It does not matter if it was 'set up' or not. The fact remains they discriminated and broke the law. The easiest way the bakery could have got around this (although someone on here would need to confirm the legality) would be to advise the customer that the wording would be done by a third party. The bakery could then have taken the order and asked someone else who had no problem with gay people to place the wording on the cake.
Cake is still made to order, job done.
The customer was being awkward. Why not get some gay friends to bake the cake instead?
The law should be changed. If its a government funded business, then fair enough. However if a private individual put up his own money to start a business, and gets no government grants, then he should be able to sell to whom ever they please.
I thought this was free country.
Yes, it is. That also means the right to be free from unfair discrimination.
Not "pursuing" a "gay lifestyle" - I wonder if they mean not acting upon their in-built sexuality.
A black person could in that case not "pursue" their "black lifestyle" by 'whiting up'. Of course they'd still be black underneath, a bit like the way a gay person even if they were celibate and ignored their true feelings they'd still be gay. You can't avoid or stop these things.
Oh come on. This has 'set-up' written all over it (as it were:D).
As FMKK noted upthread, the bakery is known for not making First Communion cakes.
Of course the fact that it is almost certainly a set-up does not invalidate the guy's attempt to get the bakery's decision tested in court but let's not pretend that this is some innocent purchaser who had no idea what would happen.
We have no idea whether the customer was "innocent" or not.
The customer was being awkward. Why not get some gay friends to bake the cake instead?
Why should he? He went to a bakery to ask for it to be done. That's what it is there for. Just as I would go to a garage to get my car fixed, not ask some 'gay mates' to do it.
This type: "an activist from the QueerSpace pressure group approached the Belfast bakery chain and ordered a cake decorated with the words ‘support gay marriage’."
The type who deliberately set out to provoke a confrontation and then shout foul. The message he wanted was clearly intended to be controversial. A genuine message on a cake would have been 'congratulations on your wedding' or something like that.
Perhaps best not to make assumptions about what the cake was for.
I see that the guy is also a gay rights activist who out of all the places he could have chosen to have the cake made he deliberately chose a Christian bakery. The guy sounds like a total knobhead if you ask me. This was clearly all set up to get the bakery owners in trouble and make the local papers.
I agree. Quite clearly he set out to create a fight and get his five minutes of fame in the tabloids. I wonder how many cake orders he had accepted before he found this one bakery who refused him?
Oh come on. This has 'set-up' written all over it (as it were:D).
As FMKK noted upthread, the bakery is known for not making First Communion cakes.
Of course the fact that it is almost certainly a set-up does not invalidate the guy's attempt to get the bakery's decision tested in court but let's not pretend that this is some innocent purchaser who had no idea what would happen.
I think saying they are known for not doing communion cakes is stretching the truth a bit. I buy from them and have never known or heard of them being discriminatory towards Catholics, I wouldn't shop with them if they were.
Well there you go, a niche market is awaiting someone out there willing to run a gay-friendly bakery making queer cakes.
And as the activist customer represents an organisation called Queerspace I see nothing wrong with using the word 'queer' - unless cakes themselves can now object to being called that ;-).
I think the distinction between refusing to serve a gay customer and refusing to promote a gay message is interesting. Not sure how the law stands in that respect.
But I find these political issues cheapened a bit when they're brought into the public consciousness by attention seekers actively searching out intolerance to serve their own agenda.
Perhaps best not to make assumptions about what the cake was for.
It was for a anti homophobia event held by The Lord Mayor of North Down.
The cake was eventually made by a bakery in Bangor. Although I don't know why this thread talks about it being a Belfast bakery when other news reports say it was Newtownabbey the bakery was in which is outside of Belfast, Newtownabbey is not exactly known for it's tolerance to modern day life.
I think the distinction between refusing to serve a gay customer and refusing to promote a gay message is interesting. Not sure how the law stands in that respect.
But I find these political issues cheapened a bit when they're brought into the public consciousness by attention seekers actively searching out intolerance to serve their own agenda.
We don't know if the customer was aware it was a Christian bakery and if it was that they would refuse to serve given it would be illegal.
Even if it is a case of seeking out prejudice, isn't it better it is highlighted rather than nobody knowing they would discriminate
We don't know if the customer was aware it was a Christian bakery and if it was that they would refuse to serve given it would be illegal.
Even if it is a case of seeking out prejudice, isn't it better it is highlighted rather than nobody knowing they would discriminate
But they took the order and then cleared it with head office because of what was being asked, if it a case of turning the customer down because they were gay why bother taking the order at all?
If a black man went into the baker and asked to put a message on a cake saying "support fenmale circumcision" and was refused ,does that make the baker racist?
No, but going by some peoples responses on this thread the answer will be yes.
Why should he? He went to a bakery to ask for it to be done. That's what it is there for. Just as I would go to a garage to get my car fixed, not ask some 'gay mates' to do it.
