You have got it wrong; that was about what happens if you're in lane one and the motorway narrows to two lanes, you then have to hop over to the next lane sharpishly.
Given that such a narrowing is signed well in advance, you only have to do it 'sharpishly' if you weren't paying attention.
What riles me is people doing 40mph on 60mph roads...you catch up with them as you are driving posivitely and to the speed limit - you both get to a 30mph stretch, you drop to 30mph they carry on through at 40mph and by the time you get out of the stretch they are too far ahead again to overtake sensibly because they were breaking the speed limit in a 30mph zone...
That happens all the time on a stretch of road where my mate lives and it drives me mad. It's a 40 speed limit, which goes up to 60, down to 30 and then back up to 40. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been behind a car who is doing around 37-38 and sticks to that for the entire length of the route, despite there being several speed limit changes. It does amaze me how many people see a national speed limit sign and don't have a clue what that means so hedge their bets at around 40
You have got it wrong; that was about what happens if you're in lane one and the motorway narrows to two lanes, you then have to hop over to the next lane sharpishly.
Getting from lane 2 onwards, into lane 1 for your exit, isn't made easier by the queue of HGVs you sometimes get in lane one which seem practically bumper-to-bumper: it can be a struggle to find any sort of gap, no matter how big.
There's plenty of warning when a motorway narrows, if you find yourself having to suddenly swerve into the next lane I'm pretty sure that would come under driving without due care and attention or careless driving.
Exit markers are placed 1 mile before the slip road, that should be plenty of time to move over, even from the outside lane in busy traffic. If the road is extremely busy then you plan to move over earlier, again these are simple judgement calls you make according to the road/traffic conditions - read the road ahead and act accordingly.
There's plenty of warning when a motorway narrows, if you find yourself having to suddenly swerve into the next lane I'm pretty sure that would come under driving without due care and attention or careless driving.
Exit markers are placed 1 mile before the slip road, that should be plenty of time to move over, even from the outside lane in busy traffic. If the road is extremely busy then you plan to move over earlier, again these are simple judgement calls you make according to the road/traffic conditions - read the road ahead and act accordingly.
its quite unbelievable that some people think that road signs can be ignored. Out road network is changing daily and any road sign which may not be applicable to an individual driver on one journey could be applicable on the next. Direction signs not only indicate which turning to take off, but they can also indicate which lane you should be in.
It is also quite unbelievable that some on this thread are prepared to admit that they are lazy drivers.
What riles me is people doing 40mph on 60mph roads...you catch up with them as you are driving posivitely and to the speed limit - you both get to a 30mph stretch, you drop to 30mph they carry on through at 40mph and by the time you get out of the stretch they are too far ahead again to overtake sensibly because they were breaking the speed limit in a 30mph zone...
I see this EVERY DAY on a 70mph road by me. Up the hill at 30mph, the road then opens out to countryside for 1.2 miles, at 70mph, then enters the village at 30mph.
I get stuck behind people doing 40mph on the 70mph bit, then they continue along the 30mph bit into the village, still at 40mph.
I do wonder if some drivers actually know what the white circular sign with a black stripe diagonally across it from right to left means.
Heh, I know what you mean about the 40mph brigade. It doesn't matter whether the speed limit is 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 or 70mph, they still do 40mph!
My ex used to have to drive through a village to get to his house. He slowed down to exactly 30 mph to drive through the village, sticking to the speed limit.
All the aggressive Land Rover drivers who think they own the countryside queued up behind him through the village, getting very angry and tailgating. As "better drivers", they felt it was safe for them to drive through the village at 45 mph but were stuck behind this idiot.
Then, as soon as he passed the National Speed Limit sign at the edge of the village, my ex used to speed up from 30 -> 60 in a matter of seconds, leaving all the fuming Land Rover drivers way behind. It was quite hilarious at the time ...:D
I see this EVERY DAY on a 70mph road by me. Up the hill at 30mph, the road then opens out to countryside for 1.2 miles, at 70mph, then enters the village at 30mph.
I get stuck behind people doing 40mph on the 70mph bit, then they continue along the 30mph bit into the village, still at 40mph.
