The writers and producers need to give LG/CC more to work with. Despite the draw, I don't feel like they give her enough screen time or even screen time with DM/MC to really get into the matter. It's all been just quick glimpses that give us bites to chew on these boards. We need just a little tiny bit more detail than what they've given us on the surface.
I agree with you. Louisa is the most misunderstood character in the show. We don't see much exposition with her so her motivations and the meanings of her words all seem up for debate. It seems like there are as many interpretations of her intentions as there are people to interpret them! She is an enigma and I've given up trying to make complete sense of the character.
Martin became a very different character when he was in surgery with Louisa's mother, then Louisa or even exposed to it as he was in his visit to Robert in London. His tone softens, he becomes focused and in command. When he treats his GP patients he snarls, hurries them through and is not tolerant. If he does return to surgery, this could -- as mmDerdekea points out -- make him happy.
How would a happy Martin affect Louisa? In their romance trajectory, she fell in love with S 1 Martin, who while grumpy was still appealing. By S 6 Louisa was fleeing from a deoressed, shut diown Martin, who was dramatically interesting to us but mean to Louisa
S 7 will presumably focus on restoring their marriage. But which Martin will Louisa find? Happy surgeon Martin? Frustrated in Portwenn Martin? Resigned to life as a GP in Portwenn because he loves Louisa Martin? Post therapy Martin who is happy with or without surgery?
IMHO the writers only use Louisa as a foil for Martin's character. He is the focus of the show and Louisa reacts as the writers wish. Her only role is to push the storyline.
Martin became a very different character when he was in surgery with Louisa's mother, then Louisa or even exposed to it as he was in his visit to Robert in London. His tone softens, he becomes focused and in command. When he treats his GP patients he snarls, hurries them through and is not tolerant. If he does return to surgery, this could -- as mmDerdekea points out -- make him happy.
How would a happy Martin affect Louisa? In their romance trajectory, she fell in love with S 1 Martin, who while grumpy was still appealing. By S 6 Louisa was fleeing from a deoressed, shut diown Martin, who was dramatically interesting to us but mean to Louisa
S 7 will presumably focus on restoring their marriage. But which Martin will Louisa find? Happy surgeon Martin? Frustrated in Portwenn Martin? Resigned to life as a GP in Portwenn because he loves Louisa Martin? Post therapy Martin who is happy with or without surgery?
IMHO the writers only use Louisa as a foil for Martin's character. He is the focus of the show and Louisa reacts as the writers wish. Her only role is to push the storyline.
That is an interesting thought, but Louisa "finding a Martin" is really not happening. Louisa is the person who has the ability to determine "which Martin" results as they
hopefully reconcile or maybe not.
I think Louisa will be a huge part of S7......We'll see.
Martin became a very different character when he was in surgery with Louisa's mother, then Louisa or even exposed to it as he was in his visit to Robert in London. His tone softens, he becomes focused and in command. When he treats his GP patients he snarls, hurries them through and is not tolerant. If he does return to surgery, this could -- as mmDerdekea points out -- make him happy.
How would a happy Martin affect Louisa? In their romance trajectory, she fell in love with S 1 Martin, who while grumpy was still appealing. By S 6 Louisa was fleeing from a deoressed, shut diown Martin, who was dramatically interesting to us but mean to Louisa
S 7 will presumably focus on restoring their marriage. But which Martin will Louisa find? Happy surgeon Martin? Frustrated in Portwenn Martin? Resigned to life as a GP in Portwenn because he loves Louisa Martin? Post therapy Martin who is happy with or without surgery?
IMHO the writers only use Louisa as a foil for Martin's character. He is the focus of the show and Louisa reacts as the writers wish. Her only role is to push the storyline.
Agree with you, Bloodphobia; seems like LE isn't even a character any more.
Martin became a very different character when he was in surgery with Louisa's mother, then Louisa or even exposed to it as he was in his visit to Robert in London. His tone softens, he becomes focused and in command. When he treats his GP patients he snarls, hurries them through and is not tolerant. If he does return to surgery, this could -- as mmDerdekea points out -- make him happy.
How would a happy Martin affect Louisa? In their romance trajectory, she fell in love with S 1 Martin, who while grumpy was still appealing. By S 6 Louisa was fleeing from a deoressed, shut diown Martin, who was dramatically interesting to us but mean to Louisa
S 7 will presumably focus on restoring their marriage. But which Martin will Louisa find? Happy surgeon Martin? Frustrated in Portwenn Martin? Resigned to life as a GP in Portwenn because he loves Louisa Martin? Post therapy Martin who is happy with or without surgery?