No he didn't. Lets not be so naive here. The guy deliberately targeted a Christian coffee shop who as head of a gay rights movement he would have known would stir up trouble and then asked them to put writing on the cake which he knew would deliberately cause offence to them all so he cause prove a point.
It really wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't actually any need for the cake at all and it was all done as part of an elaborate set up in order to make an example of the shop owners and to gain publicity.
Unless the customer walked in to the bakery and made it clear that he was gay, there's no discrimination on the grounds of sexuality, and even if he did, he can't claim it. Had he asked for a cake with a picture of two men on it, a big phallus, and the slogan "suck my cock", would your views be the same?
The logo which he asked to have put on the cake was that of a political pressure group which campaigns for something which is currently illegal in Northern Ireland. The bakery is under no legal obligation to promote political and or illegal activity.
Welcome to the world as run by homosexuals, where they get everything they want at the expense of everyone else.
In what way is it at the expense of everyone else??
It's terrible how rights to be prejudiced and unlawfully discriminate have been eroded over the years.
No he didn't. Lets not be so naive here. The guy deliberately targeted a Christian coffee shop who as head of a gay rights movement he would have known would stir up trouble and then asked them to put writing on the cake which he knew would deliberately cause offence to them all so he cause prove a point.
It really wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't actually any need for the cake at all and it was all done as part of an elaborate set up in order to make an example of the shop owners and to gain publicity.
Whilst I do think there is something slightly strange about ordering the cake from the Newtownabbey shop and then going to a Bangor bakers when the first shop said no because the two places are very far apart. The cake was most definitely for a real event.
No he didn't. Lets not be so naive here. The guy deliberately targeted a Christian coffee shop who as head of a gay rights movement he would have known would stir up trouble and then asked them to put writing on the cake which he knew would deliberately cause offence to them all so he cause prove a point.
It really wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't actually any need for the cake at all and it was all done as part of an elaborate set up in order to make an example of the shop owners and to gain publicity.
No, we don't know that's the case at all. You are just wanting it to be so to try and defend the act of discrimination. The fact remains that the law was possibly broken and prejudice occurred. It does not matter how much 'but it was deliberate' there was, the bakery are still wrong.
Comments
The customer was being awkward. Why not get some gay friends to bake the cake instead?
Yes, it is. That also means the right to be free from unfair discrimination.
A black person could in that case not "pursue" their "black lifestyle" by 'whiting up'. Of course they'd still be black underneath, a bit like the way a gay person even if they were celibate and ignored their true feelings they'd still be gay. You can't avoid or stop these things.
We have no idea whether the customer was "innocent" or not.
Perhaps they wanted a professionally baked cake from a shop made to order.
Why should he? He went to a bakery to ask for it to be done. That's what it is there for. Just as I would go to a garage to get my car fixed, not ask some 'gay mates' to do it.
Perhaps best not to make assumptions about what the cake was for.
I agree. Quite clearly he set out to create a fight and get his five minutes of fame in the tabloids. I wonder how many cake orders he had accepted before he found this one bakery who refused him?
And as the activist customer represents an organisation called Queerspace I see nothing wrong with using the word 'queer' - unless cakes themselves can now object to being called that ;-).
But I find these political issues cheapened a bit when they're brought into the public consciousness by attention seekers actively searching out intolerance to serve their own agenda.
It was for a anti homophobia event held by The Lord Mayor of North Down.
The cake was eventually made by a bakery in Bangor. Although I don't know why this thread talks about it being a Belfast bakery when other news reports say it was Newtownabbey the bakery was in which is outside of Belfast, Newtownabbey is not exactly known for it's tolerance to modern day life.
Turning down business for such a pathetic reason. It is idiots like these using fictitious religious bullsh!t that are holding society back!
I see it as they were trying to make a political message.
If they had.asked for UVF/ IRA message on the cake it would have been.refused also.
Do the bakers do this or are they producing counterfeit goods?
We don't know if the customer was aware it was a Christian bakery and if it was that they would refuse to serve given it would be illegal.
Even if it is a case of seeking out prejudice, isn't it better it is highlighted rather than nobody knowing they would discriminate
Deja vu!
Look at the Equality Act 2010.
No, but going by some peoples responses on this thread the answer will be yes.
No he didn't. Lets not be so naive here. The guy deliberately targeted a Christian coffee shop who as head of a gay rights movement he would have known would stir up trouble and then asked them to put writing on the cake which he knew would deliberately cause offence to them all so he cause prove a point.
It really wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't actually any need for the cake at all and it was all done as part of an elaborate set up in order to make an example of the shop owners and to gain publicity.
In what way is it at the expense of everyone else??
It's terrible how rights to be prejudiced and unlawfully discriminate have been eroded over the years.
No, we don't know that's the case at all. You are just wanting it to be so to try and defend the act of discrimination. The fact remains that the law was possibly broken and prejudice occurred. It does not matter how much 'but it was deliberate' there was, the bakery are still wrong.