I do wonder if some drivers actually know what the white circular sign with a black stripe diagonally across it from right to left means.
The National Speed Limit = 60mph on single carriageways, not 70mph.
For any length of time on motorways. If people want to drive at 80mph, 90mph, 100mph, there is a dedicated OVERTAKING LANE for the purpose of overtaking. So use the bleedin' thing!
And don't expect those doing 70mph (the speed limit) to keep hopping into the slow lane behind lorries doing 25mph, and then having to negotiate their way back into the middle lane 30 seconds later.
I can't understand all those people, like Bill Turnbull just on Room 101, complaining about people driving at 70 feeling comfortable and safe in the middle lane, not having to weave in and out. If he likes weaving in and out and exceeding te speed limit, why not use the OVERTAKING lane.
But yet again not one of the "bright people" on the show mentioned this.
There are so many stupid drivers who believe this! Have you never read the highway code:
5. Lane discipline (264 to 266)
"264
You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs.
Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9 & 16(1)(a), MT(S)R regs 4, 8 & 14(1)(a), and RTA 1988, sects 35 & 186, as amended by TMA 2004 sect 6"
In other words KEEP TO THE LEFT! Only change lane if you are overtaking or instructed by signs or the police. There is no such thing as a middle lane, it is an overtaking lane, and you should return to the left hand lane as soon as it is safe to do so.
If everyone stuck to these rules the M25 wouldn't be such a car park!!!
its quite unbelievable that some people think that road signs can be ignored. Out road network is changing daily
It is also quite unbelievable that some on this thread are prepared to admit that they are lazy drivers.
And even if it does not change looking at road signs enables one to assess what the road up ahead might be like giving a visual clue as to whether the traffic may be slowing up etc.
Some people think lane change decisions are somehting difficult to do; they aren't as being able see half a mile up and down the motorway gives ample time to work out what the traffic will be like around you in 30seconds to a minutes time giving plenty of time to work out when to move out...but that takes thought and making decisions...for some sitting in the middle lane at 65mph removes all need to think about driving.
I did the same 20miles motorway journey for 3 years and looked at all the road signs everyday to ensure I knew which junctions were approaching as I knew some of them were bottlenecks - I never just drove along oblivious because I knew I would be turning off after a few junctions.
and then having to negotiate their way back into the middle lane 30 seconds later.
30 seconds is a fair amount of time on the motorway when things are travelling at 70 mph.
And it really isn't a big deal going across one lane of traffic you don't even need to move your steerring wheel much at all...it really is no effort...
What is more dangerous is people using correct lane discipline having to go across 2 lanes of traffic to pass a middle-lane hogger and then back to lane 1 - that does take more of steering wheel turn to minimise your time in moving around.
A good driver really doesn't bother about 'oooo, I'll have to pull out again in 30seconds - I'll stay in this lane'. A good driver just does it automatically because it really isn't much of an issue to change one lane.
And even if it does not change looking at road signs enables one to assess what the road up ahead might be like giving a visual clue as to whether the traffic may be slowing up etc.
Some people think lane change decisions are somehting difficult to do; they aren't as being able see half a mile up and down the motorway gives ample time to work out what the traffic will be like around you in 30seconds to a minutes time giving plenty of time to work out when to move out...but that takes thought and making decisions...for some sitting in the middle lane at 65mph removes all need to think about driving.
I did the same 20miles motorway journey for 3 years and looked at all the road signs everyday to ensure I knew which junctions were approaching as I knew some of them were bottlenecks - I never just drove along oblivious because I knew I would be turning off after a few junctions.
Very true. On the M1, junctions 15, 21 and 24/25 often have bottle necks due to people queuing to come off the motorway. Being aware of which junction is coming up allows you to prepare of a potential slow down of traffic
Why is it common practice to call the inside lane of a motorway (i.e. lane 3) the outside lane? And visa versa for lane 1?
The worst middle lane drivers are the ones who are very keen to overtake when you are in lane 1 but when you pull out (say to avoid being boxed in behind a lorry) they wont pull out into lane 3 and continue to overtake. I see these a lot here in Cumbria (where the M6 is wondefully clear 95% of the time, its great). They seem transfixed by the middle lane. And that there are people on here who think that middle lane hogging is OK is absolutely disgusting.