IMHO the writers only use Louisa as a foil for Martin's character. He is the focus of the show and Louisa reacts as the writers wish. Her only role is to push the storyline.
That is an interesting thought, but Louisa "finding a Martin" is really not happening. Louisa is the person who has the ability to determine "which Martin" results as they
hopefully reconcile or maybe not.
I think Louisa will be a huge part of S7......We'll see.
As I interpret it, the two of you have very different views of the show. Bloodphobia you seem to think that Louisa is there as the writers' pawn to be used in whatever manner they need in order to show us what is going on with Martin. Mofromco I think you believe that the writers created Louisa as a driving force in the story to show us what is going on with Martin.
I think they did a pretty good job in series 6 in creating a fairly balanced perspective of the character. I was much better able to sympathize with her in S6 than I was in S5. There were a few scenes of her reaching out to him - and even sort of blaming herself for his troubles. They jumped the shark a little with her histrionics that led up to her getting hit by the car. While they were shooting they may not have realized that more exposition would be needed to explain her breakdown or whatever it was.
On another subject. The HD quality when broadcasted from my PBS station is incredibly clear. I can see the texture of the costumes and even see his watch face! The costumes are incredibly beautiful and usually made of beautiful material. A lot of Louisa's dresses seem to be silk. Anyway, I'm loving seeing it this clearly. Jenny's necklaces are prettier than I thought. They give a lot of attention to all the details.
The writers and producers need to give LG/CC more to work with. Despite the draw, I don't feel like they give her enough screen time or even screen time with DM/MC to really get into the matter. It's all been just quick glimpses that give us bites to chew on these boards. We need just a little tiny bit more detail than what they've given us on the surface.
Yes, I agree, Lizzie. It would be wonderful if they were clear and consistent on some of these facets of the characters and their relationship.
Martin became a very different character when he was in surgery with Louisa's mother, then Louisa or even exposed to it as he was in his visit to Robert in London. His tone softens, he becomes focused and in command. When he treats his GP patients he snarls, hurries them through and is not tolerant. If he does return to surgery, this could -- as mmDerdekea points out -- make him happy.
I also see a contrast between Martin's behavior to his patients and his behavior towards others he might consider medical professionals (and Louisa, most of the time) and therefore more or less his equals. I think that behavior contrast extends, BTW, to the distinctly different way that he interacts with AR as opposed to AJ. AJ was always chastising or instructing him, he was in later series trying to take care of her -- but he and AR interact more as equals.
So in thinking about this, a remark of Martin Clunes' about his character came to mind. He said that he was nothing like Martin Ellingham, but he did understand him "and his anger." I think that's a significant insight into how MC views his character -- as a man who is angry that he has to be in Port Wenn, that he has lost the career he loved, and has to deal with people he mostly dislikes (thinks are beneath him?) Perhaps it is this anger that comes out when dealing with his patients or other village inhabitants, unless and until his real medical skills are needed in an emergency of some kind.
I think that carrying around anger and resentment must be pretty stressful in itself, and I do wonder whether the realization that he has now trapped himself in an environment that he hates, has some part in the funk he went into. Also, whether Louisa really realizes how much it has cost him to give up on his return to London, and if not, why not? If she does at some level, perhaps she factors this in to his withdrawal from her?
I wonder too if the "pay-off" for the return of the blood phobia is partially that he need no longer regret a conscious choice not to return to surgery, but retreat to the position that it is no longer possible for him -- which would at least allow him not to blame Louisa or his love for Louisa for keeping him in Port Wenn.
At any rate, I hope he finds some way to make peace with the decision to remain in Port Wenn, or that he and Louisa together find some way to help him move his career in a direction that works better for him. Otherwise, I think the decision to stay in PortWenn as a GP will always be a strain on their marriage, consciously or not.
I'm thinking that we have enough info on his horrible childhood - most especially from Mummie-dearest's speeches to him - that that explains why he went into surgery to begin with -- the patients aren't awake!! He gets to be a robot. He didn't need to think or feel emotions. He got immense psychological and social rewards from being robotic, in control and command, no needed interaction w/ people, and etc. His choosing surgery as his medical specialty was the product of his emotional crippling!. It was not a healthy man going into surgery as his profession but as reaction to /coping mechanism to his unhealthy inner state. The hemophobia was bound to happen, or some other psychosomatic event, as he was "operating crippled" if you will. Sorry, I just had to use that phrase... ; ) When he states, "surgery was the only thing I was good at" it's an emotionally crippled man saying that. We, the audience, know that that is SO not true -- he is an excellent GP, an excellent diagnostician, he takes the health and welfare of his community very seriously as he has said over and over again and demonstrated by his actions over and over again - all are attributes of a medical caritas that is/comes naturally to him - despite it not being vascular surgery. Remember AR tells him that she is proud of him for choosing "real medicine" ie. GP in Portwenn. I think one of his "truths" will be to realize that he went into surgery falsely and that staying GP in Portwenn is fine and dandy, even w/ his hemophobia resolved or not, and even w/ his nature grumpy or not.
