As has been mentioned a couple of times, it has a sophisticated radar system if it is connected to it's command and control system. But the launcher can be operated independently without the command system, in which case it only has basic radar.
The 9S35 Fire Dome tracking and illumination radar first emerged as part of the transitional 2K12M3/M4 Kub M4 / SA-6 Gainful, carried by the semi-autonomous 2P25MZ TELAR. The intent behind the design was to permit a larger number of concurrent engagements, by putting a track/illuminate radar on to every single TEL in the SA-6 battery to support engagements using the 3M9M3/9M9M3 SAM round. With the advent of the new 9K37 Buk / SA-11 Gadfly, the 9S35 was adapted for the new 9A38 TELAR and associated 9M38 SAM rounds. The 9S35 is mounted on the front of the TELAR turret, the aft section containing the elevating launch rails for four SAM rounds
The pics and links jzee found clearly show the the M1/TELAR versions with integral radar and computerised fire control systems. Individual M1s can be linked to a control post and seperate radar systems but are designed to be stand-alone air defence vehicles.
The rebels Twitter feed also recently boasted about capturing the system from the Ukrainian military, a tweet they have now deleted, so it's probable it wasn't handed over by anyone in the Russian military.
Agreed. There may also be questions about just how they were 'captured'. As jzee pointed out, why didn't the Ukrainians destroy them to prevent capture, either by air/artillery? Or, if they were guarded by loyal Ukrainians, is usually SOP to destroy kit like that to prevent it falling into enemy hands.
Makes me feel uneasy that people are allowed to go through the wreckage taking photos of bodies and moving things around to set up a photo. I can't imagine what it must feel like knowing your relative is out there, I would want someone from my own country who I can trust out there ASAP.
Quite apart from the fact there will be a whole load of toxins, chemical & biological around the crash site, people who go through these sites usually wear protective suits & masks.
The 9S35 Fire Dome tracking and illumination radar first emerged as part of the transitional 2K12M3/M4 Kub M4 / SA-6 Gainful, carried by the semi-autonomous 2P25MZ TELAR. The intent behind the design was to permit a larger number of concurrent engagements, by putting a track/illuminate radar on to every single TEL in the SA-6 battery to support engagements using the 3M9M3/9M9M3 SAM round. With the advent of the new 9K37 Buk / SA-11 Gadfly, the 9S35 was adapted for the new 9A38 TELAR and associated 9M38 SAM rounds. The 9S35 is mounted on the front of the TELAR turret, the aft section containing the elevating launch rails for four SAM rounds
The pics and links jzee found clearly show the the M1/TELAR versions with integral radar and computerised fire control systems. Individual M1s can be linked to a control post and seperate radar systems but are designed to be stand-alone air defence vehicles.
Then the so called experts on BBC and other news channels are the ones that are wrong, as they have been saying much the same.
Because MH17 and MH370 and Boeing 777. And it was the 17th of the seventh month. But the crunch is that the number of dead (minus the update but we'll ignore it for convenience) is 295 which adds up to 7 when you add just the ones that will it seven. In the right order.
And it seems it was 17 years to the day since that planes first flight.
I wonder how many people were on that flight from Schiphol airport today?
What's the reason they don't know the nationalities of everyone on board? Do all flights not have a passenger list with names and nationalities?
Sky News has said something about 100 children too, that seems such a high number considering 100 were adults going to the AIDS convention. What an absolute waste of a child's life
I feel so uncomfortable with the media splashing photographs of the passports of the two Dutch teenagers (including headshot, age and place of birth) across their websites. I think that's a bridge too far in the" right to report what we see" stakes.
What's the reason they don't know the nationalities of everyone on board? Do all flights not have a passenger list with names and nationalities? Sky News has said something about 100 children too, that seems such a high number considering 100 were adults going to the AIDS convention. What an absolute waste of a child's life
Quite apart from the fact there will be a whole load of toxins, chemical & biological around the crash site, people who go through these sites usually wear protective suits & masks.