Correct. But it's not 70mph as you claimed, which is the whole point!!
You stated, "I do wonder if some drivers actually know what the white circular sign with a black stripe diagonally across it from right to left means" yet in the same post wrote, "I see this EVERY DAY on a 70mph road by me. Up the hill at 30mph, the road then opens out to countryside for 1.2 miles, at 70mph, then enters the village at 30mph.
I get stuck behind people doing 40mph on the 70mph bit, then they continue along the 30mph bit into the village, still at 40mph"
So do YOU know what a NSL sign means?
Unless it's a dual-carriageway, the road has a 60mph limit in which case you're equally at fault as much as the person who doesn't moderate their speed.
Correct. But it's not 70mph as you claimed, which is the whole point!!
You stated, "I do wonder if some drivers actually know what the white circular sign with a black stripe diagonally across it from right to left means" yet in the same post wrote, "I see this EVERY DAY on a 70mph road by me. Up the hill at 30mph, the road then opens out to countryside for 1.2 miles, at 70mph, then enters the village at 30mph.
I get stuck behind people doing 40mph on the 70mph bit, then they continue along the 30mph bit into the village, still at 40mph"
So do YOU know what a NSL sign means?
Unless it's a dual-carriageway, the road has a 60mph limit in which case you're equally at fault as much as the person who doesn't moderate their speed.
Yes, I know what the NSL sign means. It means "national speed limit applies".
That's not 70mph, but its not 40mph either.
I'll try this evening to see if I can get to 70mph along it's 1.2 mile stretch.
In other words KEEP TO THE LEFT! Only change lane if you are overtaking or instructed by signs or the police. There is no such thing as a middle lane, it is an overtaking lane, and you should return to the left hand lane as soon as it is safe to do so.
Yet, 134 says (and I already posted this in post #686 or so): 134 ... In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily....
How do you reconconcile this with what you posted above? (Note it says change lanes, it doesn't mention overtaking.)
If everyone stuck to these rules the M25 wouldn't be such a car park!!!
Do you really believe that? I have some trouble, myself, trying to imagine the volume of traffic that can be barely be contained within four lanes, and only just managing 40mph because the gap between vehicles is limited, all simultaneously driving to get back into lane one!
The whole 'stay left' nonsense can not apply when you have heavy traffic. Even your beloved Highway Code says this (you can get to these via the links above):
151 In slow moving traffic, you should ...
not change lanes to the left to overtake
which must surely be suggesting staying in lane 2, 3 or 4!
It also says:
267 [Overtaking on motorways] ... be especially careful at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance.
Wasn't there a whole sub-thread full of people who were adamant that there was absolutely no extra danger involved in changing lanes frequently, compared with staying put? But here the Highway Code itself says that you might sometimes have to take extra care!
Furthermore, it states here:
268...In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
Which must mean that circumstances exist where there are multiple independent lanes of traffic that are not engaged in overtaking. I think those Highway Code zealots who are hung up on the Stay Left rule should go back and read it more carefully, and learn to read between the lines.
Hmm ... so if everyone on the M25 drove in lane 1 and ONLY moved into lane 2 to overtake a truck now and then, the traffic would move more quickly? This would solve all the congestion problems?
In fact, the third and fourth lanes would be completely empty! There would be no need for them at all as everyone would be in lane 1 and pop briefly over to lane 2 once every 30 seconds to overtake a vehicle.
Perhaps lane 3 could be for taxi drivers, or emergency vehicles only? Or we could plant some flowers there instead?.
What an excellent plan - perhaps you should write to the Department of Transport?
Yet, 134 says (and I already posted this in post #686 or so): 134 ... In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily....
How do you reconconcile this with what you posted above? (Note it says change lanes, it doesn't mention overtaking.)
Do you really believe that? I have some trouble, myself, trying to imagine the volume of traffic that can be barely be contained within four lanes, and only just managing 40mph because the gap between vehicles is limited, all simultaneously driving to get back into lane one!