Falling in love, true romantic love, with Luisa (who is a match for him in many ways/areas of life) and the arrival of JH brought his inner nature (per AR he was an intelligent sensitive little 4 year old) bubbling up and into conflict w the constructed surgeon-robot persona. And thus - the depression and conflict we see in S6. Which I think is brilliant of the writers... at least that's how I'm reading it.
The amazing job the writers now have to confront: how to get DM undepressed while still being a funny show !
I also see a contrast between Martin's behavior to his patients and his behavior towards others he might consider medical professionals (and Louisa, most of the time) and therefore more or less his equals. I think that behavior contrast extends, BTW, to the distinctly different way that he interacts with AR as opposed to AJ. AJ was always chastising or instructing him, he was in later series trying to take care of her -- but he and AR interact more as equals.
So in thinking about this, a remark of Martin Clunes' about his character came to mind. He said that he was nothing like Martin Ellingham, but he did understand him "and his anger." I think that's a significant insight into how MC views his character -- as a man who is angry that he has to be in Port Wenn, that he has lost the career he loved, and has to deal with people he mostly dislikes (thinks are beneath him?) Perhaps it is this anger that comes out when dealing with his patients or other village inhabitants, unless and until his real medical skills are needed in an emergency of some kind.
I think that carrying around anger and resentment must be pretty stressful in itself, and I do wonder whether the realization that he has now trapped himself in an environment that he hates, has some part in the funk he went into. Also, whether Louisa really realizes how much it has cost him to give up on his return to London, and if not, why not? If she does at some level, perhaps she factors this in to his withdrawal from her?
I wonder too if the "pay-off" for the return of the blood phobia is partially that he need no longer regret a conscious choice not to return to surgery, but retreat to the position that it is no longer possible for him -- which would at least allow him not to blame Louisa or his love for Louisa for keeping him in Port Wenn.
At any rate, I hope he finds some way to make peace with the decision to remain in Port Wenn, or that he and Louisa together find some way to help him move his career in a direction that works better for him. Otherwise, I think the decision to stay in PortWenn as a GP will always be a strain on their marriage, consciously or not.
Wow, NewPark, targeting the "anger" makes so much sense to me. And you've enumerated why well. I once heard a mental health worker say something to the effect that depression is anger turned inward. And we have seen that DM certainly has a softer side to him--he is not totally rude and non-caring. But his anger spills out from time to time, sometimes with good reason, sometimes not. But he stuffs a lot of it and probably has since he was a child, given his history. I can't help but think that is why he doesn't understand "happy" as in several of his comments disregarding it.
Which brings up a new question in my mind: Were there scenes where you all feel DM gets justifiably angry and expresses it?
One is when he confronts his parents and then in S6, his mother.
Also, the line about "having a functioning Spencer Wells forceps" sounded angry, or was it more a release of the high pressure he was under, just having gotten hold of the bleed in Peter Cronk's abdomen?
I'm thinking that we have enough info on his horrible childhood - most especially from Mummie-dearest's speeches to him - that that explains why he went into surgery to begin with -- the patients aren't awake!! He gets to be a robot. He didn't need to think or feel emotions. He got immense psychological and social rewards from being robotic, in control and command, no needed interaction w/ people, and etc. His choosing surgery as his medical specialty was the product of his emotional crippling!. It was not a healthy man going into surgery as his profession but as reaction to /coping mechanism to his unhealthy inner state. The hemophobia was bound to happen, or some other psychosomatic event, as he was "operating crippled" if you will. Sorry, I just had to use that phrase... ; ) When he states, "surgery was the only thing I was good at" it's an emotionally crippled man saying that. We, the audience, know that that is SO not true -- he is an excellent GP, an excellent diagnostician, he takes the health and welfare of his community very seriously as he has said over and over again and demonstrated by his actions over and over again - all are attributes of a medical caritas that is/comes naturally to him - despite it not being vascular surgery. Remember AR tells him that she is proud of him for choosing "real medicine" ie. GP in Portwenn. I think one of his "truths" will be to realize that he went into surgery falsely and that staying GP in Portwenn is fine and dandy, even w/ his hemophobia resolved or not, and even w/ his nature grumpy or not.
