It's not being put down to him being a 'nice guy'. His perception was that he was a 'nice guy' or, in his words, "a perfect gentleman".
anyway, just reading some of that incel stuff and it's seriously quite disturbing. it makes me feel guilty for having often jokingly referred to myself on DS as an "enforced celibate".
It describes those men who are unsuccessful with women, and are usually pent up with resentment, confusion, anger and frustration that women tend to favour what they see as "bad boys" instead of choosing them, because they consider themselves as "nice guys"
They usually go on about how they would hold doors open for women and buy them flowers etc etc, but in laying all this down, fail to see that by doing so, they are instantly unattractive to women because they appear needy and obsessive, traits that are going to make women run a mile.
That's the kind of stereotypical nonsense am talking about and that's what I get angry about people on here just come out and say things and don't think about what they're saying first.
Describing yourself as a nice guy and being a nice guy are exactly the same thing. He killed people because he was mentally ill with a lot of issues being a nice guy wasn't one of them, don't see nice girls going on the rampage killing people see I can stereotype too. ;-)
I'm nearly 28, never had a girlfriend, and yes I'm still a "kissless virgin".
Now I'm in this position because of low self esteem, lack of confidence, social anxiety, inevitabley leading to poorer social skills. I don't blame anyone other than myself though, and certainly don't "blame" women for not finding that attractive.
You're post more or less implies that if people are struggling socially with women, they're not nice people? Sure, I don't believe all that rubbish that women deliberately go after "bad boys", they've often like men with confidence. You're not implying men who fail with women as "not nice people" are you?
I think your post is perhaps just a timely reminder that we need to guard against labelling everyone and fitting them into neat boxes. Not that anyone did it intentionally.
I'm nearly 28, never had a girlfriend, and yes I'm still a "kissless virgin".
Now I'm in this position because of low self esteem, lack of confidence, social anxiety, inevitabley leading to poorer social skills. I don't blame anyone other than myself though, and certainly don't "blame" women for not finding that attractive.
You're post more or less implies that if people are struggling socially with women, they're not nice people? Sure, I don't believe all that rubbish that women deliberately go after "bad boys", they've often like men with confidence. You're not implying men who fail with women as "not nice people" are you?
I don't think that's what he's saying at all, Thomas. Just passing comment on the nice guy vs Nice Guy phenomenon, two very different things.
You're shy, you lack confidence, it doesn't mean you're not endearing and lovable. Some people are late starters in the game of love, that's all. Don't let it define who you are.
That's the kind of stereotypical nonsense am talking about and that's what I get angry about people on here just come out and say things and don't think about what they're saying first.
Describing yourself as a nice guy and being a nice guy are exactly the same thing. He killed people because he was mentally ill with a lot of issues being a nice guy wasn't one of them, don't see nice girls going on the rampage killing people see I can stereotype too. ;-)
No, a 'Nice Guy' is just a term used (not just on here) to describe the type of person he came across as. The type who expects females to flock to him and sees women as conquests only and not people to be friends or develop real relationships with.
The type that buy you a drink and then automatically think they now have the right to your phone number and, when you refuse because you are getting a feeling that all is not right, call you a dirty **** (ok that's just a personal anecdote there).
Not actual nice people, who can be either male or female and make up the majority of the population.
That's the kind of stereotypical nonsense am talking about and that's what I get angry about people on here just come out and say things and don't think about what they're saying first.
Describing yourself as a nice guy and being a nice guy are exactly the same thing. He killed people because he was mentally ill with a lot of issues being a nice guy wasn't one of them, don't see nice girls going on the rampage killing people see I can stereotype too. ;-)
People seem to be getting the term 'Nice Guy' mixed up with genuinely nice people.
Those who are referred to as 'Nice Guys' are actually not nice guys at all more sad losers who blame their social awkwardness/ lack of success with women on the misguided notion that the reason they are shunned by them is because they are 'nice' as opposed to the real reason which is because they are desperado creepy oddballs, with esteem issues and no small degree of self loathing. .
I've seen lots of people kicked up the arse for things they did, and it didn't help.
Obviously the kick wasn't hard enough if it didn't work. But in this guys case it wasn't needed for what he did.......but what he didn't do. *Hint* such as being occupied by work and shown that's where respect and lifes rewards come from....not from the potty parents Bank account.