The whole 'stay left' nonsense can not apply when you have heavy traffic. Even your beloved Highway Code says this (you can get to these via the links above):
151 In slow moving traffic, you should ...
not change lanes to the left to overtake
which must surely be suggesting staying in lane 2, 3 or 4!
It also says:
267 [Overtaking on motorways] ... be especially careful at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance.
Wasn't there a whole sub-thread full of people who were adamant that there was absolutely no extra danger involved in changing lanes frequently, compared with staying put? But here the Highway Code itself says that you might sometimes have to take extra care!
Furthermore, it states here:
268...In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
Which must mean that circumstances exist where there are multiple independent lanes of traffic that are not engaged in overtaking. I think those Highway Code zealots who are hung up on the Stay Left rule should go back and read it more carefully, and learn to read between the lines.
Why is it Bart that you appear to be wrong in every argument we have, and in all the threads I have read I have never agreed with you once... (I await a sarky comment back!)
Obviously the rules are different in heavily congested traffic aka a queue where it is best to stay in the lane you are currently in rather than changing lanes, that's a different subject, the question here is why can I not continue to drive at 70 in the middle lane. You would obviously not be driving 70 in heavy congestion.
To answer you about rule 134, it says do not change lanes unnecessarily, overtaking, if safe to do so is a necessary reason to change lanes. They even recommend this in the rule I pointed out earlier.
You have the complete wrong attitude to driving and lack confidence and knowledge by just sticking in the middle lane. When the left hand lane is free why not go back in it and get out of our way so we can overtake you and also enter the left hand lane, that way we can all go the speed we feel comfortable driving.
Staying in the middle lane causes other drivers to change lanes more because of your bad driving. So in your ideal world everyone else would be changing lane more apart from you, or we would all just be stuck in the middle lane going as slow as the slowest driver. Staying to the left and overtaking when necessary allows all drivers to go as fast as they feel comfortable and improves journey times and eases congestion! That's why its in the highway code!
I agree you should be extra careful when changing lanes at night or poor visibility, isn't that just common sense?
Drivers should feel confident to be able to change lanes, if you really feel uneasy about changing lanes then the simplest answer would be for you to stay in the left hand lane and don't overtake while we get on with our lives!
Which must mean that circumstances exist where there are multiple independent lanes of traffic that are not engaged in overtaking. I think those Highway Code zealots who are hung up on the Stay Left rule should go back and read it more carefully, and learn to read between the lines.
You are attacking a strawman. No one is saying that drivers must stay left in all circumstances.
Hmm ... so if everyone on the M25 drove in lane 1 and ONLY moved into lane 2 to overtake a truck now and then, the traffic would move more quickly? This would solve all the congestion problems?
In fact, the third and fourth lanes would be completely empty! There would be no need for them at all as everyone would be in lane 1 and pop briefly over to lane 2 once every 30 seconds to overtake a vehicle.
Perhaps lane 3 could be for taxi drivers, or emergency vehicles only? Or we could plant some flowers there instead?.
What an excellent plan - perhaps you should write to the Department of Transport?
I don't know how much you drive on the M25 but there is a LOT of traffic and loads of vehicles doing different speeds.
For example, a big artic lorry could be doing roughly 50, approaching him is an HGV doing 60, so (s)he safely moves out one lane to overtake. Then you have a driver who is going 65 so (s)he moves out to the third lane to overtake the HGV who is overtaking the artic, then there's another driver doing 70 who again needs to overtake all the driver and so would use the fourth and final lane.
As soon as these vehicles have passed the vehicle they are overtaking they can then go back to the left hand, but what usually happens on the M25 is there's another artic, HGV etc to overtake so some drivers rightly stay out in the lane until they can return to the left hand lane. Sometimes its not possible all through the journey because the amount of congestion, and that is fine because they are constantly using their lane to overtake and are aware of the cars around them.
However, the problem you get is when old Jefferson and Bart here don't feel too confident on motorways and just stick in the middle lane regardless of what's going on. This means that some people have to go way out into the far lane just to legally overtake the moron or it may mean a driver on the left lane is boxed in because the car to his right is not overtaking.