Falling in love, true romantic love, with Luisa (who is a match for him in many ways/areas of life) and the arrival of JH brought his inner nature (per AR he was an intelligent sensitive little 4 year old) bubbling up and into conflict w the constructed surgeon-robot persona. And thus - the depression and conflict we see in S6. Which I think is brilliant of the writers... at least that's how I'm reading it.
The amazing job the writers now have to confront: how to get DM undepressed while still being a funny show !
That's an interesting theory but surgery isn't really a NPC (we called some specialties no patient contact. Like radiology or pathology). Surgeons spend a bit of time with the patient before and after surgery. Martin showed wonderful ideals and etiquette when he told Adrian Pitts to inform Peter Cronks Mum that he was ok. I just think Martin believed he could help this person and make him or her well. I have the impression that he was no nonsense, but not rude and functioned with an elegant sense of knowing his stuff. I bet he could make the patient feel confident and as relaxed as possible. It was a totally different environment.
What he found intolerable where the Mom said junior had been vomiting and having diarrhea and the 2 year old is munching on a bag of crisps and a Dr. pepper. A good surgeon is an artist and a treasure. I think he was much different in his familiar mileu......being a surgeon.
Wow, NewPark, targeting the "anger" makes so much sense to me. And you've enumerated why well. I once heard a mental health worker say something to the effect that depression is anger turned inward. And we have seen that DM certainly has a softer side to him--he is not totally rude and non-caring. But his anger spills out from time to time, sometimes with good reason, sometimes not. But he stuffs a lot of it and probably has since he was a child, given his history. I can't help but think that is why he doesn't understand "happy" as in several of his comments disregarding it.
Which brings up a new question in my mind: Were there scenes where you all feel DM gets justifiably angry and expresses it?
One is when he confronts his parents and then in S6, his mother.
Also, the line about "having a functioning Spencer Wells forceps" sounded angry, or was it more a release of the high pressure he was under, just having gotten hold of the bleed in Peter Cronk's abdomen?
That Spencer Wells forceps was a plastic piece of crap and he had every right to be angry/frustrated. Another time was when Mrs. Poustie goes into the bathroom and when he asked if she washed her hands and she said "No" he said something like,"For God's sake, do you think there could be a connection?" He had a lot of restraint to not get angry at the....? Sam's parents the night that they interrupted their dinner......he just bolted rather than get truly pissed.
Which brings up a new question in my mind: Were there scenes where you all feel DM gets justifiably angry and expresses it?
One is when he confronts his parents and then in S6, his mother.
Also, the line about "having a functioning Spencer Wells forceps" sounded angry, or was it more a release of the high pressure he was under, just having gotten hold of the bleed in Peter Cronk's abdomen?
He gets pretty angry with Louisa for shifting furniture. He was a little over the top when he mentioned miscarriage, but AJ shooed him away before he said anything else.
He gets pretty angry with Louisa for shifting furniture. He was a little over the top when he mentioned miscarriage, but AJ shooed him away before he said anything else.
True...and she wasn't to bright.....moving furniture while that pregnant.,,,,,Valsalva maneuvers have all types of effects when you are 6 months preggers....
That Spencer Wells forceps was a plastic piece of crap and he had every right to be angry/frustrated. Another time was when Mrs. Poustie goes into the bathroom and when he asked if she washed her hands and she said "No" he said something like,"For God's sake, do you think there could be a connection?" He had a lot of restraint to not get angry at the....? Sam's parents the night that they interrupted their dinner......he just bolted rather than get truly pissed.
Oh, I think the clearest example of DM getting angry is when he calls up Caroline's radio show to yell at PW inhabitants for doubting he is a competent doctor, after Bert did the prank on him, in the Hemophobia episode. He was REALLY mad then, and I feel he had a right to be.
Angry at Aunt Joan for dying
Angry at Aunt Ruth for self-diagnosis of alumnus
Angry with Elaine for ignoring tea and cookies directive
Angry with Pauline over Internet gambling
Angry with Poppy for inexperience
Angry with Roger Fenn for not following course of treatment
Angry with Chris Parsons for posting
Angry with Bert Large for bad plumbing, poor restaurant hygiene, spring water scheme
Angry with Al Large for not reporting living condition in Uganda
Angry with Edith Montgomery for discovering his blood phobia
Angry with Danny Steel for not using filter mask when sanding floor
Angry with almost every patient because of what caused their condition -- eating road kill, using steroids, using tanning bed, not revealing blindness, masking symptoms with alcohol
<<<Angry at Aunt Joan for dying
Angry at Aunt Ruth for self-diagnosis of alumnus
Angry with Elaine for ignoring tea and cookies directive
Angry with Pauline over Internet gambling
Angry with Poppy for inexperience
Angry with Roger Fenn for not following course of treatment
Angry with Chris Parsons for posting
Angry with Bert Large for bad plumbing, poor restaurant hygiene, spring water scheme
Angry with Al Large for not reporting living condition in Uganda
Angry with Edith Montgomery for discovering his blood phobia
Angry with Danny Steel for not using filter mask when sanding floor
Angry with almost every patient because of what caused their condition -- eating road kill, using steroids, using tanning bed, not revealing blindness, masking symptoms with alcohol
I agree with you. Louisa is the most misunderstood character in the show. We don't see much exposition with her so her motivations and the meanings of her words all seem up for debate. It seems like there are as many interpretations of her intentions as there are people to interpret them! She is an enigma and I've given up trying to make complete sense of the character.