And weirdly it's first flight was on the 17th July.
And MH 370 actually departed on 7th March local time.
We should not be making any assumptions at this stage. It may be that the Ukrainian Army are responsible. Or it could have been Russian separatists firing weapons left behind by the Ukrainian army.
But if the Russian military DID hand over this missile system to separatists, it's all to easy to criticise them with hindsight. How could they know they were hotheads? There was no way of knowing this would happen.
As I mentioned, the USA and UK also fund rebels in other countries - what if some of them had accidentally shot down a plane full of civilians?
And bear in mind that the Ukrainian armed forces have apparently lost 2 aircraft this week. An Antonov and a Sukhoi, both Russian makes. The former USSR is probably crawling with Russian hardware - except the Baltic states now in NATO - and remember that the Kiev regime, before the Maidan events, was solidly pro Moscow. Far too early, I would say, to tell who fired one particular shot in a civil war.
What gets my goat in all this is how the actions of one trigger-happy man can cause such devastation and loss of life. Yes, he would have been given orders by his superiors no doubt to open fire in the first place, but to think that one pitiful excuse of a human being could single-handedly create all this tragedy is itself sickening.
Seems like no Americans were on board. Only four unconfirmed. I wonder where the rumours came from that there were 23 us Citizens on board,
I expect todays flight contains the vast majority of those booked on it. People don't tend to change plans even after a disaster like this. My mum and dad travelled on the sister ship to the herald of the free the day after the sinking at Zeebrugge
Then the so called experts on BBC and other news channels are the ones that are wrong, as they have been saying much the same.
This suprises you?
Yesterday the Bbc's defence 'expert' reckoned the launch site could be found from it's UV signature. Normally launches are detected by the IR/heat bloom..
A lot of the time the news relies on wiki or finding someone, any one who'll give'em a quote. What they may have done is just found this-
which is the old SA-6 Kub. That used TELs linked to a seperate radar vehicle (again with IFF capability) and also in the Ukrainian inventory. But the images found and show have been for the SA-11 variant with integrated radar.
Yeah and as there are many Dutch citizens of Indonesian descent, many may been have going via Malaysia to Indonesia to visit relatives. Plus there are many Dutch and Dutch descended people in Australia and New Zealand to visit.
And it seems it was 17 years to the day since that planes first flight.
I wonder how many people were on that flight from Schiphol airport today?
Read under your own risk. It's what [highlight]THEY[/highlight] don't want you to know:
S Club 7 were a band that sang 'Reach for the Stars'.
Stars are usually located in the sky.
Aeroplanes normally fly in the sky.
S is the 19th letter, K is the 11th letter and Y is the 25th letter. Add them up you get 55.
5*5 is... 25.
2+5 is... you guessed it... 7!
The 9/11 connection ladies and gentlemen:
9/11. 9-1-1=7. WTC7 fell on that day... which fell on a 'Tuesday'. Tuesday has seven characters. For calendar fans, Tuesday is a member of something called 'the week' which consists of seven constituent days.
Suspiciously one day for every day of the week.
MA17 was shot down during a week.
'Numerology is a bunch of bollocks.' would have 34 characters on Twitter.
3+4=7.
But wait? There are 106 characters left.
1+0+6=7.
'Twitter' has seven characters.
Seems like no Americans were on board. Only four unconfirmed. I wonder where the rumours came from that there were 23 us Citizens on board,
I expect todays flight contains the vast majority of those booked on it. People don't tend to change plans even after a disaster like this. My mum and dad travelled on the sister ship to the herald of the free the day after the sinking at Zeebrugge
It's odd there were no Americans at all - as it's possible people would connect in Amsterdam via Delta who are KLM code share partners.
I would have thought today's flight would be as safe as anything with no chances - but Malaysian airlines are apparently offering full refunds to anyone with flights booked with them until Christmas!
