No, but I wasnt even thought of then I know what you mean though.
The prosecution 'proved' he was there by showing a tour poster of the time, but even so that doesnt necessarily mean he was there
Only on DS would peoples viewing be more important than someone else's pain.
To be honest Sweet Peanut as you will see from reading the posts the majority of the posters are acutely aware of the pain and suffering of these children and adults who suffered at the hands of these people
But surely to eridicate these people from history would do much more harm than good
People need to KNOW about this and today's kids also need to be sent the message that they should not be frightend to speak up
HOWEVER the majority of the cast and crew who worked on these shows were TOTALLY INNOCENT of any wrongdoing
Why should they be deprived of not only airtime but also repeat fees from shows they worked hard on ???
So far as those found guilty are concerned they should feel the full weight of the law and serve the full sentences they are given
As so many have said where do you draw the line ???
To give an (unrelated )example would you have advocated sacking every single member of staff of The Daily Mirror for what Robert Maxwell did ??
Of course not
To be honest Sweet Peanut as you will see from reading the posts the majority of the posters are acutely aware of the pain and suffering of these children and adults who suffered at the hands of these people
But surely to eridicate these people from history would do much more harm than good
People need to KNOW about this and today's kids also need to be sent the message that they should not be frightend to speak up
HOWEVER the majority of the cast and crew who worked on these shows were TOTALLY INNOCENT of any wrongdoing
Why should they be deprived of not only airtime but also repeat fees from shows they worked hard on ???
So far as those found guilty are concerned they should feel the full weight of the law and serve the full sentences they are given
As so many have said where do you draw the line ???
To give an (unrelated )example would you have advocated sacking every single member of staff of The Daily Mirror for what Robert Maxwell did ??
Of course not
Well, it depends on the shows and the context in which they're shown. People on DS seem to really struggle with context.
If a programme is being shown as a historical retrospective such as BBC Four's TOTP, it might be over-zealous to remove references to or appearances by subsequently convicted (or even formally alleged) sex offenders. However, if a programme is being presented as light entertainment for all the family, it would be inappropriate to have light-hearted references to or appearances by Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile.
When it comes to the shows hosted by Rolf and Jimmy, these had little or no repeat value anyway. It would take a very brave or very stupid TV Exec to put their job on the line by attempting to justify a repeat run of Jim'll Fix It or Rolf's Cartoon Club
Only on DS would peoples viewing be more important than someone else's pain.
Why should TV broadcasters refrain from mentioning Savile's name? There's articles about him on news sites and mentions of his name on this forum. I don't think TV is any different.
Why should TV broadcasters refrain from mentioning Savile's name? There's articles about him on news sites and mentions of his name on this forum. I don't think TV is any different.
Like Sue Cook, he couldn't remember doing the Cambridge filming. Faulty memory amongst those making allegations (like being several years out with your own age at a certain time) is apparently perfectly understandable. Faulty memory among the accused is 'lying'.
Didn't Sue say they were bussed in to some anonymous recreation ground (or similar) which could have been anywhere? The outskirts of towns tend to look much the same, so unless they were bang outside King's College or something, it's quite understandable not to recall it as being "in Cambridge".
Well, it depends on the shows and the context in which they're shown. People on DS seem to really struggle with context.
When it comes to the shows hosted by Rolf and Jimmy, these had little or no repeat value anyway. It would take a very brave or very stupid TV Exec to put their job on the line by attempting to justify a repeat run of Jim'll Fix It or Rolf's Cartoon Club
If you look at my previous post regarding The Good Old Days I did actually say on there that I would not consider showing a full series or even a single episode of the shows they star in such as those you mention
But there's no reason not to show let's say The Good old days in which Hall is frequently seem in the audience but not performing or presenting
Now were Itv to decide to repeat the An Audience With Shows that MIGHT cause a problem .....🙀
If you look at my previous post regarding The Good Old Days I did actually say on there that I would not consider showing a full series or even a single episode of the shows they star in
But there's no reason not to show let's say The Good old days in which Hall is frequently seem in the audience but not performing or presenting
Now were Itv to decide to repeat the An Audience With Shows that MIGHT cause a problem .....🙀
Yes! I'm thinking of the Edna Everage one where Edna rips the piss out of Rolf's wife's dress by comparing it to a carpet!