It's weird. Reading through this thread has made me realise I had a brush with a guy like that when I was younger. I was quite shy and in a relationship but out with my friends as one had just graduated. This guy hit on me and I refused a drink, didn't really want to speak to him so said politely that I was just out for a quiet night with my friends and he started being really mean calling me a frigid bitch. It was nothing to do with how how attractive he was, it was about me being out with my friends and not looking to hook up. In hindsight I pity the poor woman who eventually ended up with him.
I had a vaguely unsettling experience with a bloke at college, he was very persistent, and when I declined the opportunity of going for dinner with him in favour of going to a gig with my friends, he called me a lesbian. My twin sister is gay, so that's not even an insult to me. But he was so angry, he was redfaced and spitting as he shouted at me. I avoided going anywhere he might be for months afterwards.
But what do radical feminists have to do with anything?
A common theme is for these narcissistic, self absorbed young men to blame feminism for any problems they have with women. Its very self defeating behaviour as instead of focusing on the real problem, themselves, they seek to blame it on something else and the easiest thing is feminism and its apparent affect on women (basically that they arn't doormats for men anymore, boo hoo hoo).
That's the kind of stereotypical nonsense am talking about and that's what I get angry about people on here just come out and say things and don't think about what they're saying first.
Describing yourself as a nice guy and being a nice guy are exactly the same thing. He killed people because he was mentally ill with a lot of issues being a nice guy wasn't one of them, don't see nice girls going on the rampage killing people see I can stereotype too. ;-)
From urban dictionary:
Nice Guy Syndrome
A annoying mental condition in which a heterosexual man concocts over simplified ideas why women aren’t flocking to him in droves. Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance. He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship; misrepresenting his intentions of wanting to be her friend and having the expectation that he is owed more than friendship because he is such a good listener. He is prone to brooding over this and passive aggressive behavior.
He is too stupid to realize the reason women don’t find him attractive is because he feels sorry for himself, he concludes that women like to be treated like shit.
Hence the need for grandly announcing himself on the beginning of each clip.
Obviously the kick wasn't hard enough if it didn't work. But in this guys case it wasn't needed for what he did.......but what he didn't do. *Hint* such as being occupied by work and shown that's where respect and lifes rewards come from....not from the potty parents Bank account.
The grandly announcing himself was after he went insane though (although I don't mean criminally insane). But to say those were the actions of a sane person, I don't think so.
You don't know if he could have worked, since he wasn't even functioning in college. He could have ended up killing his boss if he worked.
I had a vaguely unsettling experience with a bloke at college, he was very persistent, and when I declined the opportunity of going for dinner with him in favour of going to a gig with my friends, he called me a lesbian. My twin sister is gay, so that's not even an insult to me. But he was so angry, he was redfaced and spitting as he shouted at me. I avoided going anywhere he might be for months afterwards.
BIB gave me a :D:D:D moment! Sorry but just being honest!
Had i been you i'd have been tempted to respond very quickly with a, "that's shattered your dreams of getting in my panties then hasn't it?" :D
For the record, I gave back to society by being in St John Ambulance etc.
And I've graciously been a brother figure. Then again - I had a solid foundation for the first 8 years - and my parents were together till I was 20.
Unlike this guy.
I survived - became a Christian at 17, was one of the first people diagnosed at 16, and have helped other kids on the spectrum through by sticking my head in MRI and FPET scanners - being a subject for loads of autism researchers.
I do audiovisual at my local church. I have friends of both sexes.
Spent a lot of time in counselling and working though the effects of the abuse. Working slowly on my weight.
I was lucky to live in the era I did. My cohort built the infrastructure you young kids now use. Patrick Bossert is my age.
I've been the brother-figure but not the boyfriend.
As I said - people my age built the infrastucture you kids are now using. Folks just a little older like Steve Furber designed the ARM infrastructure in the smartphones and tablets used nowadays. People my age designed the protocols used.
Tim Berners-Lee is near my age.
But yes. At 14-16, it could have been me. Ever so easily.
Incessant bullying and sexual abuse can do that to a boy.
I'm coming out the other end, dealing with the effects.
If you consider that this is the Hollywood myth sold through the American mass media.
Get rich, get success, get the girl.
If you have this thrown at you... but there is no other community.. and you';re constantly ostracised...
And derided for showing weakness. And demonised just because you have a Y chromosome.
When you see this...