Today's flight MH17 has taken a circuitous route across Germany, Czech, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, southern Black Sea coastline, NE Turkey, all over the place really and quite twisty for an airliner. flightradar24.com.
Looks like they are carefully avoiding all possible war zones including Syria and Iraq. I can't see how they can avoid Afghanistan though.
Ukraine east of Kiev is totally devoid of aircraft today.
As I noted, if there was only a localised explosion from a missile that took out the plane most passengers would fall out separately from the aircraft given its rapid descent and break up and likely fact that passengers had no reason to be strapped in.
Assuming it was an SA-11, then it's radar guided with a 70kg fragmentation warhead. So missile aims at the largest radar return and a proximity fuze detonates it around 15m from the target. Largest return was probably where the wing joins the body so the effect is like a shotgun from hell and very nasty. Lots of holes in the aircraft and massive damage to systems, flight controls and surfaces, rapid depressurisation etc. Some warheads include incendiary framents to try and ignite fuel but I don't think that's a feature of the SA-11.
This will aid the investigation because - grim as it is - any even minor injuries to them will reveal things about the way they and the plane fell from 33,000 feet. The black box may have lost vital info at the point of any air strike.
Yup, the wings and fuselage should show fragmentation damage and help determine if any explosion was internal or external, or contact/proximity hit. Things like seats, luggage and sadly the bodies may contain fragments from the warhead or explosive.
What's the reason they don't know the nationalities of everyone on board? Do all flights not have a passenger list with names and nationalities?
Sky News has said something about 100 children too, that seems such a high number considering 100 were adults going to the AIDS convention. What an absolute waste of a child's life
I am travelling to Kuala Lumpur in the autumn - my airline requires full address and passport details before you can check in. It's pretty standard practice now for long haul.
The first fatal crash involving a 777 was on the 6/7/13, Asiana Airlines Flight 214 (add those up). Plane was registered HL7742. 3 of the 307 on board were killed.
(Disclaimer: Don't make the mistake of thinking I believe there's anything at all in this. We could do the same about any subject or this subject with any number.)
It's odd there were no Americans at all - as it's possible people would connect in Amsterdam via Delta who are KLM code share partners.
I would have thought today's flight would be as safe as anything with no chances - but Malaysian airlines are apparently offering full refunds to anyone with flights booked with them until Christmas!
That's them financially finished then if everyone cancels. Flights to Australia just about to get a fair bit more expensive.
Comments
Wrong. Read either the wiki article or this-
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Engagement-Fire-Control.html#mozTocId926428
The 9S35 Fire Dome tracking and illumination radar first emerged as part of the transitional 2K12M3/M4 Kub M4 / SA-6 Gainful, carried by the semi-autonomous 2P25MZ TELAR. The intent behind the design was to permit a larger number of concurrent engagements, by putting a track/illuminate radar on to every single TEL in the SA-6 battery to support engagements using the 3M9M3/9M9M3 SAM round. With the advent of the new 9K37 Buk / SA-11 Gadfly, the 9S35 was adapted for the new 9A38 TELAR and associated 9M38 SAM rounds. The 9S35 is mounted on the front of the TELAR turret, the aft section containing the elevating launch rails for four SAM rounds
The pics and links jzee found clearly show the the M1/TELAR versions with integral radar and computerised fire control systems. Individual M1s can be linked to a control post and seperate radar systems but are designed to be stand-alone air defence vehicles.
Agreed. There may also be questions about just how they were 'captured'. As jzee pointed out, why didn't the Ukrainians destroy them to prevent capture, either by air/artillery? Or, if they were guarded by loyal Ukrainians, is usually SOP to destroy kit like that to prevent it falling into enemy hands.
And weirdly it's first flight was on the 17th July.
And it seems it was 17 years to the day since that planes first flight.
I wonder how many people were on that flight from Schiphol airport today?
Now that one is a quirky little coincidence!