Didn't Sue say they were bussed in to some anonymous recreation ground (or similar) which could have been anywhere? The outskirts of towns tend to look much the same, so unless they were bang outside King's College or something, it's quite understandable not to recall it as being "in Cambridge".
Quite. Whereas forgetting what age you were when you were assaulted strikes me as hardly less peculiar, but there's a disturbing imbalance of credulity in these cases.
Are you seriously saying that Saville's, Harris's et al crimes, as awful and horryfing as they (alledgedly, in Saville's case) are, are comparable to what Hitler did?! You know why you hate Godwin's Law? It's because people compare all sort of wild and ridiculous things to Hitler etc and the only person who doesn't think it's ridiculous is the person who's done it, so yes, you have 'proved' Godwin's Law.
Were it to happen (and it probably will), cutting mentions of these light entertainers from light entertainment fluff pieces of broadcasting is not remotely in the same galaxy as pretending Hitler didn't exist, [ETA]and to believe that not cutting them will prevent it happening again is incredibly naive. It will happen again. The schedules could be 24 x 7 Jim'll Fix It and Cartoon Time and it'll still happen again. Over and over and over ad infinitum.
ETA - what Harris did isn't even comparable to what Saville allegedly did, let alone Hitler.
I don't think the poster meant it in that way. What he's trying to say is we mention hitler and haven't airbrushed him out of history yet Saville harris etc seem to be a taboo subject now and we just don't want to mention them now
It's ridiculous for the media to air brush people out of history. Acknowledging their existence is a way to learn and help people to read the signs in the future to stop the opportunities for abuse occurring.
It's ridiculous for the media to air brush people out of history. Acknowledging their existence is a way to learn and help people to read the signs in the future to stop the opportunities for abuse occurring.
We haven't airbrushed Hitler, as he isnt on the TV/newspapers with everyone saying what a lovely kind man he is/was and playing his little songs and people remembering with affection.
We haven't airbrushed Hitler, as he isnt on the TV/newspapers with everyone saying what a lovely kind man he is/was and playing his little songs and people remembering with affection.
What cant people get about that?
I don't know as I wasn't referring to Hitler. All I know that when I was growing up in the 70s and in the retrospectives of the 80s, Gary Glitter was THE glam rock star of that time. He was all over the place. He has now been erased from retrospectives and it seems that Slade now has that accolade. I have no doubt that most references to JS and to Rolf in popular culture will be subject to the same fate, even though they were both part of the British culture for about 50 years.
Cherry picking what we are told about the past is nothing new though. Historical references are often altered to make them more palatable to today's society. It doesn't take long for people's memories to fade or for a generation to die, and that way only an 'accepted' view of society remains. History is written by the victors - and also by those who control the media.
I don't know as I wasn't referring to Hitler. All I know that when I was growing up in the 70s and in the retrospectives of the 80s, Gary Glitter was THE glam rock star of that time. He was all over the place. He has now been erased from retrospectives and it seems that Slade now has that accolade. I have no doubt that most references to JS and to Rolf in popular culture will be subject to the same fate, even though they were both part of the British culture for about 50 years.
Cherry picking what we are told about the past is nothing new though. Historical references are often altered to make them more palatable to today's society. It doesn't take long for people's memories to fade or for a generation to die, and that way only an 'accepted' view of society remains. History is written by the victors - and also by those who control the media.
Sorry I quoted the wrong post. It was the one above yours that I meant to quote.
I was a young teen in the 70s and loved! GG had all his music. But even though I loved it then, it leaves a bad taste if I hear it now. I was abused maybe that is why.
I could not care less what members here think about their TV programmes being chopped. I care about those that were abused and looked to police and elders to help them and they were disbelieved.
At least now they dont have to hear people saying what lovely men they were.
Sorry I quoted the wrong post. It was the one above yours that I meant to quote.
I was a young teen in the 70s and loved! GG had all his music. But even though I loved it then, it leaves a bad taste if I hear it now. I was abused maybe that is why.
I could not care less what members here think about their TV programmes being chopped. I care about those that were abused and looked to police and elders to help them and they were disbelieved.
At least now they dont have to hear people saying what lovely men they were.