Middle lane hogging is dangerous. Motorway driving is high speed and its pretty obvious that you need to be aware of who's in what lane and going at what speed. Driving in the middle lane at 70 without a care in the world is dangerous and kills lives!
I have driven on the M25 and other busy motorways. I was just trying to highlight the unrealistic image some posters seem to have in their heads when it comes to these motorways.
When they are congested - which is the case for too many motorways down in the south of England - it's more sensible for cars moving at the same speed to remain in the same lanes rather than getting obsessed about keeping as far to the left as possible.
As a result, some drivers might not be able to pootle along in lane 2 at a constant 90 miles an hour. Someone traveling at 70 mph might be in their way! But that's the problem with congestion!
I have driven on the M25 and other busy motorways. I was just trying to highlight the unrealistic image some posters seem to have in their heads when it comes to these motorways.
When they are congested - which is the case for too many motorways down in the south of England - it's more sensible for cars moving at the same speed to remain in the same lanes rather than getting obsessed about keeping as far to the left as possible.
As a result, some drivers might not be able to pootle along in lane 2 at a constant 90 miles an hour. Someone traveling at 70 mph might be in their way! But that's the problem with congestion!
the point is that we have all said that people should be in the left lane when appropriate. No one has ever said the they MUST be in the left unless overtaking. Congestion obviously means that all lanes on the motorway are full so there is little point changing lanes since there will be no space to change in to.
The issues is with drivers who cannot read the road conditions and remain in the central lane when INAPPROPRIATE. And there certainly are some posters on this thread who, it is clear to the rest of use, who cannot read the road conditions and remain in a lane that is a danger to themselves and others.
However, the problem you get is when old Jefferson and Bart here don't feel too confident on motorways and just stick in the middle lane regardless of what's going on. This means that some people have to go way out into the far lane just to legally overtake the moron or it may mean a driver on the left lane is boxed in because the car to his right is not overtaking.
Or worse stick in L3 of a four (or rarely five) lane M25.
Comments
Given that such a narrowing is signed well in advance, you only have to do it 'sharpishly' if you weren't paying attention.
That happens all the time on a stretch of road where my mate lives and it drives me mad. It's a 40 speed limit, which goes up to 60, down to 30 and then back up to 40. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been behind a car who is doing around 37-38 and sticks to that for the entire length of the route, despite there being several speed limit changes. It does amaze me how many people see a national speed limit sign and don't have a clue what that means so hedge their bets at around 40
There's plenty of warning when a motorway narrows, if you find yourself having to suddenly swerve into the next lane I'm pretty sure that would come under driving without due care and attention or careless driving.
Exit markers are placed 1 mile before the slip road, that should be plenty of time to move over, even from the outside lane in busy traffic. If the road is extremely busy then you plan to move over earlier, again these are simple judgement calls you make according to the road/traffic conditions - read the road ahead and act accordingly.
It is also quite unbelievable that some on this thread are prepared to admit that they are lazy drivers.
I see this EVERY DAY on a 70mph road by me. Up the hill at 30mph, the road then opens out to countryside for 1.2 miles, at 70mph, then enters the village at 30mph.
I get stuck behind people doing 40mph on the 70mph bit, then they continue along the 30mph bit into the village, still at 40mph.
I do wonder if some drivers actually know what the white circular sign with a black stripe diagonally across it from right to left means.
My ex used to have to drive through a village to get to his house. He slowed down to exactly 30 mph to drive through the village, sticking to the speed limit.
All the aggressive Land Rover drivers who think they own the countryside queued up behind him through the village, getting very angry and tailgating. As "better drivers", they felt it was safe for them to drive through the village at 45 mph but were stuck behind this idiot.
Then, as soon as he passed the National Speed Limit sign at the edge of the village, my ex used to speed up from 30 -> 60 in a matter of seconds, leaving all the fuming Land Rover drivers way behind. It was quite hilarious at the time ...:D
The National Speed Limit = 60mph on single carriageways, not 70mph.
Lol!! As my kids would say, "PWNED11!!1!!"
There are so many stupid drivers who believe this! Have you never read the highway code:
5. Lane discipline (264 to 266)
"264
You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs.
Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9 & 16(1)(a), MT(S)R regs 4, 8 & 14(1)(a), and RTA 1988, sects 35 & 186, as amended by TMA 2004 sect 6"
https://www.gov.uk/motorways-253-to-273/lane-discipline-264-to-266
In other words KEEP TO THE LEFT! Only change lane if you are overtaking or instructed by signs or the police. There is no such thing as a middle lane, it is an overtaking lane, and you should return to the left hand lane as soon as it is safe to do so.
If everyone stuck to these rules the M25 wouldn't be such a car park!!!
And even if it does not change looking at road signs enables one to assess what the road up ahead might be like giving a visual clue as to whether the traffic may be slowing up etc.
Some people think lane change decisions are somehting difficult to do; they aren't as being able see half a mile up and down the motorway gives ample time to work out what the traffic will be like around you in 30seconds to a minutes time giving plenty of time to work out when to move out...but that takes thought and making decisions...for some sitting in the middle lane at 65mph removes all need to think about driving.
I did the same 20miles motorway journey for 3 years and looked at all the road signs everyday to ensure I knew which junctions were approaching as I knew some of them were bottlenecks - I never just drove along oblivious because I knew I would be turning off after a few junctions.
30 seconds is a fair amount of time on the motorway when things are travelling at 70 mph.
And it really isn't a big deal going across one lane of traffic you don't even need to move your steerring wheel much at all...it really is no effort...
What is more dangerous is people using correct lane discipline having to go across 2 lanes of traffic to pass a middle-lane hogger and then back to lane 1 - that does take more of steering wheel turn to minimise your time in moving around.
A good driver really doesn't bother about 'oooo, I'll have to pull out again in 30seconds - I'll stay in this lane'. A good driver just does it automatically because it really isn't much of an issue to change one lane.
Very true. On the M1, junctions 15, 21 and 24/25 often have bottle necks due to people queuing to come off the motorway. Being aware of which junction is coming up allows you to prepare of a potential slow down of traffic
But it's still not 40mph.
The worst middle lane drivers are the ones who are very keen to overtake when you are in lane 1 but when you pull out (say to avoid being boxed in behind a lorry) they wont pull out into lane 3 and continue to overtake. I see these a lot here in Cumbria (where the M6 is wondefully clear 95% of the time, its great). They seem transfixed by the middle lane. And that there are people on here who think that middle lane hogging is OK is absolutely disgusting.
Correct. But it's not 70mph as you claimed, which is the whole point!!
You stated, "I do wonder if some drivers actually know what the white circular sign with a black stripe diagonally across it from right to left means" yet in the same post wrote, "I see this EVERY DAY on a 70mph road by me. Up the hill at 30mph, the road then opens out to countryside for 1.2 miles, at 70mph, then enters the village at 30mph.
I get stuck behind people doing 40mph on the 70mph bit, then they continue along the 30mph bit into the village, still at 40mph"
So do YOU know what a NSL sign means?
Unless it's a dual-carriageway, the road has a 60mph limit in which case you're equally at fault as much as the person who doesn't moderate their speed.
Yes, I know what the NSL sign means. It means "national speed limit applies".
That's not 70mph, but its not 40mph either.
I'll try this evening to see if I can get to 70mph along it's 1.2 mile stretch.
134 ... In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily....
How do you reconconcile this with what you posted above? (Note it says change lanes, it doesn't mention overtaking.) Do you really believe that? I have some trouble, myself, trying to imagine the volume of traffic that can be barely be contained within four lanes, and only just managing 40mph because the gap between vehicles is limited, all simultaneously driving to get back into lane one!
The whole 'stay left' nonsense can not apply when you have heavy traffic. Even your beloved Highway Code says this (you can get to these via the links above):
151 In slow moving traffic, you should ...
not change lanes to the left to overtake
which must surely be suggesting staying in lane 2, 3 or 4!
It also says:
267 [Overtaking on motorways] ... be especially careful at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance.
Wasn't there a whole sub-thread full of people who were adamant that there was absolutely no extra danger involved in changing lanes frequently, compared with staying put? But here the Highway Code itself says that you might sometimes have to take extra care!