"You cured cancer? No woman?........Loser
You feed the hungry? No woman?.....Loser
You design or build things? No woman?....Loser
You work at the water treatment plant to provide clean potable water? No woman?.....Loser
You have no job, education, marketable skills and a criminal history a mile long, and have fathered legions of bastard kids with equally stupid women........NOW THATS A REAL MAN!!!"
It can drive a guy to despair. You go either of two ways.
You either kill yourself or take a load of people with you - or it is very easy to think that.
If there is a community, you could find a haven.
or, if you discover it... you walk away.
If you buy into this so called myth then more fool you.
Your stance is both worrying and entirely non representative of pretty much every male that I know.
It's worrying in that it seems to justify some of the more delusional rubbish that the 'nice guy'/ creepy daystalkers come out with. It's nonsense.
If people are so insecure as to define themselves solely by whether or not they have a girlfriend/ wife then I'd say it is the individual that has the major problem here, not society.
Nice Guy Syndrome
A annoying mental condition in which a heterosexual man concocts over simplified ideas why women aren’t flocking to him in droves. Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance. He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship; misrepresenting his intentions of wanting to be her friend and having the expectation that he is owed more than friendship because he is such a good listener. He is prone to brooding over this and passive aggressive behavior.
He is too stupid to realize the reason women don’t find him attractive is because he feels sorry for himself, he concludes that women like to be treated like shit.
Wye Aye. It is truly pathetic the level of self pitying on this thread in correlation with massive amounts of sympathy for a psychotic murderer.
'Drive a guy to despair' give me a break. Again it exposes the nauseating entitlement complex many men appear to have when it comes to women.
Exactly. These self proclaimed Nice Guys can't see what total entitled, rude, obnoxious and sociopathic creepy weirdos they come across as.
I've experienced one in a bar who came over to me and greeted me with "hello beautiful lady may I get you a drink". I having a boyfriend at the time replied with "aw thank you, but I'm with my boyfriend" he told me I was a ****, probably a lesbian, and a bitch anyway.
For the record, I gave back to society by being in St John Ambulance etc.
And I've graciously been a brother figure. Then again - I had a solid foundation for the first 8 years - and my parents were together till I was 20.
Unlike this guy.
I survived - became a Christian at 17, was one of the first people diagnosed at 16, and have helped other kids on the spectrum through by sticking my head in MRI and FPET scanners - being a subject for loads of autism researchers.
I do audiovisual at my local church. I have friends of both sexes.
Spent a lot of time in counselling and working though the effects of the abuse. Working slowly on my weight.
I was lucky to live in the era I did. My cohort built the infrastructure you young kids now use. Patrick Bossert is my age.
I've been the brother-figure but not the boyfriend.
As I said - people my age built the infrastucture you kids are now using. Folks just a little older like Steve Furber designed the ARM infrastructure in the smartphones and tablets used nowadays. People my age designed the protocols used.
Tim Berners-Lee is near my age.
But yes. At 14-16, it could have been me. Ever so easily.
Incessant bullying and sexual abuse can do that to a boy.
I'm coming out the other end, dealing with the effects.
This is the planet we've created for ourselves I'm afraid....The 'media' is an outlet to express what the 'people' want and crave - The media tells you that you must look a certain way, have a certain amount of money, be a certain weight, and more....it's a lot of pressure for most people who want to conform in society, and if you can't achieve these things that the media pushes, feelings of worthlessness, insecurity, and depression can kick in.
More recently, with these 'reality' shows, such as T.O.W.I.E, unrealistic and fake perfection is pushed harder than it ever has been in history - young men have watched the nation's females swoon over guys like 'Mark Wright' and other men of a similar type, with the looks, the money, the car, the body etc...Now the young men of today think that this is what it takes to be desirable to women - this is why you'll see guys of 2014 wearing make up, removing their body hair, and spending longer than women to glam up before leaving the house....
As mentioned, the media is 'man made' and they only push what people want....
In 2014, it seems most young women DO want their men to be 'perfect' like they've seen on television - the proof, regardless to what they say, is the type of men they'd say they're attracted to if you asked...
So, I can understand this guys frustration with 'women' in general as many men would admit to feeling the same - what he did though? Totally disgusting. This guy was clearly playing out a 'movie' type of scenario in real life and wanted to leave a legacy, with the message being clear.