Sky News has said something about 100 children too, that seems such a high number considering 100 were adults going to the AIDS convention. What an absolute waste of a child's life
What, the missile was forced into the operators hands and he fired at gunpoint?
I'm sure I have seen someone put that the TWA flight that got shot down was on the 17th July as well.
And MH 370 actually departed on 7th March local time.
And bear in mind that the Ukrainian armed forces have apparently lost 2 aircraft this week. An Antonov and a Sukhoi, both Russian makes. The former USSR is probably crawling with Russian hardware - except the Baltic states now in NATO - and remember that the Kiev regime, before the Maidan events, was solidly pro Moscow. Far too early, I would say, to tell who fired one particular shot in a civil war.
I expect todays flight contains the vast majority of those booked on it. People don't tend to change plans even after a disaster like this. My mum and dad travelled on the sister ship to the herald of the free the day after the sinking at Zeebrugge
This suprises you?
Yesterday the Bbc's defence 'expert' reckoned the launch site could be found from it's UV signature. Normally launches are detected by the IR/heat bloom..
A lot of the time the news relies on wiki or finding someone, any one who'll give'em a quote. What they may have done is just found this-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-6
which is the old SA-6 Kub. That used TELs linked to a seperate radar vehicle (again with IFF capability) and also in the Ukrainian inventory. But the images found and show have been for the SA-11 variant with integrated radar.
Read under your own risk. It's what [highlight]THEY[/highlight] don't want you to know:
S Club 7 were a band that sang 'Reach for the Stars'.
Stars are usually located in the sky.
Aeroplanes normally fly in the sky.
S is the 19th letter, K is the 11th letter and Y is the 25th letter. Add them up you get 55.
5*5 is... 25.
2+5 is... you guessed it... 7!
The 9/11 connection ladies and gentlemen:
9/11. 9-1-1=7. WTC7 fell on that day... which fell on a 'Tuesday'. Tuesday has seven characters. For calendar fans, Tuesday is a member of something called 'the week' which consists of seven constituent days.
Suspiciously one day for every day of the week.
MA17 was shot down during a week.
'Numerology is a bunch of bollocks.' would have 34 characters on Twitter.
3+4=7.
But wait? There are 106 characters left.
1+0+6=7.
'Twitter' has seven characters.
Definite smoking gun...
...has 18 characters. 8-1=7...
It's odd there were no Americans at all - as it's possible people would connect in Amsterdam via Delta who are KLM code share partners.
I would have thought today's flight would be as safe as anything with no chances - but Malaysian airlines are apparently offering full refunds to anyone with flights booked with them until Christmas!
Looks like they are carefully avoiding all possible war zones including Syria and Iraq. I can't see how they can avoid Afghanistan though.
Ukraine east of Kiev is totally devoid of aircraft today.
Assuming it was an SA-11, then it's radar guided with a 70kg fragmentation warhead. So missile aims at the largest radar return and a proximity fuze detonates it around 15m from the target. Largest return was probably where the wing joins the body so the effect is like a shotgun from hell and very nasty. Lots of holes in the aircraft and massive damage to systems, flight controls and surfaces, rapid depressurisation etc. Some warheads include incendiary framents to try and ignite fuel but I don't think that's a feature of the SA-11.
Yup, the wings and fuselage should show fragmentation damage and help determine if any explosion was internal or external, or contact/proximity hit. Things like seats, luggage and sadly the bodies may contain fragments from the warhead or explosive.
I am travelling to Kuala Lumpur in the autumn - my airline requires full address and passport details before you can check in. It's pretty standard practice now for long haul.
The Boeing 777 was introduced on June 7th 1995.
The first fatal crash involving a 777 was on the 6/7/13, Asiana Airlines Flight 214 (add those up). Plane was registered HL7742. 3 of the 307 on board were killed.
(Disclaimer: Don't make the mistake of thinking I believe there's anything at all in this. We could do the same about any subject or this subject with any number.)