Furthermore, it states here:
268...In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
Which must mean that circumstances exist where there are multiple independent lanes of traffic that are not engaged in overtaking. I think those Highway Code zealots who are hung up on the Stay Left rule should go back and read it more carefully, and learn to read between the lines.
In fact, the third and fourth lanes would be completely empty! There would be no need for them at all as everyone would be in lane 1 and pop briefly over to lane 2 once every 30 seconds to overtake a vehicle.
Perhaps lane 3 could be for taxi drivers, or emergency vehicles only? Or we could plant some flowers there instead?.
What an excellent plan - perhaps you should write to the Department of Transport?
Why is it Bart that you appear to be wrong in every argument we have, and in all the threads I have read I have never agreed with you once... (I await a sarky comment back!)
Obviously the rules are different in heavily congested traffic aka a queue where it is best to stay in the lane you are currently in rather than changing lanes, that's a different subject, the question here is why can I not continue to drive at 70 in the middle lane. You would obviously not be driving 70 in heavy congestion.
To answer you about rule 134, it says do not change lanes unnecessarily, overtaking, if safe to do so is a necessary reason to change lanes. They even recommend this in the rule I pointed out earlier.
You have the complete wrong attitude to driving and lack confidence and knowledge by just sticking in the middle lane. When the left hand lane is free why not go back in it and get out of our way so we can overtake you and also enter the left hand lane, that way we can all go the speed we feel comfortable driving.
Staying in the middle lane causes other drivers to change lanes more because of your bad driving. So in your ideal world everyone else would be changing lane more apart from you, or we would all just be stuck in the middle lane going as slow as the slowest driver. Staying to the left and overtaking when necessary allows all drivers to go as fast as they feel comfortable and improves journey times and eases congestion! That's why its in the highway code!
I agree you should be extra careful when changing lanes at night or poor visibility, isn't that just common sense?
Drivers should feel confident to be able to change lanes, if you really feel uneasy about changing lanes then the simplest answer would be for you to stay in the left hand lane and don't overtake while we get on with our lives!
You are attacking a strawman. No one is saying that drivers must stay left in all circumstances.
I don't know how much you drive on the M25 but there is a LOT of traffic and loads of vehicles doing different speeds.
For example, a big artic lorry could be doing roughly 50, approaching him is an HGV doing 60, so (s)he safely moves out one lane to overtake. Then you have a driver who is going 65 so (s)he moves out to the third lane to overtake the HGV who is overtaking the artic, then there's another driver doing 70 who again needs to overtake all the driver and so would use the fourth and final lane.
As soon as these vehicles have passed the vehicle they are overtaking they can then go back to the left hand, but what usually happens on the M25 is there's another artic, HGV etc to overtake so some drivers rightly stay out in the lane until they can return to the left hand lane. Sometimes its not possible all through the journey because the amount of congestion, and that is fine because they are constantly using their lane to overtake and are aware of the cars around them.
However, the problem you get is when old Jefferson and Bart here don't feel too confident on motorways and just stick in the middle lane regardless of what's going on. This means that some people have to go way out into the far lane just to legally overtake the moron or it may mean a driver on the left lane is boxed in because the car to his right is not overtaking.
Middle lane hogging is dangerous. Motorway driving is high speed and its pretty obvious that you need to be aware of who's in what lane and going at what speed. Driving in the middle lane at 70 without a care in the world is dangerous and kills lives!
I have driven on the M25 and other busy motorways. I was just trying to highlight the unrealistic image some posters seem to have in their heads when it comes to these motorways.
When they are congested - which is the case for too many motorways down in the south of England - it's more sensible for cars moving at the same speed to remain in the same lanes rather than getting obsessed about keeping as far to the left as possible.
As a result, some drivers might not be able to pootle along in lane 2 at a constant 90 miles an hour. Someone traveling at 70 mph might be in their way! But that's the problem with congestion!
There is no such thing as THE overtaking lane on a three lane motorway as there are TWO overtaking lanes. Simples
The issues is with drivers who cannot read the road conditions and remain in the central lane when INAPPROPRIATE. And there certainly are some posters on this thread who, it is clear to the rest of use, who cannot read the road conditions and remain in a lane that is a danger to themselves and others.