Lastly, the guys who get women often have a combination of good looks, high social status, charm, lots of money, nice material things, and the most cliched of them all, a nice car - these ARE the things that lots of women want, regardless to what they might say. If you have a few of these, you can probably do ok - if you have them all, you're a winner.
The man in question probably had poor social skills, and no idea how to approach women or what to say to them - as he had ok looks, celeb connections in the family, money and a nice car, he's the ultimate douchebag for still not being able to find enough courage to actually sell himself in a positive way. If your personality completely sucks, you'll alienate all people around you.
This Nice Guy nonsense,. It's another version of self-harming, isn't it?
It would defeat the object of their reason for being if a woman actually said "Fancy coming back to my place?"
I've experienced one in a bar who came over to me and greeted me with "hello beautiful lady may I get you a drink". I having a boyfriend at the time replied with "aw thank you, but I'm with my boyfriend" he told me I was a ****, probably a lesbian, and a bitch anyway.
Haha that almost exactly mirrors the experience I just mentioned.
Guy tells me I'm beautiful and wants to buy me a drink. I accept. As we chat he's coming across a little odd and when he asks for my number after a couple of minutes I say I am not that comfortable just giving my number out that quickly.
The grandly announcing himself was after he went insane though (although I don't mean criminally insane). But to say those were the actions of a sane person, I don't think so.
Then i will have to remember that next time i introduce myself to anyone to add "by the way i am insane".
You don't know if he could have worked, since he wasn't even functioning in college. He could have ended up killing his boss if he worked.
Again, there's not an easy answer.
More chance of some seriously firm discipline working than not. The reason he wasn't 'functioning' was because as i've already said many times before, he simply had way way too much time on his hands.
Comments
That's the kind of stereotypical nonsense am talking about and that's what I get angry about people on here just come out and say things and don't think about what they're saying first.
Describing yourself as a nice guy and being a nice guy are exactly the same thing. He killed people because he was mentally ill with a lot of issues being a nice guy wasn't one of them, don't see nice girls going on the rampage killing people see I can stereotype too. ;-)
I think your post is perhaps just a timely reminder that we need to guard against labelling everyone and fitting them into neat boxes. Not that anyone did it intentionally.
You're shy, you lack confidence, it doesn't mean you're not endearing and lovable. Some people are late starters in the game of love, that's all. Don't let it define who you are.
Sounds like the title of a film. A bit like Hobo with a Shotgun but worse.
No, a 'Nice Guy' is just a term used (not just on here) to describe the type of person he came across as. The type who expects females to flock to him and sees women as conquests only and not people to be friends or develop real relationships with.
The type that buy you a drink and then automatically think they now have the right to your phone number and, when you refuse because you are getting a feeling that all is not right, call you a dirty **** (ok that's just a personal anecdote there).
Not actual nice people, who can be either male or female and make up the majority of the population.
People seem to be getting the term 'Nice Guy' mixed up with genuinely nice people.
Those who are referred to as 'Nice Guys' are actually not nice guys at all more sad losers who blame their social awkwardness/ lack of success with women on the misguided notion that the reason they are shunned by them is because they are 'nice' as opposed to the real reason which is because they are desperado creepy oddballs, with esteem issues and no small degree of self loathing. .
I hope this helps.
Obviously the kick wasn't hard enough if it didn't work. But in this guys case it wasn't needed for what he did.......but what he didn't do. *Hint* such as being occupied by work and shown that's where respect and lifes rewards come from....not from the potty parents Bank account.
A common theme is for these narcissistic, self absorbed young men to blame feminism for any problems they have with women. Its very self defeating behaviour as instead of focusing on the real problem, themselves, they seek to blame it on something else and the easiest thing is feminism and its apparent affect on women (basically that they arn't doormats for men anymore, boo hoo hoo).
From urban dictionary:
Nice Guy Syndrome
A annoying mental condition in which a heterosexual man concocts over simplified ideas why women aren’t flocking to him in droves. Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance. He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship; misrepresenting his intentions of wanting to be her friend and having the expectation that he is owed more than friendship because he is such a good listener. He is prone to brooding over this and passive aggressive behavior.
He is too stupid to realize the reason women don’t find him attractive is because he feels sorry for himself, he concludes that women like to be treated like shit.
The grandly announcing himself was after he went insane though (although I don't mean criminally insane). But to say those were the actions of a sane person, I don't think so.