I could easily see L being therapeutic to DM in this sense... during marriage counseling session, or afterwards but triggered by the session (and I'm pulling for the Pig Vicar as the counselor), she has occasion to tell DM why she loves him... a list better than "he's moral, he's straight-forward... he's Martin" (we can supply the list to BP if needed, eh?) and this break-through to the wounded little boy Martin will help to heal him so he can be in the marriage in a real sense, and a family man in a real happy sense.
I'm of the opinion that he doesn't need to get over the blood thing, or his surly character, but he does need to become a real husband to Luisa and real fathering to JH. I see this show as Dickensonian: Martin needs to fulfill the role of David Copperfield: "Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show"
I could easily see L being therapeutic to DM in this sense... during marriage counseling session, or afterwards but triggered by the session (and I'm pulling for the Pig Vicar as the counselor), she has occasion to tell DM why she loves him... a list better than "he's moral, he's straight-forward... he's Martin" (we can supply the list to BP if needed, eh?) and this break-through to the wounded little boy Martin will help to heal him so he can be in the marriage in a real sense, and a family man in a real happy sense.
I'm of the opinion that he doesn't need to get over the blood thing, or his surly character, but he does need to become a real husband to Luisa and real fathering to JH. I see this show as Dickensonian: Martin needs to fulfill the role of David Copperfield: "Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show"
Now that you mention it -- Bert Large is pretty Dickensian. Pickwick, perhaps? And Aunt Ruth for Betsy Trott?
Angry at Aunt Joan for dying
Angry at Aunt Ruth for self-diagnosis of alumnus
Angry with Elaine for ignoring tea and cookies directive
Angry with Pauline over Internet gambling
Angry with Poppy for inexperience
Angry with Roger Fenn for not following course of treatment
Angry with Chris Parsons for posting
Angry with Bert Large for bad plumbing, poor restaurant hygiene, spring water scheme
Angry with Al Large for not reporting living condition in Uganda
Angry with Edith Montgomery for discovering his blood phobia
Angry with Danny Steel for not using filter mask when sanding floor
Angry with almost every patient because of what caused their condition -- eating road kill, using steroids, using tanning bed, not revealing blindness, masking symptoms with alcohol
Yeah, he's pretty angry
Wow, I do not see him "angry" at many, if not most, of those situations. Anger is more than just a momentary irritation or frustration, to me. I didn't see him angry at AJ's death at all. He's irritated the hearse is late, he's upset the coffin is dropped, but he sighs deeply in sadness at her home, and returns to LG holding his arm. I don't see "anger". Anger is that phone call to Caroline, when he is screaming into the phone, physically agitated, and it lasts more than just a second or two. And, everyone clears away from Bert and Al at the phone in the pub, instead of just standing there and saying "tosser". He's ANGRY, and people back away.
I don't seem him angry at AR's self-diagnosis; they have that sweet and uncomfy hug, after all, and truly bond at that moment. Or Pauline's gambling. Or with Al for not reporting living conditions. Or with Edith, etc.
Maybe we each have different self-defintion of that intense emotion and define a situation differently as illustrating it or not.
Oh, I think the clearest example of DM getting angry is when he calls up Caroline's radio show to yell at PW inhabitants for doubting he is a competent doctor, after Bert did the prank on him, in the Hemophobia episode. He was REALLY mad then, and I feel he had a right to be.
I don't think he has been that verbal in the latter series. In general he was more conversational in series 1. So maybe he expresses his anger differently in series one than he has done in subsequent series.
Oh, I think the clearest example of DM getting angry is when he calls up Caroline's radio show to yell at PW inhabitants for doubting he is a competent doctor, after Bert did the prank on him, in the Hemophobia episode. He was REALLY mad then, and I feel he had a right to be.
I'd forgotten about that, but that is exactly the kind of justifiable anger I was meaning.
He is so often irritated or frustrated with his patients and others AND even with himself. And the shades that are written into his emotions made me ask the question.