Ultimately though I don't think it helps anyone to erase these people from history. I'm sure that for people who have been abused it is best for them to confront their experience and learn to live with it then it is to pretend it never happened. You say that they don't want to have to hear people say what a lovely man he was - but for decades that was the truth, people thought Harris was a lovely man. I've always been of the opinion that the truth, though painful at times, is never wrong.
If the gestapo, sorry, the police come round your house and find them then it's a possibility (guilt by association).
The only remedy is for all the Towns and Cities across the land to create a designated area of wasteland for people to bring their books, magazines, dvd's (including box-sets), video tapes, autographed photographs and any other material that has any of these celebrities involved and have a bonfire.
A kind of modern day book burning.
If they came round my house id tell them what I really feel about the whole situation because im sick of my comments here being removed and then giving a temp ban when we are supposed to have a freedom of speech. Which is why if I have anything to say ill just say it on facebook instead!
Me personally no I wouldnt burn my stuff of books, tapes, DVDs because I actually paid money for them and dont see why I should do it to please some person online.
Yes, and we knew that at the time is was in Eastenders.
You obviously didn't read the papers in those days then. The fuss was of outrageous proportions. If DS or the internet had been around, it would have exploded
The difference is. He went to prison and paid for his crime in the eyes of the law.
Savile and Harries lived a great life while victims were not believed.
Removing references of these people doesn't stop them existing or mean their crimes never happened. If anything they should be kept to remind viewers they exist and what they did.
If the Benidorm episode is repeated in, say, ten years' time and someone who is a child now watches, they could then be told, as a teenager, who Harris is and what he's done.
Obviously things like the HIGNFY episode Rolf presented shouldn't be shown because he'd earn money for it, and he was in it all the way through, but a throwaway comment should stay.
If Hugh Dennis's Saville impressions were removed he would barely feature on MTW.
Haven't read the whole thread but there was a scene involving Jimmy Savile in an episode of Life on Mars. Sam is watching TOTP and his aunty speaks to him from the TV, the episode is presented by Savile. No doubt they'll cut this out of repeats which are currently showing on Sony TV I would have thought.
Haven't read the whole thread but there was a scene involving Jimmy Savile in an episode of Life on Mars. Sam is watching TOTP and his aunty speaks to him from the TV, the episode is presented by Savile. No doubt they'll cut this out of repeats which are currently showing on Sony TV I would have thought.
If that was made these days we could have had Gene Hunt appear and start Kicking Savile in the head. After all he liked Kicking in Nonces.
Removing references of these people doesn't stop them existing or mean their crimes never happened. If anything they should be kept to remind viewers they exist and what they did.
If the Benidorm episode is repeated in, say, ten years' time and someone who is a child now watches, they could then be told, as a teenager, who Harris is and what he's done.
Obviously things like the HIGNFY episode Rolf presented shouldn't be shown because he'd earn money for it, and he was in it all the way through, but a throwaway comment should stay.
If Hugh Dennis's Saville impressions were removed he would barely feature on MTW.
Comments
Can you remember where you were on a specific day 40 years ago
The prosecution 'proved' he was there by showing a tour poster of the time, but even so that doesnt necessarily mean he was there
To be honest Sweet Peanut as you will see from reading the posts the majority of the posters are acutely aware of the pain and suffering of these children and adults who suffered at the hands of these people
But surely to eridicate these people from history would do much more harm than good
People need to KNOW about this and today's kids also need to be sent the message that they should not be frightend to speak up
HOWEVER the majority of the cast and crew who worked on these shows were TOTALLY INNOCENT of any wrongdoing
Why should they be deprived of not only airtime but also repeat fees from shows they worked hard on ???
So far as those found guilty are concerned they should feel the full weight of the law and serve the full sentences they are given
As so many have said where do you draw the line ???
To give an (unrelated )example would you have advocated sacking every single member of staff of The Daily Mirror for what Robert Maxwell did ??
Of course not
If a programme is being shown as a historical retrospective such as BBC Four's TOTP, it might be over-zealous to remove references to or appearances by subsequently convicted (or even formally alleged) sex offenders. However, if a programme is being presented as light entertainment for all the family, it would be inappropriate to have light-hearted references to or appearances by Rolf Harris and Jimmy Savile.