You don't know if he could have worked, since he wasn't even functioning in college. He could have ended up killing his boss if he worked.
Again, there's not an easy answer.
Had i been you i'd have been tempted to respond very quickly with a, "that's shattered your dreams of getting in my panties then hasn't it?"
And I've graciously been a brother figure. Then again - I had a solid foundation for the first 8 years - and my parents were together till I was 20.
Unlike this guy.
I survived - became a Christian at 17, was one of the first people diagnosed at 16, and have helped other kids on the spectrum through by sticking my head in MRI and FPET scanners - being a subject for loads of autism researchers.
I do audiovisual at my local church. I have friends of both sexes.
Spent a lot of time in counselling and working though the effects of the abuse. Working slowly on my weight.
I was lucky to live in the era I did. My cohort built the infrastructure you young kids now use. Patrick Bossert is my age.
I've been the brother-figure but not the boyfriend.
As I said - people my age built the infrastucture you kids are now using. Folks just a little older like Steve Furber designed the ARM infrastructure in the smartphones and tablets used nowadays. People my age designed the protocols used.
Tim Berners-Lee is near my age.
But yes. At 14-16, it could have been me. Ever so easily.
Incessant bullying and sexual abuse can do that to a boy.
I'm coming out the other end, dealing with the effects.
Frank Peretti wrote about it in his book The Wounded Spirit. Klebold and Harris was current.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Wounded-Spirit-Frank-Peretti/dp/0849916739
He suffered from polio.
Went on to be a Christian author.
If you buy into this so called myth then more fool you.
Your stance is both worrying and entirely non representative of pretty much every male that I know.
It's worrying in that it seems to justify some of the more delusional rubbish that the 'nice guy'/ creepy daystalkers come out with. It's nonsense.
If people are so insecure as to define themselves solely by whether or not they have a girlfriend/ wife then I'd say it is the individual that has the major problem here, not society.
Yep - that nailed it!
Exactly. These self proclaimed Nice Guys can't see what total entitled, rude, obnoxious and sociopathic creepy weirdos they come across as.
I've experienced one in a bar who came over to me and greeted me with "hello beautiful lady may I get you a drink". I having a boyfriend at the time replied with "aw thank you, but I'm with my boyfriend" he told me I was a ****, probably a lesbian, and a bitch anyway.
Good for you. Cheers and good luck.
Do you come across in real life as you do on here?
and the young men he killed too.
More recently, with these 'reality' shows, such as T.O.W.I.E, unrealistic and fake perfection is pushed harder than it ever has been in history - young men have watched the nation's females swoon over guys like 'Mark Wright' and other men of a similar type, with the looks, the money, the car, the body etc...Now the young men of today think that this is what it takes to be desirable to women - this is why you'll see guys of 2014 wearing make up, removing their body hair, and spending longer than women to glam up before leaving the house....
As mentioned, the media is 'man made' and they only push what people want....
In 2014, it seems most young women DO want their men to be 'perfect' like they've seen on television - the proof, regardless to what they say, is the type of men they'd say they're attracted to if you asked...
So, I can understand this guys frustration with 'women' in general as many men would admit to feeling the same - what he did though? Totally disgusting. This guy was clearly playing out a 'movie' type of scenario in real life and wanted to leave a legacy, with the message being clear.
Lastly, the guys who get women often have a combination of good looks, high social status, charm, lots of money, nice material things, and the most cliched of them all, a nice car - these ARE the things that lots of women want, regardless to what they might say. If you have a few of these, you can probably do ok - if you have them all, you're a winner.
The man in question probably had poor social skills, and no idea how to approach women or what to say to them - as he had ok looks, celeb connections in the family, money and a nice car, he's the ultimate douchebag for still not being able to find enough courage to actually sell himself in a positive way. If your personality completely sucks, you'll alienate all people around you.
It would defeat the object of their reason for being if a woman actually said "Fancy coming back to my place?"
Haha that almost exactly mirrors the experience I just mentioned.
Guy tells me I'm beautiful and wants to buy me a drink. I accept. As we chat he's coming across a little odd and when he asks for my number after a couple of minutes I say I am not that comfortable just giving my number out that quickly.
That makes me a dirty **** apparently
More chance of some seriously firm discipline working than not. The reason he wasn't 'functioning' was because as i've already said many times before, he simply had way way too much time on his hands.