Right now I'm thinking of his going to see the vicar with the hymn list in S3 E7. He seems upset with the vicar for drinking because of his suspicions from his earlier visit in the surgery, but also because he's supposed to be getting married in a few hours and so he wrestles him for the bottle. But I didn't feel DM was truly angry there.
I'd forgotten about that, but that is exactly the kind of justifiable anger I was meaning.
He is so often irritated or frustrated with his patients and others AND even with himself. And the shades that are written into his emotions made me ask the question.
Right now I'm thinking of his going to see the vicar with the hymn list in S3 E7. He seems upset with the vicar for drinking because of his suspicions from his earlier visit in the surgery, but also because he's supposed to be getting married in a few hours and so he wrestles him for the bottle. But I didn't feel DM was truly angry there.
Anyone else have more?
hello everyone. I’m new here (though not to DM. Total fanatic, :cool: currently watching S4 yet again…) and enjoying this discussion about DM’s anger. He has clearly become much less conversational and interactive over time. In S1 he actually engages with people – for instance, Pauline and her father, Peter Cronk. We can hardly imagine him acting that way now.
I’d call his reaction when he figures out what Janet Saul (S3E7) is doing a case of justifiable anger. She is concocting meds in her basement, secretly giving them to her sister instead of the prescribed meds, and causing aspergillosis which spreads through the village.
Now that you mention it -- Bert Large is pretty Dickensian. Pickwick, perhaps? And Aunt Ruth for Betsy Trott?
I find the show, as a whole, very Dickensian indeed. I must confess to not having read Pickwick Papers however so cannot comment if DM is more Pickwick than David.... Can you? Both AJ and AR are Aunt Betsy Trott for sure. But it's more the tone and general nature of the story line and how it is being told that seem Dickensian to me rather than a character to character match-up. A 21st century Dickens-like tale... and it is even episodic the way Dicken's own stories were ! Amazing...
DM not angry? ROFL.....
The DIVO moment of yelling out and about the lack of a forcep is a very classic surgeon moment. Surgeon = divo of the operating room or theater as the Brits call it
Comments
I agree with you. Louisa is the most misunderstood character in the show. We don't see much exposition with her so her motivations and the meanings of her words all seem up for debate. It seems like there are as many interpretations of her intentions as there are people to interpret them! She is an enigma and I've given up trying to make complete sense of the character.
How would a happy Martin affect Louisa? In their romance trajectory, she fell in love with S 1 Martin, who while grumpy was still appealing. By S 6 Louisa was fleeing from a deoressed, shut diown Martin, who was dramatically interesting to us but mean to Louisa
S 7 will presumably focus on restoring their marriage. But which Martin will Louisa find? Happy surgeon Martin? Frustrated in Portwenn Martin? Resigned to life as a GP in Portwenn because he loves Louisa Martin? Post therapy Martin who is happy with or without surgery?
IMHO the writers only use Louisa as a foil for Martin's character. He is the focus of the show and Louisa reacts as the writers wish. Her only role is to push the storyline.
That is an interesting thought, but Louisa "finding a Martin" is really not happening. Louisa is the person who has the ability to determine "which Martin" results as they
hopefully reconcile or maybe not.
I think Louisa will be a huge part of S7......We'll see.
Agree with you, Bloodphobia; seems like LE isn't even a character any more.
As I interpret it, the two of you have very different views of the show. Bloodphobia you seem to think that Louisa is there as the writers' pawn to be used in whatever manner they need in order to show us what is going on with Martin. Mofromco I think you believe that the writers created Louisa as a driving force in the story to show us what is going on with Martin.
I think they did a pretty good job in series 6 in creating a fairly balanced perspective of the character. I was much better able to sympathize with her in S6 than I was in S5. There were a few scenes of her reaching out to him - and even sort of blaming herself for his troubles. They jumped the shark a little with her histrionics that led up to her getting hit by the car. While they were shooting they may not have realized that more exposition would be needed to explain her breakdown or whatever it was.
On another subject. The HD quality when broadcasted from my PBS station is incredibly clear. I can see the texture of the costumes and even see his watch face! The costumes are incredibly beautiful and usually made of beautiful material. A lot of Louisa's dresses seem to be silk. Anyway, I'm loving seeing it this clearly. Jenny's necklaces are prettier than I thought. They give a lot of attention to all the details.
Yes, I agree, Lizzie. It would be wonderful if they were clear and consistent on some of these facets of the characters and their relationship.
I also see a contrast between Martin's behavior to his patients and his behavior towards others he might consider medical professionals (and Louisa, most of the time) and therefore more or less his equals. I think that behavior contrast extends, BTW, to the distinctly different way that he interacts with AR as opposed to AJ. AJ was always chastising or instructing him, he was in later series trying to take care of her -- but he and AR interact more as equals.
