a grouping of a community together and saying it cannot but help itself to be racist. If we do not like collectivisation of guilt then perhaps we should not do it at all.
If your a political party aspiring to be influential surely if your going to quote figures or statistics they should be correct surely ? Otherwise what's the point of a debate .
As regards the 'ATM crime ' it seems , from media reports I've seen , that no such statistics are available . If you want a grown up debate then as I've said surely you have to present accurate facts ?
Saying "some criminals are Romanian" as a fact is one thing. Implying "All Romanians are criminals" is another.
Can you really not see the difference?
Of course I can see the difference.
Did Nigel Farage actually imply, "All Romanians are criminals"? I missed that bit.
His point is that the UK ought to be able to control who enters and filter out potential criminals. With the "freedom of movement" policy we can't do that, however, we can and apply it to people from outside the EU.
Are we to be absorbed into an EU-wide borderless "nation" akin to a region of a larger country? Or, as an island with a rich history of freedom, democracy, tolerance and world trade, are we going to be allowed once again to protect our citizens from undesirables ?
Or, as an island with a rich history of freedom, democracy, tolerance and world trade, are we going to be allowed once again to protect our citizens from undesirables ?
Perhaps UKIP should talk a bit more about what they're going to do to protect us from British undesirables then, rather than just Romanian ones, as that's what any rational person should be more concerned about.
What is institutional racism but a grouping of a community together and saying it cannot but help itself to be racist. If we do not like collectivisation of guilt then perhaps we should not do it at all.
Who said bodies that were institutionally racist couldn't help themselves? The police have made many reforms to address this problem once they accepted it was correct.
Something DCI Paul Barnard, then head of the Dedicated Cheque and Plastic Crime Unit (DCPCU) once said to ITV1’s ‘Fraud Squad’ programme “The fact is 92 per cent of all ATM fraud we see in this country is committed by Romanian nationals.”
MET response when the stat was used by Farage and media and people started querying it was. DCI Barnard is no longer head of the unit. There are no statistics available on this issue.
Perhaps UKIP should talk a bit more about what they're going to do to protect us from British undesirables then, rather than just Romanian ones, as that's what any rational person should be more concerned about.
Who said bodies that were institutionally racist couldn't help themselves? The police have made many reforms to address this problem once they accepted it was correct.
Maybe UKIP should follow their example?
The point is about grouping communities. IF institutional racism is 'correct' then that places every white person within that group as either actively racist or inadvertently racist or tacitly racist in supporting a culture of racism. It is the collectivisation of a community and placing all in guilt mode, the very thing I thought you were objecting to?
It makes as much sense as talking about an in/out referendum, which also can't be implemented from the EU parliament.
Quite.
I'd have thought the wave of publicity they're currently experiencing would be the ideal time for them to put some policies which demonstrate they have credible ideas into the spotlight.
Comments
That sounds sexist. Are you "cannily" implying that people would be happy to live next door to 10 women? That sounds "dodgy" to me.
You know why he raises "the sceptre (sic) of them being Romanian"; because the official Metropolitan Police crime statistics show that 92% of all ATM crime in London is committed by Romanians and that 28,000 Romanians were arrested in the last five years in the Metropolitan Police area alone. Within the EU , Europol statistics show that 7% of all crime across the 28 EU member states was caused by Romanian gangs.
The argument that "everyone is the same" is the damaging politically correct mantra we've had for decades and it's time we faced up to reality with the facts that dare not speak their name.
UKIP is daring to speak up and that's why so many people are feeling relieved that there's a political movement on their side.
The point isn't that "everyone is the same" but that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Grouping whole communities together and deciding they are all guilty is racism / xenophobia. Substitute "black" for "Romanian" and tell me that wasn't a racist statement.
That's exactly the point , the ethnicity of those targeted might have changed in the last few decades but it's not less unacceptable .
I find it incredible that it's just glossed over it's frankly a pretty horrible and divisive statement but it's no longer Jews, Irish or blacks that are being targeted. If we have concerns over issues then the key is to have a debate not to vilify a section of our community .
No, the point is that there are official statistics that indicate that a disproportionate number of Romanians are committing crime. That's not racist.
Is this report racist?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7856404/Police-statistics-shed-fresh-light-on-link-between-crime-and-race.html
I don't find that report racist in any way.
The leap from reporting facts to racism is when you say you wouldn't want Romanians/blacks living next door because of statistics.
Most paedophiles are white men, should we ban white men from being teachers?
Can you really not see the difference?
Has anyone ever said/implied "All Romanians are criminals"?
Definately an element of that but I'm mindful that he would have been targetting the fence sitters who might have been toying with the idea of voting UKIP.
You've only got to look at the hysteria of opportunist people (probably with agendas) who jump all over the backs of someone in the public eye who might send a politically incorrect tweet, e-mail or even wear the wrong fancy dress costume to assume it must work because it's everywhere.
That UKIP 'statistic' was exposed on Newsnight as a lie.
Is the actual figure the point?
I'd have thought the whole point is the fact that it's an open door policy open to all aspects of european society, the good, the bad and the indifferent.
I don't think people are as bothered about the "actual" number as they are that principle hence why UKIP appear to be immune according to the poll ratings.
Nigel Farage seems to have implied it.
I'm too pushed for time at the moment to go digging around for the link to rewatch it, but I think he said something like "there's a lot of criminality". Which isn't the same as saying - or even implying - that all of them are criminals.
If your a political party aspiring to be influential surely if your going to quote figures or statistics they should be correct surely ? Otherwise what's the point of a debate .
As regards the 'ATM crime ' it seems , from media reports I've seen , that no such statistics are available . If you want a grown up debate then as I've said surely you have to present accurate facts ?
What is institutional racism but a grouping of a community together and saying it cannot but help itself to be racist. If we do not like collectivisation of guilt then perhaps we should not do it at all.
So what are those quoted in post 477?
Of course I can see the difference.
Did Nigel Farage actually imply, "All Romanians are criminals"? I missed that bit.
His point is that the UK ought to be able to control who enters and filter out potential criminals. With the "freedom of movement" policy we can't do that, however, we can and apply it to people from outside the EU.
Are we to be absorbed into an EU-wide borderless "nation" akin to a region of a larger country? Or, as an island with a rich history of freedom, democracy, tolerance and world trade, are we going to be allowed once again to protect our citizens from undesirables ?
Perhaps UKIP should talk a bit more about what they're going to do to protect us from British undesirables then, rather than just Romanian ones, as that's what any rational person should be more concerned about.
Who said bodies that were institutionally racist couldn't help themselves? The police have made many reforms to address this problem once they accepted it was correct.
Maybe UKIP should follow their example?
MET response when the stat was used by Farage and media and people started querying it was. DCI Barnard is no longer head of the unit. There are no statistics available on this issue.
In an EU election campaign? I doubt it.
It makes as much sense as talking about an in/out referendum, which also can't be implemented from the EU parliament.
The point is about grouping communities. IF institutional racism is 'correct' then that places every white person within that group as either actively racist or inadvertently racist or tacitly racist in supporting a culture of racism. It is the collectivisation of a community and placing all in guilt mode, the very thing I thought you were objecting to?
Quite.
I'd have thought the wave of publicity they're currently experiencing would be the ideal time for them to put some policies which demonstrate they have credible ideas into the spotlight.