When it comes to the shows hosted by Rolf and Jimmy, these had little or no repeat value anyway. It would take a very brave or very stupid TV Exec to put their job on the line by attempting to justify a repeat run of Jim'll Fix It or Rolf's Cartoon Club
Why should TV broadcasters refrain from mentioning Savile's name? There's articles about him on news sites and mentions of his name on this forum. I don't think TV is any different.
Didn't Sue say they were bussed in to some anonymous recreation ground (or similar) which could have been anywhere? The outskirts of towns tend to look much the same, so unless they were bang outside King's College or something, it's quite understandable not to recall it as being "in Cambridge".
If you look at my previous post regarding The Good Old Days I did actually say on there that I would not consider showing a full series or even a single episode of the shows they star in such as those you mention
But there's no reason not to show let's say The Good old days in which Hall is frequently seem in the audience but not performing or presenting
Now were Itv to decide to repeat the An Audience With Shows that MIGHT cause a problem .....🙀
Yes! I'm thinking of the Edna Everage one where Edna rips the piss out of Rolf's wife's dress by comparing it to a carpet!
Quite. Whereas forgetting what age you were when you were assaulted strikes me as hardly less peculiar, but there's a disturbing imbalance of credulity in these cases.
I don't think the poster meant it in that way. What he's trying to say is we mention hitler and haven't airbrushed him out of history yet Saville harris etc seem to be a taboo subject now and we just don't want to mention them now
We haven't airbrushed Hitler, as he isnt on the TV/newspapers with everyone saying what a lovely kind man he is/was and playing his little songs and people remembering with affection.
What cant people get about that?
I don't know as I wasn't referring to Hitler. All I know that when I was growing up in the 70s and in the retrospectives of the 80s, Gary Glitter was THE glam rock star of that time. He was all over the place. He has now been erased from retrospectives and it seems that Slade now has that accolade. I have no doubt that most references to JS and to Rolf in popular culture will be subject to the same fate, even though they were both part of the British culture for about 50 years.
Cherry picking what we are told about the past is nothing new though. Historical references are often altered to make them more palatable to today's society. It doesn't take long for people's memories to fade or for a generation to die, and that way only an 'accepted' view of society remains. History is written by the victors - and also by those who control the media.
Sorry I quoted the wrong post. It was the one above yours that I meant to quote.
I was a young teen in the 70s and loved! GG had all his music. But even though I loved it then, it leaves a bad taste if I hear it now. I was abused maybe that is why.
I could not care less what members here think about their TV programmes being chopped. I care about those that were abused and looked to police and elders to help them and they were disbelieved.
At least now they dont have to hear people saying what lovely men they were.
Ultimately though I don't think it helps anyone to erase these people from history. I'm sure that for people who have been abused it is best for them to confront their experience and learn to live with it then it is to pretend it never happened. You say that they don't want to have to hear people say what a lovely man he was - but for decades that was the truth, people thought Harris was a lovely man. I've always been of the opinion that the truth, though painful at times, is never wrong.
Yes, and we knew that at the time is was in Eastenders.
If they came round my house id tell them what I really feel about the whole situation because im sick of my comments here being removed and then giving a temp ban when we are supposed to have a freedom of speech. Which is why if I have anything to say ill just say it on facebook instead!
Me personally no I wouldnt burn my stuff of books, tapes, DVDs because I actually paid money for them and dont see why I should do it to please some person online.
You obviously didn't read the papers in those days then. The fuss was of outrageous proportions. If DS or the internet had been around, it would have exploded
The difference is. He went to prison and paid for his crime in the eyes of the law.
Savile and Harries lived a great life while victims were not believed.
If the Benidorm episode is repeated in, say, ten years' time and someone who is a child now watches, they could then be told, as a teenager, who Harris is and what he's done.
Obviously things like the HIGNFY episode Rolf presented shouldn't be shown because he'd earn money for it, and he was in it all the way through, but a throwaway comment should stay.
If Hugh Dennis's Saville impressions were removed he would barely feature on MTW.
If that was made these days we could have had Gene Hunt appear and start Kicking Savile in the head. After all he liked Kicking in Nonces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHP3Jih_rfA
EXCELLENT POST AND MY POINT EXACTLY