So in thinking about this, a remark of Martin Clunes' about his character came to mind. He said that he was nothing like Martin Ellingham, but he did understand him "and his anger." I think that's a significant insight into how MC views his character -- as a man who is angry that he has to be in Port Wenn, that he has lost the career he loved, and has to deal with people he mostly dislikes (thinks are beneath him?) Perhaps it is this anger that comes out when dealing with his patients or other village inhabitants, unless and until his real medical skills are needed in an emergency of some kind.
I think that carrying around anger and resentment must be pretty stressful in itself, and I do wonder whether the realization that he has now trapped himself in an environment that he hates, has some part in the funk he went into. Also, whether Louisa really realizes how much it has cost him to give up on his return to London, and if not, why not? If she does at some level, perhaps she factors this in to his withdrawal from her?
I wonder too if the "pay-off" for the return of the blood phobia is partially that he need no longer regret a conscious choice not to return to surgery, but retreat to the position that it is no longer possible for him -- which would at least allow him not to blame Louisa or his love for Louisa for keeping him in Port Wenn.
At any rate, I hope he finds some way to make peace with the decision to remain in Port Wenn, or that he and Louisa together find some way to help him move his career in a direction that works better for him. Otherwise, I think the decision to stay in PortWenn as a GP will always be a strain on their marriage, consciously or not.
Falling in love, true romantic love, with Luisa (who is a match for him in many ways/areas of life) and the arrival of JH brought his inner nature (per AR he was an intelligent sensitive little 4 year old) bubbling up and into conflict w the constructed surgeon-robot persona. And thus - the depression and conflict we see in S6. Which I think is brilliant of the writers... at least that's how I'm reading it.
The amazing job the writers now have to confront: how to get DM undepressed while still being a funny show !
Wow, NewPark, targeting the "anger" makes so much sense to me. And you've enumerated why well. I once heard a mental health worker say something to the effect that depression is anger turned inward. And we have seen that DM certainly has a softer side to him--he is not totally rude and non-caring. But his anger spills out from time to time, sometimes with good reason, sometimes not. But he stuffs a lot of it and probably has since he was a child, given his history. I can't help but think that is why he doesn't understand "happy" as in several of his comments disregarding it.
Which brings up a new question in my mind: Were there scenes where you all feel DM gets justifiably angry and expresses it?
One is when he confronts his parents and then in S6, his mother.
Also, the line about "having a functioning Spencer Wells forceps" sounded angry, or was it more a release of the high pressure he was under, just having gotten hold of the bleed in Peter Cronk's abdomen?
That's an interesting theory but surgery isn't really a NPC (we called some specialties no patient contact. Like radiology or pathology). Surgeons spend a bit of time with the patient before and after surgery. Martin showed wonderful ideals and etiquette when he told Adrian Pitts to inform Peter Cronks Mum that he was ok. I just think Martin believed he could help this person and make him or her well. I have the impression that he was no nonsense, but not rude and functioned with an elegant sense of knowing his stuff. I bet he could make the patient feel confident and as relaxed as possible. It was a totally different environment.
What he found intolerable where the Mom said junior had been vomiting and having diarrhea and the 2 year old is munching on a bag of crisps and a Dr. pepper. A good surgeon is an artist and a treasure. I think he was much different in his familiar mileu......being a surgeon.
That Spencer Wells forceps was a plastic piece of crap and he had every right to be angry/frustrated. Another time was when Mrs. Poustie goes into the bathroom and when he asked if she washed her hands and she said "No" he said something like,"For God's sake, do you think there could be a connection?" He had a lot of restraint to not get angry at the....? Sam's parents the night that they interrupted their dinner......he just bolted rather than get truly pissed.
He gets pretty angry with Louisa for shifting furniture. He was a little over the top when he mentioned miscarriage, but AJ shooed him away before he said anything else.
True...and she wasn't to bright.....moving furniture while that pregnant.,,,,,Valsalva maneuvers have all types of effects when you are 6 months preggers....
Oh, I think the clearest example of DM getting angry is when he calls up Caroline's radio show to yell at PW inhabitants for doubting he is a competent doctor, after Bert did the prank on him, in the Hemophobia episode. He was REALLY mad then, and I feel he had a right to be.
Angry at Aunt Ruth for self-diagnosis of alumnus
Angry with Elaine for ignoring tea and cookies directive
Angry with Pauline over Internet gambling
Angry with Poppy for inexperience
Angry with Roger Fenn for not following course of treatment
Angry with Chris Parsons for posting
Angry with Bert Large for bad plumbing, poor restaurant hygiene, spring water scheme
Angry with Al Large for not reporting living condition in Uganda
Angry with Edith Montgomery for discovering his blood phobia
Angry with Danny Steel for not using filter mask when sanding floor
Angry with almost every patient because of what caused their condition -- eating road kill, using steroids, using tanning bed, not revealing blindness, masking symptoms with alcohol
Yeah, he's pretty angry
Angry at Aunt Ruth for self-diagnosis of alumnus
Angry with Elaine for ignoring tea and cookies directive
Angry with Pauline over Internet gambling
Angry with Poppy for inexperience
Angry with Roger Fenn for not following course of treatment
Angry with Chris Parsons for posting
Angry with Bert Large for bad plumbing, poor restaurant hygiene, spring water scheme
Angry with Al Large for not reporting living condition in Uganda
Angry with Edith Montgomery for discovering his blood phobia
Angry with Danny Steel for not using filter mask when sanding floor
Angry with almost every patient because of what caused their condition -- eating road kill, using steroids, using tanning bed, not revealing blindness, masking symptoms with alcohol
Yeah, he's pretty angry >>>>>
Yeah, that's why we LOVE him....
I could easily see L being therapeutic to DM in this sense... during marriage counseling session, or afterwards but triggered by the session (and I'm pulling for the Pig Vicar as the counselor), she has occasion to tell DM why she loves him... a list better than "he's moral, he's straight-forward... he's Martin" (we can supply the list to BP if needed, eh?) and this break-through to the wounded little boy Martin will help to heal him so he can be in the marriage in a real sense, and a family man in a real happy sense.
I'm of the opinion that he doesn't need to get over the blood thing, or his surly character, but he does need to become a real husband to Luisa and real fathering to JH. I see this show as Dickensonian: Martin needs to fulfill the role of David Copperfield: "Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show"
Now that you mention it -- Bert Large is pretty Dickensian. Pickwick, perhaps? And Aunt Ruth for Betsy Trott?
Wow, I do not see him "angry" at many, if not most, of those situations. Anger is more than just a momentary irritation or frustration, to me. I didn't see him angry at AJ's death at all. He's irritated the hearse is late, he's upset the coffin is dropped, but he sighs deeply in sadness at her home, and returns to LG holding his arm. I don't see "anger". Anger is that phone call to Caroline, when he is screaming into the phone, physically agitated, and it lasts more than just a second or two. And, everyone clears away from Bert and Al at the phone in the pub, instead of just standing there and saying "tosser". He's ANGRY, and people back away.
I don't seem him angry at AR's self-diagnosis; they have that sweet and uncomfy hug, after all, and truly bond at that moment. Or Pauline's gambling. Or with Al for not reporting living conditions. Or with Edith, etc.
Maybe we each have different self-defintion of that intense emotion and define a situation differently as illustrating it or not.
I don't think he has been that verbal in the latter series. In general he was more conversational in series 1. So maybe he expresses his anger differently in series one than he has done in subsequent series.
I'd forgotten about that, but that is exactly the kind of justifiable anger I was meaning.
He is so often irritated or frustrated with his patients and others AND even with himself. And the shades that are written into his emotions made me ask the question.
Right now I'm thinking of his going to see the vicar with the hymn list in S3 E7. He seems upset with the vicar for drinking because of his suspicions from his earlier visit in the surgery, but also because he's supposed to be getting married in a few hours and so he wrestles him for the bottle. But I didn't feel DM was truly angry there.
Anyone else have more?
hello everyone. I’m new here (though not to DM. Total fanatic, :cool: currently watching S4 yet again…) and enjoying this discussion about DM’s anger. He has clearly become much less conversational and interactive over time. In S1 he actually engages with people – for instance, Pauline and her father, Peter Cronk. We can hardly imagine him acting that way now.
I’d call his reaction when he figures out what Janet Saul (S3E7) is doing a case of justifiable anger. She is concocting meds in her basement, secretly giving them to her sister instead of the prescribed meds, and causing aspergillosis which spreads through the village.
I find the show, as a whole, very Dickensian indeed. I must confess to not having read Pickwick Papers however so cannot comment if DM is more Pickwick than David.... Can you? Both AJ and AR are Aunt Betsy Trott for sure. But it's more the tone and general nature of the story line and how it is being told that seem Dickensian to me rather than a character to character match-up. A 21st century Dickens-like tale... and it is even episodic the way Dicken's own stories were ! Amazing...
DM not angry? ROFL.....
The DIVO moment of yelling out and about the lack of a forcep is a very classic surgeon moment. Surgeon = divo of the operating room or theater as the Brits call it